Demon/Sage skills with effect to consume less sparks don't work as claimed

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Fryvorg - Sanctuary
Fryvorg - Sanctuary Posts: 299 Arc User
edited April 2013 in Quality Corner
As reaction on XSonOfCircex's post about that issue, I want to confirm this during my testing phase and make an own thread about it.

Problem:
This issue is connected with every Demon or Sage skill that has a chance to consume less sparks than the original lv. 10 version of it, which are mostly sage. I have experienced it with Cleric's Sage Tempest that normally takes two sparks, but with a chance of 50% it takes only one.
However, it doesn't work properly if your chi is higher than 3 sparks, as it is programmed that it would first give the spark at a chance of 50% and then always takes the 2 sparks the skill needs. Thus, if your chi is higher than 300 (your highest is 399), the chi bar will get full without getting the whole spark back, and then take the 2 sparks away, which would result in less chi then it should be.

Example:
My current chi is 350 (3 1/2 sparks). I cast sage Tempest and I am lucky and the sage effect is activated. So I would get 1 spark, but as my max chi can only be 399, I am only granted 49 of it. Then the 2 sparks will be taken away, so I end up with 199 chi, although if it worked as it should, I would still have 250 chi. So in the end, the skill consumed 151 chi instead of 100, although the sage effect proced. With full chi you will never encounter the skill consuming only one spark, but always two.

Solution:
It would be pretty simple to fix this: Just turn the effect around, so it first takes two sparks and then give 1 spark back at the given chance.

Exemplified Summary:
1. Log in with a Lv. 99+ Cleric
2. Learn the Cleric skill "Tempest" and max it out to the sage version.
3. Use Tempest when you have more than 3 sparks.
4. Every time the sage effect kicks in, you will have less than 2 sparks, making you lose more than 1 spark still.


This is also related to skills that normally cost one spark, but have a chance to cast it without consuming it.

Skills that have this issue:
(The following list hasn't been completely verified yet, all entries I haven't tested or haven't been confirmed by others yet are marked with a question mark)

Sage
Blademaster's Mage Bane
Blademaster's Piercing Winds
Blademaster's Drake Bash
Blademaster's Vacuous Palm
Blademaster's Myriad Sword Stance
Blademaster's Glacial Spike
Wizard's Blade Tempest
Wizard's Mountain's Seize
Cleric's Siren's Kiss
Cleric's Tempest
Venomancer's Parasitic Nova (?)
Venomancer's Lending Hand (?)
Venomancer's Stunning Blow (?)
Assasin's Headhunt (?)
Psychic's Red Tide
Psychic's Earth Vector (?)
Mytic's Bramble Tornado

Demon
Wizard's Black Ice Dragon Strike (?)
Barbarian's Firestorm (?)
Psychic's Psychic Will (?)
Seeker's Voidstep (?)
Mystic's Cragglord
World is full of illusions.
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Post edited by Fryvorg - Sanctuary on

Comments

  • Zsw - Dreamweaver
    Zsw - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,087 Arc User
    edited April 2013
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    One reason that the developers may have made the skill work this way could be due to the way the server handles skills. The server probably handles it in the order of Channel > Cast > Apply Effects, Damage > Drain Chi, Mana, Cooldown, where the chi, mana and cooldown are handled separately as opposed to being a part of the effect of the skill.

    I forgot who suggested it, but it would also solve the problem if a non-purgeable buff is applied to give back the sparks 1 second after the skill is casted.
    Zsw -104 Sage Assassin
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  • XSonOfCircex - Sanctuary
    XSonOfCircex - Sanctuary Posts: 1,173 Arc User
    edited April 2013
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    Zsw - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    One reason that the developers may have made the skill work this way could be due to the way the server handles skills. The server probably handles it in the order of Channel > Cast > Apply Effects, Damage > Drain Chi, Mana, Cooldown, where the chi, mana and cooldown are handled separately as opposed to being a part of the effect of the skill.

