Lower level bh dead?

Voidbreaker - Lost City · March 2013

does no one do lower level bh anymore? i went away for 2 years and recently came back, and no one does lower level bh's anymore, why is this?

_dblazen_ - Dreamweaver · March 2013

FC big rooms happened to make hyper babies.

SylenThunder - Twilight Temple · March 2013

The majority of lower leveled players in this game now are just alts of people with multiple 100+ toons. They solo their own **** and don't bother to help others.

If you're not 100+ and decently geared, quit the game. The community is **** for anyone below that.

Yzatel - Dreamweaver · March 2013

If we keep on discouraging people from playing the game, I don't see how the game itself will improve. Even if the game sucks, I've enjoyed my lower levels than the higher ones since I didn't have to worry much about equips and the like. And people still do lower bhs, just rarer than when you were playing.

Euthymius - Heavens Tear · March 2013

I still see a few from time to time, but they're most likely being sped through with high leveled assistance.

Ezio_Sin - Heavens Tear · March 2013

Well mainly plvl babies, but i have just been holding off on my BH lol..i got like 6 stacked uo i should get done but been grinding on veno b:pleased

Most people probably just hold off on em. It IS x2 so people probably taking advantage of some stuff. If bh had x2 on it then there would be more lol. (xp and spirit wise)

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands · March 2013

That's call power level, people found a way to level up more fast then doing quests/bhs, all I can suggest you is to do quests, try to get a helpful faction that will help you with low level bhs and good luck.

ParasiteEve_ - Raging Tide · March 2013

It's a really sad state of the game to be honest having also returned from a pwi break, people are just running into FC power leveling and passing their gears through Account Stashes. So the game now offers very little fun factor to the genuine new players who want to start playing.

Even most "helpful" factions after some time get annoyed when people start asking them for help. It's not because they're being dependent on the Guild to do their Bhs and help them farm Mats it's just that they really can't find anyone out their level to do stuff with. This game is somewhat dead in the aspect of people actually playing it (questing and farming together).

It's now become the norm to buy heads or an FC run from level 1, spend hours farming mobs to make coins in order to buy Mats for gears since there's hardly anyone doing TT runs anymore.

Miugre - Heavens Tear · March 2013

Yzatel - Dreamweaver wrote: »

IIt's now become the norm to buy heads or an FC run from level 1, spend hours farming mobs to make coins in order to buy Mats for gears since there's hardly anyone doing TT runs anymore.

Nah that's not true, there's always your friendly neighborhood aps farmers doing TT. It's just, y'know, they won't do it with you. But they'll be glad to sell you their mats.

Help? What's that? Selling you TT mats is a form of help...... kinda... :P

Please tell me people aren't too dumb to get the sarcasm... -_-

VKnightV - Lost City · March 2013

Miugre - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Nah that's not true, there's always your friendly neighborhood aps farmers doing TT. It's just, y'know, they won't do it with you. But they'll be glad to sell you their mats.

Help? What's that? Selling you TT mats is a form of help...... kinda... :P

b:shocked i dont want that kinda help RAWR b:angry

cant it be the telling and the compasionate help not the woodooo they do with there claw and daggs b:shocked

Miugre - Heavens Tear · March 2013

VKnightV - Lost City wrote: »

b:shocked i dont want that kinda help RAWR b:angry

cant it be the telling and the compasionate help not the woodooo they do with there claw and daggs b:shocked

Welcome to PWI. You'll come for the content... you'll stay for the charming gear elitism. :P

VKnightV - Lost City · March 2013

Miugre - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Welcome to PWI. You'll come for the content... you'll stay for the charming gear elitism. :P

ooh i been here forever and i know how the elite are haha.

but i feel newies pain as i made a new barb and there seldom anybody my lv and i bet even less doing bh b:shocked

Jaabg - Sanctuary · March 2013

Everyone should roll a new toon on sanctuary, i see lower lvl bh squads being created most of the time, 39 and up. It's not fcc that is the issue, it is the players.

burningsweetfire · March 2013

Jaabg - Sanctuary wrote: »

Everyone should roll a new toon on sanctuary, i see lower lvl bh squads being created most of the time, 39 and up. It's not fcc that is the issue, it is the players.

