seekers are too easy to play

13

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  • Neodaystar - Sanctuary
    Neodaystar - Sanctuary Posts: 1,020 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    I've read a lot of post saying how zerk+crit is what a seeker is about and how it makes them easy to play, but its really not. It is overwhelming damage if you're lucky, but the chances to land a crit+ zerk (4x damage) is on average about 2%....that's 2/100 single hits. I used eye of observation on every end game seeker I come across and the average crit rate is about 30%, and the proc rate of GoF is about 7%. The probability of doing 4x damage in one hit is 0.3 x 0.07 = 2% per target.
  • Walpurga - Dreamweaver
    Walpurga - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,028 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    Neodaystar - Sanctuary wrote: »
    I've read a lot of post saying how zerk+crit is what a seeker is about and how it makes them easy to play, but its really not. It is overwhelming damage if you're lucky, but the chances to land a crit+ zerk (4x damage) is on average about 2%....that's 2/100 single hits. I used eye of observation on every end game seeker I come across and the average crit rate is about 30%, and the proc rate of GoF is about 7%. The probability of doing 4x damage in one hit is 0.3 x 0.07 = 2% per target.

    can't be that low can it?

    I used to have a sac. strike axe on my BM and it procced a lot
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  • soundslegit
    soundslegit Posts: 472 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    Neodaystar - Sanctuary wrote: »
    I've read a lot of post saying how zerk+crit is what a seeker is about and how it makes them easy to play, but its really not. It is overwhelming damage if you're lucky, but the chances to land a crit+ zerk (4x damage) is on average about 2%....that's 2/100 single hits. I used eye of observation on every end game seeker I come across and the average crit rate is about 30%, and the proc rate of GoF is about 7%. The probability of doing 4x damage in one hit is 0.3 x 0.07 = 2% per target.

    True or not, many sources say GOF has a 20% proc rate.
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  • Daruvial - Sanctuary
    Daruvial - Sanctuary Posts: 277 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    well its definatly more then 7% its closer to 20% and being a g16 seeker you really do need r9 for the gof it makes a huge difference.. expecially with the zerking metal skills dont even need to break through a cleric's shell anymore just one shot them with a zerk crit metal attack..
  • Neodaystar - Sanctuary
    Neodaystar - Sanctuary Posts: 1,020 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    20% proc rate don't seem to be right...that is like 1/5 hits. I have GoF on my sword and it doesn't proc that often. When GOF procs, it doubles the attack, so its like saying having add 20% crit rate to a weapon; and added to an average base crit of 30%, that's 50%. Meaning 1/2 of all attacks is double the damage. In any case, if the proc rate is 20%, it will only make the chances of doing 4x the damage around 6%.
  • IHaxJoo - Raging Tide
    IHaxJoo - Raging Tide Posts: 531 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    Neodaystar - Sanctuary wrote: »
    20% proc rate don't seem to be right...that is like 1/5 hits. I have GoF on my sword and it doesn't proc that often. When GOF procs, it doubles the attack, so its like saying having add 20% crit rate to a weapon; and added to an average base crit of 30%, that's 50%. Meaning 1/2 of all attacks is double the damage. In any case, if the proc rate is 20%, it will only make the chances of doing 4x the damage around 6%.

    Rank 9 Recasted version 2 does have 20% proc rate on GOF, just like how the r9r2 bows have 20% purge proc rate and arcane users have 20% purify proc rate.
    And you cant just add numbers when it comes to probability.
    Even though u have 30% crit chance, you can still hit over 100 times and not get a crit and in the same way, even though u have 20% GOF proc rate, you can still hit many times and not get a hit. But if you were to attack a world boss with normal attacks over a long period of time, you will see the average value is really 50% to get double damage.

    You're basing your experience on the fact of a small amount of attacks which you cant do cuz its probability after all. Nothing is written in stone.

