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PK Philosophy - The Order within Chaos

Zsw - DreamweaverZsw - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,087 Arc User
edited March 2013 in Tideswell (East)
*This writing contains 1,474 words.

PvP Trolls. We all love them. I'm sure many people remember the endless drama they cause, whether it's in pm, on world chat, or on the battlefield. Most of us grow to hate them and despise them. We vowed vengeance against them, and wished that they will be cleansed off the face of the server someday. They say though, be careful what you wish for.

I have grown to realise that trolls aren't necessarily a waste of a server space. They serve a purpose - to maintain balance. The difference between those who strive for PvP and those whose enjoyment is satisfied by pure PvE is that the more hardcore PvPer seeks challenges from other players, as opposed to from bosses or mobs. PvPers needs other PvPers as rivals. Imagine if one day you were suddenly able to 1 shot every boss and mob in every instance, and that you cannot die at all. That would get boring pretty fast, wouldn't it? Or what if you discover that every TW you attended was nothing more than a Crystal bash? Or that every NW instance was 20 v 0? That is the equivalence of a PvPer without a rival. Rivalry in pk to a PvPer is a difficult instance to a PvEer. Trolls fill this role of rivalry that seasoned PvPers seek. Sure, even the PvPers hate them because of their constant stealth kills or their annoying world chats and pms, but without them there would be no reason for these PvPers to improve. Respectful 1v1s between players only go a short distance. Organised group pvp events are rarely entertaining for long. It is rivalry that provides the challenge to keep them motivated, on their feet, and constantly improving. Where there are trolls there is rivalry, and where there is rivalry there are trolls.

Many people will tell you that these trolls would not last on a PvP server. This is true. On PvP servers, people rarely troll as individuals. Instead, they troll as entire factions. This is because on PvP servers, rivalry is rarely individual. They span across entire alliances. There is rarely a chance to target specific individuals except a few prominent people due to the constant mass pvp that spans across all major pvp spots. There, trolls are absorbed into alliances, and rarely come across as someone who people would hold individual rivalry against.

On PvE servers, they tend to be targeted as individuals. For this reason, we tend to hate them as individuals. But this is a fault of our own, and not of theirs. We are so accustomed to the peacefulness and respectfulness of West gate or Orchid temple that a person killing everything in sight would seem odd, as opposed to normal. Some of us may remember the faction Krispy that was formed for a brief period that wreaked havoc on West Gate. Yet they are only like this because we allowed them to be. When I used to lead Regenesis, I fought against them. Every time I brought the faction out to fight them, they would disappear until we were gone. But that is the nature of a peaceful PvE server like ours. With so few active pkers, they are only able to become trolls as individuals, against individuals. They cannot withstand the force of an entire faction. That fault is not of theirs though, for they have long been tagged as a PvP troll so no faction would accept them. In PvP servers, there are always alliances that would back them up. For that reason, PvE and PvP servers would forever be different.

Regardless of what server you're on though, they still maintain a balance. They are chaotic, so a lot of us find distaste for them. We fight them to bring back the order that we so desire. However, this constant struggle between order and chaos is order within itself. The reason we want order is because there is chaos to begin with. If there is no chaos, then we would not care for order. Let's say for example that on a PvP server, a group of trolls decide to form a small faction to pk people doing cultivation quests. To a lot of people, we would fight this very degrading to humanity, and it would drive us to fight back against them. As a result of this chaos, order is given birth. This little struggle gives a reason for two completely different factions to exist and eventually develop into major forces - One that started off because they enjoyed trolling people doing cultivation quest, the other that started because they wanted to fight back against these trolls. Without chaos, there would've been no need for order. Without the trolls who started a faction to begin with, there would be no need for the other faction to fight back against them. We see less of this on PvE servers because the number of people who PK is drastically lower compared to PvP servers. PvP rivalry between factions is almost non-existent outside of events. For this reason, trolls are extremely important in keeping the sanity of those who PvP. Remember what I said earlier about a PvEer who discovers that they can 1 shot anything and cannot die? What do you think is the first thing they would likely try to do? Most likely they'd try doing crazy things, such as solo harpy wraith, pull every single pav in warsong at the same time or try to kill city guards and such. Eventually, they'd probably quit. A PvPer who faces a similar scenario where all rivalry disappears can choose to quit too. However, their alternative is much more drastic. They would taunt people by trash talking them in common chat, world chat and pms. They would go on killing sprees in PvP spot, and try to get people to fight them and gank them. Does this remind you of something? Yep, the very trolls that we were trying to get rid of in the first place. So as you can see, it's a degenerative and regenerative process. We can never get rid of trolls. They are needed to keep the sanity of the people. Chaos is needed for order to exist. If all trolls were to disappear, the very people who were trying to fight against these trolls could very much end up as trolls themselves.

