Sins, y u no aoe?

TrueHarmony - Archosaur
TrueHarmony - Archosaur Posts: 332 Arc User
edited March 2013 in Assassin
So many times i've been doing SoT and a sin wants to clear, pulls 3-5 mobs, auto attacks one and then screams for heals. Rather than healing, pulling four mobs onto me at once and dying, i let give him wings of protection, then watch as he dies. I mean, i have sage rez so its not like he lost anything, but the rage most of these sins produce after is astounding.

How do you get to level 100+ and not understand heal aggro?


Im seriously asking
Post edited by TrueHarmony - Archosaur on
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Comments

  • opkossy
    opkossy Posts: 11,177 Community Moderator
    edited February 2013
    Depends on the sin.

    In some cases, the reason they don't AoE is they put themselves at risk from it when APSing a single mob at a time would keep them alive for certain. Sometimes their AoEs are on cooldown or they somehow lack chi or something of the sort. Some of them may have even already AoEd before even getting back there.

    ... and in a vast majority of the cases, they're just stupid hyper babies with no understanding of the basics of the game muchless the ability to play their own class like 95% of the population nowadays.
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  • Father_gold - Sanctuary
    Father_gold - Sanctuary Posts: 449 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    i think it's more the latter. they probably don't have weapon refined enough to bp-replace hp and they dont have gear refined enough to take 1 hit from each mob. but all that means they should not be pulling 4 mobs. are these sins also using hp food? i've run into a few squads where they see i have demon IH and thinking i'm a walking mp pot. if i notice people are not potting i ask, then if they really are not then i dont feel bad when they die.

    the cleric has zero obligation to heal stupid players.... or cheap ones.
  • Jacerai - Dreamweaver
    Jacerai - Dreamweaver Posts: 943 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    i think it's more the latter. they probably don't have weapon refined enough to bp-replace hp and they dont have gear refined enough to take 1 hit from each mob. but all that means they should not be pulling 4 mobs. are these sins also using hp food? i've run into a few squads where they see i have demon IH and thinking i'm a walking mp pot. if i notice people are not potting i ask, then if they really are not then i dont feel bad when they die.

    the cleric has zero obligation to heal stupid players.... or cheap ones.

    As another demon cleric with demon IH, I'm with you there. If I see someone obviously not potting (mp-wise, since sometimes there's so much action that I can't tell hp-wise), I will ask them about it. Most often than not I hear: "I ran out of mp food and thought you would heal me more." b:surrender

    On the non-aoeing sins? Maybe their aoes are level 1, maybe they do not even know taht sins have aoe skills (ran into this a few times), or maybe, as said before, they are just FC hyper-babies that did not learn their class. *shrug* This cleric has a dagger fish and enjoys hers, but never pulls without aoeing (when a cleric/mystic is in squad healing).


    To quote someone in the cleric forums: I can't heal stupid.
    b:cute The world may be small, but it is far from known.

    Why the rage? It's a draining emotion.

    Me: DaValentine (veno), Jaceraie (mystic), etc etc etc b:chuckle
  • TrueHarmony - Archosaur
    TrueHarmony - Archosaur Posts: 332 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    As another demon cleric with demon IH, I'm with you there. If I see someone obviously not potting (mp-wise, since sometimes there's so much action that I can't tell hp-wise), I will ask them about it. Most often than not I hear: "I ran out of mp food and thought you would heal me more." b:surrender

    On the non-aoeing sins? Maybe their aoes are level 1, maybe they do not even know taht sins have aoe skills (ran into this a few times), or maybe, as said before, they are just FC hyper-babies that did not learn their class. *shrug* This cleric has a dagger fish and enjoys hers, but never pulls without aoeing (when a cleric/mystic is in squad healing).


    This is one of the several reasons i didnt go demon. I heard "if you go demon barbs will love your Ih'. To be blunt, i would rather heal the barb more efficiently with sage ih than give him mana with demon, seriously herbs aren't expensive, buy them and use them >.>.

    Although i must admit, i am jelly of your spirits gift. 900 mana is ok but 120% magic attack....:drool
    Yeah my sig doesn't match my name...i would say im being all clever and trying to confuse people...but im really just too lazy to make a new one
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  • Jacerai - Dreamweaver
    Jacerai - Dreamweaver Posts: 943 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    This is one of the several reasons i didnt go demon. I heard "if you go demon barbs will love your Ih'. To be blunt, i would rather heal the barb more efficiently with sage ih than give him mana with demon, seriously herbs aren't expensive, buy them and use them >.>.

