Do support classes get screwed over?

Zsw - Dreamweaver · February 2013

Hello everyone,

It has come to my attention that the top 3 ways to score points in Nation wars is to one, take damage, two, deal damage, and three, kill people. A support class does none of that, except maybe take damage, but they aren't tanks so its their goal to avoid damage and not to take it.

Venomancers purge and amp, clerics and mystics heal or debuff, and bms stun. It does not appear that any of these actions give contribution, yet they are so invaluable. There is absolutely no way we can take down full third cast +12 people with full josds unless they're purged, debuffed, and stunned. We can't possibly go head to head with squads of R9s unless we have our trusty cleric/mystic to back us up with heals. Yet to ensure our success, these people have to give up all contribution?

Support classes are the backbone of any good PvP squad. You can have 10 extremely powerful DDs, but put them up against a properly supported squad and they would drop easily. Yet, all the credits for a kill goes to the DDs, while so much more should be given to the supports. That doesn't make any sense.

Is this an oversight on PWI's part or am I missing something here? With the help of our veno and cleric, I eliminated multiple r9 third cast DDs, and I possibly did not die a single time. Yet I scored so much more contribution in the end. What are the chances of me taking down a fully buffed, full r9 +12, fully jaded caster solo? Probably close to 0%?

I want to ask everyone, how do we credit the support classes of our squad? Do we just let them become another DD? Or is there something that I am not seeing? If you play regularly as a support in TW/PK, do you change your playstyle for NW? Please let me know of any strategies that you guys use.

Thanks in advance!

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands · February 2013

People need to learn to play differently in NW. Everyone have attack skills and can DD.

Melami - Heavens Tear · February 2013

Correct me if i'm wrong but I thought buffing people and healing earned you points as well?

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands · February 2013

Melami - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Correct me if i'm wrong but I thought buffing people and healing earned you points as well?

Some people say heal does, but we actually don't know for sure. I don't think buff does give poitns.

OontzOontz - Dreamweaver · February 2013

Or you can be nice and give them a share of your loot.

Zsw - Dreamweaver · February 2013

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands wrote: »

People need to learn to play differently in NW. Everyone have attack skills and can DD.

I know support classes can DD. However, as a squad, we can survive much better if our support classes focused more on their support role as opposed to DDing. This is the problem that I have with nation wars.

So by your response, I take it that you go full metal mage mode for NW?

OontzOontz - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Or you can be nice and give them a share of your loot.

I can't give them loot if they need the tokens it self. It's untradeable.
P.S. I did offer to give them loot. But i think it's still nice if they can earn it without relying on others.

Why do 4 people fight against 20 others and win? No supports from the 20.

Melami - Heavens Tear · February 2013

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands wrote: »

Some people say heal does, but we actually don't know for sure. I don't think buff does give poitns.

I wish it did, maybe enough points to where it could matter and to where it could not be abused.
But thank you ^^

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands · February 2013

Zsw - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I know support classes can DD. However, as a squad, we can survive much better if our support classes focused more on their support role as opposed to DDing. This is the problem that I have with nation wars.

So by your response, I take it that you go full metal mage mode for NW?

I can't give them loot if they need the tokens it self. It's untradeable.
P.S. I did offer to give them loot. But i think it's still nice if they can earn it without relying on others.

Why do 4 people fight against 20 others and win? No supports from the 20.

Personally if I was going on cleric and people wasn't share the reward, I would DD, why would a cleric pass is time to heal other people for other people to get more reward while they get nothing themselves? If the squad don't agree to share than they don't deserver to get heal constantly.

If they can save someone by heal yes, but I mean I would not pass other people reward before my own.

Northern - Dreamweaver · February 2013

Idk we are a husband wife duo- me bm and he is a wizard. I have r8 recast all +7 and all vit gemed. He has r9 and final cast weapon +11. Tonite in the same nation I managed to get 50 more tokens than him although we were in the majority of the same battles. In no way shape or form did I outdamage him or out kill him. I do have a ton of life due to being all vit gemed so I am sure I took more dmg. Anyways, I am support and I actually ended up with more tokens so go figure.

P.s. **** u clerics and venos who won't buff people and thanks to those few that do .

Shardik - Lost City · February 2013

Northern - Dreamweaver wrote: »

P.s. **** u clerics and venos who won't buff people and thanks to those few that do .

Righteous there b:chuckle.

Cleric y u no buff us!!!??b:angryb:cry

Savor - Lost City · February 2013

I'm a support class and I got 429 tokens in NW tonight.

Sel_Darkmore - Dreamweaver · February 2013

Well when our cleric didnt get any tokens with their 3k contributions we simply donated some cannys and make a g15 pair b:victory

Ois - Lost City · February 2013

Savor - Lost City wrote: »

I'm a support class and I got 429 tokens in NW tonight.

Anyone who is a magic class r9r no longer should be classified as support in NW. Purify wep+500 people hitting you makes you more of a flag-bearing GM class than anything. b:angry

Only way to stop you fkers is to 3 spark and get way ahead of everyone else chasing the flag-bearer and even then it's almost impossible. b:sad

RunningTiger - Dreamweaver · February 2013

As far as I know it isn't actually confirmed, but it seems to hold true. You need to be in 3 winning battles or you don't get tokens regardless of contri.

Often I start out on one toon and then that nation ends up getting locked so I leave,account stash, and change toons. As far as I can remeber the initial toon seems to get tokens as long as I stayed long enough for the three winning battles even if only a very small amount.

