Those poor puppies die when...

...when they lure in human form f:worry

Azura - Lost City wrote: »

...when they lure in human form f:worry

I lure in human form depending on the mobs. <___<

HrunsPanda - Archosaur wrote: »

dont let them die b:shocked

mmm, delicious.

...when a barb uses physical ornies or a cape of elite leather.

...when a barb uses AM after roar.

...when a barb spams FR with a sin that can obviously tank.

...when a barb isn't tanking and still doesn't devour.

...when a barb stats vit, then complains about aggro.

...when a barb brings unaggroed mobs back to bb.

...when a barb has the cleric put up bb in Aba and pulls the boss back to it.

...when a barb insists the cleric use bb on a boss with stuns or no aoe.

Oh and the puppies die when:

Barbs think it is stupid to stat vit even while their weapons arent +12 yet and then choose to invest in armor refinements rather than first getting that weapon to +12.

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

mmm, delicious.

...when a barb uses physical ornies or a cape of elite leather.

A lot of puppies died cause of me, i've been using tt99 pdef ornaments for years XD
Poor puppies b:cry

HrunsPanda - Archosaur wrote: »

Conclusion: Spend your coins on refining your weapon before your armors. Your statpoints are more effective on vitin comparison.
If however you have enough HPs to feel comfortable with base vit AND lowly refined armors, then of course go ahead and go for max str.

If i understood you correctly you want a barb to be +12 weapon and +7 ALL armor rather than a barb with +10 ALL Armour and +8-10 weapon?

I hope you realize there are major three forms of PvP on this game,

1. Open map PK
2. NW
3. TW

For all of the above a barb with vit build and good survivability is the BEST. If you don't agree with that then I guess you are one of the many paper PK'ers who post on this forums, like the ones who make claw barb and pretend they are better in open map PvP without actually PK'ing ever.


If you meant, it is better to refine weapon to +10 rather than refine one piece of armor to +10 from +7 then I agree with you, or if you meant for PvE purpose ONLY then you are correct.

With lvl 11 Blood bath + 2 50% accuracy rings + 2 Amber Gems in Weapon, you should not have a problem killing sins and archers.

About the rest of your post, I could not understand what you were trying to say. So, I won't comment on it.

I never said going pure vit is the only way but for PvP vit barbs are better than any other build. Going VIT on a barb is the best way to tackle/beat better geared people. At end game gems and refines, STR barbs are probably close.

I have played Lost City, Sanctuary and a private server, I am yet to see a APS barb who rule in PK. If you have any link for a video which shows APS barb consistently beating +10/+12 r9s/r999s post it here, I would love to watch it.

Oh and btw with 3.5k Accuracy I land 80%+ hits on 600+ Dex sins.

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

...when a barb has the cleric put up bb in Aba and pulls the boss back to it.

What? What's wrong with this? o.O

There's no difference resulting from where the BB is placed, except for "everyone has to run in at once" versus "the barb runs in and pulls." Run in, Ream, run to BB, Ream again when it's close enough. If you can't take that first hit, what are you doing tanking?



But anyway, contributing. Puppies get axed when...

...a barb Roars a boss mid-way through without understanding how it resets aggro.

...a barb spends hundreds of millions of coin on R9 or greater gears "for survivability" and then never bothers to learn Cornered Beast.

...a barb digs NW flags without any apocs on-hand when someone more ready to run is available.

...a barb in high gear berates a barb in lesser gear for flag-digging when it's not an issue of gear*

oh, and...

...a barb uses aps gear/claws (there, I said it).

That's about all I can think of. Most of the basic ones have already been mentioned. Now, if we were compiling a list of things other people complain to barbs about, I'd have more to add. XD


*(This has actually happened to me. I've had multiple people complain to my TT99-geared barb about flag digging, including a prominent guild leader on my server. I then proceeded to run the flag that I had watched him fail to run twice in a row >_>)

Miugre - Heavens Tear wrote: »

What? What's wrong with this? o.O

The boss only has 1m hp. Pretty easy to kill even with a full caster squad. The hardest part about the boss is it starts IHing, regening from damage, and "charging up" a powerful attack based on the damage it takes. It doesn't start doing that until 30 seconds though, and pulling takes 20-30 seconds. If the squad all runs in together you have 30 seconds to kill a really simple boss, two full sparks worth of dding with no complications other than the first hit. If you pull you're likely to start the regen cycles and take a long time as the boss constantly heals itself and charges up, killing squishies. Barbs who do this usually get people killed by not understanding how the boss works.

Miugre - Heavens Tear wrote: »

...a barb digs NW flags without any apocs on-hand when someone more ready to run is available.

Agreed. I like to bounce around my NW squads and run with different factionmates. We're a TW faction and I'm not proud to say it but we often have better NW turnout than TW turnout, so NW is a great way to meet and practice group pk with everyone in your faction.