    Sad thing is, I normally hear this from BMs and other DDs (if the BM isn't tanking, or I'm in BB). b:sad
    b:cute The world may be small, but it is far from known.

    Why the rage? It's a draining emotion.

    Me: DaValentine (veno), Jaceraie (mystic), etc etc etc b:chuckle
  • Zanryu - Dreamweaver
    Zanryu - Dreamweaver Posts: 7,261 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    Y me am use herbs if me am do aps tanky tanky spark spark kill die boss man lady?
  • opkossy
    opkossy Posts: 11,177 Community Moderator
    edited February 2013
    Perk to having dedicated cleric friends that are demon: I don't need to use pots period in runs with them.

    Perk to knowing my classes and the game in general: I can solo **** without even paying attention to the cleric period if need be.
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    image
  • skaitavia
    skaitavia Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    Usually in SoT if I AoE, the mobs die if I zerk crit b:chuckle.

    But if I'm auto attacking them, then I'd rift first before attacking. Sins that don't either:

    1.) Don't understand heal agro (common nowadays since powerleveling has been with this game for quite a while now)
    2.) Ignorance because they cannot understand how much they can/can't handle at one time.
  • Zsw - Dreamweaver
    Zsw - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,087 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    So many times i've been doing SoT and a sin wants to clear, pulls 3-5 mobs, auto attacks one and then screams for heals. Rather than healing, pulling four mobs onto me at once and dying, i let give him wings of protection, then watch as he dies. I mean, i have sage rez so its not like he lost anything, but the rage most of these sins produce after is astounding.

    How do you get to level 100+ and not understand heal aggro?


    Im seriously asking

    You can get to 100+ easily by hyper fcing. In doing so, it is not necessary to learn about heal aggro. Another possibility is that some sins are so squishy that they would die within the 1.8 seconds it takes to cast earthen rift, and cannot afford to do anything other than Auto attack. In this case, they should probably not pull multiple mobs like that.
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  • Geshwur - Raging Tide
    Geshwur - Raging Tide Posts: 570 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    This is just a common example of sins who think they're tanky, but can't actually tank.

    So, this goes to all you sins who want to pull SoT... Unless you're well geared, don't.

    And by "well geared" I mean geared for tanking, not APS.

    Such as T3vana or R9+ with decent refines and shards...


    Also, if you DO pull... For God's Sake... AO FREAKING E! Seriously...
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  • evilsmakers
    evilsmakers Posts: 182 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    AOE isnot a must when a Sin pull, i mean if i can handel the mobs i already pulled why i would AOE, AOE ment to be used for a big group pull not a 3-4 mobs so when cleric heals wonot take agro and die,while for 3-4 mobs apsing is fine i guess normal sin can handel that much.

    Note : i really suffered from some clerics who keep healing me even there is noway in hell i could die and then he say why u didnot AOE b:shutup
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  • Sakubatou - Sanctuary
    Sakubatou - Sanctuary Posts: 4,001 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    Note : i really suffered from some clerics who keep healing me even there is noway in hell i could die and then he say why u didnot AOE b:shutup

    More often this is the case in my experience. Its not the sins yelling "Heal me! Heal me! Heal me!" and not understanding heal aggro, its the other way around. Cleric's not understanding diverse playstyles and healing a sin pulling like they would a barb and just expecting that sin to need heals and just expecting that sin to aggro for them.

    Whats really stupid is that cleric will watch the sin, see that they haven't aggro, see their hp drop a little, decide to heal, and complain about heal aggro. Cleric's, y u no understand heal aggro?

    With an endgame weapon a sin will be getting much much much more heals than your IHs can give them. I'm seriously talking 4-8 times the amount of heal that an full IH stack offers. Your single IH won't make much of a difference in many cases.

    What kills since is when they have to stop attacking for things like running to their next mob, stuns, or the channeling of aoe skills. This is why many sins don't aoe in these situations, because it may kill us. Channeling and casting on Earthen Rift is 2.5 seconds, which against 5 mobs can be 2-3 attacks each, so 10-15 hits received without a heal. Much easier to just not aoe and survive on paint heals.