    I forgot who suggested it, but it would also solve the problem if a non-purgeable buff is applied to give back the sparks 1 second after the skill is casted.

    While that would work without issues for the most part, it would overwrite the buff from siphon (or would be prevented, I'm not sure if that one overwrites) unless it gets a different symbol.

    This is a very minor issue since, at least in my experience, I don't see a whole lot of chi siphoning going on in TW/NW/PK, at least not where someone isn't immediately purging it back off (IE veno uses lvl 10 siphon, drains opponent's chi and gains for self, then purges chi gain off opponent)

    Also, I think Sage HF now works the same way, if a bm could confirm.
    xSonOfCircex-105/103/102 Sage Wiz
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  • Saethos - Raging Tide
    Saethos - Raging Tide Posts: 1,239 Arc User
    edited April 2013
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    XSonOfCircex - Sanctuary wrote: »
    While that would work without issues for the most part, it would overwrite the buff from siphon (or would be prevented, I'm not sure if that one overwrites) unless it gets a different symbol.

    This is a very minor issue since, at least in my experience, I don't see a whole lot of chi siphoning going on in TW/NW/PK, at least not where someone isn't immediately purging it back off (IE veno uses lvl 10 siphon, drains opponent's chi and gains for self, then purges chi gain off opponent)

    Also, I think Sage HF now works the same way, if a bm could confirm.

    Sage BM, can confirm it works like that, but can also confirm it cannot get purged.

    Though on the thread issue I have the same issue with all my sage skills as well. Since sage BM is pretty chi centered it would be nice to get this fix...
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  • Ladyblondeh - Raging Tide
    Ladyblondeh - Raging Tide Posts: 163 Arc User
    edited April 2013
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    sage GS and Myriad have this issue can confirm those
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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    pwcalc.com/ec23068c36b42d0d somewhere close
  • Cyrusdesu - Sanctuary
    Cyrusdesu - Sanctuary Posts: 22 Arc User
    edited April 2013
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    Sage mystic's Bramble Tornado works fine so that can be cross off the list.
  • _Jibrille_ - Heavens Tear
    _Jibrille_ - Heavens Tear Posts: 90 Arc User
    edited April 2013
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    Confirming that Psychic Sage Red Tide has same issue.
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  • Fissile - Archosaur
    Fissile - Archosaur Posts: 607 Arc User
    edited April 2013
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    I forgot who suggested it, but it would also solve the problem if a non-purgeable buff is applied to give back the sparks 1 second after the skill is casted.

    I suggested it in a previous thread on the topic.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Synta - Dreamweaver
    Synta - Dreamweaver Posts: 231 Arc User
    edited April 2013
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    Fryvorg - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Mystic's Cragglord (?)

    Just plain doesn't work, but already reported to and noted by a GM, in another thread
    b:pleasedb:pleasedb:pleased
  • Fryvorg - Sanctuary
    Fryvorg - Sanctuary Posts: 299 Arc User
    edited April 2013
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    Thanks for your responses, I updated the list.

    And Fissile's suggestion may beat two birds with one stone, as it seems! Well, in the end the devs will decide how they are going to fix it...
    Cyrusdesu - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Sage mystic's Bramble Tornado works fine so that can be cross off the list.
    I know that's pedantry, but we are talking about only 30 chi here... Have you tried if it ever works with full chi, for example?

    Keep it coming b:thanks
    World is full of illusions.
    ________________________

    What if I played a Cleric?
    ________________________

    All Joy In Keeping Us Medically Energetic.
  • Cyrusdesu - Sanctuary
    Cyrusdesu - Sanctuary Posts: 22 Arc User
    edited April 2013
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    Fryvorg - Sanctuary wrote: »

    I know that's pedantry, but we are talking about only 30 chi here... Have you tried if it ever works with full chi, for example?

    Your right I haven't. b:surrender

    Seems you were right about it not working at max chi, technically Sage Bramble Tornado effect stops working when chi point is at 3 sparks and 70 chi. b:surrender

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