So if that is the case, then do trolls really deserve hate? Probably not, but naturally we hate them anyway, because we view them as the chaos that we need to bring order to. Perhaps they may once have been nice people who lost their sanity for reasons I mentioned above. So then I should thank all you trolls for keeping my sanity. I would name them, but I suppose we are not allowed to on this forum. While they are hated by many, they are nonetheless not hated by all. I do not believe they are pure evil. Despite the numerous people who despise them, I can always find people, very nice and orderly people I might add, who will tell me that they are friends with them, even after being aware of what they do to others. They are chaos, but they are not evil.

We see similar scenario in places other than world PvP. We can address spawn killing in Nation Wars to this very reason. While some people spawn kill because they are not capable of killing people otherwise, most people (like myself) resort to spawn killing because there is no challenge anywhere else. When I enter a battle of 20v0 that has gone on for a while, I would not be surprised at all to see a group of people standing by the spawn point waiting. Does that mean these people are evil? No. It means they know that they will not find a challenging fight anywhere else except the spawn point. They know that the fastest way to a challenge is to wait for someone to spawn, and so the spawn point is where they will wait. There is a lack of a challenge, a rivalry, a chaos. So there is no need for them to seek order. Instead, they generate chaos themselves.

We as human beings strive for challenges. While we prefer challenges of varying degree, (hence why we have hardcore PvEers while others are hardcore PvPers) we nonetheless play this game for the challenge of it. A PvEer demands challenges from the game developers. A PvPer demands challenges from other players themselves. That is why trolls are so important in maintaining this balance. Think about it, and you will see that a perfect world is not a world with all order and no chaos, but rather a world where there are equal order and chaos, except that you can find order within the chaos.

*Note: This piece of philosophy applies to PWI ONLY. This is NOT to be compared to real life in any way, shape, or form!

*Personal Note: I am writing this piece because I find that there has been a lack of entertaining PvP (Trolls, Rivalry, Chaos) on this server. Personally, I am getting very bored of playing here and I am desperately trying to find ways to entertain myself. So I think at least everyone should be aware of the mentally of pkers who are like myself.
Post edited by Zsw - Dreamweaver on
Zsw -104 Sage Assassin
TehZsw - 100 Demon Archer


All Luck No Skillz PvPer: youtube.com/user/zsw007
«13

Comments

  • Zanryu - DreamweaverZanryu - Dreamweaver Posts: 7,261 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    Stupid siteweb indeed is.
  • Zsw - DreamweaverZsw - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,087 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    Took me three tries to get this posted. b:sweat
    Zsw -104 Sage Assassin
    TehZsw - 100 Demon Archer


    All Luck No Skillz PvPer: youtube.com/user/zsw007
  • G_tar_God - DreamweaverG_tar_God - Dreamweaver Posts: 92 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    I vote me and Zsw start killing everyone b:avoid

    But yeah, its gotten to the point that theres not even totally OP ppl pk'in anymore. Kinda good in a way, but im semi OP and nobody wants to 1v1 me D=

    I miss the days of Gladio, we all had a purpose bak then b:sad
    G_tar_God ~ 104
    Aussie represent for PWI



