A call to all Clerics: The Medic need Immediate Medical Attention
ogunernile
Posts: 99 Arc User
okay so 3 expansions and 4 update later, they made strides in trying to even things out but alas, certain classes still arent attractive for purposes of 1v1 pk. seekers made great strides thanks to sacrfifical slash+quid pro quo. and barbs can finally tank to levels unheard making them near impossible to kill in 1v1. but what about the less popular classes? such mystics, who are still lacking severely, clerics and venos.
i have read AzzAzin's guide to pk with a cleric but he fails to mention how do you deal with overly long cool downs, limited attack choices, pathetic damage which only gets worse when att levels are added in, and the lowest defense of all the classes. for instance if i do 100 points of damage and you do 1000 and we both have 20 att levels then for your 20 att lvls you would be gaining x10 as much damage as i would.
i have understood form the start a cleric's life is a hard on this game..and i remained faithful to the class and the game designers by patiently waiting for improvement, building my gear and honing my skill to become the best pk cleric on my server. but honestly being the best pk cleric in a group of top notch players is like being the best mosquito at a pond of frogs. you still get eaten alive.
my question is this will pwi ever make classes balanced at 1v1 pk? clerics in particular and secondly why is it that the US and Euro teams have no say so in the development. Seriously, if China would just learn to share..i mean simple things the western games do the eastern games seem not to..
Here are some, please feel free to add
Make betas..get feed back from your players
Encourge people to make all the classes...dont make the game class specific as it has been ever since the raging tides expansion, by making it so the crappiest class can have a successful strategy for success vs any of the others. even with the morai skills a cleric cant do squat vs a 3r9 archer seeker or barb in equal gear played by someone of equal skill. that gets frustrating especialy when people get bored because they know they can tank whatever you dish out and still 1 or 2 shot you.
have more GM involvement...how would this help? if gm's are actually given the power to make suggestions as to the design and prograsmming of the game coupled with real time in-game experience, you would see a host of other issues come to light that are currently ignored. [for instance the rubber banding issue affects you when the purify proc on your wpn goes off, and there's that whole ghost casting issue]
make efforts to make this less of a cookie cutter gear rules game...if you wanna have a easy 'i'm king of hill' time out at west archo you better be a barb, and archer, a psy or now a seeker. that's less than half the choices available. c'mon guys you can do better. for the support classes, let em do a lil more damage. the support classes are for support yes but in every other MMORPG i have played support classes have a win strategy for 1v1. here clerics and mystics still can't do squat in pk. enough already.
i was told by a dev [after much cross referencing and research to acquire a number in china, lol] that i should stick to the forum as this is where the look for ideas for the game from time to time. so please limit the trolling and let these guys know what you think. it's your game too
Signed,
DisHeartened Healer
i have read AzzAzin's guide to pk with a cleric but he fails to mention how do you deal with overly long cool downs, limited attack choices, pathetic damage which only gets worse when att levels are added in, and the lowest defense of all the classes. for instance if i do 100 points of damage and you do 1000 and we both have 20 att levels then for your 20 att lvls you would be gaining x10 as much damage as i would.
i have understood form the start a cleric's life is a hard on this game..and i remained faithful to the class and the game designers by patiently waiting for improvement, building my gear and honing my skill to become the best pk cleric on my server. but honestly being the best pk cleric in a group of top notch players is like being the best mosquito at a pond of frogs. you still get eaten alive.
my question is this will pwi ever make classes balanced at 1v1 pk? clerics in particular and secondly why is it that the US and Euro teams have no say so in the development. Seriously, if China would just learn to share..i mean simple things the western games do the eastern games seem not to..
