Perfect World International: The Training Grounds
TheDan - Sanctuary
Posts: 3,495 Arc User
I'm a noobie first time Wizard learning to PvP on it for the first time, please rate and comment all you pro wizards out there! I know I must have made a billion mistakes on combos etc. All feedback would be greatly appreciated, thanks!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYiElNiEu6c
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYiElNiEu6c
BM PvP Guide: pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1320761
YouTube channels: youtube.com/TheDan912 and youtube.com/TheDanPWI
YouTube channels: youtube.com/TheDan912 and youtube.com/TheDanPWI
Post edited by TheDan - Sanctuary on
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Comments
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If that was your first time ever pvping as a wiz, I think you did very well.
I thought the easiest thing you could have done that would have helped you in the fights was to take it to the air. If you don't have purify weapon, there really isn't any question that you will have a better time surviving in the air.. the bm can't stay on top of you nearly as well and you have on demand half damage whenever you want. Even though the bm can also drop for half damage anytime, most of the ways you are going to kill the bm won't really give him that option (can't drop while you're slept for ex). Even if you'd rather not fight in the air the whole time, if you notice that your fow and fortify are both on cd (and you just blinked for ex) you can double jump and hop on your mount as another kiting option. The bm will usually follow you up.. where you can then decide if you want to keep flying away or just drop back to the ground and continue on (and you've just dodged a stun + given your skills more time to cd with no cost at all). Obviously he can reel in, but that's the kind of thing that you want to save badge for.
I also think you could have benefited from using hailstorm/pitfall more often, and less undine. You want to use undine when you are trying to do a lot more damage, there were many times in the video where your fow/fortify were on cd and you undined and didn't get a single other hit off while the bm was debuffed (because you were forced to kite or were stunned).. you'd be better off using that undine cast time for a pitfall/hailstorm/pyrogram.. something with a chance to proc and that gives you chi. You could also use tactical reversion more while kiting, I really like to fow a bm.. use some skill -> tactical reversion -> blink b4 seal runs out.. works great cuz they are usually just about to get to you b4 they port back.. and then lag and by the time they get to you again blink is off cd lol. It's like 10 seconds of free hits most the time.
There are also a number of other kill ideas you might try. One of my personal favorites is to get them to ~half hp and undine -> sutra + spark -> d.pyro.. this is almost impossible to react to and a crit will almost certainly bypass them (depending on their gear, a non-crit may as well). Another really good one is to get them to half and mortal reversion, tick them with gush or w/e -> (make sure you won't get interrupted.. which means immune pot or fow or something of the like) -> sutra + spark combo. There were also a number of times where the bm was down to like less than 20% hp just before charm was about to tick.. instead of going for the kill try mortal reversion, it is almost instant and gives you extra time to finish it off in the next charm tick. You already do a pretty good job with sleep -> ulti for bypass, my only suggestion with that is be a little more picky about the times you choose to use it (you can only use once every 2 mins), I would save it until the bm is at half hp so you don't need a crit on spark BT to kill.
You should also get auto pot, remap your hotkeys, possibly delevel wind shield to level 1, and try to conserve your genie a little more, but those are all secondary concerns imo. Overall I thought you did a really good job for your first timeYoutube Channel: youtube.com/user/D2VeT/videos?flow=grid&view=0
Current gear: pwcalc.com/6ab2893fbfb080a8
[SIGPIC]http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=684hgk&s=5[/SIGPIC]0 -
Adroit - Lost City wrote: »If that was your first time ever pvping as a wiz, I think you did very well.
I thought the easiest thing you could have done that would have helped you in the fights was to take it to the air. If you don't have purify weapon, there really isn't any question that you will have a better time surviving in the air.. the bm can't stay on top of you nearly as well and you have on demand half damage whenever you want. Even though the bm can also drop for half damage anytime, most of the ways you are going to kill the bm won't really give him that option (can't drop while you're slept for ex). Even if you'd rather not fight in the air the whole time, if you notice that your fow and fortify are both on cd (and you just blinked for ex) you can double jump and hop on your mount as another kiting option. The bm will usually follow you up.. where you can then decide if you want to keep flying away or just drop back to the ground and continue on (and you've just dodged a stun + given your skills more time to cd with no cost at all). Obviously he can reel in, but that's the kind of thing that you want to save badge for.
