Question about interval

PhantomEin - Lost City · February 2013

Hello,

I am planning to buy some aps gears but I see that all I could afford to go up to is 2.88 but I am not sure if that's worth it. My question is does the genie skill which adds 10% more attack rate turn my aps to 4.0 or 5.0?

Maelael - Heavens Tear · February 2013

The mods will most likely move your post here, but I would suggest checking here:

http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/forumdisplay.php?f=202

HrunsPanda - Archosaur · February 2013

2.88 with or without demon spark ?

This is a 0.35 seconds interval. If that is without demon spark and you would use demonspark, it would substract 25% , bringing you to 0.27, which is rounded down to 0.25 or 4 APS. That would certainly be worth it as that provides enough chi to keep your spark up pretty much all the time.

If this is without demon spark because you are sage, you can spend 10g on a boutique item + 2m on mirages to swich to demon. Or you can start a new character. b:laugh

If this is with demon spark already, the genie skill should bring your aps below 0.35 and it will then be rounded down to 0.30 for 3.33 aps. I am however not familiar with this genie skill. Did you check its duration and cooldown / energy usage. Will you be able to keep it up ? and it what cost of buying new stones to recharge the genie ?

3.33 APS is a bit halfway, its not enough to keep up your spark, but it sure does hurt em mobs a bit. For a barb like me, its a tough choise because to go APS, you are giving up the ability to use your skills and a bunch of hitpoints + defence for using LA instead of HA. For a sin, i think any APS is better than no APS.

seitori · February 2013

When my sin was at 1.69 APS my genies maxed {Relentless courage~skill} with STR enhancement on my genie) popped up my aps to 2.0+....

So my genies {RC} would be able to have popped me from a 2.88 too a 3.33 APS (Approx) max) only....

or a 3.33 to around 4.0 APS aswell....

But a 4.0 (Sage Sin) for example, should definately be able to max at around 5.0 APS for the duration of the genies skill effect (Its why I chose to go Sage with mine when I got it there, cause of the knowledge that a 500% damage Sage (3*spark) at a 5.0 APS will be a nightmare to nearly anyone I attacked, once I get mine to a 4.0 APS after I've leveled it finally to the proper level for the Int. gear mixture) Plus Sage skills during that time will be even more nasty to hit with)....

Hope thats a help to ya...b:thanks

SaphiraDemon - Archosaur · February 2013

HrunsPanda - Archosaur wrote: »

If this is without demon spark because you are sage, you can spend 10g on a boutique item + 2m on mirages to swich to demon. Or you can start a new character. b:laugh

Saddly not helpful to the OP, but, this just kinda makes me want to switch servers b:surrender

Seriously, if you think all there is to a sin is aps, the you're going fail pretty hard at a bunch of things. I don't know how many sins have committed suicide on my bramble in NW by trying to aps me, only to pm me "gf" when they die... when I did nothing to fight back. Sage sins can be pretty scary though, and most of the sage sins I've seen know their class a bit better than the masses of demon sins. b:shocked

skaitavia · February 2013

Moved to sin subforums.

HrunsPanda - Archosaur · February 2013

SaphiraDemon - Archosaur wrote: »

Saddly not helpful to the OP, but, this just kinda makes me want to switch servers b:surrender

Seriously, if you think all there is to a sin is aps, the you're going fail pretty hard at a bunch of things. I don't know how many sins have committed suicide on my bramble in NW by trying to aps me, only to pm me "gf" when they die... when I did nothing to fight back. Sage sins can be pretty scary though, and most of the sage sins I've seen know their class a bit better than the masses of demon sins. b:shocked

Im sorry, i have to admit, i know absolutely nothing about sins. And i have no idea what sage sins can do. My main is a barb, and i have veno, seeker and wizz alts who are all below lvl 80. I just posted this because i want to make my barb APS but i am sage, so the swiching thing is a problem i have myself and the OP seems to be pretty low on APS, so i thought it may be his problem as well

Walpurga - Dreamweaver · February 2013

http://pwcalc.com/65d69d978c7f419d

should be able to get away with **** thorns until you get rich enough for pan gu
windshield would bring that to 4.0. it would also bring 2.86 to 3.33

(game rounds to set breakpoints)

Sakubatou - Sanctuary · February 2013

Wow... this thread is already a **** shoot. To answer your question, yes 4 aps with 10% boost gives you 5 aps.

