QUESTION for people with Disconnect issues

Highestelf - Heavens Tear
Highestelf - Heavens Tear Posts: 177 Arc User
edited April 2013 in Support Desk
For those suffering the intolerable Disconnect / Crash reports!!

I am curious to see if there is any correlation with PW Disconnect problems and unconventional installations or System settings.

By unconventional I mean any deviation from default selections in game install location OR Operating system settings/tweaks.

Please respond to the poll by acknowledging whether any of the choices apply to your situation.

Additional: If you modify your Virtual memory (paging file) setting, please indicate this in the poll with the "System settings tweaked and/or modified" selection.
Post edited by Highestelf - Heavens Tear on

Comments

  • mogwai
    mogwai Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    paging custom settings

    Initial size (MB) = 792
    Maximum size (MB) = 2000

    and then there's this which i've seen before...maybe they didn't do it right the 1st time?
    mmorpg is R'lyehian for: Innumerable quantities of grown babies
    discussing & often complaining about the imaginary.
    [SIGPIC]http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=1618000&dateline=1316204434[/SIGPIC]
  • SylenThunder - Twilight Temple
    SylenThunder - Twilight Temple Posts: 7,908
    edited February 2013
    From my experiences, the majority of DC issues have to do with the things people apparently never think of...

    Here's a small list in no particular order...
    Quality of local ISP connection.
    Quality of local network.
    Wireless interference.
    Overhead on local network. (Kinda has to do with local network quality.)
    Quality of the signal as it passes through the many heavily-trafficked regional routers on it's way to the server.
    CPU load causing a delay in transmissions locally on the client computer.
    Overloaded PCI bus causing a delay in transmissions on the client computer.
    Completely borked TCP settings on the client computer.

    Note that only three of those are really on the local computer.
    Also note, that the majority of the things you've listed in your poll are almost completely unrelated to data travelling through your network ports, and as such, have almost no impact on network traffic (lag/DC's) unless it is a severely extreme case.

    Let me outline it for you...
    PW installation other than default. (different folder, second partition or Drive)
    The only way this would have any negative impact on the client would be if you stuck it on a hard driver that runs at specs lower than those commonplace 10-15 years ago. Even then, the only real trouble would more likely be cause by bad drive sectors or a failing drive. Which would affect it no matter what drive you installed it on.

    System Temp folder on a separate partition/Drive
    Answer to this is pretty much the same as above. Installing the client, or running your PageFile off of a secondary drive is actually a recommended method to achieve a slight increase in performance. (Assuming, once again, that the second drive is at least as good as your primary, and that neither are older than dirt.)

    System settings tweaked and/or modified.
    If you know what you are doing, this will increase system performance. The only tweak that may affect lag is some minor settings to the network adapter and the way network traffic is handled. If you don't know what you're doing, or are using cheap software, then you're at risk of causing problems.

    Routine maintenance utility with destructive capabilities (deletes registry entries etc)
    The majority of these programs are relatively safe to use. However, if used too much, or set too extreme, it will cause system-wide instability. This is more likely to cause you issues with BSOD's, system hangs, or complete system crashes than it is to cause you lag or disconnects.

    Now, with all that in mind. I shall leave you with my usual spam, because I have this dream that eventually the majority of the users out there will be able to read, understand, and actually bother to educate themselves. (No offense intended at the OP, just making a general statement.)
    SylenThunder - Sanctuary wrote: »
    People are starting to hate me for posting this over and over, but damnit, there's just nothing better to say until I have more information and it's partially educational as well.....

    Common reasons that you can't connect to the servers, experience disconnects, or just have lag in general...

    1. You don't have the three .exe files for the client set to run as administrator.
    2. You don't have the game directory set as an exception in your security softwares.
    3. Your network adapter driver is out of date and needs to be refreshed.
    4. Your local area network settings are improperly configured.
    5. You have more than one firewall and don't realize it.
    6. Your firewall settings are too strict. (Very common with ZoneAlarm and Commodo firewall.)
    7. Your router is configured improperly.
    8. you have a bad network cable.
    9. You're using a wireless network connection. (Which leads to another huge list.)
    10. You have a lot of traffic on your local network that is bogging your router/modem down.
    11. There's a fault in your router.
    12. There's a fault in your modem.
    13, You have a bad phone cord plugged into your modem.
    14. There's an issue with your house wiring.
    15. There's an issue with your outside wiring.
    16. A squirrel chewed on your phone line at the pole and it's raining. (I've had this happen personally.)
    17. A switch/router at the CO for your ISP is having an issue.
    18. One of the many hubs between you and PWI is having an issue. (most common)
    19. There is heavy sunspot activity. (has happened within the past two years)
    20. There's a regional router outage. (Has happened several times, most recently just a couple of months ago.)

