Remove/Limit NW Squads?

Pwnallagain - Heavens Tear
Pwnallagain - Heavens Tear Posts: 206 Arc User
edited April 2013 in Nation Wars
From my experiences in NW since it began, a couple squads are able to decide which nation always wins. These highly overpowered squads are able to ensure victory almost everytime, which seems absurb but it is true at least on HT server. If two of these squads get put on the same nation it ends up with 1 nation baselocking literally all 3 nations. There is an easy solution to this: Remove squads or limit them to two or three people. What would you think if PWI was to institute something like that?
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Post edited by Pwnallagain - Heavens Tear on
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Comments

  • Angel_Spawn - Sanctuary
    Angel_Spawn - Sanctuary Posts: 3,034 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    This has been discussed over an over, best geared players will QQ they need squads for easy mode to faceroll every battle they encounter, 10 best geared players in a squad can pretty much dictate the outcome of every battle, win fast then onwards to the next battle only good thing about NW is that not all from the squad can get in a battle, it gets filled fast with people, but still even a few from the same squad can give devastating results.

    Squading should be removed before entering to sort out that 1 nation pretty much has the top players, squad when you enter with random people if you need squads so badly, it`s hard to fight 1 OP player, not to mention several in 1 battle!
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  • Kniraven - Lost City
    Kniraven - Lost City Posts: 2,620 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    This should be moved to either the Nation Wars subsection or the Suggestion Box.


    You're wrong,
    Squadding is the only thing allowing people to beat those squads you refer to.

    Even if squads were removed, they would still use nation chat to figure out who else was there and would group together.

    If you remove the element of organization, strategy, and teamwork between lesser geared players then battles really will become a matter of gear difference.
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  • TheDendra - Harshlands
    TheDendra - Harshlands Posts: 222 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    rofl players in pwi are so far behind that they complain about premades in pvp farming instances. Hilarious. Well I guess every game has noobs crying how this or that is unfair.
  • Vedovis - Lost City
    Vedovis - Lost City Posts: 942 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    No thanks. I like being in a squad for NW - and considering standard "endgame gear" mine isn't particularly strong. Take away squads and you'd have OP people in each nation teaming up to pick off the weaker ones.. at least in squads, you can form strategies and organise wars efficiently. No squads in NW would only benefit already OP players.
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  • titotit
    titotit Posts: 187 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    Honestly imma good chap but when you see dumbass post like these u stop to wonder, Ur QQ'ing about not being in the same level as people who put a butt load of their money in the game. If they pay they deserve to be better and if That bothers you, S T F U and gear up!


    From the words of the Great One, "Just Bring It".

    Also you should rethink your Poll and put an option under "Or should I G T F O?"
  • Apostasy - Raging Tide
    Apostasy - Raging Tide Posts: 1,197 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    although the new map really seems to take care of the real issues faced versus the "OP squads"... ill add to your poll options list....

    You forgot : 6 member squads (as before the 10 sqads came around)

    I think some people would back this up, and this would also spread out the "OP people" that cry about not being able to find good battles. How the **** do they really expect to find good battles with 10 r9+d geared members in a squad? Go solo if you want good battles b:chuckle
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  • Angel_Spawn - Sanctuary
    Angel_Spawn - Sanctuary Posts: 3,034 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    In addition to NW, why the f*** PVE players are forced to pvp in order to obtain items exclusively only if you fight against another players, they should introduce other means of obtaining the tokens for those people who cannot attend NW due to timezone differences (and don`t give us your **** it - go to another server).

    Let`s say 2x per week like NW via a quest or a chain of quests regardless of time when you can do them and get at least some tokens would be fair to everybody.
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  • SylenThunder - Twilight Temple
    SylenThunder - Twilight Temple Posts: 7,908
    edited March 2013
    The only real purpose being in a squad has served most people is to allow for easier communication between players not in vent/mumble. Once you've done a few battles, it's not likely that your squad will remain in the same territory.
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  • Vetrobor - Raging Tide
    Vetrobor - Raging Tide Posts: 21 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    The way I see it, NW needs some tweaks, but not too much.

    First, let people in as single, no squads.

    Second, when already inside, allow squads within
    same Nation only.

    And then if "top players" are in different Nations
    and still want to group together without squadding
    each other, then let them do it.

    It's only a game. :)
  • Xainou - Sanctuary
    Xainou - Sanctuary Posts: 5,369 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    Unless you remove the abilty to squad altogether, it's gonna end up doing zero.

    And even then, what keeps these people from communicating and still going the same way...
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  • MagicEmpress - Lost City
    MagicEmpress - Lost City Posts: 795 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    Maybe single (non-squad) players should enter after getting pass and use that 10 mins before war starts to make squads inside.

    New team mates every week! b:thanks
  • HrunsPanda - Archosaur
    HrunsPanda - Archosaur Posts: 1,136 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    I havent done any form of PvP before and thus no nation war.

    If i'd design something like this however, i would make it impossible to join the whole thing as a squad. Enable squad creating up to 6 when you all got randomly inside.
    Have the instance randomly spread players over the instance by assigning the players an invisible ranking. First based on their equipment, after they get experience, based on their past NW results as well as equipment.