Here are some, please feel free to add
Make betas..get feed back from your players
Encourge people to make all the classes...dont make the game class specific as it has been ever since the raging tides expansion, by making it so the crappiest class can have a successful strategy for success vs any of the others. even with the morai skills a cleric cant do squat vs a 3r9 archer seeker or barb in equal gear played by someone of equal skill. that gets frustrating especialy when people get bored because they know they can tank whatever you dish out and still 1 or 2 shot you.
have more GM involvement...how would this help? if gm's are actually given the power to make suggestions as to the design and prograsmming of the game coupled with real time in-game experience, you would see a host of other issues come to light that are currently ignored. [for instance the rubber banding issue affects you when the purify proc on your wpn goes off, and there's that whole ghost casting issue]
make efforts to make this less of a cookie cutter gear rules game...if you wanna have a easy 'i'm king of hill' time out at west archo you better be a barb, and archer, a psy or now a seeker. that's less than half the choices available. c'mon guys you can do better. for the support classes, let em do a lil more damage. the support classes are for support yes but in every other MMORPG i have played support classes have a win strategy for 1v1. here clerics and mystics still can't do squat in pk. enough already.
i was told by a dev [after much cross referencing and research to acquire a number in china, lol] that i should stick to the forum as this is where the look for ideas for the game from time to time. so please limit the trolling and let these guys know what you think. it's your game too
Signed,
DisHeartened Healer
Post edited by ogunernile on
0
Comments
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Cleric is one of scariest class at end game gears, but that's the problem with PWI, the whole btw end game and not end game is so huge that cleric are squishy at not end game while end game it's one of the most OP class.
The only thing I will like them to change it's plume shell cause we need to have a mp charm to use that skill which in my opinion is unfair for a defensive skill to need to buy charm to use it.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
b:dirty "I **** rainbows and love everyone"-Longknife b:cute0 -
i have an end game cleric...still cant do squat vs a barb, seeker or archer if the person is equally geared/skilled.0
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ogunernile wrote: »i have an end game cleric...still cant do squat vs a barb, seeker or archer if the person is equally geared/skilled.
You are R9 third recast +12 full Josd?[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
b:dirty "I **** rainbows and love everyone"-Longknife b:cute0 -
yes and versus an equally geared archer/seeker/barb with a player of equal skill: cleric cd's are too long, heart of steel spells doom, long casting for low damage in comparision to the damage being taken= dead cleric after 20 minutes of fighting on the ropes just to stay alive0
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Endgame cleric is godly in 1v1 pvp. If you're running into issues with cooldowns, consider using ALL the skills available to you.
If I have any complaints is that we don't have an anti-stun.0 -
In my experience a cleric wins vs an equal geared barb. Barbs have only two good attack skills, armageddon and sunder (edit: maybe three: ancestral rage, dmg of that one is ok-ish too). Most barbs are vit-build, so sunder/ancestral rage dmg isn't that high as it could be. And with armageddon they lose half of their HP. A cleric has better 100%-success control skills than a barb and has shields which are almost as good as turtle - but they don't require two sparks like turtle and have a shorter cooldown. A cleric can get rid of debuffs and heal his/herself very fast. A barb without a HP charm is just ****.
Barbs are the most expensive class for pvp because of charm costs.
The only thing a barb is good for in tw or nw is carrying flag/cata. And this causes charm ticks like hell. With all those new skills now (e.g. cleric skill) which ignore dmg reduction, their success rate is even not that high anymore.
Everyone get's a hp barb buff after dieing in nw. But not vanguard spirit (pdef buff of cleric). So a cleric can even make the real big difference in a nw battle, because buffs matter. Also rebuffing after purge is imoportant and cleric can do this even without beeing in squad.
The only reason why clerics are that weak on average is: most of them have very cheap gear and weapon. They are, like venos and mystics, very cheap when it comes to pve. That's why most of them are not forced to gear up. E.g. a cleric with HH90/+4 gear is good enough for a full lunar run. What do ppl expect from a barb nowadays? They expect that they pull at least 30 mobs. Good luck doing this with HH90 gear...0 -
Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands wrote: »Cleric is one of scariest class at end game gears, but that's the problem with PWI, the whole btw end game and not end game is so huge that cleric are squishy at not end game while end game it's one of the most OP class.
The only thing I will like them to change it's plume shell cause we need to have a mp charm to use that skill which in my opinion is unfair for a defensive skill to need to buy charm to use it.