    That's just a few. The more details you give, the better I can narrow it down and tell you what the issue is.

    Also, post a copy of a traceroute to the server.
    Oh, almost forgot...
    mogwai wrote: »
    paging custom settings

    Initial size (MB) = 792
    Maximum size (MB) = 2000

    and then there's this which i've seen before...maybe they didn't do it right the 1st time?
    I've said it before, I'll say it again...
    The data you've provided, without any frame of reference, means absolutely nothing. A third of the systems I have sitting around me would thrive on settings like that, the remaining two-thirds would be so unstable as to be almost completely unusable.

    Here's a better example...
    This is my system after a recent reboot and running fairly normally. I may run GameBooster to disable some processes before entering TW or NW or PK.
    (yes, that's a hyperlink, click on it for information.)

    This is what my traceroute looks like... 
    D:\PWI\PWI~Files>tracert -h 16 pwigc2.perfectworld.com

Tracing route to pwigc2.perfectworld.com [64.74.134.51]
over a maximum of 16 hops:

  1    <1 ms    <1 ms    <1 ms  192.168.15.1 My local network
  2     1 ms    <1 ms    <1 ms  192.168.1.254 My ISP network
  3    18 ms     8 ms     7 ms  76-250-208-3.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net [76.250.208.3] My ISP
  4     *        *       12 ms  75.26.64.122
  5     *        *        *     Request timed out. I usually don't get a ping responses here because they block it. Same for the following ones that time out.
  6     *        *        *     Request timed out.
  7    12 ms    10 ms    11 ms  12.83.32.173
  8    78 ms    67 ms    67 ms  gar8.sn1ca.ip.att.net [12.122.85.85]
  9     *        *        *     Request timed out.
 10    68 ms    71 ms    68 ms  border2.t7-1-bbnet1.sje004.pnap.net [66.151.144.20]
 11     *        *        *     Request timed out. (PWI's ISP. You won't get a response past here for security reasons.)
 12     *        *        *     Request timed out.
 13     *        *        *     Request timed out.
 14     *        *        *     Request timed out.
 15     *        *        *     Request timed out.
 16     *        *        *     Request timed out.

Trace complete.

D:\PWI\PWI~Files>pause
Press any key to continue . . .
    My average server ping is 78-150ms with spikes into the 300's. When it gets into the 1.5-2k range I can usually trace the issue down to a regional router between myself and the servers.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Highestelf - Heavens Tear
    Highestelf - Heavens Tear Posts: 177 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    SylenThunder - Sanctuary wrote: »
    From my experiences, the majority of DC issues have to do with the things people apparently never think of...

    Here's a small list in no particular order...
    Quality of local ISP connection.
    Quality of local network.
    Wireless interference.
    Overhead on local network. (Kinda has to do with local network quality.)
    Quality of the signal as it passes through the many heavily-trafficked regional routers on it's way to the server.
    CPU load causing a delay in transmissions locally on the client computer.
    Overloaded PCI bus causing a delay in transmissions on the client computer.
    Completely borked TCP settings on the client computer.

    Wow, that was quite a rant! Unfortunately, the many network related issues you so astutely point out have been worn out beyond believe. For the record, I am IT certified (Networking administration and tech support) with over 20 years experience with computers.
    Let's look at this from my perspective:

    1. My wifes PC accesses the Internet (and PWI) through the same switched router and she has virtually NO DC issues.
    2. We have a 12 meg cable connection and personally adjusted settings which assure the best possible connection on my end.
    3. There is NOTHING wrong with our data transmissions with any end point, other than the Perfect World game!
    b:pleasedb:pleasedb:pleased
    • There is only one person that manages both PC's - that would be me!
    • Only one of these PC's has DC issues in game - MINE!
    • Only one of these PC's has unconventional settings and unconventional GAME INSTALLATIONS - that would be MINE!
    • I can confirm and assure you CPU load is not an issue on my computer.
    • I can confirm and assure you Overloaded PCI bus is not causing a delay in transmissions on my computer.