It's the player's decision to buy fc heads or not, which is caused by impatience and competition.

I can say the problem is the player, because he/she choose to be impatience and think they have learned their class and know how the game works until the meet reality, end game.

Most QQ and complication come from these fc-born players, because they don't know how endgame works.

The only BH that is left is BH59+, and BH59 occurs often and BH69 no one wanna wine.

VKnightV - Lost City · March 2013

burningsweetfire wrote: »

It's the player's decision to buy fc heads or not, which is caused by impatience and competition.

I can say the problem is the player, because he/she choose to be impatience and think they have learned their class and know how the game works until the meet reality, end game.

Most QQ and complication come from these fc-born players, because they don't know how endgame works.

The only BH that is left is BH59+, and BH59 occurs often and BH69 no one wanna wine.

its partly the greedy sellers foult to lol.

hellwingwatlz · March 2013

I have to agree with this. I was just to quit the game after reaching lvl 100 since as a solo player I can not make coins to improve skills, gears, etc. Fortunately, bh100 rewards has the chance to win 2m coins, 5m coins, chips and mirages!! So I was able to lvl up skills, to buy some books and improve my gear SLOOWWLLLY. Tha keep me playing the game.

But since it its a bit boring being powerless (just morai is giving me problems b:surrender) I started a Barb. Surprisingly there are almost nobody doing the lower bhs!!! and grinding is a pain, low lvl dq items are 1 coin !!! and repair is sinking all the poor coin rewards from the quests. Not even mention that when i have the enough spirit to lvl the skills, i dont have the coins to lvl it, making me look even more weak that ever!!b:cry

Defiintely lower bh need a better reward, more than exp, like mirages (10k each are very good when you npc'em), may be blemished or average shards, or an ultra rare 1m card, that would help the new players, and reactivate the bhs.

Finaly unless special runs like the ones for the robe, bh should not allow players 15 lvls below/above the lvl range for the bh.

b:bye

Nyxsa - Heavens Tear · March 2013

I still try to run lower BHs when my alts need them or if someone really needs them. Its just a fun way to see how far you've come in the game. I used to be scared especially as a low level veno back in the day and they said at "-- lvl you outta be able to solo" It was thrilling to see how I was able to tank on my own, though of course the higher the BHs, the more muscle you need which is something I can deal with and actually miss because of all the powerlvling going on. I miss the way things were before this. I used to think 80 was the prime level for FF, which I thought AWESOME a new playground to show I'm a higher level. . .then. . . . advertisements for lvl 1-79 Runs in FF. . . -.- really derailed my interest to level up hence why I'm sill 94.

So yeah BHs arent the same anymore because of those adorable FF babies, you can only hope they know their class when you squad with them.

Oliiander - Lost City · March 2013

hellwingwatlz wrote: »

Defiintely lower bh need a better reward, more than exp, like mirages (10k each are very good when you npc'em), may be blemished or average shards, or an ultra rare 1m card, that would help the new players, and reactivate the bhs.

Exp is plenty reason to do the low level BHs, the problem as stated is, that no squads run them anymore. Stood on the platform, "Forming BH39, pm me please" for 10 minutes, not a single reply from people within the BH range, but a few people offering to help, probably to shut me up. When I drop into Arch now, I don't ever see any white chat looking for more people/forming squad for BH 29/39/51/59/69/79/89/whatever.
Ever since the low level quest revamp, coins doesn't seem to be a massive problem, with the endless amounts of quests on offer. Perfect World just isn't attracting many new players, I did a squad for BH59, all within level range but only one of the six people was new to the game. So either the higher levels find the motivation to rerun the beloved instances of old or we bribe us back a new playerbaseb:cute (I suggest a good balance between cookies and blackmail.)

hellwingwatlz wrote: »

Finaly unless special runs like the ones for the robe, bh should not allow players 15 lvls below/above the lvl range for the bh.
b:bye

I am lazy. I'll be staking my BHs 'till kingdom come, and chances are, I'll be above the level range when I actually get around to doing them.
Away from my laziness now. What if you want to revisit old BHs that resulted in you holding clumps of hair your ripped out of your head? Y'know, revisit them and exact your merciless revenge? Or you could do barely soloable-by-yourself BHs to improve your PvE effectiveness, know your limits and all that jazz. Either way, shoving a level limit onto the Uner 100 BHs seems a tad pointless to me.

