Seekers, most op class? pvp wise?

Doom_Panda - Harshlands · April 2013

Boomz - Harshlands wrote: »

guys open your eyes, as of right now, barbs are WAAAYYY too over powering. They have infinite chi and infinite immune to movement skills, if you do get one off, they just are back to normal running speed. On top of that they hit full damage in a tank form and have instant turtle. THIS IS A TANK CLASS NOT A DD CLASS! i have 50 defense lvs and 10k p def unbuffed and even G16 barbs rip right though me as a r9 3rd cast armor. Besides barbs, then comes archers who no one ever talks about, but with a +12 r9 weapon are unbeatable and they have stealth and tons of ads and stuns. Also sins should get about a 15% nerf to all damage, then they are fair.

Lol... f:laugh

WTB: INFINITE ANTI-STUN SKILL!

Longknife - Harshlands · April 2013

burningsweetfire wrote: »

Ikr, I played seeker and psy can kill me with little trouble. In the other hand, I have to be careful not to trigger their shields and pay attention when they use physical immunity. In NW, once psy use psy will, if my magic attacks don't zerk crit, I'm dead.

I can't help but feel like people that call seeker's OP focus solely on that point.

I've actually had debates with people before about if Psy is strong vs. Seeker or Seeker is strong vs. Psy. I'll point out that Psy has 20 second physical immunity, a 6 second stun, another variable stun shield, a skill that resists an entire hit, incredible cast time whereas seekers can be rather slow, soul of silence AND white voodoo can be surprisingly effective for if the Seeker is still standing after all that time.

As a counter argument, all I hear is "zerk crit." Huh. Oh-kay.
Tell me, if you have a Seeker fight a Psy 100 times, how many of those fights do you think involve a Seeker hitting a zerk crit, and how many of those do you think involve the Psy just ripping the Seeker apart because he's completely immune while matching the Seeker's defense levels with attack levels?

I've come to find that, for whatever reason....It used to be barbs and sins attracted people with egos who hate losing. There's still plenty, but I'm also noticing plenty of Seekers who have massive egos and can't stand losing. I've tried making a point to a couple that they're weak vs. Psy, and we'll fight a few rounds. The only ones that beat me are r9 3rd +11-12 to my r9 +8, and even then I can win a third or fourth of the time. They'll proudly show off how they win majority of the time, and it's like ok, but don't you think there's a problem when I can win consistently (even if it's just 25-33% of the time) when there's such a giant gear-gap?

It also feels like a lot of people that call Seekers OP call them OP solely because they've been hit with a 200k zerk crit. Ok, that's great and all, but it's not practical. The Seeker has no control over when that happens, he just kinda swings and hopes for one. For all the people calling Seekers OP, would you choose a Seeker over a wizard, archer or Psy in NW/TW? I wouldn't because there's no way in hell a seeker's getting off regular zerk crits unless you stick a cleric on him 24/7, and even then you have to question if that's really an effective DD when the other three don't need a cleric 24/7 to DD.
Seekers have the problem of, if you try to stick them on the front lines, one of the three main DDs (Psychics) eat them alive. That's also the very same reason Mystics are more support + minor DD and not full-on DDs: Archers eat them alive. But whereas a Mystic can heal or send pets to harass when there's too many archers for them to DD, a Seeker....well, can't do **** when there's too many Psys on the field, now can he? Part of the reason Wizzies, Psys and Archers are the DDs is because they have the best DD in the game, the other part of it is that they're weak to classes you would never ever ever see DDing in TW or NW or simply have impractical DD style for TW/NW(Barbs, Mystics, Clerics), so they don't have to worry about being facerolled mid-TW.

Meanwhile, you know who can consistently hit hard as a truck on command, without relying on a lucky zerk-crit? Wizards. You ask me if I want a Seeker or a Wizard on my team? I'm taking the Wizard every single day of the week, no exceptions. Hell, even if I desperately need a physical DD, I'm probably gonna take an archer over a seeker just because with the archer, I don't have to worry about covering him from BASICALLY ANY CONTROL SKILL to allow him to DD.

I'll never understand why people call Seekers OP. Maybe that's because my class is strong at them, or maybe it's because people tend to focus solely on "OMG THIS CLASS CAN DEAL A BAJILLION DAMAGE" and conveniently forget to mention the "ONCE EVERY FULL MOON" part of the deal.

IHaxJoo - Raging Tide · April 2013

Longknife - Harshlands wrote: »

I can't help but feel like people that call seeker's OP focus solely on that point.