    The following is a list of my current build (My new build is in the works)
    Processor: AMD Athlon(tm) 64 X2 Dual Core Processor 6000+
    Memory: (RAM) 8.00 GB
    Graphics: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 550 Ti ( 4095 MB Total available dedicated graphics memory).
    Primary hard disk: SSD 11GB Free (56GB Total)
    NIC: Realtek PCIe GBE Family Controller - 10/100/1000Mbps

    Admitedly, my system is no longer "state of the art" current, but it far surpasses the minimum requirements to handle the game with ease.

    I didn't go into detail regarding the Poll options, because I had no intention of "debating" and rehashing the million and one possibilities! I am looking at an aspect that you, nor anyone else has covered; that I'm aware of.

    I looked at the logs compiled for every single crash report that was generated by each of my DC's and I discovered a single, re-occuring issue. Coincidently, this issue is present in the same logs being posted on the internet by others, for the same problem.

    My DC's are predictably triggered in specific "spots" of particular areas. My logs consistently reference "UNLOCATED" DATA on my system. I also noticed some of the people with the same complaints with verbatim (same as mine) logs refer to drive locations other than "C:" - which suggests to me that the game is looking for data in a specific file, in a specific location and can't find it.

    Thus, my curent inquiry is intended to test the theory that "unconventional" options on the "USERS" client (home PC) may be causing a dislocation between the games expectation for data in it's environment and it not being there. Since I am not privy to the game coding, I can only presume the game uses the systems default folders for such things as temporary folders and swap files. I am curious as to whether a users modifications could be creating an issue OR perhaps an aggressive maintenance utility is clipping away registry strings or even data files under a presumption they are garbage.

    In my case, my primary drive (C:) is SSD with limited space, so I had the game installed on a secondary drive. I also had my page file and Temp folders on a 3rd physical drive, as I did not want excessive read/writes taking place on the SSD. Not to mention the performance gains by having these on a separate physical drive.

    To sum up:
    When I stated "the many network related issues you so astutely point out have been worn out beyond believe," I know wtf I'm talking about. The insightful information you provided is a culmination of the many network related issues that are described all over the PW forums. Unfortunately, the information has done NOTHING to help "anyone" resolve the problem. We can keep rehashing the same old **** day in and day out. The definition of insanity is, "if it doesn't work, keep doing it!"

    Below is my tracert results - I have fewer timeouts than you - does that mean anything? b:chuckle

    C:\Windows\system32>tracert -h 16 pwigc2.perfectworld.com

    Tracing route to pwigc2.perfectworld.com [64.74.134.48]
    over a maximum of 16 hops:

    1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms ?.?.?.? (IP addy concealed Intentionally)
    2 9 ms 7 ms 8 ms ?.?.?.? (IP addy concealed Intentionally)
    3 13 ms 13 ms 13 ms ?.?.?.? (IP addy concealed Intentionally)
    4 15 ms 14 ms 14 ms ?.?.?.? (IP addy concealed Intentionally)
    5 38 ms 25 ms 22 ms 12.249.52.5
    6 73 ms 72 ms 75 ms cr82.desia.ip.att.net [12.122.153.54]
    7 75 ms 79 ms 76 ms cr1.kc9mo.ip.att.net [12.122.153.69]
    8 74 ms 74 ms 75 ms cr1.dvmco.ip.att.net [12.122.3.45]
    9 72 ms 79 ms 71 ms cr2.sffca.ip.att.net [12.122.28.53]
    10 77 ms 74 ms 76 ms cr84.sffca.ip.att.net [12.123.15.250]
    11 70 ms 71 ms 71 ms gar8.sn1ca.ip.att.net [12.123.15.237]
    12 * * * Request timed out.
    13 71 ms 71 ms 77 ms border2.t7-1-bbnet1.sje004.pnap.net [66.151.144.
    20]
    14 * * * Request timed out.
    15 * * * Request timed out.
    16 * * * Request timed out.

    Trace complete.
  • SylenThunder - Twilight Temple
    SylenThunder - Twilight Temple Posts: 7,908
    edited February 2013
    It wasn't a rant, it was meant to be very informative, primarily because of this...
    The majority of people that visit these forums already have a very vague grasp on the reality of the internet, computer, and the way things work with how the data gets transmitted. My goal wasn't to rant, but to properly inform those who may be misled by your poll.
    Hell most of the people on the forums wouldn't even know how to run an unconventional installation.

    Ditto with over 20 years IT experience here. I'm Cisco Certified and Microsoft Certified out the wazoo. I even run my own game server and develop fixes, updates, and patches for it. I even tinker with some of the source code the client uses. (And still don't understand why the Dev's at Wanmei can't seem to fix some of the easy problems with the client.)