+1 so trueXx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands wrote: »You are R9 third recast +12 full Josd?
yes with nw rings and capeIn my experience a cleric wins vs an equal geared barb. Barbs have only two good attack skills, armageddon and sunder (edit: maybe three: ancestral rage, dmg of that one is ok-ish too). Most barbs are vit-build, so sunder/ancestral rage dmg isn't that high as it could be. And with armageddon they lose half of their HP. A cleric has better 100%-success control skills than a barb and has shields which are almost as good as turtle - but they don't require two sparks like turtle and have a shorter cooldown. A cleric can get rid of debuffs and heal his/herself very fast. A barb without a HP charm is just ****.
Barbs are the most expensive class for pvp because of charm costs.
The only thing a barb is good for in tw or nw is carrying flag/cata. And this causes charm ticks like hell. With all those new skills now (e.g. cleric skill) which ignore dmg reduction, their success rate is even not that high anymore.
Everyone get's a hp barb buff after dieing in nw. But not vanguard spirit (pdef buff of cleric). So a cleric can even make the real big difference in a nw battle, because buffs matter. Also rebuffing after purge is imoportant and cleric can do this even without beeing in squad.
The only reason why clerics are that weak on average is: most of them have very cheap gear and weapon. They are, like venos and mystics, very cheap when it comes to pve. That's why most of them are not forced to gear up. E.g. a cleric with HH90/+4 gear is good enough for a full lunar run. What do ppl expect from a barb nowadays? They expect that they pull at least 30 mobs. Good luck doing this with HH90 gear...
i would agree save one thing...cornered beast.0 -
Ok, Mystics are hardly lacking. Not only is this one class that envelops three others, but end-game a Mystic can completely annihilate the competition. The only thing lacking with the Mystic is the number of people who know how to play the class properly.
Veno's also go some decent skills with Morai. Admittedly, veno's have kind of been pushed to the side some, but this is more because of the players, than any lacking support on the side of the developers. In PvP, there are really three classes that I truly fear end-game. The Mystic, The Veno, The Archer. Barbs and Seekers are annoying to kill, but it can be done. Most Sin's need to re-learn their class to play without the APS crutch.
As for the Clerics.....
It has already been stated that a Cleric can be a devastating force, if played properly. The new Morai skills have only supplemented that even more.
I'll quote myself from another thread.....
Considering that I'm marginally under-geared compared to today's standards, I still manage to hold my own in NW and TW. Once I get my gear up to where I want it, I will be an even more devastating force on the battlefield.SylenThunder - Sanctuary wrote: »Entirely depends on the class and how they are geared. For reference, I am Pure build Demon cleric R8+3 and sharded mostly with level 8 or 9 garnets. (I do have a few citrines)
Archer R9 and knows how to play, I'm dead.
Archer R9 and is a hyper-noob, they're dead in 20-30 seconds.
Archer R8 or less, they're dead in 5-10 seconds.
Assassin R9 and knows how to play, I don't see them, stunlock and then dead. If I see them, it's either 3-4 shots, or the teleport to me and I'm dead.
Assassin R9 and is a hyper-noob, they're dead in 2-3 shots.
Assassin R8 or less, they're dead in 1-2 shots.
Blademaster R9 and knows how to play, I'm dead.
Blademaster R9 and is a hyper-noob, they're usually dead in about 10 seconds. (Depends on how much I crit.)
Blademaster R8 or less, they're dead in 1-2 shots. (If they're R8 and highly refined, it might take 3-4 shots.)
Barbarian R9 and knows how to play, standoff unless they're an APS build. (Unless they get in a couple of crits or manage to stun me.)
Barbarian R9 and is a hyper-noob, they're dead in under a minute. (Depends on how much hp they have and how much I crit.)
Barbarian R8 or less, they're dead in 10-20 seconds (If they have over 18k hp, maybe 30 seconds.)
Cleric R9 and knows how to play, I'm dead in 5-15 seconds.