I also think you could have benefited from using hailstorm/pitfall more often, and less undine. You want to use undine when you are trying to do a lot more damage, there were many times in the video where your fow/fortify were on cd and you undined and didn't get a single other hit off while the bm was debuffed (because you were forced to kite or were stunned).. you'd be better off using that undine cast time for a pitfall/hailstorm/pyrogram.. something with a chance to proc and that gives you chi. You could also use tactical reversion more while kiting, I really like to fow a bm.. use some skill -> tactical reversion -> blink b4 seal runs out.. works great cuz they are usually just about to get to you b4 they port back.. and then lag and by the time they get to you again blink is off cd lol. It's like 10 seconds of free hits most the time.
There are also a number of other kill ideas you might try. One of my personal favorites is to get them to ~half hp and undine -> sutra + spark -> d.pyro.. this is almost impossible to react to and a crit will almost certainly bypass them (depending on their gear, a non-crit may as well). Another really good one is to get them to half and mortal reversion, tick them with gush or w/e -> (make sure you won't get interrupted.. which means immune pot or fow or something of the like) -> sutra + spark combo. There were also a number of times where the bm was down to like less than 20% hp just before charm was about to tick.. instead of going for the kill try mortal reversion, it is almost instant and gives you extra time to finish it off in the next charm tick. You already do a pretty good job with sleep -> ulti for bypass, my only suggestion with that is be a little more picky about the times you choose to use it (you can only use once every 2 mins), I would save it until the bm is at half hp so you don't need a crit on spark BT to kill.
You should also get auto pot, remap your hotkeys, possibly delevel wind shield to level 1, and try to conserve your genie a little more, but those are all secondary concerns imo. Overall I thought you did a really good job for your first time
Sweet, thanks for the very detailed response. I've played BM since the beginning of the game and I've almost got enough money to be completely done with all of it's gear (r999 +11 good enough for me) so I've started a small fund to r999 the wizard. I just started PvPing on it 2 days ago, so I had none of my new skills besides the ones I could buy from AEU. I found a similar geared opponent to practice with. The only reason I somewhat knew what I was doing was because I've found against Wizards so much and know a little about their combos they've used on me lol.
I found myself fumbling a lot because I was constantly interrupted and stun-locked. And I really have no idea how to play a wizard in PvP. I think my biggest mistake was the ultis at half life + sleep but the undine running out so the ulti didn't bypass charm. :X
I think you've summed up just about everything I needed to know except when do you use the sandstorm / pyro / glacial snare? They take so long to channel so I haven't really used them at all in PvP except when I'm sutra'd / zooming thunder potted.BM PvP Guide: pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1320761
YouTube channels: youtube.com/TheDan912 and youtube.com/TheDanPWI0 -
1) more reversion usage, both of them.
2) i dunt play slow wiz, but i would think glacial snare even more important to use as sage, though yea long cast time.
3) fow sutra spark fire, you dont always have to use MS and Sutra/ZTP together (though yes that is a solid combo)
4) sleep spark BT after dealing some dmg, even though you did kill w/ crit.
5) be ready to cancel some ultis/big moves esp during sopophoric time.
Basic combos.
6) undine sutra fow ms spark fire
7) undine fow sutra any skill (gush) ms spark fire
8) fow sutra fire (no spark) --> ztp MS spark fire
9) seems to be some gap in time b/w sleeping and chan ulti, cant really tell though.
