PvE sin - g13/g15 dagger dilema

Kubu - Momaganon
Kubu - Momaganon Posts: 11 Arc User
edited April 2013 in Assassin
Hello,
I'm rolling sin - full pve demon setup.
I wanted g15 with 2x -int or 1x -int and GoF
Lost over 1000 raps and didn't get any of these.
Shall I try more or give up, put g15 daggers in my banker stash, make new g13 daggers.
Use g13 daggers and be 5.0 aps until I farm g16 mold and badges.
I'd use old g15 daggs to make g16 and I could still use g13 in case of not getting interval on g16.

So:
Save g15 and make g13 for PvE farming now
or
Try to reroll g15 until I get 2x int OR 1x int and GoF?


Advice needed.
Post edited by Kubu - Momaganon on

Comments

  • Tsyn - Raging Tide
    Tsyn - Raging Tide Posts: 149 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    Imo I'd just farm the tome 1st. 4aps G15 isn't that bad. Then you'd be 5aps G15 and able to farm your G16. If it got int, gz, 5aps. If not, 4aps, still okay, farm more. Either way you'll need the tome sooner or later, so might as well get it 1st.
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  • Oups_Dead - Harshlands
    Oups_Dead - Harshlands Posts: 101 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    actually 4 aps r8 sins aren't bad either :P but now that raps r so cheap nvm !
  • Typhyse - Sanctuary
    Typhyse - Sanctuary Posts: 3,469 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    Oups_Dead - Harshlands wrote: »
    actually 4 aps r8 sins aren't bad either :P but now that raps r so cheap nvm !
    I actually still see r8 sins and go 'WTMF?!?" every time I see them. Only excuse is +10-12
    r8 for PvP, otherwise gtfo.
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  • WnbTank - Archosaur
    WnbTank - Archosaur Posts: 1,472 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    Typhyse - Sanctuary wrote: »
    I actually still see r8 sins and go 'WTMF?!?" every time I see them. Only excuse is +10-12
    r8 for PvP, otherwise gtfo.

    R8 4aps has higher DPS than Barrier Thorns 5aps. And like you said, higher DPH making them, least to me, obvious choice over G13. As raps are priced like dirt these days, think we are 40-45k/rap on Archo atm, renders the point sorta moot as nobody should roll with Barrier Thorns anymore but go for G15/G16 or R9, which will beat R8.
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  • loopingers
    loopingers Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    WnbTank - Archosaur wrote: »
    R8 4aps has higher DPS than Barrier Thorns 5aps. And like you said, higher DPH making them, least to me, obvious choice over G13. As raps are priced like dirt these days, think we are 40-45k/rap on Archo atm, renders the point sorta moot as nobody should roll with Barrier Thorns anymore but go for G15/G16 or R9, which will beat R8.

    I rather disagree with this, math wise r8 is similar to dps of barrier thorns. but for almost any sin who isn't either cash shopping or has a main supporting there gear. G13 will give a much higher dps for a much lower price since they won't need a tome. And to go to g15/16 without a tome and loosing the aps of g13 not only can end up lowering your dmg but also your survivability with the loss of ability to spark as often.

    And all in all. I just can't really understand why someone would choose to be 4 aps r8 for similar dps compared to 5 aps g13. Just in playing 5 aps is far more convenient in ability to boost dmg with subsea/powerdash and maintain your perma spark better.
  • Walpurga - Dreamweaver
    Walpurga - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,028 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    http://pwcalc.com/83d1fe4cc726a2eb

    Your typical G13 sin, with a lot better sharding on armor than most

    Yea, R8 looks a lot better on paper but remember, it's a holdover. It should suffice for WS with some effort, enough so that you can get your G16 and go straight to G16. Again, the chi problem between 4 and 5 APS: 25% more chi per second is amazing if you're starting out, undergeared and NEED to constantly spark to survive.

    I mean most sins don't have the gear to do WS like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xJZoTee7Ok
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  • Salari - Raging Tide
    Salari - Raging Tide Posts: 2,102 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    If you are just farming, G15 with Att Lvl and int would be fine, or just int and decent add's. You really do not need zerk for farming. Zerk is nice but without proper refines on armor and the dagger, you will have a hard time surviving from the hp loss. 1k raps is a bit much for rerolling, thats 100m+. With the odd's of getting int on G16, it would have been cheaper(mainly the price of reroll's)

    As for the R8 vs everything else comments....

    GoF and Sac aside(and now warsoul) R8 is one of the highest DPH daggers in the game. R8 will always have a higher DPH than G13 and will mostly(if not always) our DPS g13 at any refine if you have a tome. This is just not estimated math, it is from real world (in game) testing. I have a set of R8 +11 daggers with 2x +75 patt shards. In all the farming instances I have done(Niv,TT,FB89/99) I have yet to have any G13 sin that could pull agro away from me even briefly when I was @ 4aps and only a handfull could pull from me when I was @ 3.33. Ofcourse this has alot to do with my build as well. Having nearly full DoT's gives an additive advantage that most g13's sins will not have.

    The highest PVE crit I ever had in the game was with my R8 Daggers, with the right add's I am sure I could exceed that with my G16 Niv's, but I am contempt with the add's I have... 2x int and range


    The main advantage R8 has over g13 is its 2x patt +185 and 4% crit over g13's 1% crit and int. R8 is practicably free for a aps sin as they need R8 for the int on chest and is a all around great weapon to farm with and end game for all the classes in general.