    "Life without music would be a mistake..." [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Decus - DreamweaverDecus - Dreamweaver Posts: 5,033 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    I vote me and Zsw start killing everyone b:avoid

    But yeah, its gotten to the point that theres not even totally OP ppl pk'in anymore. Kinda good in a way, but im semi OP and nobody wants to 1v1 me D=

    I miss the days of Gladio, we all had a purpose bak then b:sad

    See, I've always thought Dynasty was the de facto faction that people hated. Long before Gladio et al, Arma hated them, as did EQ and Calamity. I've never understood it.
    Proving that not only archers do math since 2009. b:victory
    Current math challenge: pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1029711&page=45
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    "Any skills that can be used to kill you will interrupt BB when successful." -truekossy | "...Sage archers are kind of like Mac owners. They are proud of the weirdest and most unnecessary things." -Aesthor | "We ALL know Jesus doesn't play PWI. He may have suffered a lot for humanity, but he'd NEVER punish himself this way." -Abstractive | "I approve of bananas." -SashaGray
  • Runemine - DreamweaverRunemine - Dreamweaver Posts: 572 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    I am not reading this brick..... Someone clip note me.
    101 Blademaster(Pro/Fail 4.0 BM with 11k base HP+G16(+10))
    100 Seeker(The Vortex Beast)
    86 Assassin(Solo king)
    76 Archer(Squishy Nuker)
    72 Cleric(Horrible healer)
    67 Barb(Buff baby)
    61 Wizard(King Aoe)
    37 Mystic(Fun project)
  • haywizhaywiz Posts: 85 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    Sooooooooooo scrabble, when are you going to start your own faction?

    Do it now...............................
  • _dblazen_ - Dreamweaver_dblazen_ - Dreamweaver Posts: 566 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    I just have a few words for it.
    Dreamweaver is a PvE server, if people wanted PvP as their main goal, they should've gone to a PvP server.

    Apart from that, PvP outside of NW and TW (granted it's a balanced TW) is a no-fun allowed zone anyway.
  • soundslegitsoundslegit Posts: 472 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    On my sports forums threads like these get immediately converted to **** threads.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • NigeIus - DreamweaverNigeIus - Dreamweaver Posts: 399 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    See, I've always thought Dynasty was the de facto faction that people hated. Long before Gladio et al, Arma hated them, as did EQ and Calamity. I've never understood it.

    why u though that?

    it will never be best pk fights/tws/cube war than calamity vs. equinox, never ever!!best pk fights,tw,cube wars.

    i dont know how was being in eq during the cube wars, but in cala was something like this.

    A: an eq just killed me!!QQ
    B:wich room?
    c:omw to cube!!!!!!
    D: lets kill equinox!!!!!!
    E: i will hunt them in ot!!!
    F: lets squad and hunt them in cube!!!
    G: yes i just saw that guy, in room 22!trying to kill him!


    and a nice video that never dies!!old one but still nice XD
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELOo7Y6uDqw
  • The__Sun - DreamweaverThe__Sun - Dreamweaver Posts: 336 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    I completely agree here, although some are able to handle this better than others of course. I see this as a game to have fun and in the past at OT I had my sin rivalries where certain ones would spark kill me and sometimes it would be frustrating of course if you were in a 1v1. But, as long as you don't let it get the best of you this can turn into something positive. It allows you to expand on your PVP knowledge and gives the opportunity to counter the unpredictability of a stealth attack. This is just one of many examples. So, personally there is virtually no one I have a "PVP vendetta" against cause as long as you see it as using it to your advantage then there is no reason to be upset by frivolous things.
    I suppose this could be applied to NW too, the first couple fights I was in I got spawn ***** pretty good :P. Am I holding a grudge against anyone who did it? Nope not at all, I just used it as a learning experience and built on how to better counter it or see if I could lead people away so teammates could do something. This approach may not work for everyone, but I feel if someone can see the positives that come out of these PVP situations then it can be greatly used to your advantage rather than QQing about it.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    **** Laws of Physics I'm going to shoot crystals from my hands and summon meteors from the air.... Laws of Psychics
  • Zsw - DreamweaverZsw - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,087 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    I vote me and Zsw start killing everyone b:avoid