I've actually had debates with people before about if Psy is strong vs. Seeker or Seeker is strong vs. Psy. I'll point out that Psy has 20 second physical immunity, a 6 second stun, another variable stun shield, a skill that resists an entire hit, incredible cast time whereas seekers can be rather slow, soul of silence AND white voodoo can be surprisingly effective for if the Seeker is still standing after all that time.

As a counter argument, all I hear is "zerk crit." Huh. Oh-kay.
Tell me, if you have a Seeker fight a Psy 100 times, how many of those fights do you think involve a Seeker hitting a zerk crit, and how many of those do you think involve the Psy just ripping the Seeker apart because he's completely immune while matching the Seeker's defense levels with attack levels?

I've come to find that, for whatever reason....It used to be barbs and sins attracted people with egos who hate losing. There's still plenty, but I'm also noticing plenty of Seekers who have massive egos and can't stand losing. I've tried making a point to a couple that they're weak vs. Psy, and we'll fight a few rounds. The only ones that beat me are r9 3rd +11-12 to my r9 +8, and even then I can win a third or fourth of the time. They'll proudly show off how they win majority of the time, and it's like ok, but don't you think there's a problem when I can win consistently (even if it's just 25-33% of the time) when there's such a giant gear-gap?

It also feels like a lot of people that call Seekers OP call them OP solely because they've been hit with a 200k zerk crit. Ok, that's great and all, but it's not practical. The Seeker has no control over when that happens, he just kinda swings and hopes for one. For all the people calling Seekers OP, would you choose a Seeker over a wizard, archer or Psy in NW/TW? I wouldn't because there's no way in hell a seeker's getting off regular zerk crits unless you stick a cleric on him 24/7, and even then you have to question if that's really an effective DD when the other three don't need a cleric 24/7 to DD.
Seekers have the problem of, if you try to stick them on the front lines, one of the three main DDs (Psychics) eat them alive. That's also the very same reason Mystics are more support + minor DD and not full-on DDs: Archers eat them alive. But whereas a Mystic can heal or send pets to harass when there's too many archers for them to DD, a Seeker....well, can't do **** when there's too many Psys on the field, now can he? Part of the reason Wizzies, Psys and Archers are the DDs is because they have the best DD in the game, the other part of it is that they're weak to classes you would never ever ever see DDing in TW or NW or simply have impractical DD style for TW/NW(Barbs, Mystics, Clerics), so they don't have to worry about being facerolled mid-TW.

Meanwhile, you know who can consistently hit hard as a truck on command, without relying on a lucky zerk-crit? Wizards. You ask me if I want a Seeker or a Wizard on my team? I'm taking the Wizard every single day of the week, no exceptions. Hell, even if I desperately need a physical DD, I'm probably gonna take an archer over a seeker just because with the archer, I don't have to worry about covering him from BASICALLY ANY CONTROL SKILL to allow him to DD.

I'll never understand why people call Seekers OP. Maybe that's because my class is strong at them, or maybe it's because people tend to focus solely on "OMG THIS CLASS CAN DEAL A BAJILLION DAMAGE" and conveniently forget to mention the "ONCE EVERY FULL MOON" part of the deal.

I applaud u, sir, for ur comment. Right to the point.

trands · April 2013

@ Longknife : If you just say "uninstall ...now", that isn't called a debate, it's just upping your post count. Now, you're being constructive even though you're still turning others statement in a way they aren't really meant. Instead of pointing out incoherences (example : the seeker defense lvl buff is gimping the psychics att lvl buff more then the opposite, or how a ranged 15 sec cd no chi base damage + 450% weap + 5kish + possibly debuff and extra elemental damage, is a "caster skill" in physical damage that hits really hard while having a low cost and fairly low cd) and get a debate that will probably turn it to a yes-no argument, I'll try to go the other way.

You flipped at seeing me state I find seekers the hardest class to face. I'm going under the hypothesis that you aren't 1 of those "Psychics are the best since nobody else but me has a brain" and can admit the idea that all classes have strong and weak points. So I'd like to ask, at start, what would a psychic be weak at ? (don't worry, I'm not going to put in stupid replies like "uninstall". if I would want high post count, I'd be posting from the same avatar past 4 years)

So let's look at it from the other side. Sure psychic has immunity that renders half of the seekers skills rather inoffensive. But hey, what would it do with other classes ? Sure psychics have their attack levels that almost neutralize the seekers buff. But then, we don't really have the attack lvl advantage like vs other classes. Ofc, a psy has their stuns and immobilizes, but the amount of ranged skills of a seeker do make them harder to kite then the other HA classes.

