Scenario #2 short. Occult Ice

Sylvae - Sanctuary
Sylvae - Sanctuary Posts: 1,018 Arc User
edited March 2013 in Blademaster
BM forum has been boring, so adding a short scenario question to fill the emptiness.

Scenario #2. On what occasions would using OI before a stun, or in lieu of a stun, be more beneficial.

List as many as you can think of.

Scenario ends

PST: 5 PM 14 March
GMT: 1 AM 15 March
Post edited by Sylvae - Sanctuary on

Comments

  • Zanryu - Dreamweaver
    Zanryu - Dreamweaver Posts: 7,261 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    Off the top of my head:

    When you're dropping from the air.

    When trying to close gap and you know their genie can't break them out.

    When an Arcane is casting a long-channel skill and Smack is on cooldown. Start a lock with Occult to cancel the skill then proceed as usual.

    When you're one of THOSE BMs and you triple spark every opponent.
  • Sylvae - Sanctuary
    Sylvae - Sanctuary Posts: 1,018 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    Zanryu - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    When you're one of THOSE BMs and you triple spark every opponent.

    I do have to add on this, there are legitimate times it happens where you're not trying to be one those BMs.

    My food was cycling already, HP charm on CD 7 secs to go, apoth on CD. A sin trip sparked next to me, so I waited and trip sparked once stun wore off to get the 3 invuln period to survive. They didn't close, so I smacked, then OIed. Not my fault they were dumb enough to die to trip spark 5.0 clawing, but I'll do it instead of wasting the rest of the spark.
  • Zanryu - Dreamweaver
    Zanryu - Dreamweaver Posts: 7,261 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    Sylvae - Sanctuary wrote: »
    I do have to add on this, there are legitimate times it happens where you're not trying to be one those BMs.

    My food was cycling already, HP charm on CD 7 secs to go, apoth on CD. A sin trip sparked next to me, so I waited and trip sparked once stun wore off to get the 3 invuln period to survive. They didn't close, so I smacked, then OIed. Not my fault they were dumb enough to die to trip spark 5.0 clawing, but I'll do it instead of wasting the rest of the spark.

    Yeah, I've had my fair share of times I've had to triple spark but that was mostly a sarcastic statement. There are indeed legitimate times to triple spark>occult. Though a dex genie will usually allow you to conserve your chi by breaking or resisting the stun they try to put on you after they triple, and though this deviates from the subject OI is mostly used on APSing BMs, but I find a dex genie is far better for survivability while still allowing for a good stun lock with smack+whirlwind. After making the switch from APS to DPH, though not as highly as refined as I'd like to be, I much prefer this playstyle to the occult stunlock style of an APS BM. You lose out on being able to kill certain targets, but the overall survivability and flexibility is nice.

    Anyway, some BMs and most sins (in my experience) will triple spark occult, and it's easy to get out of if you've got a genie built for that purpose. With the prevalence of R9R3s, most of which have dex genies, a strict strength genie APS BM seems to be obsolete for the most part, and while a strength genie is great for locks and 1v1s you lose out on great defensive options when using it.
  • Sylvae - Sanctuary
    Sylvae - Sanctuary Posts: 1,018 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    Zanryu - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Yeah, I've had my fair share of times I've had to triple spark but that was mostly a sarcastic statement. There are indeed legitimate times to triple spark>occult. Though a dex genie will usually allow you to conserve your chi by breaking or resisting the stun they try to put on you after they triple, and though this deviates from the subject OI is mostly used on APSing BMs, but I find a dex genie is far better for survivability while still allowing for a good stun lock with smack+whirlwind. After making the switch from APS to DPH, though not as highly as refined as I'd like to be, I much prefer this playstyle to the occult stunlock style of an APS BM. You lose out on being able to kill certain targets, but the overall survivability and flexibility is nice.

    Anyway, some BMs and most sins (in my experience) will triple spark occult, and it's easy to get out of if you've got a genie built for that purpose. With the prevalence of R9R3s, most of which have dex genies, a strict strength genie APS BM seems to be obsolete for the most part, and while a strength genie is great for locks and 1v1s you lose out on great defensive options when using it.