    But yeah, its gotten to the point that theres not even totally OP ppl pk'in anymore. Kinda good in a way, but im semi OP and nobody wants to 1v1 me D=

    I miss the days of Gladio, we all had a purpose bak then b:sad

    Gladio was a faction that fallen to chaos very much like what I described. They acquired end game gears - the best of the best. Sadly though, on a PvE server. They needed the challenge, but back then no one was really up for it. So of course, they're resort to more desperate measures such as taunts, which eventually drove people to despise them. They fell from power though, because on a PvE server like ours more people despised them for trying to find a fight. In the end, isn't enough support for their side, so I suppose a lot more of us seek order. It's unfortunate though, for it would've been nice to have them around today. The power of chaos is very.. compelling. Recently I find myself being pulled towards it. It pulls me out of character, away from what I normally am. But PvP is what I strive for, all I'm doing is answering the call for balance...
    See, I've always thought Dynasty was the de facto faction that people hated. Long before Gladio et al, Arma hated them, as did EQ and Calamity. I've never understood it.

    I don't believe Dynasty was ever hated, but rather, poorly understood. Despite some well known pkers from Dynasty, the main fighting forces over the past years has always been Calamity vs Equinox and Regenesis vs Intandem. The main "instigating" forces (chaos) usually spawned from Equinox and Intandem side, while Calamity and Regenesis were the "retaliating" forces (order).
    haywiz wrote: »
    Sooooooooooo scrabble, when are you going to start your own faction?

    Do it now...............................

    I'm not sure. Who is this anyway?
    I like killing shet b:victory

    I just have a few words for it.
    Dreamweaver is a PvE server, if people wanted PvP as their main goal, they should've gone to a PvP server.

    Apart from that, PvP outside of NW and TW (granted it's a balanced TW) is a no-fun allowed zone anyway.

    I know I should've gone to a pvp server but this is really the first MMO i have ever played until end game so I didn't know better. I choose this server in 2009. This is 2013. My goals have changed since then. It's unfortunate that we can't change servers.
    Zsw -104 Sage Assassin
    TehZsw - 100 Demon Archer


    All Luck No Skillz PvPer: youtube.com/user/zsw007
  • Alex_Gantz - DreamweaverAlex_Gantz - Dreamweaver Posts: 468 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    Soooo Scrabble I just read all that wall of text you posted... and my conclusion is:
    ''Can someone pls pls pls pass some por-n to Z? he really really need it b:laugh ''
  • Shawnita - DreamweaverShawnita - Dreamweaver Posts: 76 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    I'LL BE BACK. Well, I must admit - and I bet us "PvP trolls" had more fun than ya'll b:laugh Good old times b:kiss
  • OMalley - DreamweaverOMalley - Dreamweaver Posts: 8 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    Nice post, Z... does not sound like I am missing much IG, these days. Some of my fav last memories of the game were fighting with Krispy. I hope things turn around in DW, as you guys are a great group of peeps and deserve some competition and fun.

    OMalley (fake GM)
  • Heartz - DreamweaverHeartz - Dreamweaver Posts: 422 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    Nice post, Z... does not sound like I am missing much IG, these days. Some of my fav last memories of the game were fighting with Krispy. I hope things turn around in DW, as you guys are a great group of peeps and deserve some competition and fun.