    But ill see what its all about in a month when im home again :)
  • MistaBwanden - Sanctuary
    MistaBwanden - Sanctuary Posts: 2,803 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    Fine the way it is, leave it.


    Also, is there not another forum area for this type of discussion?
  • Annalyse - Heavens Tear
    Annalyse - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,618 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    Angel_Spawn - Sanctuary wrote: »
    In addition to NW, why the f*** PVE players are forced to pvp in order to obtain items exclusively only if you fight against another players, they should introduce other means of obtaining the tokens for those people who cannot attend NW due to timezone differences (and don`t give us your **** it - go to another server).

    Let`s say 2x per week like NW via a quest or a chain of quests regardless of time when you can do them and get at least some tokens would be fair to everybody.

    Agreed. I really wish there was an alternative for PvE players; something that you couldn't take if you had taken the quest to enter NW, I guess.

    Or at least make supply tokens themselves tradeable. Right now I have to farm other things to buy my mats, but I can't ever do things like necklace engraving.

    Also, as others have pointed out... there is a Nation Wars subforum. But I guess a mod will move this soon enough.
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  • Decus - Dreamweaver
    Decus - Dreamweaver Posts: 5,033 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    MistaBwanden - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Fine the way it is, leave it.


    Also, is there not another forum area for this type of discussion?

    Bingo. Agreed on both counts!
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  • bluestuffzzz
    bluestuffzzz Posts: 627 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    Kniraven - Lost City wrote: »
    This should be moved to either the Nation Wars subsection or the Suggestion Box.


    You're wrong,
    Squadding is the only thing allowing people to beat those squads you refer to.

    Even if squads were removed, they would still use nation chat to figure out who else was there and would group together.

    If you remove the element of organization, strategy, and teamwork between lesser geared players then battles really will become a matter of gear difference.

    This.

    I'm reasonably geared for not being a CS player (two toons w/ 3rd stage nirvana +7, cube neck, warsong belt, etc & +10 3rd stage axes and +10 2nd stage axes w/ zerk, all demon skills, etc).

    It takes an entire squad's cooperation of players equal to my gear to gank and successfully kill a r9 3rd stage +12 player. How OP. They might as well be 200 levels above my level, because they were allowed to use a credit card to win. They hit 20-30k AoE crits and wipe 20 people off in one hit. 20 VS 5, and they win (they are the 5).

    So, while not having squads may stop stuff like this (though, I have doubts), the coordination of players like myself w/ a squad of non-r9 3rd stage peeps would be impossible.
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  • luckycut
    luckycut Posts: 46 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    The person who made the post is correct. On the arch server NW is not competitive at all usually the winner is decided with the first hour. The other 3 nations are playing for chump change. This is directly PWI fault an here's how but not properly dividing the OP squads to all nations. I don't believe whether we going in there squad-ed or not makes a difference, but what I do see is one nation regularly getting thee best squads an running rough shod over the map. Sadly this is a lack of competitiveness from pwi that has been lacking for some time. The person writing about issues with nation wars is correct also, the flaw being in the way the instance is made is the flaw, It doesn't lead too a competitive Nation War for I have only seen 1 on the Archosaur server in the time Nation Wars has been online.
  • Reliea - Sanctuary
    Reliea - Sanctuary Posts: 685 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    I like making a squad with friends, so we don't accidentally destroy each other, but I still voted to remove the squad option.

    It would be more challenging, for everyone, that way.

    Though I am very happy with the update to the NW map, even when my nation is getting wrecked there still hasn't been any baselock significant enough to stop people from getting out somewhere, and that is possibly the best change that the devs could have given us to date.
  • Zsw - Dreamweaver
    Zsw - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,087 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    Without squads, no one is gonna get the flag in 99.9% of the fights. The reason why one or two op squad dominates is because 99% of the people won't get the flag as is.

    I literally been in 20v6 fights where my squad was the only ones who cared that the opposition had the flag.
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  • Bhavyy - Raging Tide
    Bhavyy - Raging Tide Posts: 1,083 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    the fact is here that i could vote anything but its not going to make a difference.
    Get used to having squads and learn to QQless..
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  • BungaSakura - Raging Tide
    BungaSakura - Raging Tide Posts: 902 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    the way i see it now is if u squad with OP ppl, u will get more less point. So many land, and people spread all over the map. so they barely get decent NW, which is barely give good point on each fight. idc if squad or no tho :)
  • Apostasy - Raging Tide
    Apostasy - Raging Tide Posts: 1,197 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    Zsw - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Without squads, no one is gonna get the flag in 99.9% of the fights. The reason why one or two op squad dominates is because 99% of the people won't get the flag as is.