    Dang, that actually brings up something that deserves a long scenario (and I ain't gonna run it dangit!). The difference between a reactive and proactive genie, with a reactive and proactive playstyle. Because while a proactive won't run into such scenarios, a reactive that attracts player "aggro" would need a reactive genie compared to a more defensive playstyle. I nominate you to run that, because I don't want to. And Jinx, just in case.
  • Zanryu - Dreamweaver
    Zanryu - Dreamweaver Posts: 7,261 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    Sylvae - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Dang, that actually brings up something that deserves a long scenario (and I ain't gonna run it dangit!). The difference between a reactive and proactive genie, with a reactive and proactive playstyle. Because while a proactive won't run into such scenarios, a reactive that attracts player "aggro" would need a reactive genie compared to a more defensive playstyle. I nominate you to run that, because I don't want to. And Jinx, just in case.

    I don't even know how to go about doing that. It wouldn't really be so much a scenario as a discussion of playstyle and pros and cons of each.
  • Sylvae - Sanctuary
    Sylvae - Sanctuary Posts: 1,018 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    Zanryu - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    I don't even know how to go about doing that. It wouldn't really be so much a scenario as a discussion of playstyle and pros and cons of each.

    While reminding you of the Jinx invoked. A breakdown of skills needed for either that derive strength from no stat attribute. Then a breakdown of useful skills that gain power along the Str or Dex maxed genie paths. Then focusing on affinity and stamina requirements for possible crossovers. Then finally a breakdown of what each skill could favor (proactive or defensive) to showcase a moderate of a both proactive/reactive genie, followed by a specialization of each type.

    Stop being lazy, I'm 3 sheets to the wind and came out with that. And everything has been spelled right, unless I'm somehow misstaken.
  • Zanryu - Dreamweaver
    Zanryu - Dreamweaver Posts: 7,261 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    Sylvae - Sanctuary wrote: »
    While reminding you of the Jinx invoked. A breakdown of skills needed for either that derive strength from no stat attribute. Then a breakdown of useful skills that gain power along the Str or Dex maxed genie paths. Then focusing on affinity and stamina requirements for possible crossovers. Then finally a breakdown of what each skill could favor (proactive or defensive) to showcase a moderate of a both proactive/reactive genie, followed by a specialization of each type.

    Stop being lazy, I'm 3 sheets to the wind and came out with that. And everything has been spelled right, unless I'm somehow misstaken.

    But but.. I'M WATCHING DARK KNIGHT! DON'T MAKE ME DO STUFF! Besides, helping people is out of character for me b:avoid
  • TheDan - Sanctuary
    TheDan - Sanctuary Posts: 3,495 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    I tend to use Occult Ice as a mid range opening stun because people tend to use fortify when you get too close.

    It's also good for baiting fortify so you can demon bash immediately after.

    Good for when you are close to killing someone and don't want to pause for channeling time for a kill before charm tick.

    Also good for when you're low on chi and need to buy time.
    BM PvP Guide: pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1320761

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  • Zanryu - Dreamweaver
    Zanryu - Dreamweaver Posts: 7,261 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    Be happy.
  • Sylvae - Sanctuary
    Sylvae - Sanctuary Posts: 1,018 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    Stunning when you don't want to stop. Used it while guarding our flagger to stun a R9 archer as I flew by at 11m/s without needing to stop. This helped defend against the 2 others coming up behind who I could then stop for final cap.

    Will on CD vs. another BM. Killed enemy BM in pit, used Will there to prevent his stun. Flag spawned elsewhere and ran into him a little later. So instead of wasting time went with OI before he could Roar, moved in for damage, Roar, finished. The OI worked because the channel/cast time takes longer than OI did to proc off.

    Chasing down kiters going same speed. Especially in air where both are in accel. As long as they are within that 10, good chance to stop them and proceed to normal stun.

    When they don't have high level gear. Found it prevents KSing alot, when you go OI straight in to attack. Too often during Roar the amount of time spent stopping then moving again would let some caster 1 shot it before I got there. Which if it was a difficult target great, but with a 1 shot that's just taking contri.

    After landing. Doesn't suffer from the skill lag penalty when you drop onto someone from above. Not needed on weak targets, but if divebombing a R9 you don't want to give them the chance to defend. Used more for defending a flagger usually.

    Just a couple idea off the top of my head,.

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