    OMalley (fake GM)

    Where'd you dissappear to?!?! o.o left without a word D:
    105 - 105 - 105 (14th march 2014)

    Join date: November 2008 - HT.
  • Olee - DreamweaverOlee - Dreamweaver Posts: 185 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    Never thought dat u were in love with meh zswb:cuteb:cute
  • Olee - DreamweaverOlee - Dreamweaver Posts: 185 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    PS: best pk wars were agaisnt immortal and blodpact
  • Graviora - DreamweaverGraviora - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,073 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    I only have one question. How, as a fish, does Z manage to type so much? Do you have a waterproof keyboard or do you take hours to type out because you have to keep going back into the water to prevent fin dryout?
    Nice post, Z... does not sound like I am missing much IG, these days. Some of my fav last memories of the game were fighting with Krispy. I hope things turn around in DW, as you guys are a great group of peeps and deserve some competition and fun.

    OMalley (fake GM)

    OMG! I miss you OMalley! Come back b:cry
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • NigeIus - DreamweaverNigeIus - Dreamweaver Posts: 399 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    Nice post, Z... does not sound like I am missing much IG, these days. Some of my fav last memories of the game were fighting with Krispy. I hope things turn around in DW, as you guys are a great group of peeps and deserve some competition and fun.

    OMalley (fake GM)

    malley!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!i came bk to game!!and if i did u will ahve to do too!!!say hi to ammo from me and ibi. yesterday i was talking about u and ammo XD
  • SonH - DreamweaverSonH - Dreamweaver Posts: 59 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    Oh PK is fun recently. Got to meet my fan-girls, got to see how much people cash and still be derping at this game. What is it, SWIPE HARD CASH HARD SUCK HARD CRY HARD? Makes me wonder how much faster will they die if they don't always have +12 to back up their lack of skill. Nevertheless, it's always fun to see people trying to play in big boy league.
  • Decus - DreamweaverDecus - Dreamweaver Posts: 5,033 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    Oh PK is fun recently. Got to meet my fan-girls, got to see how much people cash and still be derping at this game. What is it, SWIPE HARD CASH HARD SUCK HARD CRY HARD? Makes me wonder how much faster will they die if they don't always have +12 to back up their lack of skill. Nevertheless, it's always fun to see people trying to play in big boy league.

    They need more snu snu power and DoTs, Son!
    Proving that not only archers do math since 2009. b:victory
    Current math challenge: pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1029711&page=45
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    "Any skills that can be used to kill you will interrupt BB when successful." -truekossy | "...Sage archers are kind of like Mac owners. They are proud of the weirdest and most unnecessary things." -Aesthor | "We ALL know Jesus doesn't play PWI. He may have suffered a lot for humanity, but he'd NEVER punish himself this way." -Abstractive | "I approve of bananas." -SashaGray
  • SonH - DreamweaverSonH - Dreamweaver Posts: 59 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    They need more snu snu power and DoTs, Son!

    Then you realize no amount of snu snu power nor DoTs will save them in PK lol. Keep on Sparking with IG, attempt to make the play then fail and go cash a lil bit more. Someday my fan-girls will understand PK isn't for the shallow-minded. God bless the scrubs.
  • NigeIus - DreamweaverNigeIus - Dreamweaver Posts: 399 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    wow sonh!!why so mad???who are ur fan girls???


    expainations are needed!!!!!!!!!b:laughb:victoryb:bye
  • Shawnita - DreamweaverShawnita - Dreamweaver Posts: 76 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    Never thought dat u were in love with meh zswb:cuteb:cute

    hahahahah oleeeeeee
  • Heartz - DreamweaverHeartz - Dreamweaver Posts: 422 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    Then you realize no amount of snu snu power nor DoTs will save them in PK lol. Keep on Sparking with IG, attempt to make the play then fail and go cash a lil bit more. Someday my fan-girls will understand PK isn't for the shallow-minded. God bless the scrubs.

    people who lied about their real age, and owe so much money away to X person, yet not paying back and getting 9RR in the meantime, does not even have the right to pick on others.
    105 - 105 - 105 (14th march 2014)

    Join date: November 2008 - HT.
  • SonH - DreamweaverSonH - Dreamweaver Posts: 59 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    people who lied about their real age, and owe so much money away to X person, yet not paying back and getting 9RR in the meantime, does not even have the right to pick on others.