    Now onto the meat....
    Yeah my timeouts sucks, but it's not because of dropped packets. I've actually contacted those hubs and they don't return pings.

    For your issue though, it's an interesting one. Truly though, the only way to test something like that if it were related to the integrity of your system, would be to test on another MMO.
    It might have been better if you had stated your specific issue more directly though and given many more details, rather than using the poll and the lack of detailed information.

    However, lets start from this....
    1. You say that you DC in certain spots. Is it just disconnecting, or is the whole client crashing? Also, what spots?

    2. No the game doesn't "use" any information from your system. In fact, all the installer does is expand the files to the location, add shortcuts, and add it to the add/remove programs. You can copy the directory off and run it from anywhere. (I keep a copy on a thumb drive.) My first thought about you DC'ing in certain areas would be corrupt client files. Usually though, that causes the client to crash and not DC.

    3. I can relate. I have three almost exactly identical rigs here. (one has a GTX 460 while the other two have GTX650's) All maintained by me, all configured the same. Yet my wife's will DC for no other reason than because it can. Her PC will also intermittently "lose" the internet entirely. I'm almost certain it's something she's installed to play some classic game with her friends but I haven't looked into it yet.

    On a side note:
    Highestelf - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    ...
    When I stated "the many network related issues you so astutely point out have been worn out beyond believe," I know wtf I'm talking about. The insightful information you provided is a culmination of the many network related issues that are described all over the PW forums. Unfortunately, the information has done NOTHING to help "anyone" resolve the problem. We can keep rehashing the same old **** day in and day out. The definition of insanity is, "if it doesn't work, keep doing it!"...
    They most certainly have been work out beyond belief. Unfortunately the majority of people complaining about issues still thing that their systems are pristine and could not possibly be at fault, that their networks are flawless, and that there's some magical fairy link that connects their PC directly to the servers. Therefore, if there is any DC'ing or lag at all, it must absolutely be the servers.
    Which happens to be completely incorrect.
    The only reason it hasn't done as much to help people on the forum is because they 1. Rarely reply when asked for valid information, and 2. because they choose to remain completely ignorant of reality.
    So far in almost every case where someone actually provided the information requested, I have managed to help them narrow down the issue and form a solution.

    Your particular case is rather interesting though and I'd love to take a stab at it.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Highestelf - Heavens Tear
    Highestelf - Heavens Tear Posts: 177 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    I agree, attempting to help a PC illiterate person while they are actually with you can be frustrating as hell, even worse when they are at a remote location from you.

    In the past, I have "moved" the games folder in anticipation of a fresh wipe/reinstall of the primary drive and operating system. The game played fine from the new location, with no issues requiring attention. This eliminated any concern for any reliance on the registry in regards to the game, but not my concern that the game relies on a link to system data locations. Particularly where interaction with the graphics card is required.

    Coding and programming are not my forte, that applies doubly in regards to the software interaction between device drivers and the operating system and/or other hardware components.

    Here is a snippet from the A3D.log (I will continue discussion below the snippet)
    [00:00:25.803] A3DEngine::Init, Init Angelica Imm Wrapper Fail!
    [00:00:25.876] Chosen Device Format: BackBuffer [A8R8G8B8], DepthStencil [D24X8]
    [00:00:25.876] A3DDevice::Init(), Chosen T&L Device...
    [00:00:26.150] A3DDevice::Init(), Create device 1024x768x32
    [00:00:26.151] Max vertex blend matrix index: 8
    [00:00:26.151] VS version: 1.1
    [00:00:26.151] VS constant registers number: 96
    [00:00:26.151] PS version: 1.4
    [00:00:26.151] Skin model render method: Vertex shader.
    [00:00:26.151] A3DGFXMan::Init() Can not open gfxlist.txt
    [00:00:29.705] Terrain2 mask texture format is 28 (ps supported)
    [00:00:29.705] Terrain2 lightmap texture format is 22
    [00:01:02.042] A3DSurfaceMan::LoadSurfaceFromFile(), Can not locate [Version01\


    OMFG - this post contains only 1/4 of what I spent an incredible amount of time writing.
    I was interupted by kids and have no idea wtf happened to the remaining 3/4 of my work!
    Nothing sucks more than investing a **** load of time on an issue and have it go up in smoke.
  • SylenThunder - Twilight Temple
    SylenThunder - Twilight Temple Posts: 7,908
    edited February 2013
    Highestelf - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    ...
    OMFG - this post contains only 1/4 of what I spent an incredible amount of time writing.
    I was interupted by kids and have no idea wtf happened to the remaining 3/4 of my work!
    Nothing sucks more than investing a **** load of time on an issue and have it go up in smoke.
    It's because the fail developers for the websites refuse to use UTF-8, so any aberrant characters will kill an entire post. I've had it happen before. I find copying all of the text into notepad and then back into the post removes most of them. and on large posts, I always copy before hitting the post button in case it does that.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • mogwai
    mogwai Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    SylenThunder - Sanctuary wrote: »
    ...Oh, almost forgot...

