Demon/Sage skills with effect to consume less sparks don't work as claimed
Fryvorg - Sanctuary
Posts: 299 Arc User
As reaction on XSonOfCircex's post about that issue, I want to confirm this during my testing phase and make an own thread about it.
Problem:
This issue is connected with every Demon or Sage skill that has a chance to consume less sparks than the original lv. 10 version of it, which are mostly sage. I have experienced it with Cleric's Sage Tempest that normally takes two sparks, but with a chance of 50% it takes only one.
However, it doesn't work properly if your chi is higher than 3 sparks, as it is programmed that it would first give the spark at a chance of 50% and then always takes the 2 sparks the skill needs. Thus, if your chi is higher than 300 (your highest is 399), the chi bar will get full without getting the whole spark back, and then take the 2 sparks away, which would result in less chi then it should be.
Example:
My current chi is 350 (3 1/2 sparks). I cast sage Tempest and I am lucky and the sage effect is activated. So I would get 1 spark, but as my max chi can only be 399, I am only granted 49 of it. Then the 2 sparks will be taken away, so I end up with 199 chi, although if it worked as it should, I would still have 250 chi. So in the end, the skill consumed 151 chi instead of 100, although the sage effect proced. With full chi you will never encounter the skill consuming only one spark, but always two.
Solution:
It would be pretty simple to fix this: Just turn the effect around, so it first takes two sparks and then give 1 spark back at the given chance.
Exemplified Summary:
1. Log in with a Lv. 99+ Cleric
2. Learn the Cleric skill "Tempest" and max it out to the sage version.
3. Use Tempest when you have more than 3 sparks.
4. Every time the sage effect kicks in, you will have less than 2 sparks, making you lose more than 1 spark still.
This is also related to skills that normally cost one spark, but have a chance to cast it without consuming it.
Skills that have this issue:
(The following list hasn't been completely verified yet, all entries I haven't tested or haven't been confirmed by others yet are marked with a question mark)
Sage
Blademaster's Mage Bane
Blademaster's Piercing Winds
Blademaster's Drake Bash
Blademaster's Vacuous Palm
Blademaster's Myriad Sword Stance
Blademaster's Glacial Spike
Wizard's Blade Tempest
Wizard's Mountain's Seize
Cleric's Siren's Kiss
Cleric's Tempest
Venomancer's Parasitic Nova (?)
Venomancer's Lending Hand (?)
Venomancer's Stunning Blow (?)
Assasin's Headhunt (?)
Psychic's Red Tide
Psychic's Earth Vector (?)
Mytic's Bramble Tornado
Demon
Wizard's Black Ice Dragon Strike (?)
Barbarian's Firestorm (?)
Psychic's Psychic Will (?)
Seeker's Voidstep (?)
Mystic's Cragglord
Problem:
This issue is connected with every Demon or Sage skill that has a chance to consume less sparks than the original lv. 10 version of it, which are mostly sage. I have experienced it with Cleric's Sage Tempest that normally takes two sparks, but with a chance of 50% it takes only one.
However, it doesn't work properly if your chi is higher than 3 sparks, as it is programmed that it would first give the spark at a chance of 50% and then always takes the 2 sparks the skill needs. Thus, if your chi is higher than 300 (your highest is 399), the chi bar will get full without getting the whole spark back, and then take the 2 sparks away, which would result in less chi then it should be.
Example:
My current chi is 350 (3 1/2 sparks). I cast sage Tempest and I am lucky and the sage effect is activated. So I would get 1 spark, but as my max chi can only be 399, I am only granted 49 of it. Then the 2 sparks will be taken away, so I end up with 199 chi, although if it worked as it should, I would still have 250 chi. So in the end, the skill consumed 151 chi instead of 100, although the sage effect proced. With full chi you will never encounter the skill consuming only one spark, but always two.
Solution:
It would be pretty simple to fix this: Just turn the effect around, so it first takes two sparks and then give 1 spark back at the given chance.
Exemplified Summary:
1. Log in with a Lv. 99+ Cleric
2. Learn the Cleric skill "Tempest" and max it out to the sage version.
3. Use Tempest when you have more than 3 sparks.
4. Every time the sage effect kicks in, you will have less than 2 sparks, making you lose more than 1 spark still.
This is also related to skills that normally cost one spark, but have a chance to cast it without consuming it.
Skills that have this issue:
(The following list hasn't been completely verified yet, all entries I haven't tested or haven't been confirmed by others yet are marked with a question mark)
Sage
Blademaster's Mage Bane
Blademaster's Piercing Winds
Blademaster's Drake Bash
Blademaster's Vacuous Palm
Blademaster's Myriad Sword Stance
Blademaster's Glacial Spike
Wizard's Blade Tempest
Wizard's Mountain's Seize
Cleric's Siren's Kiss
Cleric's Tempest
Venomancer's Parasitic Nova (?)