10) this was a very bad video because tenjio did not use a str chi suck genie to subject you to the pains of chi drain. b:kissfull r999 91% chan wizzy b:kiss
Current build: pwcalc.com/bf1f46790766e26d
LuLz: pwcalc.com/20f3fa96ab3c4dc00 -
TheDan - Sanctuary wrote: »Sweet, thanks for the very detailed response. I've played BM since the beginning of the game and I've almost got enough money to be completely done with all of it's gear (r999 +11 good enough for me) so I've started a small fund to r999 the wizard. I just started PvPing on it 2 days ago, so I had none of my new skills besides the ones I could buy from AEU. I found a similar geared opponent to practice with. The only reason I somewhat knew what I was doing was because I've found against Wizards so much and know a little about their combos they've used on me lol.
I found myself fumbling a lot because I was constantly interrupted and stun-locked. And I really have no idea how to play a wizard in PvP. I think my biggest mistake was the ultis at half life + sleep but the undine running out so the ulti didn't bypass charm. :X
I think you've summed up just about everything I needed to know except when do you use the sandstorm / pyro / glacial snare? They take so long to channel so I haven't really used them at all in PvP except when I'm sutra'd / zooming thunder potted.
haha I'd imagine it's very different going from melee classes that always chase things down to being ranged and perma kiting someone lol. If you can get kiting down, everything else is cake. I personally think that bms are the most difficult class for wizards to kill.. marrow just makes them super tanky and bms can really be obnoxious with all the cc and annoying skills they have. If you can kill bms, you should really be able to kill anything (given you practice a few times vs them.. obviously need to know what to look out for and whatnot).
The 3 skills you mentioned aren't spammed like other skills, but d.pyro should always be used in spark combo (low cast time, high damage, very short cd.. you can actually use it twice during sutra/spark).. you can also use as another chance of bypass with undine -> sleep -> d.pyro + spark, works on most anything that isn't in marrow or fire barrier. When you get ice prison, you can use ice prison in place of sleep for the same above combo. Sandstorm is kinda like a mini-ult that isn't aoe and doesn't use sparks (actually gives a little chi).. it's basically your best chance at a bypass if you are unable/unwilling to use an ult.. I generally use this to finish people off quickly in group pvp.. if I see a gush takes someone down to 60% hp or something, it's easy to then undine -> switch to jones (I use +15/+15 blessing most of the time) -> sandstorm for a quick kill. Glacial snare is almost equivalent in damage to sandstorm, just takes a bit longer to use and also has an 80% slow which is nice. I'll glacial snare in place of sandstorm in the previous combo on another wiz that is in stone barrier.. because it is water instead of earth and will do more damage. You can also use glacial snare in ground fights as a pseudo immobilize, getting hit with 80% slow means they are basically going to run in place. The only thing that sucks is that they can still use sprints or holy path and keep moving towards you (where a true immobilize will still keep them in place obviously).Youtube Channel: youtube.com/user/D2VeT/videos?flow=grid&view=0
Current gear: pwcalc.com/6ab2893fbfb080a8
[SIGPIC]http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=684hgk&s=5[/SIGPIC]0 -
I've got a lot to learn, thanks for all the tips and advance. And yeah it sucks holy path, sprints, leaps, flyers all bypass slow debuff, so even glacial snare has it's flaws; I'll be sure to be spamming pitfall and hailstorm more often.
Btw, when I eventually R999 the wizard, is it still worth having a dex genie for the spark even though badge of courage will basically be worthless with purify proc?BM PvP Guide: pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1320761
YouTube channels: youtube.com/TheDan912 and youtube.com/TheDanPWI0 -
TheDan - Sanctuary wrote: »I've got a lot to learn, thanks for all the tips and advance. And yeah it sucks holy path, sprints, leaps, flyers all bypass slow debuff, so even glacial snare has it's flaws; I'll be sure to be spamming pitfall and hailstorm more often.
Btw, when I eventually R999 the wizard, is it still worth having a dex genie for the spark even though badge of courage will basically be worthless with purify proc?