    I literally been in 20v6 fights where my squad was the only ones who cared that the opposition had the flag.

    people will still grab the flag and run it... i mostly have solo'd nw and ive grabbed the flag at least once per nw, otherwise i back up the flagger, run ahead a bit and stun the way open where i can...
    BungaSakura - Raging Tide wrote: »
    the way i see it now is if u squad with OP ppl, u will get more less point. So many land, and people spread all over the map. so they barely get decent NW, which is barely give good point on each fight. idc if squad or no tho :)

    people cant find good battles cause they dont know how to read the map. if ya know how to read the map, there are PLENTY of good battles to be had...
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  • Teseanna - Heavens Tear
    Teseanna - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,021 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    Pwnallagain - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    From my experiences in NW since it began, a couple squads are able to decide which nation always wins. These highly overpowered squads are able to ensure victory almost everytime, which seems absurb but it is true at least on HT server. If two of these squads get put on the same nation it ends up with 1 nation baselocking literally all 3 nations. There is an easy solution to this: Remove squads or limit them to two or three people. What would you think if PWI was to institute something like that?

    Friggin plus one.

    Not that i have a problem getting tokens, always get 100+
    But maybe it will help balance things out.

    I squad with my GF by the way....no vent needed i just smack her if she does something dumb :)
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  • BungaSakura - Raging Tide
    BungaSakura - Raging Tide Posts: 902 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    Apostasy - Raging Tide wrote: »
    people cant find good battles cause they dont know how to read the map. if ya know how to read the map, there are PLENTY of good battles to be had...

    Hm... OP squad is always care land lock. u will get good battle BUT is not like before, getting hard to land lock and less people in base. still u get less point :)
  • burningsweetfire
    burningsweetfire Posts: 142 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    So you want to stop me from going with my friends to NW? This ruins communication and teamwork like we already had this problem... I like going to NW with my friends, makes everything less stressful and fun, but you want to "fair" and take that away?

    Quit your QQing and find your squad to go with, or friends that will go with you, it's your fault for going solo. NW is fine the way it is, quit trying to break it for your own cause.
  • Wickedbrew - Raging Tide
    Wickedbrew - Raging Tide Posts: 856 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    There was a time I would have agreed to limiting, or getting rid of squads in NW, but not anymore.

    Yeah the op squads are op. 2 or 3 op people in a squad will still use me as a mop. A single op player, the same...I'm one/two shot fodder for most of them. Even if there are no squads, they will still use vent, or like programs, to communicate, will still wipe out the majority of the playerbase, and given credit where credit is due, most are good at what they do. They have been PKing for ages, most know their toons, and could probably play with their eyes closed.

    But most importantly, the ones that squad together, have probably become good friends as well, so do I want to be a catalyst that puts a wedge in their fun? No.

    A squad of R9 recasts, of 10, 5, 3, 2, in a squad,or none, no matter how you look at it, is still going to destroy most of us, and personally, I like squadding with my non op friends. We still have fun.
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  • Colum - Raging Tide
    Colum - Raging Tide Posts: 1,696 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    Keep the squads.
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  • Wampirewoman - Harshlands
    Wampirewoman - Harshlands Posts: 269 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    Why this topic AGAIN?
    Also check the poll results till now....says a lot .
    I will never understand why PVE qq's so much ... no instance in this game requires u that kind of OP gears . And if u think to say TW ....no way i will believe that since TW is organized PVP with strategy and much more that is way on another level compared to NW and doesn't include pure PVE people , that QQ about this for 10000......000000 time .
  • Star_Prism - Archosaur
    Star_Prism - Archosaur Posts: 216 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    I don't think letting people squad before hand works and not just because it creates unbalance by letting a bunch of op players into one nation; but it also makes it harder to work together. This is something that happened a couple weeks ago with me:

    I ended up in a battle with 4 on our side and 1 on the opponent. He was an R9 seeker. I knew that we needed to work together to go against him so I repeatedly asked in battle chat for all 4 of us to squad together. No one responded. After running into a few of the people in the battle I tried to invite but was unable to because they were already in a squad. We had managed to cap the flag once and so had he; but he was able to hold the battle long enough for more help to arrive from his side. And now we were facing 15, needless to say we lost the battle.

    If people could not enter already in a squad I think they would be more willing to join a random one. We could have won that battle had everyone been willing to work together.
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  • Zsw - Dreamweaver
    Zsw - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,087 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    Star_Prism - Archosaur wrote: »
    I don't think letting people squad before hand works and not just because it creates unbalance by letting a bunch of op players into one nation; but it also makes it harder to work together. This is something that happened a couple weeks ago with me:

    I ended up in a battle with 4 on our side and 1 on the opponent. He was an R9 seeker. I knew that we needed to work together to go against him so I repeatedly asked in battle chat for all 4 of us to squad together. No one responded. After running into a few of the people in the battle I tried to invite but was unable to because they were already in a squad. We had managed to cap the flag once and so had he; but he was able to hold the battle long enough for more help to arrive from his side. And now we were facing 15, needless to say we lost the battle.

    If people could not enter already in a squad I think they would be more willing to join a random one. We could have won that battle had everyone been willing to work together.

    Problem was that the 4 of you had a squad and still went soloing. If you 4 have a squad, then stick with your squad.

    Also, if they won't respond to you in battle chat, they're not going to work with you in a squad anyway.
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