Metalpuritan - Sanctuary · March 2013

Yeah lower level BHs are dead. People like me log our assassins in and put our lowbie toon in follow mode and just solo our BHs all the way through bh79. So yeah, BHs are dead. LOL @ FCC, not even an issue. I can do that with my sin too, no problem. Who needs a squad when we can just log our assassins in and do them ourselves with dual client?!

Hmmmmm....

Colum - Raging Tide · April 2013

Soloing BHs for alts is very boring and teaches nothing about squadplay. I'd like to learn healing ways well on myst before entering FC for example.. Luckily BH 59 and up ain't completely dead on RT but the players doing it are usually complete noobs who do not take any sort of advice.

MystieMoon - Dreamweaver · April 2013

Remember there was that brief moment where hypers in FC didn't work and ppl started doing BHs again? Whoops b:avoid

Descendus - Lost City · April 2013

And yet some people still think restricting frost to 80+ is a bad thing...

Oh wait, that's right, they're the people that Sell FCC BR's 95% of the time >_>

MetzliDemon - Harshlands · April 2013

Yzatel - Dreamweaver wrote: »

If we keep on discouraging people from playing the game, I don't see how the game itself will improve. Even if the game sucks, I've enjoyed my lower levels than the higher ones since I didn't have to worry much about equips and the like. And people still do lower bhs, just rarer than when you were playing.

That's what I was thinking the other day.. I've a lot of alts and I have my main, my 101 sin, and, not only when you get to lvl 100, even when you're lower lvl, you get very worried about your gear, because if it isn't good enough no one will accept you for anything: bh, fc, whatever... And I was thinking I missed so much the times when my sin was a lowbie and I didn't worry about anything than just enjoying the game... Now is just worries all the time "ok, I finally got r8, now I gotta save up money for nirvana!" and my cleric is on her way to lvl 90 "ok, I gotta start getting her the matts to full tt90 set", or maybe is just me that I play with too many chars at same time (now I've been playing more with sin and cleric, otherwise I'd end up crazy thinking about all my alts gears xD)...
But yeah, everytime I see anyone looking for a bh for lower lvl char, I change char imediatly to one of my alts on the lvl range and join the squad

And hopefully, a high lvl won't appear to **** up all our fun -.-

MystieMoon - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Remember there was that brief moment where hypers in FC didn't work and ppl started doing BHs again? Whoops b:avoid

BH?! What I most saw on Harshlands was people suddently discovered that Phoenix Valley existed and millions started doing it, but as many were hyper babies, they didn't know basic things like don't run to bb without aoe on mobs 1st... And that's how I died in my cleric, because a stupid seeker didn't know that basic rule -.-
I probably should have be patient and teach them those rules, but I thought people 80+ knew that...

Sarrafeline - Sanctuary · April 2013

1) FCC is broken. It needs either a complete nerf, or a 75+ entry restriction.

2) The player base is broken. There are too many people playing that are only playing for themselves instead of to have fun, make friends, etc.

3) The GM's are broken. They are completely unwilling to do ANYTHING to moderate WC, ban glitchers, or enforce most, if any, parts of the TOS.

I've been playing STO a lot lately. The Devs are actively part of the community, they are located here instead of China, and they ARE working on balancing that game. It's been painfully obvious for a long time that PWI is no longer PWE's flagship game, despite the money that it pulls in.