    If the cleric heals and the sin hadn't aoed there is fault on both sides since people are expected to protect their cleric's by aggroing when tanking, but can you really excuse a cleric for healing when they know the person won't need it and know they'll die from heal aggro when they do heal?
    Seven 100+ characters leveled the hard way. Free to play. Mystic, Psychic, and Wizard left to level. b:victory
  • HrunsPanda - Archosaur
    HrunsPanda - Archosaur Posts: 1,136 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    It is the fault of both for not communicating.

    I sometimes am too lazy to cumunicate everything myself, but only when i know that i got everything under control and will be able to make sure that noone dies unless maybe they do extremely out of the ordinary things. Of course, neither healing someone who is being attacked nor not AOEing when you are a sin should be considered extremely out of the ordinary, so there is need for communication. (Or a barb who will agro the other 4 mobs so the sin can take em 1 by 1. We barbs still be usefull !)
  • Salari - Raging Tide
    Salari - Raging Tide Posts: 2,102 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    There are just as many 100+ clerics that will start healing before anyone touches a mob as there are any class that goes gunho on a group or groups of mobs and only attacks on mob at a time. This is just not related to just "sins". As the previous posted pointed out communication is generally the problem (other than the nabs).

    On my sin in bh's I let the barb lead, it is his job. If he does a couple pulls or groups either way it does not bother me. The barb is the "Captain" of the squad, I am still "old school" in that aspect. Depending on the squad in SoT I will either skill spam, us a bow(if i am dual clienting with my barb) or just drop the hammer and pray the bm does not wait till half way through my spark to hf b:chuckle. But it is real easy to control agro on a sin, people just think they need to use up their spark aps'n and the like. (I have done that before not paying attention ;) )

    When I am on my barb I tend to hyper in SoT and Abba as it is really good exp in very little time. So in SoT I do the first few groups of frogs, then I do 2 pull's afterwards. One to the door mob then the second the rest of the mobs including the popper boss. I try to always ask if the cleric is ready(sometimes i do drop the ball and start early). I have been in several SoT squads where one or more ask why I did not do a pull of frogs, I can but I rather not have a squad wipe over that. Most squads I have been in are barely prepared(gear, skill and apo wise) for that kind of pull.

    What really bothers me is people doing stupid things without thinking of the other members or zero communication
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  • Father_gold - Sanctuary
    Father_gold - Sanctuary Posts: 449 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    you guys are losing the point. OP stated the sin is complaining of NOT getting heals during a simple pull, most likely because the sin has **** gear/refines.

    if you pull any amount of mobs and you have a healer present that doesn't know you or your gear well(read: this doesn't apply to ppl like saku, who is not approaching the question from a grossly under-geared POV), then you should know how to aoe and keep aggro. i'm sage on my sin, i pull spark and either rising +SS (tangle on genie)+ earthen then aps.

    there is no reason any sin should not aoe and expect heals when they aggro multiple mobs.

    this is the leading cause of gear-ism in this game. undergeared people who QQ and whine because they can't handle certain things and expect other classes to make up for their lack instead of either waiting for the squad to do it together or at least fulfilling the role of non-healer, which to make sure the walking source of hp and rez doesn't get aggro and if they do to grab those mobs as soon as possible.

    if you can solo the instance w/o anyone else let alone a cleric, then that situation has nothing to do with the original question.
  • Rice_hero - Lost City
    Rice_hero - Lost City Posts: 140 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    How I usually deal with small pulls where the ep heals even when he/she doesn't need to is to simply use a genie aoe skill such as tangling mire.
  • TrueHarmony - Archosaur
    TrueHarmony - Archosaur Posts: 332 Arc User
    edited March 2013

    Whats really stupid is that cleric will watch the sin, see that they haven't aggro, see their hp drop a little, decide to heal, and complain about heal aggro. Cleric's, y u no understand heal aggro?

    I do understand it, its why i let sins who pull too many die if they don't aoe. I can rez them and no harm is done, no one can rez me, unless for some reason we have a mystic with us, lol.
    Yeah my sig doesn't match my name...i would say im being all clever and trying to confuse people...but im really just too lazy to make a new one
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  • RunningTiger - Dreamweaver
    RunningTiger - Dreamweaver Posts: 243 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    I'm sure your not talking about sins like me that are all +10,11, and 12. If I somehow pull enough mobs that I can't live with my own bp...than I deserve to die. As the other dude above me said though, if u heal me and I am tanking a huge group, it may be suicide for me to try and save u with an aoe. I generally only like heals after groups of mobs are dead.