First off, interval amounts are 1.25, 1.33, 1.43, 1.54, 1.67, 1.82, 2.00, 2.22, 2.5, 2.86, 3.33, 4.0, 5.0. These attacks per second are actually based off seconds per attack. So 1.25 aps is actually .8 seconds per attack and -int effects this. The game actually uses the sec/attack instead of aps. So if you have .8 sec/attack (dagger base attack rate) and triple spark for 25% increase to attack speed its .8 s/a x 75% = .6 s/a or 1.67 aps. Your question is does 4 aps (.25 s/a) become 5 aps with a 10% increase. .25 x .9 = .225 s/a which is right in the middle of .25 and .2 so the game rounds it to the faster attack speed of .2, or 5 aps.

Second, attack speed effects don't stack. You can't use demon sparks 25% attack speed and Windshield for another 10% they won't stack, instead the 10% overbuffs the 25%. You never wrote whether you were sage or demon.

Seitori recommended Relentless Courage. Don't do that. Actually, most his advice was horrible. Use Windshield instead. Relentless Courage is strength based, and uses your entire genie stamina for an 8 second 5% aps boost. Windshield gives you a 10% boost, is spammable for continuous attack speed, and reduces damage. The reduced damage will however overwrite any sage spark. Btw... 4/5 aps sage sins aren't really a threat to anyone but poorly geared casters. Being hit with G13 Barrier Thorns for 150 damage isn't that scary.

Hruns, toss up a thread in Barb forums about sage aps. Would be glad to consider it with you and talk about possible gear setups.

seitori · February 2013

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

Wow... this thread is already a **** shoot. To answer your question, yes 4 aps with 10% boost gives you 5 aps.

First off, interval amounts are 1.25, 1.33, 1.43, 1.54, 1.67, 1.82, 2.00, 2.5, 3.33, 4.0, 5.0. These attacks per second are actually based off seconds per attack. So 1.25 aps is actually .8 seconds per attack and -int effects this. The game actually uses the sec/attack instead of aps. So if you have .8 sec/attack (dagger base attack rate) and triple spark for 25% increase to attack speed its .8 s/a x 75% = .6 s/a or 1.67 aps. Your question is does 4 aps (.25 s/a) become 5 aps with a 10% increase. .25 x .9 = .225 s/a which is right in the middle of .25 and .2 so the game rounds it to the faster attack speed of .2, or 5 aps.

Second, attack speed effects don't stack. You can't use demon sparks 25% attack speed and Windshield for another 10% they won't stack, instead the 10% overbuffs the 25%. You never wrote whether you were sage or demon.

Seitori recommended Relentless Courage. Don't do that. Actually, most his advice was horrible. Use Windshield instead. Relentless Courage is strength based, and uses your entire genie stamina for an 8 second 5% aps boost. Windshield gives you a 10% boost, is spammable for continuous attack speed, and reduces damage. The reduced damage will however overwrite any sage spark. Btw... 4/5 aps sage sins aren't really a threat to anyone but poorly geared casters. Being hit with G13 Barrier Thorns for 150 damage isn't that scary.

Hruns, toss up a thread in Barb forums about sage aps. Would be glad to consider it with you and talk about possible gear setups.

Excuse ME? I didn't suggest at all that he use genies {RC} skill, He asked what enhancements the genies skill give for a SINs APS!? So i gave him an idea what {RC} gives to 1s APS and thats all, you obviously like to self-Abloviate & talk sh** about others for no good reason (other than) so you can try and feel big about yourself, now don't you.....b:chuckle

As for whether to use {WS} thats true in what you say, ALL of IT, including the nerfing overwrite of sage spark, and you wonder why I choose {RC} as a sage sin (your own words made my reasons clear for why I choose it over {WS} for my Sage sin)....b:pleased

And as for Sage Sins only being effective against, poorly equipped casters... WTF RU talking about?! I seriously want what you've been smoking there.... My R6 Sage has already killed (1-R8 & 1-R9 VENO's in NW "who thought bramble and purge would help them and make me kill myself" (sux when I kept them stunned and had invuln. powders AD & 3sparks invulns one after another) they went bye bye B4 their nixes could return; I've also off'd an R9 cleric and r8 Wiz aswell as others, so take your Overblown self-worth Quirks & Cynisisms and shove it along with the rest of your self-absorbed (Aren't I the Best) ignorant attitude....