Giving community members the ability to police WC, either with a mute, or temp ban, would be much better than just ignoiring it, or putting in **** chat filters.

exarsix · April 2013

i still see a few low lvl bhs...even bh29 here and there

Liveena - Heavens Tear · April 2013

Lower lvl bh are not quite dead actually, just the people who have them are bit lazy and asked high lvl in their friend list or fac to run it for them. b:bye

Ursa - Dreamweaver · April 2013

Sarrafeline - Sanctuary wrote: »

1) FCC is broken. It needs either a complete nerf, or a 75+ entry restriction.

this is the gear type elitism projected on levels.
Why do you care how people level up? It took me 9 months to get to 100 some years back. You think if it would take that long now would there be any players left in the game?
And why 75+ for FC? it's not like you actually learn to play your char until 75, it's the exact opposite of it.
The big challenges of the game, for that gear and level are still Gamma then Delta ,learning to control aggro in BH69 so you don't get 1 shotted, learning how to purify on Polearm, learning how to fking use your 79 skills properly.
But nooooo, lets make FC 75+, I'm sure that will make it so we'll have only experts running around when you actually train them with all the challenges the game throws at you below 75....JFC sometimes ppl are ...

2) The player base is broken. There are too many people playing that are only playing for themselves instead of to have fun, make friends, etc.

They have friends and they have fun. You're not in their friendlist or they don't want to talk to you so what? Earth is not the center of the universe...

3) The GM's are broken. They are completely unwilling to do ANYTHING to moderate WC, ban glitchers, or enforce most, if any, parts of the TOS.

I started when this sever started. I know people that used every **** and exploit and trick in the book. They are still in the game, full of r9rr +12 toons doing the same thing. it's not like there was ever anything enforced from ToS in this game, it was free for all. You did not do it? you just got behind. E.G: look at my lvl, I never glitched goonz, how did that helped me? Should have glitched them to oblivion and get another 20 points to mag + some vit.

I've been playing STO a lot lately. The Devs are actively part of the community, they are located here instead of China, and they ARE working on balancing that game. It's been painfully obvious for a long time that PWI is no longer PWE's flagship game, despite the money that it pulls in.

this game was not ruined by China. Anni packs sales and R9 was added by the management here. China tailored the game for the need of PWI management. They're the one that screwed up. Another big thing that screwed this game is the never ending gear mill.
This game had everything: casual PvP, all out GvG in TW, Arena and all the other stuff that would have kept ppl playing it for a while without the insanely stupid APS gear and the additions of classes like Sins ( I know I play 2 endgame ones, but they're still plain STUPID overpowered). The current gear system is such that no one new can compete for anything unless he gets real money in. That makes newcomers never be able to actually have a chance in any kind of PvP and keep the trend of already filthy rich dominating.
The addition of new instances right now just gives diminishing returns, because they +10 and more G16 can farm whatever they need on their own anyway without charging a single cent. But I'm sure the pps presentations in PWI office show otherwise, lol.

Giving community members the ability to police WC, either with a mute, or temp ban, would be much better than just ignoiring it, or putting in **** chat filters.

Alsiadorra - Sanctuary · April 2013

Has been "dead" for a few years now, with BH29 truly being dead.

Kerius - Dreamweaver · April 2013

Ursa - Dreamweaver wrote: »

this is the gear type elitism projected on levels.
Why do you care how people level up? It took me 9 months to get to 100 some years back. You think if it would take that long now would there be any players left in the game?
And why 75+ for FC? it's not like you actually learn to play your char until 75, it's the exact opposite of it.

Because everyone only being focused on FC(really, this goes for any element of any MMO) not only completely ignores lower-level content, but directly takes away from others' enjoyment of said content. Newbie towns and questing areas are deserted and lowbie BH squads without high-level 'help' are nigh impossible to get... FC effectively stripped away any enjoyment anyone could get from lower-level gameplay, either because players are enjoying skipping everything just to get a higher level, or because either new players or anyone with a lower-level alt is basically forced to choose boring, lonely solo quests, or be powerleveled through FC themselves.

And FYI, yes, lower levels are a great way to learn your character. Without them, the ones that are fresh off the FC assembly line would start squadding with no clue what to do at all - which is apparently the trend for the last couple years.