Cleric R9 and is a hyper-noob, they're dead in 5-15 seconds.
Cleric R8 or less, they're dead in 10 seconds.
Mystic R9 and knows how to play, haven't met one in PvP yet.
Mystic R9 and is a hyper-noob, they're dead in 2-3 shots. (Although one did crit on me once for 200 points over my hp.)
Mystic R8 or less, they're dead in 1-2 shots.
Psychic R9 and knows how to play, I'm dead in one shot.
Psychic R9 and is a hyper-noob, they're dead in 2-3 shots.
Psychic R8 or less, they're dead in 1 shot.
Seeker R9 and knows how to play, I'm dead in 20 seconds.
Seeker R9 and is a hyper-noob, they're dead in 20 seconds.
Seeker R8 or less, they're dead in 2-3 shots.
Venomancer R9 and knows how to play, I'm dead by either the veno or the nix in about 20 seconds.
Venomancer R9 and is a hyper-noob, they're dead in 3-4 shots. (Because I need to kill the pet first.)
Venomancer R8 or less, they're dead in 2-3 shots. (Because I need to one-shot the pet first.)
Wizard R9 and knows how to play, I'm dead in 1 shot.
Wizard R9 and is a hyper-noob, they're dead in 2-5 shots, depending on which shield they have up.
Wizard R8 or less, they're dead in 2-3 shots.
At least, that's been my experience so far. Last NW it took three Sin's, almost 30 seconds to take me down while I was playing with an AFK R9 barb. They were obviously complete noobs because I never got stunned once and I didn't see any of them use any skills at all. Eventually they just got lucky with crits and my defenses all being in cooldown.
GM's do have some involvement with development. Unfortunately, they don't have a lot of leeway,, and there's the language barrier on top of that. Most of their suggestions are filtered through management. (i.e. We asked for larger starter Tideborn wings because the little fly wings were extraordinarily small compared to the boutique wings. The acted on our request, and almost doubled the size of every Tideborn aerogear except the starter wings that we wanted changed.)
Most of the betas are done in China, because that's where the developers are and they write the content for that version before Google Translating it into ours. Our dev's do have some beta servers though, and occasionally a prominent player will get invited to try out some new content they are working on that is specifically for our version. (I have received a few invites myself, most recently on a new arena.)
As for contacting people in China to discuss this, I started a thread on it ages ago, and then recently revived it. When sending information to the China contacts, it's very helpful to use Chinese. To the best of my knowledge, the majority of them do not speak/read English.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Cleric is (the best) support class so its a bit unrealistic to then insist that its 1v1 abilities should also have parity with other classes b:chuckle
VD mode gives the option to adjust this balance if we want so we should at least be thankful for that.
Might have been worth noting the class limitations before investing so much coin into your cleric. b:cold--Retired--
Factions: Forbiden, Genesis, Conqueror, BloodLust, Zen, Spectral
Active October 2008- August 2009; Semi-active- May 20100 -
What is the problem? It is hard to find a class that can beat equally geared cleric. Of course you can't waste your chi and you need to switch from defensive to offensive style to get somone killed. Demon spirit's gift helps alot to get people down fast.0
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in pvp all the skills is the only way..be certain ones just have too long a casting time. like i said i am the best pk cleric on the server and one of the best seeker [2r9], barb[rr8], and sin [2r9]. so i understand utilizing all you got. cleric was my first love and i am running into a brick wall. what i hoping to ge out of this is acknowledgement i guess, that i and others like me have been heard and that there is some re tweeking to be done on cleric cd's and damage.0
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ogunernile wrote: »in pvp all the skills is the only way..be certain ones just have too long a casting time. like i said i am the best pk cleric on the server and one of the best seeker [2r9], barb[rr8], and sin [2r9]. so i understand utilizing all you got. cleric was my first love and i am running into a brick wall. what i hoping to ge out of this is acknowledgement i guess, that i and others like me have been heard and that there is some re tweeking to be done on cleric cd's and damage.