    Lots of people play sins and really have no clue about thier survivability. There are tons of low refine sins with no skills who think they should be just as strong as a highly skilled and refined sin (and gemmed).
  • Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands
    Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands Posts: 7,231 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    So many times i've been doing SoT and a sin wants to clear, pulls 3-5 mobs, auto attacks one and then screams for heals. Rather than healing, pulling four mobs onto me at once and dying, i let give him wings of protection, then watch as he dies. I mean, i have sage rez so its not like he lost anything, but the rage most of these sins produce after is astounding.

    How do you get to level 100+ and not understand heal aggro?


    Im seriously asking

    That too often, so many sins do that, it's like dud if you don't AOe all mobs will go on cleric, if they can't handle a group of mobs without heal they should AOE or wait people to go in mobs with him.
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  • HuggyRabbit - Archosaur
    HuggyRabbit - Archosaur Posts: 6 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    All I'd say is. If the person playing the sin is stupid enough to TRY and be a Barb without Tanking gears... Then have easier to find another sin or squad. There's so many of them.

    I mean I have aps gear. But I do AOE to save my clerics because I love heals. Usually I wait till Barb or a Tanky Person gets there before doing anything. But with that said. If you are the first one with a Cleric. Play SMART! Don't be dumb and pull half of SoT or freaking Abba unless you are R9+ or you just have a deathwish.

    if Clerics are smart. They won't follow b:chuckle

    And FYI Sin's have 2 AOE's.

    1 costs 2 sparks and the other is Earthen Rift
  • Sakubatou - Sanctuary
    Sakubatou - Sanctuary Posts: 4,001 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    And FYI Sin's have 2 AOE's.

    Good call here, turbo. Think you forgot Toxic Torrent as our 3rd aoe skill as a frontal aoe.

    If I have a cleric in squad, and one that is insisting on healing me I will aoe. Pull, tele to the center mob and ER then triple spark. By the time the mobs realize you've tele'd near them you are almost done channeling ER and you have a 3 seconds spark immunity to hit a pot, heal to full, and start apsing while the cleric does... whatever. Gives you 1/6 the amount of heals your bloodpaint gives you.

    Here's the thing...I'm a grown *** adult. I understand my actions are my own. If I'm on a cleric and I heal someone before they have heal aggro its my own fault for doing that. If I'm on a sin and I overpull and am going to die I'm not going to take it out on the cleric. More likely then yell "heal me!" I'm gonna yell "run" so mobs don't reset on them and then apologize profusely for my stupidity.

    Just ignore the idiots who do yell "heal me" because they pulled more than they could handle. If they're being rude and it was their fault then there is not much you can do to change their rudeness other than ignore it.
    Seven 100+ characters leveled the hard way. Free to play. Mystic, Psychic, and Wizard left to level. b:victory
  • Typhyse - Sanctuary
    Typhyse - Sanctuary Posts: 3,469 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    Saku speak so much truth.
    /making a paradox joke out of Saku's forum title
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  • Olbaze - Sanctuary
    Olbaze - Sanctuary Posts: 4,242 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    Saku speak so much truth.
    /making a paradox joke out of Saku's forum title

    Doesn't work, actually.

    Your statement is not an absolute. Basically, it leaves room for him to lie. Thus, the negation of your statement leaves room for him to speak the truth.

    Your paradox is not valid. Because it's not a logical contradiction for him to lie a lot while speaking "a little" truth. And as long as his original statement falls under the truth, it's valid and there's no paradox.

    It's not very effective.

    And I am pretty sure formal logic has already solved that issue by creating second order logic systems where the law of excluded middle doesn't exist.
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  • Sakubatou - Sanctuary
    Sakubatou - Sanctuary Posts: 4,001 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    It'd prolly go something like this... (see below post)
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  • Sakubatou - Sanctuary
    Sakubatou - Sanctuary Posts: 4,001 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    The poster's forum title above me is true.

    (and that, ladies and gentleman, is how you correctly +2)
    Seven 100+ characters leveled the hard way. Free to play. Mystic, Psychic, and Wizard left to level. b:victory