Ursa - Dreamweaver wrote: »

The big challenges of the game, for that gear and level are still Gamma then Delta ,learning to control aggro in BH69 so you don't get 1 shotted, learning how to purify on Polearm, learning how to fking use your 79 skills properly.
But nooooo, lets make FC 75+, I'm sure that will make it so we'll have only experts running around when you actually train them with all the challenges the game throws at you below 75....JFC sometimes ppl are ...

There are actually high-level Clerics that don't even know what Purify is, let alone attempted to head in BH69. They have a higher chance of actually learning what skills are available to them and what they do before heading into instances. FC babies though apparently tend to ignore a lot of skills, if not every skill altogether. Not that some aren't willing to learn of course, but so much hassle would be saved if they were to know their class ahead of time.

Ursa - Dreamweaver · April 2013

So basically you're saying that for the enjoyment of a few lowbies the whole player base should suffer the pain of grinding for months to raise an alt? Isn't that just plain stupid and selfish?
I leveled up at a time when I was watching my xp bar and praying for next level because I knew I'll have some quests to do and I'll be out of **** grind mode. And I was doing endless FB runs for a bit of reputation, a bit of xp and to wash the taste of grind out of my mouth. Having 5k reputation was something, getting close to 10k reputation was amazing. 15k reputation there were probably one or two on the server.
There were people running Fb39 for 100 times trying to get a drop on Wheel of Fate mold, because it was just one of those weapons every caster should have. Right now, the game gives you gear from packs which is way better than anything there was in game back then, and comes free. So how the hell being overpowered helps you learn to play? It just adds to ignorance. It's like saying don't do drugs, they'll kill you fast, but it's ok to smoke

Closing the FC /limiting the FC is not a good option. It's like saying internet is bad, let's cut the power in the whole world. FC is good and should be there as an option for people who want to power level and have the money for it. There is nothing wrong in that. There's nothing wrong if someone playing this game for 4 years wants to get an alt to 100 asap and get things rolling. I think that person has earn the right to do so. Same right has someone who just charges gold and pays for FCs. Both side earned some privileges in their own way and it's still an expense to do so.
What PWI should do is to boost up the coin, xp and SP gain from normal quest. I don't know the factor out of my head, but it should be at least a factor of 10.
Let new ppl get money, advance in levels faster, get more SP so they can get their genies/skills leveled faster. Give the people in squad bonus for killing mobs in the world, don't cut the xp gain in half. 2 ppl in squad? Great, give 110% xp for that mob. 3 pp? 125% and so on. Keep SP and coin gain , raise xp gain only. That way setting up a zhen squad at the pirates will actually be worth it if you want fast and free xp. Tanks will learn to pull and grab aoe agro, arcanes will learn to control aoes and avoid damage, Bms will learn to stun and aoe.
Back in the days of my wizard level up I had to hit mid 90s to level all the skills I wanted to level. That's effin bullscrap! Higher coin rewards from quest would be balanced somehow by more spending on skills by the players so it's not like there's going to be an inflation issue anyway.
Make it so that the leveling speed between FC and normal questing would be something like 2/1 based on the number of killed mobs. Sure, you will have an advantage in FC, leveling your char twice as fast, but doing normal quests you're going to still level decently, make some coins, gain more SP, check the world/areas, read the story (which by the way is quite well written) and so on. People will still do FCs, but they will go out and do quests for the fun of it.
Right now it's not fun to do quests. You spend an hour killing mobs 1 by 1 that give you 250xp and 50 SP, grab a few coins and drops and turn in the quest. YAAAAAY, you got 50k xp. The alternative: Buy FC , kill 1 mob, 28k xp.
There are a lot of ways to make pre 100 levels fun with minimal effort.

Kerius - Dreamweaver · April 2013

Ursa - Dreamweaver wrote: »

So basically you're saying that for the enjoyment of a few lowbies the whole player base should suffer the pain of grinding for months to raise an alt? Isn't that just plain stupid and selfish?