Name of cleric and which server? b:question0 -
Not entirely certain what it is you mean by this.darknessofmy wrote: »wall of burning
I am curious about this as well.Woozie - Lost City wrote: »ogunernile wrote: »in pvp all the skills is the only way..be certain ones just have too long a casting time. like i said i am the best pk cleric on the server and one of the best seeker [2r9], barb[rr8], and sin [2r9]. so i understand utilizing all you got. cleric was my first love and i am running into a brick wall. what i hoping to ge out of this is acknowledgement i guess, that i and others like me have been heard and that there is some re tweeking to be done on cleric cd's and damage.
Name of cleric and which server? b:question[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Auerlius....archo0
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You have a full r9rr +12 JoSD cleric on archo and you still can't find people to kill in pk?
Clerics if played right are very scary end game, the morai update gave them plenty of potential and even with slightly lower damage they have a way to get around charms easier with the arrays.
Most people don't play cleric as a main especially the people who put a lot of cash into the game so you just don't see many truly end game clerics so to most people clerics will continue to be seen as really bad at pk.0 -
ogunernile wrote: »yes and versus an equally geared archer/seeker/barb with a player of equal skill: cleric cd's are too long, heart of steel spells doom, long casting for low damage in comparision to the damage being taken= dead cleric after 20 minutes of fighting on the ropes just to stay alive
We have had our fair share of complete fail clerics with OP gear on Archosaur, actually to think it, we have had more than our own fair share. The percentage on clerics who seem to have no clue what they are doing in PK is lot higher than any other class with high endgame builds. Still there are few clerics that are pretty much ridiculous to kill. Running away from situation where their push has been pushed back and cleric is late with retreat getting chased by TW champions of the season and still getting away easily.
I still love last NW where one of those so poor clerics tanked gank, my sins G16g+11 daggers sparked at 5aps for 5s+ w/o genie/apos. And yes, the idiot just sat there and not running for having permanent antistun due purify proc. I dont expect to beat such toons on my own due gear gap but come on, the "OP aps" toon sparked apsing away on a freaking cleric for a good while till cleric dies. But yeah, after 5-10s of not managing to hit the cleric on charm w/o aps I had to make decisions <.<.
Edit: Wasnt actually refering to you with my examples now that I know who you are - Would consider you one of the better high end clerics on server, which is pretty telling... None of the higher tier clerics have never been anywhere close to how fufu played his cleric and he had to be on BB when we damage tested my crit arma as sunder 1shot him w/o one. And as its known knowledge, my barb is seriously undergeared.Trolling Sid since So Hot
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WnbTank - Archosaur wrote: »We have had our fair share of complete fail clerics with OP gear on Archosaur, actually to think it, we have had more than our own fair share. The percentage on clerics who seem to have no clue what they are doing in PK is lot higher than any other class with high endgame builds. Still there are few clerics that are pretty much ridiculous to kill. Running away from situation where their push has been pushed back and cleric is late with retreat getting chased by TW champions of the season and still getting away easily.
I still love last NW where one of those so poor clerics tanked gank, my sins G16g+11 daggers sparked at 5aps for 5s+ w/o genie/apos. And yes, the idiot just sat there and not running for having permanent antistun due purify proc. I dont expect to beat such toons on my own due gear gap but come on, the "OP aps" toon sparked apsing away on a freaking cleric for a good while till cleric dies. But yeah, after 5-10s of not managing to hit the cleric on charm w/o aps I had to make decisions <.<.
Edit: Wasnt actually refering to you with my examples now that I know who you are - Would consider you one of the better high end clerics on server, which is pretty telling... None of the higher tier clerics have never been anywhere close to how fufu played his cleric and he had to be on BB when we damage tested my crit arma as sunder 1shot him w/o one. And as its known knowledge, my barb is seriously undergeared.
Purify weapon seriously reduced the skill required to play cleric- but if you dont even make use of it... b:shocked
I'm not familiar with arch server so cant comment on quality of players there- but i had a peek at rankings and you have 3175kills at 1.6kdr which is decent for cleric- maybe the kdr could be a little better because of your gears, but maybe you just got these recently?