One squad lead, a seeker, was under the impression only HA tanks should carry the flag, primarily Barbs and seekers. Another squad ironically favored wizards, archers and BMs. Barbs and Seekers can take more damage but get hit for alot more from casters and archer magic attacks, and they both lack run skills and anti stun. Barbs have a few more tanking skills then a seeker and a naturally fast run rate but its shrunk to almost nothing when holding a flag and they're really apo reliant.

The squad that mixed up the flag carrier had more success since really the most tanky class against the ranged dd that catch you are your casters and an r9t3 caster will have purify proc.

Thinking flag carrying is anything like cata pulling is just wrong =/

Miugre - Heavens Tear wrote: »

...a barb in high gear berates a barb in lesser gear for flag-digging when it's not an issue of gear*

It's... kind of is an issue of gear. I've seen amazing tt99 barbs run successfully and I've 2 person killed r9t3+12 JoSD barbs that didn't put up a fight. I've even stun locked an r9t3 +10-12 vit barb for like 3 minutes while my teammates came to help and he did almost nothing to get away.

Its an issue of gear because assuming skill levels are the same then gear matters. You work as a group and its just selfish to grab a flag with worse gear while a better geared barb, more likely to have success, is standing right there. I had an archer digging when I came up on the flag and he stopped digging and whispered "you dig instead" because he's a team player.

I don't berate anyone for being selfish in NW. I'm not there to earn the other 250 people in my nation supply tokens. I'm there to earn supply tokens for myself and yah, for my squad mates. But sometimes the best way to do that is to let someone better geared carry the flag since you may get less contribution for not carrying it but you'll win the war and get more contribution that way and you'll earn the land.

Miugre - Heavens Tear wrote: »

...a barb uses aps gear/claws (there, I said it).

Yah, I hate barbs that hold aggro, survive way better by having constant chi, spark resist, and about 6x the paints heals, and contribute mass amounts of dd to the squad.

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

The boss only has 1m hp. Pretty easy to kill even with a full caster squad. The hardest part about the boss is it starts IHing, regening from damage, and "charging up" a powerful attack based on the damage it takes. It doesn't start doing that until 30 seconds though, and pulling takes 20-30 seconds. If the squad all runs in together you have 30 seconds to kill a really simple boss, two full sparks worth of dding with no complications other than the first hit. If you pull you're likely to start the regen cycles and take a long time as the boss constantly heals itself and charges up, killing squishies. Barbs who do this usually get people killed by not understanding how the boss works.

The critical flaw in this is in assuming that all (or even most) Aba/SoT kills are by high-aps squads. Most random runs I join have maybe two or three aps characters at most who can't drop the boss in 30 seconds anyway (and if they could, I'd probably find a less flagrantly OP squad). On my barb I put the squads together 99% of the time, which usually results in one or two aps characters at most. Also I'm not sure what kind of barbs you're running with, because when I pull Aba boss it takes 10s at most. o.O

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

Agreed. I like to bounce around my NW squads and run with different factionmates. We're a TW faction and I'm not proud to say it but we often have better NW turnout than TW turnout, so NW is a great way to meet and practice group pk with everyone in your faction.

One squad lead, a seeker, was under the impression only HA tanks should carry the flag, primarily Barbs and seekers. Another squad ironically favored wizards, archers and BMs. Barbs and Seekers can take more damage but get hit for alot more from casters and archer magic attacks, and they both lack run skills and anti stun. Barbs have a few more tanking skills then a seeker and a naturally fast run rate but its shrunk to almost nothing when holding a flag and they're really apo reliant.

The squad that mixed up the flag carrier had more success since really the most tanky class against the ranged dd that catch you are your casters and an r9t3 caster will have purify proc.

Thinking flag carrying is anything like cata pulling is just wrong =/

[...]

It's... kind of is an issue of gear. I've seen amazing tt99 barbs run successfully and I've 2 person killed r9t3+12 JoSD barbs that didn't put up a fight. I've even stun locked an r9t3 +10-12 vit barb for like 3 minutes while my teammates came to help and he did almost nothing to get away.

Its an issue of gear because assuming skill levels are the same then gear matters. You work as a group and its just selfish to grab a flag with worse gear while a better geared barb, more likely to have success, is standing right there. I had an archer digging when I came up on the flag and he stopped digging and whispered "you dig instead" because he's a team player.

I don't berate anyone for being selfish in NW. I'm not there to earn the other 250 people in my nation supply tokens. I'm there to earn supply tokens for myself and yah, for my squad mates. But sometimes the best way to do that is to let someone better geared carry the flag since you may get less contribution for not carrying it but you'll win the war and get more contribution that way and you'll earn the land.

Magnanimous - Heavens Tear wrote:

Against regular arcanes in NW, you are a 3-shot barb (or 1-shot against r9s3). In tight fights, you should strictly never touch the flag... It's already hard enough for your team to get control of the pit. You should not be wasting their time and throw away good opportunities for a better flag carrier with a high chance to deliver the flag.

In non-tight fights, it does not matter as long as you have a charger orb ready to use.

