The Big Nation War Discussion

rikugx · March 2013

Ive had Serval discussions now with people from main chat and in partys during Nation War.

Ive experienced a lot of Nation wars up till now (Server Dreamwaever)

These are some things that i saw, i dont understand, and some that need to be changed

First what i Saw
-
- Fights have been 20 v 8
The team with 20 lost
Why did they lose?
20 People couldnt fight off that 1 barb who just took the flag and ran like nothing wo0uld be chasing him
Even if the 20 people managed to stop him for just a few seconds they couldnt manage to deal enough Damage to him to kill him so without ANY problem he just ran pass 20 people single handed and delivered the flag while these 20 couldnt kill him or got killed by the other 7 people wich mostly 1 shotted everyone on sight

A few Things confuse me

- Nation War is for lvl 60
I know now will come all the people and flame me "THEN DONT GO THERE IF YOUR SO LOW LVL!!!!!11eleven!"
But think about fellowing.
First, Nation War is supposed to hold maximum 160 player per Nation, Dreamwaever already allowes all who want to participate, hence some nations have a few less player then another nation

- How do i know that? > Simple, one of the Trivia Question was about it

- A Game is supposed to be Fun, but if your ANYTHING below lvl 99 in NW you mostly just get 1 shot by 80% of all people
it AINT fun getting 1 shotted all the time no matter how you Look at it.

- Spawn camping is Possible. This is a Large discussed Topic in World Chat but Fact is, even if you run away furing the 10 seconds your invinsible, mostly ranged chars still capture you with their range and 1 shot you without ANY effort

- i KNOW there is a Buff for lower lvls and it scales with the lvl.
Lvl 60 -> HPx2 +100attack&def lvl
lvl 80-> hp+50% 30attack/def lvl
and so on
i also KNOW that people who have Rank 9 and +12 are SUPPOSED to have a GREAT advantage but its far too much in the end.

Now a few things that REALLY bother me.

Charms.
Yes, Charms.
Why Charms? They make certain Classes invinsible, and others useless. I am a lvl 90 Assassin right now. I cant even kill a Mystic or anythign in my lvl Area because they just charm themself up
The barb from my experience has a charm, he was nearly invincible couse people couldnt deal enough damage to keep up with the charm ticking
10 seconds and you have to damage him for like 20k? if your anythign below that damage, wup, healed full again. if he has a Cleric supporting him its even more impossible.

Crabmeat
Technically the same. it heals just too much at once

These 2 things should be reworked or nerfed

An example.
Blargh, one of the games with the most Stable Guild Competition, be it Private or Official Servers.
Potions have no Delay and heal a fixed amount at once. but even with Spamming pots, when you face more then 3 people your dead

The game has so called Yggdrassil Berrys. THESE heal 100% of HP INSTANT. So now imagine the same char against 3, spamming these Berrys. He would survive and kill the 3 fighting him and maybe even more
Fun? Doubt it.

- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~
Time for Your Opinion. And please give reasons for your opinion couse i dotn want flamer here who just go all out "EWWW GTFO NOOB THERE IS G16 AND IF YOU CANT PAY FOR IT ITS YOUR FAULT!!!!!"
This game is about to die if nothings changed on the low lvl area couse as of now this game starts at lvl 90, everything below lvl 90 is simply not intresting (also the stuff with money earning and all, DQ items....)

Crixxix - Raging Tide · March 2013

Dude, take it from a level 101 barb. I get killed non stop. Even with a charm, we are no where near invincible. Especially when you get singled out and ganged up on once someone sees that your a barb. b:chuckle Seriously, it's like someone's spidey senses are going off... oh he's a barb, get him, kill him. Enuf said.

rikugx · March 2013

I dont say this applys to EVRERYONE but it happens, and this aitn fair

These barbs who just refuse to die are mostly those with Rank 9 third recast +12 all parts and what not. So Sure its hard to achieve this "invincibility" but even the Possibillity of becoming like that shouldnt exist

Crixxix - Raging Tide · March 2013

rikugx wrote: »

I dont say this applys to EVRERYONE but it happens, and this aitn fair

These barbs who just refuse to die are mostly those with Rank 9 third recast +12 all parts and what not. So Sure its hard to achieve this "invincibility" but even the Possibillity of becoming like that shouldnt exist

Well I guess I better go then, cause I'm about to try and get my r9 ring b:chuckleb:bye

Zsw - Dreamweaver · March 2013

Problem was most likely the 7 DDs, not the 1 barb. Barbs can be stun locked since they don't have purify proc. 20 people each doing about 1k on him would be enough to kill him in 10 seconds.