Venomancer's Lending Hand (?)
Venomancer's Stunning Blow (?)
Assasin's Headhunt (?)
Psychic's Red Tide
Psychic's Earth Vector (?)
Mytic's Bramble Tornado
Demon
Wizard's Black Ice Dragon Strike (?)
Barbarian's Firestorm (?)
Psychic's Psychic Will (?)
Seeker's Voidstep (?)
Mystic's Cragglord
World is full of illusions.
________________________
What if I played a Cleric?
________________________
All Joy In Keeping Us Medically Energetic.
________________________
What if I played a Cleric?
________________________
All Joy In Keeping Us Medically Energetic.
Post edited by Fryvorg - Sanctuary on
0
Comments
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One reason that the developers may have made the skill work this way could be due to the way the server handles skills. The server probably handles it in the order of Channel > Cast > Apply Effects, Damage > Drain Chi, Mana, Cooldown, where the chi, mana and cooldown are handled separately as opposed to being a part of the effect of the skill.
I forgot who suggested it, but it would also solve the problem if a non-purgeable buff is applied to give back the sparks 1 second after the skill is casted.Zsw -104 Sage Assassin
TehZsw - 100 Demon Archer
All Luck No Skillz PvPer: youtube.com/user/zsw0070 -
Zsw - Dreamweaver wrote: »One reason that the developers may have made the skill work this way could be due to the way the server handles skills. The server probably handles it in the order of Channel > Cast > Apply Effects, Damage > Drain Chi, Mana, Cooldown, where the chi, mana and cooldown are handled separately as opposed to being a part of the effect of the skill.
I forgot who suggested it, but it would also solve the problem if a non-purgeable buff is applied to give back the sparks 1 second after the skill is casted.
While that would work without issues for the most part, it would overwrite the buff from siphon (or would be prevented, I'm not sure if that one overwrites) unless it gets a different symbol.
This is a very minor issue since, at least in my experience, I don't see a whole lot of chi siphoning going on in TW/NW/PK, at least not where someone isn't immediately purging it back off (IE veno uses lvl 10 siphon, drains opponent's chi and gains for self, then purges chi gain off opponent)
Also, I think Sage HF now works the same way, if a bm could confirm.xSonOfCircex-105/103/102 Sage Wiz
DrakeEmpress-101/102/103 Sage Cleric
Gaygasm-101/101/101 Sage Stormbringer
Because I can't stand playing melee classes0 -
XSonOfCircex - Sanctuary wrote: »While that would work without issues for the most part, it would overwrite the buff from siphon (or would be prevented, I'm not sure if that one overwrites) unless it gets a different symbol.
This is a very minor issue since, at least in my experience, I don't see a whole lot of chi siphoning going on in TW/NW/PK, at least not where someone isn't immediately purging it back off (IE veno uses lvl 10 siphon, drains opponent's chi and gains for self, then purges chi gain off opponent)
Also, I think Sage HF now works the same way, if a bm could confirm.
Sage BM, can confirm it works like that, but can also confirm it cannot get purged.
Though on the thread issue I have the same issue with all my sage skills as well. Since sage BM is pretty chi centered it would be nice to get this fix...It is said that apple pie is best served Al La Mode, so if you are the pie, consider me your ice cream.0 -
sage GS and Myriad have this issue can confirm those[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
TY Silvy for Epic Sig
- Sage BM 0.87aps and loving it
youtube.com/channel/UCaZIAPCmpfzSc1ly3mbhjdg
pwcalc.com/ec23068c36b42d0d somewhere close0 -
Sage mystic's Bramble Tornado works fine so that can be cross off the list.0
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Confirming that Psychic Sage Red Tide has same issue.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Fashionista wife of Sayphat b:cute
New name is Shiirahoshi0 -
I forgot who suggested it, but it would also solve the problem if a non-purgeable buff is applied to give back the sparks 1 second after the skill is casted.
I suggested it in a previous thread on the topic.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Fryvorg - Sanctuary wrote: »Mystic's Cragglord (?)
Just plain doesn't work, but already reported to and noted by a GM, in another threadb:pleasedb:pleasedb:pleased0 -
Thanks for your responses, I updated the list.
And Fissile's suggestion may beat two birds with one stone, as it seems! Well, in the end the devs will decide how they are going to fix it...Cyrusdesu - Sanctuary wrote: »Sage mystic's Bramble Tornado works fine so that can be cross off the list.
Keep it coming b:thanksWorld is full of illusions.
________________________
What if I played a Cleric?
________________________
All Joy In Keeping Us Medically Energetic.0 -
Fryvorg - Sanctuary wrote: »
I know that's pedantry, but we are talking about only 30 chi here... Have you tried if it ever works with full chi, for example?
Your right I haven't. b:surrender
Seems you were right about it not working at max chi, technically Sage Bramble Tornado effect stops working when chi point is at 3 sparks and 70 chi. b:surrender0
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