One thing I might say is when you obtain really good gear you start to rely on it somewhat and your level sometimes drops. After r9 came out i was guilty of this for a while and you realise this suddenly when everyone elses gear comes up to yours!
Anyway repeating what I said before in equal gears you cant expect cleric to be as good as more offensive classes in 1v1. VD improves 1v1 capability significantly- but seriously you cant expect pwi to make cleric the best support class as well as an equally good pvp class. Thats just being silly b:chuckle--Retired--
Factions: Forbiden, Genesis, Conqueror, BloodLust, Zen, Spectral
Active October 2008- August 2009; Semi-active- May 20100 -
every class can QQ to push devs to improve them doesn t mean u r right at all to QQ .
mystics r even worse in pvp some might say well lemme give a small example:
r9rr sin fully buffed (16k hp) vs fully buffed mystic r9rr with average refines i was watching the fight my bets were on the sin ofc...
fight lasted 6-7 mins the sin could not get any proper stun lock over 20 procs purifies even with trying skills instead of aps i have same daggs i went for skills to c it s hard to 1 shot a fully buffed 3rd mystic with proper refines with skilla md it still procs
reult we both lost on a 1v1 vs that mystic
however with only self buffs mystic died against me in 2 hits
anyways point is the least thi g ppl wanna hear is casters QQimg about being not OP enough r9rr purifie is the most OP thing anyone can have full stop if someone neeeds a boost it's certainly not casters
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i believe you are doing something wrong
i saw azzazin killing way better geared players on DW before he even had r9rr
clerics endgame are awsome but you must be patient....fights not gonna end in 20sec with you 1shoting them0 -
End game geared clerics are OP lol. You should try reading your skills and setting up combo's. As the other person said, it's not going to happen in one-combo and in 20seconds, you've gotta force them to apoth/invoke/SS etc and set it up when you know everything's on cd.0
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lol guys i truly do appreciate all that you are saying about how to play.....trust me i can. if you are unsure make a new toon on my server and wc for me. Auerlius. My beef is not aout how clerics are not the best at pk. it that there are too many ways to render a clerics attack strategy useless.
In the new morai skills, everyone got a few new class damage skills and a kick *** defensive skill [exception mystics, sins, and ofc clerics]. clerics stayed with only 1 new metal skill. not even a phys attack spell increase. and the best defensive skill we have is limited by form, no one else's is.
next we are the best support class..yes i agree, but honestly there is like no chance for a a player facing an equally geared barb or archer. and a minute chance vs a psy. is it wrong of me to think that all classes should be more balanced for the one thing we all end up doing? [hardcore players i mean]
finally, everyone else got a new disable of sorts. clerics stay stuck with two sleep and GoS, i'm not even gonna count silent seal cause if the class can leap/teleport then thats pretty usueless cause of the limited range.
in closing my desire is not to see clerics become the new uber broken pvp clas [barbs and archers can keep that prize], just a lil more tweaking so that all classes can enjoy pvp. regardless of how much you sink into the game.0 -
Have you checked out the Cleric Pk Videos thread yet?[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Setting of the twilight moon; a late evening rendezvous from atop the
city's lonely heights. With the dawn the city below springs into bustling
activity, and I don my morning apparel. From on high, I watch the world.0 -
Barb's best defensive skill is also limited by form. In fact...ALL of the barb's skills are limited by form with the exception of 1 or 2. As for archers and barbs being OP verses clerics, that should be the case. Archers are kinda built to be cleric killers, but drop to other classes.
Personally, in NW, I've watched a cleric sit there and spam heal themslevles against nearly 10 other well geared players and tank all of them, then drop razor feathers and tempest and 2-shot half the group, right back to spam heal tanking. That's pretty damn impressive for any class.
And don't get me started with Plume shell. That damn skill takes normal damage of 1k per hit on the cleric and drops it down to under 100.0 -
I only fear archers. I only survive, couldn't care less about killing my attacker. They aren't a threat if they can't kill me.lalalala Pokemon
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