Sylvae - Sanctuary · March 2013

CoA is supposedly 60 and up, but unless you're 99+ you're not going to get anything from there. At least in NW, the ranged classes do have a chance to get some tokens out of it. It's mostly the lower leveled melee that get boned, because it's so easy to kill them when they try to get close enough to deal damage. Sins can at least invis at a decent level against most 100s, but so many are so bad at their class it isn't very difficult to survive them even when they gank stun someone. My BM openly mocks them for how pitiful they are, and they aren't even high grade geared.

My cleric and BM have had no real trouble avoiding spawn camping, aside from the port in and die that rarely happens. So many people just don't do anything properly to get away, and so they die. Few pop wings, and I think maybe one actually used accelerate to get away. The rest just do really dumb things, and consequently die. Sounds about right for PvP.

Stop going for Mystics, they have high pdef. Even mentioning that as something against charms shows more a lack of knowledge of either your class, their class, or both. Find softer targets and go for them.

EDIT:

Zsw - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Problem was most likely the 7 DDs, not the 1 barb. Barbs can be stun locked since they don't have purify proc. 20 people each doing about 1k on him would be enough to kill him in 10 seconds.

Yeah, no. 20 deal that much damage, barb goes turtle. Without veno, they are screwed. Too many melee in that 20? AoE dead before purge spears can proc on barb by the 7 DD. Veno in the 20? Focus target killing on however many there are, while killing any who can proc purge on weapons. Any plan that simplistic only works with OP gear as well.

Flamespirit - Dreamweaver · March 2013

I agree with you that the top tw factions cata barbs are very very hard to kill. It only takes a minimal support group and the flag is going to get scored if they happen to dig, and you cant stop them from doing that thanks to pangu essences. I'm full r93 +11 with frost gems and yeha normal barbs are easy kills, but not r93+12 full josd/vit stone ones with any skill. Example, the last nw big conjones sat there while me and atleast 9 others hit on him long enough for me to finish eating my take out food. I really feel bad for his charm. Luckily he didn't have the flag...and yeah we did manage to kill him a couple times, but still, it was only because he was alone and surrounded.

Absolutely spawn killing exists. I have like 16.8k life as a r93 wizzy and yeah I can pick off a couple people if they are weak-to moderate geared, but if I spawn into several decent geared players waiting for me im screwed. Often entire squads camp a spawn and it is effective. I'm even guilty of doing it too, so I know it does work.

I also agree with the enormous hit points that are now going to become more and more popular that charms should be given a longer cool down, and also made a bit larger in total size. Plat charms go pretty fast in Nw or tw when you have 20k+ life and that is about what most full r93 full refined arcanes end up with, I can only assume that the heavy armor users get even more. With the high defenses, charms would make it hard for nonr93 and those under+10 to kill, so I would think a longer cool down is in order.

burningsweetfire · March 2013

We've been in NW for a while now. I can tell you one thing... most QQ comes from low levels and people that are entering the endgames.

Alright, in a 8v20, the 20 lost, because the 8 are the team of r9 that is farming points and base locking, tell r9 in your nation to get in there instead of low levels trying to get in there just for points. It doesn't matter the size of your army, it's the power of the gears. It's like a dragon tackling a pile of humans, that dragon alone will take them down.

If your getting one shot, then run, don't fight. I seen low levels attack and then after I one hit them, they complain... don't tackle something you can't handle.

R9 can be taken down if you gank them. I had a team of one r9 and like 5 T3s, and we manage to stun lock and kill a r9T3 seeker. It's teamwork, and there was a cleric with that seeker too. I rarely see veno even purge nowadays and nor people trying to amp their damage to kill them, raw damage ain't gonna cut it.

Spawn killing is basically a siege to not let people pass (I know you don't want anyone to pass their spawns and try to stop you from getting the flag), people who are complaining are hypocrites, because they are doing it too, it's part of NW, so deal with it.

Charms and Crabmeat are part of the game, crabmeat only heals 3500, in your perspective, it's alot, but for a seeker, bm and barb with 10k hp, that is barely enough.

It really sounds like you don't know much of game and how endgame works. It's also logic that a lvl 90 can't take on a lvl 100, so don't do it. But even if you divide it to two NWs, you will still have the same problem. If I were you, go farm and merchant for your gears till you can handle the people in NW. There is always someone better than us and it's good to know when to run away.

You will understand sooner or later, I've been playing for 2 years, and this compliant occur again and again. I'm not gonna tell you what you want to hear, because I'm not gonna fill you with lies about the game, the PVP and gears are unbalanced, so we have to deal with it till they "try" to balance it out.

Sylvae - Sanctuary · March 2013

Flamespirit - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I also agree with the enormous hit points that are now going to become more and more popular that charms should be given a longer cool down, and also made a bit larger in total size. Plat charms go pretty fast in Nw or tw when you have 20k+ life and that is about what most full r93 full refined arcanes end up with, I can only assume that the heavy armor users get even more. With the high defenses, charms would make it hard for nonr93 and those under+10 to kill, so I would think a longer cool down is in order.