I gave the OP info on the skills enhancements of one of the 2 skills genies have to offer for it pleeb, and nothing more then that....b:kissb:bye

((And don't give me the BS! About the show the PICs or it didn't happen bit! Or you'll make me Laugh!!! Pleebs like you are the ones who're constantly trying to boast about **** you supposidely do in game & not people like me))..b:dirty Ta Taaaa!! Loud mouthed Pleebage....

PS: (OP) I'm sorry for having to put the flaming wannabe snipe in his place on your thread, I was seriously trying to give you the idea of what 1 of the genie skills do for a sins APS (B4 what the WHITLESS One was arrogantly & misleadingly trying to enfure) ~_~'

PPS: {Flamer} I'll thank you for telling him about the {WS} skill and its enhancements compared to {RC} short of mouthing off and miss-casting what I said to the (OP) about just the {RC} skill; you actually did a good job, explaining {WS} for him.... There now, aren't you happy now? I complimented you for most your post ((Now if only you'd stop deliberately trying to Miss-Represent what others were trying to say & do to help someone try and get an idea about the aps enhancements and how high they can (only/actually) boost))..

=================================================

BTW (OP): Heres the basic skill stats for both of them at (level 1) stats for a comparison>>>

Windshield:

Requirements=(35 energy / 150 stamina) 8 second duration (1 second cooldown)> "A plus over {RC}"
(Air & ground only skill)
-7% Damage Reduction (Every 8 Dex points added increases protection by 1%)
-10% Increased Attack speed & Evasion (No enhancements past the original 10%'s)
-(Every 50 Dex points increases skill Duration by 1 second.)

Relentless Courage:

Requirements=(50 energy / 80 stamina) 3.5 second duration "But extends (0.5 seconds) for every level the skills at, so 'level-10' raises its duration to (8 seconds) aswell" (30 second cooldown)
(Usable anywhere)
-5% Attack speed & movement speeds (+1% increase of attack & movement speeds for every 4
Strength points added) "best used on an infliction genie for its higher Str rating"
-5% Channeling speed enhancement "Useless for sins" (every 15 Dex increases it by 1%)

((So as you can see, they both have their advantages aswell as places they lack at)) "But my sins infliction currently has a {RC} 'APS Boost' of its genies skill of 21% currently (at its 91st level status))

"I can truly understand why some would choose {WS} over {RC} for Defense increase bonuses & spamability... But otherwise in the long run {RC} is the much more powerful APS Boosting skill then {WS} is ever able to become, as you & your genie both progress, so let the stats speak and not me and the nay sayer..."

But remember, I'm still only handing you this information for you to see it and not suggesting you use the {RC} skill (I'm only trying to show you that what my detractor tried to say is not exactly accurate in {WS's} absolute superiority over {RC}~ If anything I'd suggest if your not a sage sin, that you use 2 genies (1-with {WS} & 1-with {RC}) so you can see which 1 suits you and (your fighting style) best, as a sin player, though both skills will have their own situations that they're better in...

Well have a good 1.... ^V^

Olbaze - Sanctuary · February 2013

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

First off, interval amounts are 1.25, 1.33, 1.43, 1.54, 1.67, 1.82, 2.00, 2.5, 3.33, 4.0, 5.0. These attacks per second are actually based off seconds per attack.

You're missing 2.86.

opkossy · February 2013

Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »

You're missing 2.86.

And 2.22... and the bottom half you'd get via using chill of the deep but that are completely irrelevant here because you wouldn't be using chill to auto-attack anyways unless you're being incredibly lazy or don't know what you're doing.

Edit: Almost forgot the topic at hand.

No you will not get 4.0 or 5.0 from a 10% boost at 2.86. You'd only get to 3.33 from that point unless you were either using demon spark (25% boost) or relentless courage (which would only last for 8 seconds and cannot be spammed).