    On that note, I have 40% crit rate and have r9r2 sword. And i either always get a crit or see my zerk proc or if i m lucky, get gof + crit. So, you only start to see the change and the probability working when you're working with huge numbers.
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  • Bhavyy - Raging Tide
    Bhavyy - Raging Tide Posts: 1,083 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    Purge is only 8% according to many sources and only works on attacks that do not debuff the target jsyk and purify is lower than 20% too
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  • Neodaystar - Sanctuary
    Neodaystar - Sanctuary Posts: 1,020 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    Bhavyy - Raging Tide wrote: »
    Purge is only 8% according to many sources and only works on attacks that do not debuff the target jsyk and purify is lower than 20% too

    That why it's hard to believe when people keeps saying GoF has 20% proc rate. I tested it my self hitting a target over 100 hits, and less than 10% is when GoF procs. There is no weapon that can have 20% crit rate cause the devs probably think that is just too OP. GoF is like a separate crit rate factor in its own (doing double damage).
  • Deceptistar - Sanctuary
    Deceptistar - Sanctuary Posts: 10,454 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    Lets just keep it at...

    if the archers arent flocking to class change to seeker,

    then its not OP enough yet

    true fact b:chuckle
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  • Neodaystar - Sanctuary
    Neodaystar - Sanctuary Posts: 1,020 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    If I continue hitting the boss (south of drearmweaver) close to 1000 hits, it will probably equate to around 10% proc rate. I assume that many seekers says its 20% is because their aoe skills ion spike and G.Slash is their bread and butter that accounts for multiple targets, giving them a longer list of damage that may contain many crit hits.
  • Zheii - Archosaur
    Zheii - Archosaur Posts: 2,732 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    Neodaystar - Sanctuary wrote: »
    If I continue hitting the boss (south of drearmweaver) close to 1000 hits, it will probably equate to around 10% proc rate. I assume that many seekers says its 20% is because their aoe skills ion spike and G.Slash is their bread and butter that accounts for multiple targets, giving them a longer list of damage that may contain many crit hits.

    while this may be true, if you're beating on a single target then it's not going to matter wether it's an aoe or not. also the same would apply to any other class that may aoe or have an aoe, which unless I am greatly mistaken would be... all of them.
    Seekers may aoe more than most classes yes, but unlike mag classes our proc (zerk) only affects our damage unlike a mag DD's Proc which usually affects their whole game play in that moment (e.g. speed, movement etc)
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  • IHaxJoo - Raging Tide
    IHaxJoo - Raging Tide Posts: 531 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    Ok . here's the thing about AOE and GOF proc.
    It either zerks on all targets hit by the AOE or it doesn't. Its proc is nothing like crit chance, where you may crit some and do normal damage on others.
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  • HerbalLife - Archosaur
    HerbalLife - Archosaur Posts: 87 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    o.m.g
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  • HerbalLife - Archosaur
    HerbalLife - Archosaur Posts: 87 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    go Mystics, so we can all be gardeners and plant Plants all over place FTW
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  • Zheii - Archosaur
    Zheii - Archosaur Posts: 2,732 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    ^ Agreed, I'm re-rolling as a Mystic.
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  • Grimmjow_X - Dreamweaver
    Grimmjow_X - Dreamweaver Posts: 91 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    if you take a seeker full JOSD r9r3+12 who know how to play vs a nuub psy that is full JOSD r9r3 +12 the psy will win 8 out of 10 times, sure the seeker is a all around good class, but it dont got the damage output of a caster, at end game a seeker is WAY behind in damage,
  • Toomaga - Heavens Tear
    Toomaga - Heavens Tear Posts: 221 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    Grimmjow_X - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    if you take a seeker full JOSD r9r3+12 who know how to play vs a nuub psy that is full JOSD r9r3 +12 the psy will win 8 out of 10 times, sure the seeker is a all around good class, but it dont got the damage output of a caster, at end game a seeker is WAY behind in damage,

    Tell that to Flailsticks who hit a poor BM in NW a week or two ago for 55k e.e with a zerk....Although in the BMs defense he got caught in physical marrow.
  • IHaxJoo - Raging Tide
    IHaxJoo - Raging Tide Posts: 531 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    Toomaga - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Tell that to Flailsticks who hit a poor BM in NW a week or two ago for 55k e.e with a zerk....Although in the BMs defense he got caught in physical marrow.

    Sorry you cant use that as a reason behind seeker's OP.
    Any seeker(even a rank 8 seeker) will destroy a phy marrowed bm
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  • Cactubolo - Lost City
    Cactubolo - Lost City Posts: 11 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    seekers are easy to play...its the first class i have ever gotten over lvl 30
    http://pwcalc.com/6175acea8cd1cf3d
  • Grimmjow_X - Dreamweaver
    Grimmjow_X - Dreamweaver Posts: 91 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    Toomaga - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Tell that to Flailsticks who hit a poor BM in NW a week or two ago for 55k e.e with a zerk....Although in the BMs defense he got caught in physical marrow.