Problem is, they gave us the tools to fix that. Psychics have Diminished Vigor, Mystics have Sublime Transfusion, and clerics can spam stack the heck out of their two Array skills. That is 3 classes that can actively nuke someone's ability to heal themself, even with a charm. It's more that so many choose not to that make it so difficult at the moment. And that is the fault of the player's more than the games design.

Worst part is, clerics make a ton of contri spamming those Auroras alone, yet avoid it. And then tend to come on forums, and complain about how hard it is to earn contri. If only the backs of hands could travel through computer screens.

Teseanna - Heavens Tear · March 2013

Crixxix - Raging Tide wrote: »

Dude, take it from a level 101 barb. I get killed non stop. Even with a charm, we are no where near invincible. Especially when you get singled out and ganged up on once someone sees that your a barb. b:chuckle Seriously, it's like someone's spidey senses are going off... oh he's a barb, get him, kill him. Enuf said.

Yep this.

I'd say learn a new strategy. I purge barbs, then join in the shootout till they die!

Good Times!

Jaabg - Sanctuary · March 2013

I will add one thing more.

20 vs 1, the 1 one. The one was a r8 bm. What was special about this bm? Charger orb+no one paying attention.

Once people see there are only a few people around, they bunch up, buff, get chi. No one goes to the side. If the flag spawns there, and i get the flag, that is end game, very few people can catch me.

As for your situation, it is about group effort, veno purges, bm stun lock, hf, sins rib, sub sea, archer dd, wizzy dd, psy dd, clerics seal, seeker dd, mystics dd. A barb will fall, because they can only keep alive for X amount, after that, everything will be in cool down and they will die.

LadyMaraJade - Sanctuary · March 2013

add amplify damage to the Mix and that's 1 dead barb b:cute

Zsw - Dreamweaver · March 2013

Sylvae - Sanctuary wrote: »

Yeah, no. 20 deal that much damage, barb goes turtle. Without veno, they are screwed. Too many melee in that 20? AoE dead before purge spears can proc on barb by the 7 DD. Veno in the 20? Focus target killing on however many there are, while killing any who can proc purge on weapons. Any plan that simplistic only works with OP gear as well.

As I said, which you just reiterated, the problem is the existence of the 7 DDs. Without the 7DDs the barb would've been screwed.

Mraochan - Lost City · March 2013

I agree that it's annoying to be the only person trying to stop flagger. However, it's equally hilarious when you're on the opposite side of that situation; you cap one or both flags and never see an enemy. b:chuckle

I've heard people complain about a lot of things in this game (I've done my fair share of complaining as well), but never crab meat. Anyone remember these? http://www.pwdatabase.com/items/19234

The game's been about 90+ for years. Lot of people got to 90 in the first few months of the game, before frost, packs, tokens, hypers, oracles, cheap shards and refines, godly gear, and almost everything else people so heavily rely on these days.

Just some perspective.

rikugx · March 2013

as if you could ever get a proper team together in one field
either you have tons of clerics in 1 field or anything like that or it gets filled by so much randoms that you can never get YOUR team inside one and the same field
your suggestions on "What to do" are kinda utopic and hardly to achieve with 0 coordination thanks to the ******n 10k chat fee (the dev who decided this gotta be shot for it -.-)
And still Charms ruin a lot of the game when you cant damage em fast enough during a stun or whatever if the charm just ticks away all the damage you did during the 3-5 second stun and then your enemy just 2 hits you instead, yayzors for balancing and fairness

tsukiamu · March 2013

Sylvae - Sanctuary wrote: »

Worst part is, clerics make a ton of contri spamming those Auroras alone, yet avoid it. And then tend to come on forums, and complain about how hard it is to earn contri. If only the backs of hands could travel through computer screens.

Stack Arrays, heal yourself, render charm ticks/crabmeats useless, gain contrib. Clerics. Y u no take advantage of this **** D;

Cuppers - Sanctuary · March 2013

So I am hearing that after the next update if you do not get at least 5k contribution you will get mirages. Yeah so not right.

VKnightV - Lost City · March 2013

um why not make with soulforce ofc so that when say a invader enter ur teritory it display r9 are attacking said land.

that way apropiate r9 can counter them if all u guys want is to party with ur cordinated friends.

that way non r0 player can have fun with ppl there own gear and all win.

gear wise

if not just remove the whole party and make ppl go solo.

cos fact is its all about big dollar gear wish ppl dont like anyways

rikugx · March 2013

really? mirages instead of token? e.e
YES give the R9 EVEN MORE token couse what the people with low contri dont get anymore the high contribute people will get. People will get 600+ token woop woop

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