As for the genie skill debate... Wind Shield is superior to Relentless in any case where you'd want a sustainable boost. The only places relentless is ever better is if you're in the water for whatever reason, or if you only want the one-time boost. Aside from those scenarios, Wind Shield will always come out as the better genie skill to use.

Zanryu - Dreamweaver · February 2013

OPKossy wrote: »

And 2.22... and the bottom half you'd get via using chill of the deep but that are completely irrelevant here because you wouldn't be using chill to auto-attack anyways unless you're being incredibly lazy or don't know what you're doing.

Or maybe they're balls to the wall badass ultra guy who doesn't need high APS. BotWBUG is a total beast, don't mess with him Kossy.

skaitavia · February 2013

Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »

You're missing 2.86.

Olbaze! Where have you been? It's been a while b:cute

But on topic, everything seems answered.

Sakubatou - Sanctuary · February 2013

Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »

You're missing 2.86.

Thanks, I'll edit that in. Funny enough, people saying 2.88 and 1.69 were the reasons I wrote the list in the first place yet I forgot 2.86.

OPKossy wrote: »

As for the genie skill debate... Wind Shield is superior to Relentless in any case where you'd want a sustainable boost. The only places relentless is ever better is if you're in the water for whatever reason, or if you only want the one-time boost. Aside from those scenarios, Wind Shield will always come out as the better genie skill to use.

Good advice^^

seitori wrote: »

Rambling nonsense in 14 different fonts, bad font color, bad punctuation, and improper use of words they don't understand.

Struggled through reading a second post of yours...

Correcting bad advice is not trolling or flaming. Its cleaning up the forums of posts that have a negative impact on gameplay.

In almost everycase, the 10% boost of Windshield is 1 step of aps more. In almost every case Relentless Courage is only 1 step more. Even when you have 80-100 strength on your genie, giving you a 15-20% aps boost it usually is still the same improvement because its not enough to hit the next breakpoint. The difference is Relentless Courage is not spammable because it has a 30 second cd and empties your genie of its energy (140 req). Windshield can be used as both a defensive manuever when unsparked, and the same aps boost 95% of the time and only uses 62 energy (leave at level 1 so you can spam). It then can be combined with skills like Extreme Poison for further dps gain and paint heals.

The comment about 4/5 aps sage sins not being a threat in pk against HA is not because they're sage sin. You missed the point (again). It because a 4 aps sage sin is using Barrier Thorns and aps gear but Barrier Thorns don't hit very hard and aps gear is pretty squishy in pk. They're one shots on just about any decently geared class. I'd be much more afraid of an sin with lower aps but more dph and more defenses.

So... You say I'm bloviate (actually, you said Abloviate...) overblown, and louadmouthed, then write a page and a half in a dozen fonts and 4 different colors. You call me about a dozen names while saying I'm the flamer. I say G13s aren't much of a threat to anyone but poorly geared casters and you brag about killing R8 venos, clerics, and wizards and end with "Pleebs like you are the ones who're constantly trying to boast about **** you supposidely do in game & not people like me". Called me whitless and arrogant, the irony of misspelling witless. And you did this all while contributing almost nothing to the conversation. Brilliant work.

Zolor - Harshlands · February 2013

at the moment my sin is 2.5 aps base and sage, I'm missing the -int tome or I would be 2.86 aps and getting that soon, but anyway, I have RC on genie and it pushes me to 4 aps from 2.5 aps, and it basically lasts most of the spark and the length of Power Dash. I don't know the maths but i believe that once I become 2.86 the same RC on my genie will push me to 5 aps ?
and most bosses die in one spark nowadays, so you have 5aps, sage bp, sage dagger devotion and sage spark damage decrease since RC doesn't affect damage taken like windshield. This is my gear set up atm http://pwcalc.com/ba84eb8df3eca186

but its true that it basically makes your genie useless. If you are in a squad then you don't need it for anything else since most others have Mire and EP on theirs.

but please...don't everyone flock to sage now b:surrender b:laugh

HrunsPanda - Archosaur · February 2013

Zolor - Harshlands wrote: »

I have RC on genie and it pushes me to 4 aps from 2.5 aps, and it basically lasts most of the spark and the length of Power Dash. I don't know the maths but i believe that once I become 2.86 the same RC on my genie will push me to 5 aps ?

