Is it worth socketing in evasion shards?

carlos2354
carlos2354 Posts: 0 Arc User
edited March 2013 in Assassin
Title says it all
Post edited by carlos2354 on

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  • soundslegit
    soundslegit Posts: 472 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    Dooooooooooo Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeetttttt
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • ErlangQR - Dreamweaver
    ErlangQR - Dreamweaver Posts: 14 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    no, mana shards are way better to stay in stealth
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • ShadowGoblin - Lost City
    ShadowGoblin - Lost City Posts: 30 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    ErlangQR - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    no, mana shards are way better to stay in stealth

    Is it bad that i sharded my 8x seeker with mana shards because otherwise he couldn't hold vortex up? xD
  • ErlangQR - Dreamweaver
    ErlangQR - Dreamweaver Posts: 14 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    ShadowGoblin - Lost City wrote: »
    Is it bad that i sharded my 8x seeker with mana shards because otherwise he couldn't hold vortex up? xD

    hey, w/e works, I use my psy's AA hat and sharded the morai chest with mana to switch after the pull is done. on the other hand my vortex is ~lvl5 and it's more than enough in FC xd
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Badonkajonck - Archosaur
    Badonkajonck - Archosaur Posts: 99 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    I'm not sure if your joking or serious. In the event that you are. No, being an assassin you will have allot of Evasion as it it. you are better off sharding with Garent shards (7+) and or Hp shards (Citerines 7+)


    P.S: My spelling is shocking. O.o
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  • Hannsel - Dreamweaver
    Hannsel - Dreamweaver Posts: 90 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    never shard evasion. in fact never shard anything that isnt josd,dot,hp,pdef,mres on sin gear
  • Bhavyy - Raging Tide
    Bhavyy - Raging Tide Posts: 1,083 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    Evasion is OP
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  • Olbaze - Sanctuary
    Olbaze - Sanctuary Posts: 4,242 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    Let's put it in a simple way.

    Evasion only works on physical attacks. Same as how PDef only shield against physical damage and MDef only shield against elemental damage.

    It's a known fact that sharding for HP is better than sharding either PDef or MDef.

    Now consider the crucial difference between Evasion and PDef: PDef always reduces the damage you take, whereas Evasion merely gives you a chance to reduce it. It's easy to conclude that PDef would be a better option than Evasion.

    And since HP is better than Pdef, we get HP>PDef>Evasion for sharding.
    I am Olba. Not Ol, not Baze nor Blaze. And even less would I go by Olblaze. Please, take a second to read a person's username.
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  • ErlangQR - Dreamweaver
    ErlangQR - Dreamweaver Posts: 14 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »
    And since HP is better than Pdef, we get HP>PDef>Evasion for sharding.

    inb4 "no no no you can refine for hp if your pdef is low it doesn't matter how much hp you get, you can only shard and refine ornies for pdef so you should shard pdef"
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Tsyn - Raging Tide
    Tsyn - Raging Tide Posts: 149 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    Evasion shards: Might have been useful if you played archer (Blessing of the Condor) and played entirely against melees.
    But for a sin, no.

    The optimal sharding for a sin for PvP will always be a combination of I believe mostly JosD and (some) savants? (Olbaze mentioned that the ratio was 19:5, but I forget). The sharding of a sin concentrates on survivability; any more offensive stats give rather diminished and wasted returns.

    Interestingly enough, I HAVE heard of a BM who sharded entirely high-grade metal gems, then destroyed archers.
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  • soundslegit
    soundslegit Posts: 472 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    Archers have a skill which increases evasion by 1000%. That's a lot. When you buy it and get killed by sins and archers anyway you see how little evasion helps. In PVE blessing of the condor is almost always 10 secs of phys invulnerability. In pvp you can laugh at BMs for 10 secs. Then a sin kills you.

    Point being after you die with 1000% evasion buff on sharding for evasion just seems laughable. Unless you only fight barbs.

    Though the skill itself is very good and archers who pvp should buy it as soon as they can.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Sakubatou - Sanctuary
    Sakubatou - Sanctuary Posts: 4,001 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »
    It's a known fact that sharding for HP is better than sharding either PDef or MDef.

