Sage vs Demon for Barbs?

I dont think this is gonna work.....

But ill give it a try anyway since i got nothing else to do:

Dear new player, the new changes get many people worked up, but they really arent that significant that it totally changes the whole picture.

Something else that gets everyone totally worked up, dear new player, is APS. Since the dawn of MMORPGs, barbs are a class designed to be tanks. Now they have the opportunity to be DDs. Many people dislike that idea already. And if thats not enough to fuel hatret against the whole APS idea, APS is commonly seen as a thing that destroyed the balance of this game. Espescially for barbs, it made them feel obsolete since the APS DDs didnt need tanks anymore. Now to top it all off, they tried to balance APS by giving casters even more imbalanced stuff in their end game weapons. Some consider this also a result of APS.

Because of all that, many barbs have a very strong dislike of the whole APS concept. Obviously, something as imbalanced as APS does have its advantages of course. Not only do you attack 5 times as fast, also do you get so much chi that you can be permanently triple sparked so that your damage output per second is likely to be even more than 5 times higher. Some of the barbs even though they dislike the whole existence of APS cannot resist this forbidden fruit and choose to eat it. Others will persevere in their resistance and resent these barbs that choose to go for APS even though it is what destroyed the balance in the game and for barbs in particular.

Unfortunately, this whole isseu is a very important factor in the choise between demon and sage. This is because demons get a 25% attack speed boost from their spark. They have convenient ways to get this 5APS at moderate cost. For the sage barb it is possible, but the difference in cost is insane, so in all practicallity, APS is a demon barb thing.

If we ignore the option of APS, then the choise between demon and sage could be considered reasonably balanced. Yes, there can be endless discussions on the forums about this, but that only proves that it is reasonably balanced. Before the most recent changes, the average opinion probably favored the demon barb, now its not so clear which barb the community as a whole seems to prefer.

Even if the sage barb gets its damage reduction removed, there still is the difference in the demon being the more agressive barb and the sage being the more defensive barb. Except for the demon skill sunder, i dont think there are big differences that should greatly influence your choise by themselves.

HrunsPanda - Archosaur wrote: »

I dont think this is gonna work.....

But ill give it a try anyway since i got nothing else to do:

Dear new player, the new changes get many people worked up, but they really arent that significant that it totally changes the whole picture.

Something else that gets everyone totally worked up, dear new player, is APS. Since the dawn of MMORPGs, barbs are a class designed to be tanks. Now they have the opportunity to be DDs. Many people dislike that idea already. And if thats not enough to fuel hatret against the whole APS idea, APS is commonly seen as a thing that destroyed the balance of this game. Espescially for barbs, it made them feel obsolete since the APS DDs didnt need tanks anymore. Now to top it all off, they tried to balance APS by giving casters even more imbalanced stuff in their end game weapons. Some consider this also a result of APS.

Because of all that, many barbs have a very strong dislike of the whole APS concept. Obviously, something as imbalanced as APS does have its advantages of course. Not only do you attack 5 times as fast, also do you get so much chi that you can be permanently triple sparked so that your damage output per second is likely to be even more than 5 times higher. Some of the barbs even though they dislike the whole existence of APS cannot resist this forbidden fruit and choose to eat it. Others will persevere in their resistance and resent these barbs that choose to go for APS even though it is what destroyed the balance in the game and for barbs in particular.

Unfortunately, this whole isseu is a very important factor in the choise between demon and sage. This is because demons get a 25% attack speed boost from their spark. They have convenient ways to get this 5APS at moderate cost. For the sage barb it is possible, but the difference in cost is insane, so in all practicallity, APS is a demon barb thing.

If we ignore the option of APS, then the choise between demon and sage could be considered reasonably balanced. Yes, there can be endless discussions on the forums about this, but that only proves that it is reasonably balanced. Before the most reasonable changes, the average opinion probably favored the demon barb, now its not so clear which barb the community as a whole seems to prefer.

Even if the sage barb gets its damage reduction removed, there still is the difference in the demon being the more agressive barb and the sage being the more defensive barb. Except for the demon skill sunder, i dont think there are big differences that should greatly influence your choise by themselves.

This is a really good post... hits the nail right on the head for the APS issue. As far as the new updates go, well, if they buff demon form to 40% HP it would probably be more balanced... though, to be honest, the extra 10% from sage was a large part of the reason I went sage on my barb.

@OP: There is no substitute for personal research. Asking on the forums whether sage or demon [insert class here] is usually taken as an engraved invitation for everyone to pop out from whatever rocks they were hiding under and browbeat you over why they think X is better than Y or vice versa. In general, go to a site like Ecatomb, look at the skills of each cultivation, and reach your own informed decision.

That being said, HrunsPanda is generally correct in saying that Sage is more defensive while Demon is more offensive. My barb is one of those aps-resenting, classic tank builds Hruns mentions. :P Some of the skills that made my decision were:

Sage Ream reduces chi cost
Sage Devour occasionally recovers chi rather than drains it
Sage True Form gives 10% more HP than Demon (for now, anyway)
Sage Beast Kings Inspiration is on par with Demon version and Strength of Titans gives extra physical attack
Sage Blood Bath takes less HP to use

Additionally, I always felt that the damage reduction on True Form just encouraged me to use human form more often when doing solo questing, so I didn't mind the tiger form reduction at all. Of course, that no longer applies these days. :P

without applying the aps


i say demon is more about crith and dd

sage more about deff and speed

and the damage reduction almost dont feel if u go pure str with a high refine weapon +10

http://pwcalc.com/46408e0b00603dc1 is this possible?

Bloody_Howl - Sanctuary wrote: »

ok so Demon or Sage. Speaking from a Demon aspect I can tell you now the main 3 things that should make up your mind is

1. TW - Do you want to be the best Catapult puller possible and have a billion hp etc etc. Sage might be better up your alley.

2. PK - In my opinion for PK, Demon is just plain better, as most know pk is mostly about spike damage with crits and zerks and Sage can't crit like a Demon can, Demon Sunder auto crits, Demon Bestial Onslaught ups crit rate by 35%!!! Demon Armageddon does 10% extra damage. Also Mighty Swing has a better stun %, Demon Roar can kill pesky APSers with it's bramble effect, the list goes on for me from BKI giving more chi to me and then some to squad to Bloodbath's extra accuracy.

3. personal playstyle - You wanna be a meatshield and JUST a meat shield? pure defense? Sage probably up your alley.

You wanna have alittle less hp/defense in True Form then Sage but still easily tank anything PvE related no problem and get a huge offensive boost for not only PK/TW/NW but also HOLDING AGGRO off strong DD's.

Demon imo just plain holds agro better b/c of Demon Flesh Ream having faster spamming, Demon Sunder + Armageddon autocrits and until recently Full True Form damage.

Frankly I like the idea that sage has a free chi skill and Strength of the Titans is abit better imo and some extra hp is always nice but those were the only things to make me consider Sage, at the end of the day, Demon just plain suited my playstyle and what I wanted/needed of my character better.

so if you want a short uncomplicated version of my opinion.

Sage - for TW CATAPULLING DEMON = EVERTHING ELSE b:pleased

No, none of that BS. Sage is much better than demon.

Walpurga - Dreamweaver wrote: »

doesn't exist in this server; go to PWCN

Yay. (^-^)