Yes, you DEFINITELY want spark for pvp.. you'd be crazy to have any other type of genie. Also badge is not useless with purify proc, I still use it frequently.. just a little different than I used to. Keep in mind that proc is not something you can count on procing at just the right time, it's an amazing thing to have for sure.. but there are many situations where you want to have a way to remove stun right away (one of many possible examples would be getting some opponent to one hit from death and then getting stunned.. unless you are getting aps'd or heavily focused chances are by the time proc goes off their charm will have already filled their hp again). Badge may not be quite as necessary as it used to be, but definitely not worthless.Youtube Channel: youtube.com/user/D2VeT/videos?flow=grid&view=0
Current gear: pwcalc.com/6ab2893fbfb080a8
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Biggest thing that I saw is you get stunned and badge out w/o even getting a charm tick. If you get hit with drake bash thats a hard hitting skill on cooldown, why not ride out the stun if you can? If you have decent ping you can blink out of range in between drake bash and roar of the pride. Everything else has pretty much been stated.
Also, wait longer to seal. Sealing a bm when he's 10m away then using undine is kind of a waste of seal time. You could undine then seal and 9/10 you'll seal him out of his stun. Nice video though[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Nurfed_You - Harshlands wrote: »Biggest thing that I saw is you get stunned and badge out w/o even getting a charm tick. If you get hit with drake bash thats a hard hitting skill on cooldown, why not ride out the stun if you can? If you have decent ping you can blink out of range in between drake bash and roar of the pride. Everything else has pretty much been stated.
Also, wait longer to seal. Sealing a bm when he's 10m away then using undine is kind of a waste of seal time. You could undine then seal and 9/10 you'll seal him out of his stun. Nice video though
Meh, if had just been bash (7.5s) I probably lived through it, but he always combo'd it with tangling mire right after so I didn't think I'd live through it. I really didn't know how much I could tank because coming from a BM that normally has 18k hp unbuffed to playing a character with only 9k I felt really vulnerable to zerk crits lol with him in my face the whole time.
After re-watching my video a few times I noticed half my FOW missed because I did it during his leap towards me so the tiger leap resisted it. =X I've got a long way to go, tons of mistakes as everyone has pointed out. xDBM PvP Guide: pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1320761
YouTube channels: youtube.com/TheDan912 and youtube.com/TheDanPWI0 -
Adroit - Lost City wrote: »I also think you could have benefited from using hailstorm/pitfall more often, and less undine. You want to use undine when you are trying to do a lot more damage, there were many times in the video where your fow/fortify were on cd and you undined and didn't get a single other hit off while the bm was debuffed (because you were forced to kite or were stunned).. you'd be better off using that undine cast time for a pitfall/hailstorm/pyrogram.. something with a chance to proc and that gives you chi.
Only a year or so behind me.
http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1294261&highlight=undine
Careful, in that post Evanera seems to disagree with you. Can we see you two fight it out?
My only real point that I am not sure has been suggested yet? Ironguard. bm in your face, you have spark on you genie, you'd be surprised how many people just stand there and spam a stun skill waiting for the ig to wear off while you pound on them.
Also, I've never had luck with spark+bt - get sage bids.0 -
BLOODTORRENT - Harshlands wrote: »Only a year or so behind me.
http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1294261&highlight=undine
Careful, in that post Evanera seems to disagree with you. Can we see you two fight it out?
My only real point that I am not sure has been suggested yet? Ironguard. bm in your face, you have spark on you genie, you'd be surprised how many people just stand there and spam a stun skill waiting for the ig to wear off while you pound on them.
Also, I've never had luck with spark+bt - get sage bids.
What makes you think this was a recent development? lmao I have never thought undine should be kept on someone 24/7, just because I comment on it after watching a video doesn't mean that the idea popped in my head 30 seconds beforehand. Anyway, I can see nothing has changed, you still are a walking example of how fallacious arguments can be used.. not going to bother responding to the obvious flame bait after this :PYoutube Channel: youtube.com/user/D2VeT/videos?flow=grid&view=0
Current gear: pwcalc.com/6ab2893fbfb080a8
[SIGPIC]http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=684hgk&s=5[/SIGPIC]0
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