    It is? *throws every effective hp calc out the window that says otherwise*

    That's just too broad a statement to have any validity. In pvp sapphires will provide more magic resistance than even JoSD, same with garnets. JoSD usually win for effective hp overall because they prevent against both but it depends on ornaments and who you tend to fight also and in many many situations garn/saphs will win and citrines will come in 5th after JoSD, garns/saphs, and vit stones.

    In PvE garnets provide the most effective hp, even over JoSD. Why? Because about 95% of the damage we'll take will be physical attacks from mobs/bosses. We're melee, we force them to be melee.

    Personally at lower levels I've always favored sharding garnets over citrines and in many cases at high levels. Refines for hp, but get your defenses where you can and in some casses that means sharding. You'll see alot of 10k+ hp sins who can't heal themselves properly with bloodpaint because they're all hp and no defense, meaning they get hit harder and are losing more hp than they can replace. Focusing on defense instead of hp means you have less hp but are losing less hp, so its easier to replace with paint heals.
    Seven 100+ characters leveled the hard way. Free to play. Mystic, Psychic, and Wizard left to level. b:victory
  • Olbaze - Sanctuary
    Olbaze - Sanctuary Posts: 4,242 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »
    It is? *throws every effective hp calc out the window that says otherwise*

    It is, if we're being proper people and are concerned with overall effective hp.
    That's just too broad a statement to have any validity. In pvp sapphires will provide more magic resistance than even JoSD, same with garnets. JoSD usually win for effective hp overall because they prevent against both but it depends on ornaments and who you tend to fight also and in many many situations garn/saphs will win and citrines will come in 5th after JoSD, garns/saphs, and vit stones.

    In PvE garnets provide the most effective hp, even over JoSD. Why? Because about 95% of the damage we'll take will be physical attacks from mobs/bosses. We're melee, we force them to be melee.

    Oh come on, now I'm getting the feeling that you're doing this just to make a point.

    Obviously, if you're going to make hyperbolic assumptions like 95% physical damage and full buffs, Garnet Gems have an advantage.

    Look, I'm not even going to bother with mathematical accuracy, because it's not necessary here. These topics are always about either a single specific case or a general case. In the single specific case, it's a trivial matter. In a general approach, there is simply no point in making considerations about special circumstances.

    Honestly, I find it tiresome that you would waste time waltzing in and going "Oh but if we take this specific circumstance, your general principle does not apply". Firstly, because it's irrelevant. Secondly, because it makes you look like some kind of nitpicky *******. Thirdly, because even in the specific cases, the difference between something like JoSD and Garnet Gem isn't going to be game-changing.

    I really, really, don't like that I had to write up a whole post just because you thought it was appropriate to bring attention to me not using the word "overall" or "average". Which I honestly figured was implied by the context, especially since I had previously said the following:
    Evasion only works on physical attacks. Same as how PDef only shield against physical damage and MDef only shield against elemental damage.
    I am Olba. Not Ol, not Baze nor Blaze. And even less would I go by Olblaze. Please, take a second to read a person's username.
    If you see b:cute be sure to take a second, calm look at anything I said.
  • Sakubatou - Sanctuary
    Sakubatou - Sanctuary Posts: 4,001 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »
    These topics are always about either a single specific case or a general case.

    I really, really, don't like that I had to write up a whole post just because you thought it was appropriate to bring attention to me not using the word "overall" or "average". Which I honestly figured was implied by the context, especially since I had previously said the following

    It's okay to just admit you're wrong instead of trying to talk yourself out of it.

    Average or overall isn't the issue. You made a statement that is wrong in about 98% of cases. Citrines are rarely the most effective hp. They're just a combo of easiest and cheapest because people don't plan to only pvp or only pve. They also don't target a specific opponent attack level, target magic or physical damage only, or consider their own paint heals as an effective hp issue.

    I corrected you're blanket statement that is only true about 2% of the time.
    Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Thirdly,

    Thirdly?

    I'll throw this in by way of clarification. Physical marrow for BMs is most appropriate about 90% of the time. Even in a PvP environment a ton of the attacks we take (archer, seeker, wizard bids, plume shells, and all melee) are physical. Why don't we see BMs running around with physical marrow 90% of the time? Because the 10% of the time it doesn't help it completely screws us.