Can't speak for anyone with purify proc, but archers can be godly in flag pulling if they're opportunistic enough to grab an unguarded one. Holy path at dig finish + alacrity + apoc = 10 points. Similarly I would encourage any archer to cast alacrity on their flagrunner. I know on my barb if I could cast alacrity on myself in addition to apoc I'd improve my success rate from 75%-ish to at least 95%.

As far as equal gear, sure. Being in TT99 doesn't allow me much time to survive against enemies assaulting the pit of course, so in the lack of allies assisting me I have to pick one that's unattended and see if it spawns there. Then by the time I'm done HP + Charger, I'm already 3/4 of the way to the flag and there's no one in my tab-targetable area. It's amazing how often the enemy is asleep at the wheel, probably being too busy spawn-killing or whatever... but if any of them did follow me, a well-timed VT often bridges that gap. Really the only things that stop me are (a) people who manage to catch me mid-jump on my way out of the pit with a stun etc., (b) a quick-witted stunner who just respawned on the side of the map and makes me waste my apoc, or (c) Reel In while I'm under VT just before dropping the flag.

In theory, I would definitely yield the flag to someone else if it meant the difference between winning and losing the instance. But in practice, that usually only happens when the pit is actively being fought over, and I wouldn't drop myself into a hotly-contested pit anyway because of the aforementioned 3shot/1shot quality. :P Usually in that case I settle for picking off the casters attacking from the air and keeping Ancestral Rage ready if the enemy happens to win the contest.

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

Yah, I hate barbs that hold aggro, survive way better by having constant chi, spark resist, and about 6x the paints heals, and contribute mass amounts of dd to the squad.

So basically, you hate BMs? :P

Didn't see this till now.

Miugre - Heavens Tear wrote: »

The critical flaw in this is in assuming that all (or even most) Aba/SoT kills are by high-aps squads. Most random runs I join have maybe two or three aps characters at most who can't drop the boss in 30 seconds anyway (and if they could, I'd probably find a less flagrantly OP squad). On my barb I put the squads together 99% of the time, which usually results in one or two aps characters at most. Also I'm not sure what kind of barbs you're running with, because when I pull Aba boss it takes 10s at most. o.O

I can almost solo the boss before he buffs. Give me a second dd and the boss is dead. I've seen caster squads kill the boss in about 12 seconds while I HF'd on my bm as the only aps char. The boss has just over 1m hp. It's really not difficult and doesn't take an OP squad, just one that knows how to time sparks and debuffs.

I pointed this out in my first response and it was obviously ignored.

Miugre - Heavens Tear wrote: »

So basically, you hate BMs? :P

That was a sarcastic response to your aps barb hate. Just pointing out all the lovely benefits of apsing

Linc - Raging Tide wrote: »

So I was in this "mobless" warsong (no lane clearing, simply elemental pavilion teleporting/boss-killing) and the BM sd his 90% armor break move is better than the sage barb devour 50% armor break move and that I should refrain from devour on the pavilion bosses. Is a nice tip for quick killing the bosses, but like sd above by somebody, it's better to be spamming barb sage devour during longer lasting bosses like the Incarcerate.

b:bored

The BM was an idiot Linc. Lvl 11 GS gives 50% against mobs and 90% against players, and since you were killing a mob it'd have been equal to your devour but cost him 2 sparks. Much easier just to triple spark->HF and allow you to do the devouring. Plus if you're demon it'd last longer, making yours better (Although in an IG warsong the bosses are supposed to be dead in 15 seconds).

Walpurga - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Don't try to argue, saku Migure is one of those buff-alts/dinosaurs that go sage-vit and prefer to sit and look pretty while the sin tanks and then doesn't like it but refuses to evolve to meet the needs of the meta b:laugh

EDIT: some people will always hang on to "the way things were" rather than "the way things could be"

Not starting an argument, just relaying an experience in the game. If sage migre says the bm is a phony, then he might be right, lol i have no idea because I don't ever blademaster, i mostly nearly always 999% play barb, so i took what the bm said at face value, just as I will have to take saku's statement at face value, too bad that raging tides bm in my faction who schooled me on IG warsong bosses isn't in here to add his interpretation.

I have to admit, I was sort of amazed to hear this technique since playing for so long, I've only heard that the veno armor break was better than a barb's. Never heard this bm glacial thingy ever before the other day this week. So it may likely be misinformation . . .


b:bored

This is an excellent illustration, I understand exactly what you're talking about now. So the 90/60% demon version isn't even applicable with a boss. That's great stuff, thanks for clearing this up.

b:victory

trainedeye wrote: »

I've only heard that the veno armor break was better than a barb's.

this is why if you want to play barb 99% u don't have to play by "heard" but by reliable info. veno armor break can be stronger than barb but not reliable.

sage/demon devour grants 100% guaranteed 50% phisical def reduction, when venos have stronger only if demon and with 20% chance to inflict, or purelly luck with myriad rainbow.

in both cases as barb its my personal opinion u musnt do the "lets wait for the demon veno to try his luck" in those 15 secs, but rather inflict a sure guaranteed debuff, and maybe help with strength based tangling mire to actually let the dds use frenzy instead of it (or whatever).

bff ftw