It depends on the genie qualities.

If it brings you from 0.4 interval to 0.25, that means it reduces interval at least 26%. That way, it is more than 0.1 reduction and your interval gets rounded down to 0.25. A 84str genie could do this.

To bring you from 0.35 to 0.2, you again need >0.1 reduction but now you need 29% for that since the base is only 0.35. So 96 str on the genie is needed now. I might be off by a little if there is some other rounding in the games math, then it could be that you need 100str maybe.

Olbaze - Sanctuary · February 2013

HrunsPanda - Archosaur wrote: »

If it brings you from 0.4 interval to 0.25, that means it reduces interval at least 26%. That way, it is more than 0.1 reduction and your interval gets rounded down to 0.25. A 84str genie could do this.

To bring you from 0.35 to 0.2, you again need >0.1 reduction but now you need 29% for that since the base is only 0.35. So 96 str on the genie is needed now. I might be off by a little if there is some other rounding in the games math, then it could be that you need 100str maybe.

Sorry to say this, but your numbers are off. Mostly because the game rounds to nearest 0.05, with only rounding down in cases of being in the middle.

As you said, going from 2.5 aps to 4.0 is the same as reducing your interval from 0.4 to 0.25. However, you said it requires a 26% reduction. 74% of 0.4 is 2.96, which would bring you to 0.3, not 0.25. The game rounds to an accuracy of 0.05, so you need to get to at 0.275 or less. This in turn means that you need a reduction of 1 - (0.275/0.4) = ~32%. Since Relentless Courage starts at 5% and gets 1% more for every 5 strength, you will need a total of 108 strength for this.

On the other hand, to get from 0.35 to 0.2, you only need to get from 0.35 to 0.225, which ends up being a reduction of 1 - (0.225/0.35) = ~36%. Here, you would need your genie to have a total of 124 strength.

Olbaze! Where have you been? It's been a while

Well, I picked up *removed* 2 in October. After that, my PC decided to celebrate the Sirens of War expansion by randomly deciding that my antivirus would no more co-operate with the game. A month later, when I started getting problems with *removed* 2, I ended up switching to a different antivirus, which fixed PWI for me. Since I haven't been playing a lot recently, I also haven't been posting a lot.

HrunsPanda - Archosaur · February 2013

Are you sure of that ? As far as i know it always rounds down to the next lower 0.05, never up.

Olbaze - Sanctuary · February 2013

HrunsPanda - Archosaur wrote: »

Are you sure of that ? As far as i know it always rounds down to the next lower 0.05, never up.

Well, I just logged in with my Sage Sin and tested Windshield with 1.82 aps.

0.55 * 0.9 = 0.495

And as expected, I ended up at 2 aps, or 0.5 interval. Not 2.22, or 0.45.

Similarly, I was able to confirm that at 1.54 (0.65), the 10% amp puts me at 1.67 (0.6) and not 1.82. That is, 0.585 rounds up to 0.6. In comparison, I go from 4.0 aps to 5.0 with Windshield, so 0.225 rounds down. Finally, using Windshield at 1.43 put me at 1.54, so 0.63 also rounds up.

So now we know that the rounding changes between 0.025 and 0.03. I think that's pretty much my point.

skaitavia · February 2013

Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »

Well, I picked up *removed* 2 in October. After that, my PC decided to celebrate the Sirens of War expansion by randomly deciding that my antivirus would no more co-operate with the game. A month later, when I started getting problems with *removed* 2, I ended up switching to a different antivirus, which fixed PWI for me. Since I haven't been playing a lot recently, I also haven't been posting a lot.

Ah I see. Antivirus can be a pain sometimes. If you're going to be around, then glad to see you back!

HrunsPanda - Archosaur wrote: »

Are you sure of that ? As far as i know it always rounds down to the next lower 0.05, never up.

Most definitely. Olbaze has known PWI interval math for so long now that I trust him when it comes to APS standards.

I have a playful 124 str genie with RC, and I've tested it there. With 123 str, RC boosts me from 2.86 APS with my interval gear with R9 daggers to 4.0 APS, and with 124 str, it boosted me from 2.86 to 5.0.

Question about interval

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