I would appreciate it if you didn't put words into my mouth. I'm saying that it's for the enjoyment of everyone, or at least the most players possible. Sure the FC babies might not enjoy questing all the time till a decent level, but there's arguably a greater chance they'll enjoy the game much more when they do reach a decent level, as they'llbe able to participate in group play much more efficiently. Not to mention, who knows? Some might even enjoy some of the lowbie content. But none of that will happen if they just blaze past most of the game. Hell, some players might feel that they mnissed out on so much of the game, or they'll feel that the game lacks content, just because they only experienced one instance.

And indeed, powerleveling a character on does not know how to properly play, then trying to play in a team with others is selfish in and of itself. Just as the hyper babies don't wanna hassle with learning skills or playing the rest of the game, much of the other population would rather not deal with squad members that keep the rest of the squad down.

Ursa - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I leveled up at a time when I was watching my xp bar and praying for next level because I knew I'll have some quests to do and I'll be out of **** grind mode. And I was doing endless FB runs for a bit of reputation, a bit of xp and to wash the taste of grind out of my mouth. Having 5k reputation was something, getting close to 10k reputation was amazing. 15k reputation there were probably one or two on the server.

I know how you feel, and yes, it was a huge grindfest if you ran out of quests. But it's not like that any more. Once upon a time, players as low as level 35(lower if they tried leveling a genie) needed to start grinding. Nowadays though, there are so many quests, new quests as well as old quests that have gotten easier with more rewards, grinding isn't mandatory till at least in a character's 60s. Even if that. Not only quests too. You have 3 BHs to do instead of one, all of which can be stacked. You have Phoenix Valley, which starts as low as level 30. You have supply stashes, dreamchaser packs, and attendance buffs to make you stronger. You have divine contracts, which reward you with tons of really awesome pots, and occasionally a weapon. And if you're low on cash, visit Jones.

If the excuse is trying to avoid grinding, sorry, but that's just not an issue any more.

Ursa - Dreamweaver wrote: »

There were people running Fb39 for 100 times trying to get a drop on Wheel of Fate mold, because it was just one of those weapons every caster should have. Right now, the game gives you gear from packs which is way better than anything there was in game back then, and comes free. So how the hell being overpowered helps you learn to play? It just adds to ignorance. It's like saying don't do drugs, they'll kill you fast, but it's ok to smoke

Not every caster tried to get Wheel of Fate. And I would argue that the dreamchaser weapons do not make you overpowered. Or at least not to the point of hampering your experience with other skills.

And keep in mind that this is from the perspective of a strictly PvEer. With PvP, learning your character's abilities is probably much more important if you wanna hold your own, even if you have the best equipment in the game. Though I can only make educated guesses with PvP.

Ursa - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Closing the FC /limiting the FC is not a good option. It's like saying internet is bad, let's cut the power in the whole world. FC is good and should be there as an option for people who want to power level and have the money for it. There is nothing wrong in that. There's nothing wrong if someone playing this game for 4 years wants to get an alt to 100 asap and get things rolling. I think that person has earn the right to do so. Same right has someone who just charges gold and pays for FCs. Both side earned some privileges in their own way and it's still an expense to do so.
What PWI should do is to boost up the coin, xp and SP gain from normal quest. I don't know the factor out of my head, but it should be at least a factor of 10.
Let new ppl get money, advance in levels faster, get more SP so they can get their genies/skills leveled faster. Give the people in squad bonus for killing mobs in the world, don't cut the xp gain in half. 2 ppl in squad? Great, give 110% xp for that mob. 3 pp? 125% and so on. Keep SP and coin gain , raise xp gain only. That way setting up a zhen squad at the pirates will actually be worth it if you want fast and free xp. Tanks will learn to pull and grab aoe agro, arcanes will learn to control aoes and avoid damage, Bms will learn to stun and aoe.
Back in the days of my wizard level up I had to hit mid 90s to level all the skills I wanted to level. That's effin bullscrap! Higher coin rewards from quest would be balanced somehow by more spending on skills by the players so it

Now enhancing benefits of non-FC gameplay instead I could actually get behind. Because if there were a choice, I'd rather not get rid of any content. If FC could remain as is, but the rest of the game could draw in a healthy amount of players... I say let's do it.

Lower level bh dead?

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