    I've said it before, I'll say it again...
    The data you've provided, without any frame of reference, means absolutely nothing....
    i'm aware of this, i provided only the information requested.
    SylenThunder - Sanctuary wrote: »
    This is my system
    (yes, that's a hyperlink, click on it for information.)
    hyperlink, got it. b:cute

    In my 1st post i linked to an earlier thread regarding the future upgrading of one server's hardware, which in my opinion an accurate study cannot be completed until after said upgrade is in place. Even so only if afterwards enough people respond quickly. Otherwise by the time the study is completed it will again be time for another server upgrade,..kinda like now. iirc in yet another thread it was stated that some users are routed through the east server even though they may be playing on the west one b:faint

    So, what i'm getting at is if ya got the time to help a few people with some odd & end tweaks then by all means go for it, because i just don't see any amount of wazoo qualifications solving PWE's problems. I know there's a lot of real pro's here for 3-4.5 years now & still really not much stands out in the way of generalized solutions.

    This is gonna make ya blow up...if the youtube trailer is laggy i know game play is gonna be about 30% worse for me once a month goes by. b:chuckle

    But yea, that's just the way it is..spend more to enjoy more.

    p.s. i only posted because i dc'd simply from relogging, decided to change my siggy back to the old one, & did a search on my followed threads b:laugh

    enjoy po
    mmorpg is R'lyehian for: Innumerable quantities of grown babies
    discussing & often complaining about the imaginary.
    [SIGPIC]http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=1618000&dateline=1316204434[/SIGPIC]
  • Highestelf - Heavens Tear
    Highestelf - Heavens Tear Posts: 177 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    Just wanted to close this thread by identifying the source and solution to my game DC (disconnect) problems.

    One of the potential causes we discussed for DC in PWI was poor connections. SylenThunder and I (like so many others) tried to identify specific issues in regards to connection. There is one problem related hardware that we all neglect to identify, despite the fact we see it (and avoid it) with wireless Internet access.

    The problem I am referring to is EMI, or "Electromagnetic Interference."

    With WiFi you can suffer from all kinds of EMI, from having a wireless phone to close to your WiFi Access Point (Wireless router), or Microwave ovens etc etc. People with basic Network installation knowledge know to avoid these issues.

    My Problem was related to my wired connection to my router.
    There are two wiring problems that any novice will learn to avoid early in their Networking education, both pertain to the cable used between the host (PC) and the network device (switch/router), and I was guilty of creating my own failure; on this issue.

    At one time, my PC was located further from the Router than it is today. The distance required a long network cable. When I made changes in our home network, I neglected to change my network cable to suit the shorter distance to my router. Consequently, the excessively long cable was the cause of my DC problems.

    Let me explain why this seemingly insignificant issue, such as a network cable, is really a BIG problem.

    First, there is a limit to how long a Network cable can be, exceed that limit and transmission degradation becomes a problem.

    Second, any wires that have electrical current running through them generate an Electromagnetic field, which radiates beyond the physical cable. When cables run parallel to each other the Electromagnetic field from one wire can interfere with the Electromagnetic field in the other cable. This results in the phenomenon refereed to as EMI (Electromagnetic Interference).

    Because the currents in data transmission are so low, they are easily corrupted by EMI.

    My long cable did not exceed the maximum length, BUT it was still too long, because the excess cable formed a long running loop. The loop created a long stretch of wires running parallel to each other.

    Replacing the wire with a proper length (just long enough to reach between the host and router) completely eliminated my DC problem.

    Rule #1
    Make sure YOUR Network cable is no longer than necessary to reach between your host and Router!

    Rule #2
    NEVER allow your network cable(s) to run parallel with any other electrified cable/cord!

    Rule #3
    Your cable(s) Should be able to run perpendicular (crisscross) to another electrified cable/cord ("IF" there is no way to avoid it) without experiencing EMI interference.

    I hope my experience will result in helping "anyone" resolve their frustrating DC problems too!

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