Btw, don't make it sound like I consider seekers OP, because I never said that. Also, don't make it sound like I'm never able to beat a seeker 1vs1 or that I find seekers unbeatable. I just stated I found them the thoughest class to face. If that makes you consider me like a fail psy, keep in mind that I don't find the class you consider hardest worth mentionning b:cute

Longknife - Harshlands · April 2013

trands wrote: »

@ Longknife : If you just say "uninstall ...now", that isn't called a debate, it's just upping your post count. Now, you're being constructive even though you're still turning others statement in a way they aren't really meant. Instead of pointing out incoherences (example : the seeker defense lvl buff is gimping the psychics att lvl buff more then the opposite, or how a ranged 15 sec cd no chi base damage + 450% weap + 5kish + possibly debuff and extra elemental damage, is a "caster skill" in physical damage that hits really hard while having a low cost and fairly low cd) and get a debate that will probably turn it to a yes-no argument, I'll try to go the other way.

You flipped at seeing me state I find seekers the hardest class to face. I'm going under the hypothesis that you aren't 1 of those "Psychics are the best since nobody else but me has a brain" and can admit the idea that all classes have strong and weak points. So I'd like to ask, at start, what would a psychic be weak at ? (don't worry, I'm not going to put in stupid replies like "uninstall". if I would want high post count, I'd be posting from the same avatar past 4 years)

So let's look at it from the other side. Sure psychic has immunity that renders half of the seekers skills rather inoffensive. But hey, what would it do with other classes ? Sure psychics have their attack levels that almost neutralize the seekers buff. But then, we don't really have the attack lvl advantage like vs other classes. Ofc, a psy has their stuns and immobilizes, but the amount of ranged skills of a seeker do make them harder to kite then the other HA classes.

Btw, don't make it sound like I consider seekers OP, because I never said that. Also, don't make it sound like I'm never able to beat a seeker 1vs1 or that I find seekers unbeatable. I just stated I found them the thoughest class to face. If that makes you consider me like a fail psy, keep in mind that I don't find the class you consider hardest worth mentionning b:cute

Psychic is weak to mystics and clerics, which ties into part of the reason WHY Psychics are one of the main DDs: you will NOT see a cleric DDing in TW or NW and Mystics are gonna take a backseat, more supportive role in both because archers will eat Mystics alive if they try to act as normal DDs.

As to the rest of your post, "don't make it sound like I consider seekers OP/like I'm never able to beat them," I wrote three words. You're the one putting words in my mouth, not the reverse.

But if you can't figure out how to beat one of the classes you're STRONG against, yeah, reroll. Open with SoR to absorb a hit, Psy will immediately, DD on them blindly as you please, stun as Psy will comes off, Expel + BoL, DD on them blindly as you please, toss up Soul of Stunning for even MORE stun (which they'll set off THROUGH Expel thanks to their wonderful metal), now you have even MORE time to DD blindly. Soon your Psy will should come off cooldown, rinse and repeat. If a seeker is still standing after all that, he straight-up outgears you or you're doing something incredibly wrong.

So yes, reroll if you can't figure that out.
Alternatively you might be demon in which case that entire plan falls apart and yeah, Seekers WILL eat you alive. In which case you should uninstall for thinking going demon Psychic was a brilliant idea.

trands · April 2013

Longknife - Harshlands wrote: »

Open with

I guess that explains a most of your point of view. For the rest, ... sure if you want.

Must have been amusing to have seen those "debates" you mentionned b:laugh

Longknife - Harshlands · April 2013

trands wrote: »

I guess that explains a most of your point of view. For the rest, ... sure if you want.

Must have been amusing to have seen those "debates" you mentionned b:laugh

Are you suggesting there's something wrong with opening the fight by having SoR up and not SoSt? Are you suggesting the above doesn't work vs. Seekers?

If you are, by all means, please explain how they're supposed to be fought.

Eoria - Harshlands · April 2013

Boomz - Harshlands wrote: »

you guys are all talking about the fail barbs on your servers, which is about 95% of them because they don't know how to play. If you ever fight one that knows what they are doing your going to die. The only reason barbs have been getting tons of improvement is not because they were unequal, but because the people playing them weren't good at it. And Eoria I don't fail, I can kick your *** every time. I'm not saying I can't 1 shot r9 +12 JOSD barbs with my combos, because I have, its the fact that they can't be stunned, slowed, and have infinite chi/sparking ability. And not to mention they can purge you, you can't fly away from them, and sage barbs do full damage in tank form. Try fighting flameofwar he knows how to play.

lolololololol. Please try to kill my cleric 1v1. You can't. I assure you of that. Also, flame is bad and also suffers from the "all he does is trip spark" syndrome.