    Toomage
    this is the Build for end game seeker

    http://pwcalc.com/1ccf26d4869b8d0a
    his att is Physical Atk 14908-17864

    lets take a Psy end game Build
    http://pwcalc.com/0f47bee8a100650b
    His damage is Magic Atk 26591-31337 AND THAT IS WITHOUT THE Aqua Spirit mastery Sage that is 25%

    makeing the the basic skill Aqua Impact does on average 41295 damage then + att lvls

    where the seeker basic metal skill Battousai does 19486 damage + att lvls
    so a seeker without GOF and higher crit rate would be light years from caster damage
    a psy that crites does 82k damage
    a seeker that zerk+ crit does 77,9k damage
  • Zheii - Archosaur
    Zheii - Archosaur Posts: 2,732 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    Cactubolo - Lost City wrote: »
    seekers are easy to play...its the first class i have ever gotten over lvl 30
    http://pwcalc.com/6175acea8cd1cf3d

    lmao, that means nothing at all, you obviously enjoying playing seeker more and therefore are more motivated to lvl it. got nothing to do about whether it's easier to play or not.
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  • IHaxJoo - Raging Tide
    IHaxJoo - Raging Tide Posts: 531 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    Zheii - Archosaur wrote: »
    lmao, that means nothing at all, you obviously enjoying playing seeker more and therefore are more motivated to lvl it. got nothing to do about whether it's easier to play or not.

    He's trolling lol
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  • Zheii - Archosaur
    Zheii - Archosaur Posts: 2,732 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    IHaxJoo - Raging Tide wrote: »
    He's trolling lol

    Dammit, I always fall into the troll trap Q.Q
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  • Akan - Momaganon
    Akan - Momaganon Posts: 28 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    A full r9.3+12 seeker will 1 hit an equal geared psy that doesn't know how to play :)
  • IHaxJoo - Raging Tide
    IHaxJoo - Raging Tide Posts: 531 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    Akan - Momaganon wrote: »
    A full r9.3+12 seeker will 1 hit an equal geared psy that doesn't know how to play :)

    A full r9.3 + 12 psy will also 1 hit an equal geared seeker that has no other buffs than adrenal numbness and he's afk
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  • Deceptistar - Sanctuary
    Deceptistar - Sanctuary Posts: 10,454 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    Akan - Momaganon wrote: »
    A full r9.3+12 seeker will 1 hit an equal geared psy that doesn't know how to play :)
    only if you get a zerk or crit in >.>

    too many people list lucky hits like its normal... thats why some pple out there get the wrong idea that seekers are some godly OP class and complain
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  • opkossy
    opkossy Posts: 11,177 Community Moderator
    edited February 2013
    Deceptistar - Sanctuary wrote: »

    too many people list lucky hits like its normal... thats why some pple out there get the wrong idea that seekers are some godly OP class and complain

    This is especially the case when they want to claim class X or Y is overpowered.

    Talk about their high-end lucky damage and such while showcasing the low-end you have to act as though there's a much larger gap than in reality. Totally rational and unbiased!
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  • Zheii - Archosaur
    Zheii - Archosaur Posts: 2,732 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    Deceptistar - Sanctuary wrote: »
    only if you get a zerk or crit in >.>

    too many people list lucky hits like its normal... thats why some pple out there get the wrong idea that seekers are some godly OP class and complain

    Oh soooo true! I agree with you 100% I get so sick of beating someone in a 1v1 and they're like "but your a seeker" and I'm like... -.-'
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  • HerbalLife - Archosaur
    HerbalLife - Archosaur Posts: 87 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    Its funny how ppl say ''Your a seeker'' like in way ur OP anyways.
    before whole seekers update. people was always mentioning about how seekers are soo fail. things changed ~3~
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  • Cactubolo - Lost City
    Cactubolo - Lost City Posts: 11 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    Zheii - Archosaur wrote: »
    Dammit, I always fall into the troll trap Q.Q

    i seriously wasn't trolling

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