    Yes we now have g16 niv and r9s3 and easily farmable warsong but aside morai g15 you will not find a better all around weapon. Speaking of Morai, the G15's have the ability to get near R9/G15 power and will have a great boost from DoT'd gear. This is a great farming weapon as well.

    3.33 vs 4 v 5 aps

    You can farm 3-x, and other instances @ 3.33 aps just as well as you can at 5aps. The only difference is chi and damage per spark. If you have a solid build you should not have many problems, use your skills, apo and genie and you will be fine. The main thing you need to worry about when farming is surviving. Using damage amplifying skills is nice but is just an added perk at being 4+ aps. You can still use skills like those @ 3.33 but you need to be ready for stun's debuff's and all.

    Thanks for reading my wall of text and good luck

    b:bye
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    DEMHEALSMAN - Dreamweaver
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  • Deadalus - Harshlands
    Deadalus - Harshlands Posts: 546 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    I have to agree with you, Salari, that r8 daggers are quiet good for the price they have.
    when you go r8 and dont use the daggers, you really need g15 or g16 daggers to out dd them.

    But in some cases, having high APS is better then having less APS but more DPH which comes to more DPS.
    This is just the Chi, you gain. r8 Dagger at 4aps, this is fine, but 3.33 wont give you much room, when you could spark and save your life.
    Sure, inner harmony is an option, but that on the other hand, cancels the next option out: Using either subsea or power dash to increase the damage you deal, especially as an opening move with dragon, where the boss can fall within one spark using powerdash.

    I was like this, i had r8 daggers at 3.33aps and got g13 nirvana daggers and was at 5aps then. it doesnt deal too much damage or it was weaker then r8, but the chi gain was waay better and got me all the options i have now. also i had +5 r8 daggers and compared them to +7 g13 which deal less damage per hit.

    So, i would say, its a personal thing, if you go for more chi management, go g13, when you want more damage, go r8.
    But when you really think about it... g16 is way better, not really expensive and even without int, it out dd r8 daggers easy.

    So?
  • Salari - Raging Tide
    Salari - Raging Tide Posts: 2,102 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    Oh I do agree with you, if you have the option g16 niv is the all around best option over R8, and G13/15. If you get lucky like I did and get double or even triple int, that opens alot of doors defense wise. Just add a int tome and you can get better orns or orns and a better cape. You can even start thinking of R8R or G15 wrists or both. With the release of R8R ,3 cast niv, and now NW alot of doors have opened for not only sins but all classes. A way cheaper, and farmable method over R9.
    Marine - Marshall - Raging Tides - Retired
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    DEMHEALSMAN - Dreamweaver
    Yes, because people really need 900+ dex or 1000+ magic just for the lulz
  • Sakubatou - Sanctuary
    Sakubatou - Sanctuary Posts: 4,001 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    loopingers wrote: »
    I rather disagree with this, math wise r8 is similar to dps of barrier thorns. but for almost any sin who isn't either cash shopping or has a main supporting there gear. G13 will give a much higher dps for a much lower price since they won't need a tome. And to go to g15/16 without a tome and loosing the aps of g13 not only can end up lowering your dmg but also your survivability with the loss of ability to spark as often.

    And all in all. I just can't really understand why someone would choose to be 4 aps r8 for similar dps compared to 5 aps g13. Just in playing 5 aps is far more convenient in ability to boost dmg with subsea/powerdash and maintain your perma spark better.

    R8 4 aps and G13 5 aps have almost identical DPH. G13s are more expensive daggers, R8 4 aps require a tome but the daggers have almost zero cost because you want r8 chest anyways. So if you already have a tome then r8 is probably the way to go and just skip G13s. Go R8->G15->G16 or R8->r9

    G13 have a very low base damage, but refine well. R8 has an awesome base damage but refine poorly and will out DD G13 until +10 refines where G13 catchup and pass r8 by like 1% dps, even though r8 still have about 25% more dph.

    But the real reason G13 daggers are almost a waste is the tome expense is part of endgame. You need a tome to have decent aps with G15, R9, and G16s, all of which annihilate G13s and r8. So by going r8 and getting a tome early you avoid wasting raps on G13s and have your tome ready for r9, G15, or G16s.

    This of course all was a larger issue when raps were 1.3m though.
    Seven 100+ characters leveled the hard way. Free to play. Mystic, Psychic, and Wizard left to level. b:victory
  • SunDownXIII - Dreamweaver
    SunDownXIII - Dreamweaver Posts: 250 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    g16s are great daggers even without the extra int. im a poor player and havent farmed my tome yet. I was using my r8s for a very long time until i finally farmed the g13s (non nw). pretty much saw a huge difference in dph but having perma-spark was awesome. Finally saw what the fuss was all about. Later on I roll my g13s and made a set of g16s and landed double mag LOL. Thought my world had come to an end.

    I had lost my 5.0 and now i wasnt sparking as before... but yet, i was hitting a bit harder. So i felt like i was using R8s all over again but with a nice boost... Farmed a few more badges rerolled them again and got dex, vit and hp. LOL unlucky i guess... but honestly the dex increases my damage by a nice number (thanks to my high dex tome). Honestly I enjoy the extra hp and after making those puppies +5 i really enjoy these daggers and dont really touch a new set of g13s i made when i thought my world had ended.

    Im able to tank better with those g16s than my g13s but chi is sometimes an issue as stated by a few people above. but havent really missed it. Currently i think a tome would be great and if im able to get int on these badboys its gonna be really great. i just hope i dont get x1 int and x2 mag again xD.

    I would rather get super lucky and get x3 int so i dont have to get that stupid over priced tome...
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