You might wanna consider that A. you're probably fighting a bunch of barbs that simply out-gear you and B. you're just a baddie.

Alsiadorra - Sanctuary · April 2013

Clerics need not apply because they win all pvp by default.

*quickly runs out of thread*

burningsweetfire · April 2013

I find assassins to be the most OP in endgames, otherwise the clerics.

A skilled sin can outmatch any class because they have all the control skills, infinite sparks, the ability to hit pass physical immunity, able to dodge status effects, and can survive one shots. Moreover, do not underestimate a sin for being squishy.

To be honest... I don't know where the idea of seekers being OP comes from, all I can guess is lowbies getting one shot and QQ on the forums. In my opinion, I think seekers was a poorly constructed class that the developers just throw on anything to make this class looks nice. They even had to increase the damage on seekers because their damage was so poor. I would like purify spell on my seeker instead of GoF, just to make up for the lack of control resist skills. Furthermore, seeker can only use swords, blades, dual swords, and dual blades? Like really? They're just lazy to put the animation for bow on the back or staff on the back. Just to shows you that seeker is just a show and tell class.

Raphxelion - Raging Tide · April 2013

seekers really aren't op..every class as something they can do really good end game. With Average gear seekers appear overpowered, mainly because of the defense lvl self buff we get. With endgame gear including opponents being equally geared seekers are quite balanced. They have the least anti stun skills...considering the seeker is sage, sage gets 3 second anti stun skill while demon doesn't get one. (not worth mentioning Last Stand, cant use it on will)

Raphxelion - Raging Tide wrote: »

1. r9.3Clerics...long sleep skill...stop ur heals from working...extreme poison...crazy magic attack...
2. r9.3BMS...with that magical marrow they use (and if they are good at alternating between marrows long fight) Plus they have blade tornado...skill is better than our edgeblur and with right debuffs it can kill a seeker in a couple hits if they don't run
3.r9.3 Wiz...b:bye (assuming the wizard is good)
4.r9.3 Sins...Demon - kinda easy...some are very good, and if they tripple spark aps...hopefully you have expel or ad or something cause you'll die
5.r9.3 Sins...Sage, they're actually alot harder to kill than demon sins...and assuming they know how to play...they will endlessly keep you controlled and with sage chill of deep and tidal protection...
6. mystics psychics - im assuming they are just as hard to kill at r9.3...didnt really pk any r9.3 mystics/psychic heavily yet
7. Seekers...long strange fight with you second guessing every skill you're about to do
8. you add players that know how to use genies...gl

archers purge+range= pretty much kill the seeker
barbs purge,gof, crit, arma can possibly kill a seeker if the seekers skills are all on cooldown
venos purge plus attack will kill a seeker

all assuming the people playing their classes know how to play...

burningsweetfire · April 2013

Raphxelion - Raging Tide wrote: »

all assuming the people playing their classes know how to play...

b:laugh that comes in 20% at a time.

spensen · April 2013

Psy ftw. Wiz 2nd Vote for me. Then the Archers. Then seekers.

CRYSTY - Sanctuary · April 2013

The mobs from the new Tideborn and Earthguard areas are insanly stronger+faster respawn time enough to overwhelm you in no time, compared to the old PWI map mobs , same level.No wonder why i don't see often a cleric,archer,etc doing an available quest in Earthguard area. (except the FCC hunters)
Perhaps thats why these classes are a bit better , to help lvling up and do their pve quests.
I dont think a (new) class is created/balanced just for pk or pvp by default.

off topic note: at least the bosses (including fb bosses) strength has been lowered compared to the 2008 PWI
(example 49 culti: luminorc architect's level has been reduced from 60 to 53) ,

but the drop rates has been also reduced.
(example fb19 cave: from ~ 20 solo runs on a veno 30 i've been able to get a mirage sword mold, now NOTHING, NADA, niente)

Apostasy - Raging Tide · April 2013

Seekers nor Wizzys are OP... IF they are ~ same level with ~ same gear

As a Psy, I see neither of these as being OP... however, there does also seem to be a "rock, paper, scissor" balance from the perspective of each class...

Seekers, most op class? pvp wise?

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