    Similarly, sharding garnets or sapphires means we're more covered most the time against 1 damage type or the other but it's some times better to give up more defense 90% of the time in order to gain a smaller amount of hp thats useful 100% of the time so we're not screwed by 1-2 shots on the rarer occasions.
    Seven 100+ characters leveled the hard way. Free to play. Mystic, Psychic, and Wizard left to level. b:victory
  • _Raido - Archosaur
    _Raido - Archosaur Posts: 42 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    You can dodge magic, neo.
  • carlos2354
    carlos2354 Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    soundslegit wrote: »
    Archers have a skill which increases evasion by 1000%. That's a lot. When you buy it and get killed by sins and archers anyway you see how little evasion helps. In PVE blessing of the condor is almost always 10 secs of phys invulnerability. In pvp you can laugh at BMs for 10 secs. Then a sin kills you.

    Point being after you die with 1000% evasion buff on sharding for evasion just seems laughable. Unless you only fight barbs.

    Though the skill itself is very good and archers who pvp should buy it as soon as they can.
    So basically ur saying that there is no effective amount of evasion? Even if its about 50,000+?
    And yea ur if an archer has high evasion, u'd be invincible to bms and barbs, except assasins
    And i appreciate everone else's answers, thanks for giving me a little bit of ur time :)
  • soundslegit
    soundslegit Posts: 472 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    carlos2354 wrote: »
    So basically ur saying that there is no effective amount of evasion? Even if its about 50,000+?
    And yea ur if an archer has high evasion, u'd be invincible to bms and barbs, except assasins
    And i appreciate everone else's answers, thanks for giving me a little bit of ur time :)

    No I'm saying you lose faith in evasion as a concept when some some sin kills you while your evasion is buffed BY ONE THOUSAND PERCENT. Thats so much evasion and your not physically invulnerable so why bother sharding when that adds so little.

    Its not useless its just the worst of the four types of defense, HP, mag resist, phys resist and the runt of the litter, evasion. It also helps you the most against classes which aren't a threat anyway. Overall it just doesn't seem worth bothering with.
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  • Kniraven - Lost City
    Kniraven - Lost City Posts: 2,620 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    Unless your refines are +5 or below you should shard physical defense on an assassin.
    (whether this be JoSD or Garnets)

    If your refines are +5 or below you should shard hp.

    As a melee class, in pve almost all attacks you endure will be physical.
    In PvP assassins will be slower taking down high pdef characters and will need to absorb more physical damage (seekers are an exception).
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Zsw - Dreamweaver
    Zsw - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,087 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    No point seriously considering shards for PvE. PvE is too easy. If you're considering shards then it should be for PvP.
    Zsw -104 Sage Assassin
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  • Flamespirit - Dreamweaver
    Flamespirit - Dreamweaver Posts: 337 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    I think if not josd then all saphire. The era of the arcane is just about to be realized as more an more get made r93. Even the ever popular archer that doesn't know you is likely to hit you with magic. I would geuss that over the next 6 months you will see less of the pysical damage types in the mass pvp area.
  • Sakubatou - Sanctuary
    Sakubatou - Sanctuary Posts: 4,001 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    Flamespirit - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    I think if not josd then all saphire. The era of the arcane is just about to be realized as more an more get made r93. Even the ever popular archer that doesn't know you is likely to hit you with magic. I would geuss that over the next 6 months you will see less of the pysical damage types in the mass pvp area.

    After posting in here I did a NW and had to explain tactics for killing casters with a purify proc. Its all about dph, really. So I was considering suggesting holding out for +2 attack level stones where you can just 2-3 shot casters before they purify + HP away, turn and nuke you. However, that won't help you survive the prolonged fights much.
    Seven 100+ characters leveled the hard way. Free to play. Mystic, Psychic, and Wizard left to level. b:victory
  • carlos2354
    carlos2354 Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    soundslegit wrote: »
    No I'm saying you lose faith in evasion as a concept when some some sin kills you while your evasion is buffed BY ONE THOUSAND PERCENT. Thats so much evasion and your not physically invulnerable so why bother sharding when that adds so little.

    Its not useless its just the worst of the four types of defense, HP, mag resist, phys resist and the runt of the litter, evasion. It also helps you the most against classes which aren't a threat anyway. Overall it just doesn't seem worth bothering with.
    With all due respect, may i ask how many times u were killed by assassins/archers while buffed by evasion?

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