    Oh Heartz my dear, the archer who always has to have top gears to compensate for something else that is missing, I'm so glad to see you. I'm happy you've started to cash a little bit less to keep that house you're in; it's always nice to see people making progress isn't it? It's an honor to know that you care about my debt, the debt in which I've already paid back. Let me know when you and the rest learn a new move aside from Spark and IG, try to keep in touch.
  • DeathProof - DreamweaverDeathProof - Dreamweaver Posts: 109 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    Another thread turned into a cash QQ
  • Heartz - DreamweaverHeartz - Dreamweaver Posts: 422 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    Oh Heartz my dear, the archer who always has to have top gears to compensate for something else that is missing, I'm so glad to see you. I'm happy you've started to cash a little bit less to keep that house you're in; it's always nice to see people making progress isn't it? It's an honor to know that you care about my debt, the debt in which I've already paid back. Let me know when you and the rest learn a new move aside from Spark and IG, try to keep in touch.

    even if you have paid back withing the last 2 months, you still took your damn sweet time. And if you ever played archer on a competive level you would know it has to have good gear, simply because the class is super squishy, saying otherwise is very ignorant and/or from people with medium to low end gears, who die to just about anybody anyway.

    And you know I simply just love how everytime I hit a sore spot, they always just play the cash card. There is nothing wrong with cashing lol, if you can't afford to cash fine, I don't pick on poor people, but poor people shouldnt pick on people who cash keeping their game free either. Not your buiness what I use my money on, and it's a very sad card to pull. I know there isn't much bad stuff to dig up about me, but you could atleast say something that is true.
    Example you could say I'm bad 1v1, which would be true because of my ping times and my decreased reaction time. Using an overall saying I have to compensate with gears isn't true, for mass pvp to be good you gotta have comparable gear with the other's best. otherwise no good, especially not on a squishy class like an archer. You can pull the gear card vs skill on any R9+10 or more person in the game. simply because gear is 80% and skill is max 20%. using it as an arguement is mostly because you have nothing else to insult me with.
    105 - 105 - 105 (14th march 2014)

    Join date: November 2008 - HT.
  • Anonome - DreamweaverAnonome - Dreamweaver Posts: 43 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    even if you have paid back withing the last 2 months, you still took your damn sweet time. And if you ever played archer on a competive level you would know it has to have good gear, simply because the class is super squishy, saying otherwise is very ignorant and/or from people with medium to low end gears, who die to just about anybody anyway.

    And you know I simply just love how everytime I hit a sore spot, they always just play the cash card. There is nothing wrong with cashing lol, if you can't afford to cash fine, I don't pick on poor people, but poor people shouldnt pick on people who cash keeping their game free either. Not your buiness what I use my money on, and it's a very sad card to pull. I know there isn't much bad stuff to dig up about me, but you could atleast say something that is true.
    Example you could say I'm bad 1v1, which would be true because of my ping times and my decreased reaction time. Using an overall saying I have to compensate with gears isn't true, for mass pvp to be good you gotta have comparable gear with the other's best. otherwise no good, especially not on a squishy class like an archer. You can pull the gear card vs skill on any R9+10 or more person in the game. simply because gear is 80% and skill is max 20%. using it as an arguement is mostly because you have nothing else to insult me with.

    Since you want to talk about people pulling "sad cards," Heartz, what does Son owing money to another person have anything to do with this thread? And true, he has nothing else to insult you with because you never even pk. The fact that you even chose to respond to this thread is comical to say the least. b:laugh
  • Zanryu - LothranisZanryu - Lothranis Posts: 1,998 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    The actual **** happened while I was away? Got no-name scrubs from back in the day talkin' like big shots, did all the good players leave?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    Thanks to the beautiful and talanted Zheii for the sigb:dirty

    youtube.com/ZanryuPWI
    youtube.com/ZanryuGaming

    I read the forums naked.
This discussion has been closed.