Nariin - Dreamweaver · February 2013

Healing does give you contribution, I've tested it, but I don't think buffing/debuffing does. Also you forgot about soulforce.
I think support classes get plenty of chance to attack as well (maybe not at lower levels and of course not as much as DD classes). But if you buff and heal your allies may survive longer and your battle get better scores and your nation has better chance to win, thus get more tokens. I think with getting attacked, healing and decent soulforce you can score well and get a good share of points even withought op gears.

Randomly buffing/healing people doesn't really work though as most have filters on.

Zsw - Dreamweaver · February 2013

Savor - Lost City wrote: »

I'm a support class and I got 429 tokens in NW tonight.

Would you care to elaborate? I'm assuming you're playing Venomancer and not your Barbarian since that is the account you're posting on. So do you still perform your support role or do you mostly DD? Or just throw yourself in a bunch of people and let them hit you?

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands · February 2013

RunningTiger - Dreamweaver wrote: »

As far as I know it isn't actually confirmed, but it seems to hold true. You need to be in 3 winning battles or you don't get tokens regardless of contri.

Not true, I've been in the losing Nation and got tokens. I guess just the people with low contribution don't get tokens. (like 2k and less)

Nariin - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Healing does give you contribution, I've tested it, but I don't think buffing/debuffing does. Also you forgot about soulforce.
I think support classes get plenty of chance to attack as well (maybe not at lower levels and of course not as much as DD classes). But if you buff and heal your allies may survive longer and your battle get better scores and your nation has better chance to win, thus get more tokens. I think with getting attacked, healing and decent soulforce you can score well and get a good share of points even withought op gears.

I really doubt so or that don't worth it, our cleric did got 30 tokens while the rest of the squad got over 100 tokens, so if healing does give points it's really lower than dealing damage points.

Nariin - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Randomly buffing/healing people doesn't really work though as most have filters on.

^ That when I'm on my veno IF there's no enemies or almost none I'll try to buff, but in the fight I won't lose my time in pm convo telling dumb people that if they ask bramble to turn off their buff-filter, it's really annoying.

Seriously these day EVERYONE have that annoying thing on, you can't even anymore saving people with expel cause of that. They should change expel to be a self cast buff, people will be happy to don't need anymore to select themselves to use it.

Nariin - Dreamweaver · February 2013

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands wrote: »

I really doubt so or that don't worth it, our cleric did got 30 tokens while the rest of the squad got over 100 tokens, so if healing does give points it's really lower than dealing damage points.

Well I doubt cleric is able to heal as much damage as others can DD. For once, you can attack anyone, cleric can only heal squad and you can deal more dmg then enemy has HP, but cleric can't heal more HP then squad lacks. So I think if dmg dealt/received/healed gets same contribution (though I doubt) healing would still get the least.

Zsw - Dreamweaver · February 2013

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands wrote: »

Personally if I was going on cleric and people wasn't share the reward, I would DD, why would a cleric pass is time to heal other people for other people to get more reward while they get nothing themselves? If the squad don't agree to share than they don't deserver to get heal constantly.

If they can save someone by heal yes, but I mean I would not pass other people reward before my own.

But you think that it's perfectly fine this way? I mean if no venos purged, how do you take down full r9 +12 DDs? I mean, i think clerics, as a class, has its potential limited this way =/

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands · February 2013

Zsw - Dreamweaver wrote: »

But you think that it's perfectly fine this way? I mean if no venos purged, how do you take down full r9 +12 DDs? I mean, i think clerics, as a class, has its potential limited this way =/

I don't say to a veno to don't purge or amp, that would be stupid to don't do it cause veno themselves won't be able take down R999+12 if they don't.

SMASHnHEAL - Dreamweaver · February 2013

Zsw - Dreamweaver wrote: »

But you think that it's perfectly fine this way? I mean if no venos purged, how do you take down full r9 +12 DDs? I mean, i think clerics, as a class, has its potential limited this way =/

And how would you suggest giving contribution for these sort of actions? a cleric could run around debuffing people or a veno purging/amping, however if no one were to hit the targets after then nothing has been contributed to the battle - it is too hard to say just how much that amp or that purge or that debuff actually achieved. And as it already has been mentioned, healing does gain contribution albeit a small amount and is only based on the amount of HP recovered on a target so pwi hasn't completely missed the "support" aspect of nation wars.

Each class is not completely balanced in all aspects of the game so, you may as well just make it so that everybody gains the same amount of tokens each time. And at the end of the day most people go into Nation Wars and end up pking the whole time anyway, I rarely actually see people go after the flag carrier to stop them, let alone purge/debuff etc as a team...

Bhavyy - Raging Tide · February 2013

Okay so this thread is a clear example of what is wrong with the mentality of how people play during nw.

Yes to maximise your own personal contribution you need to take a lot of damage and deal a lot of damage.

But this doesn't mean everyone should DD or that support classes get screwed over.

The best way for you to maximise YOUR REWARD is not the same as maximising your personal contribution. It is to win land and keep it.
Work as a team and everyone benefits. It's really as simple as that. People need to stop treating it like it's solely a pk instance or as if its tw where they can get away with killing lots of people.

I've actually been in battles where we've lost (not many) because my squad wouldn't stop pking. Yes this is great for our contribution but if that land is vital to blocking a nation off from your base it's especially beneficial to win rather than maximise your contribution.

It's not as if a cleric can't DD without metal mode. And it's not as if venos need to or even have the ability to purge and amp every single enemy they face because its just not efficient. Bms have more than just stuns and other classes can stun for just as long faster than a bm can.

People need to realise that it's not about getting loads of confribution and it's not like their performance in nw has no effect on their nations performance. The scores of a nation are not predecided.

Also if a battle lasts longer you get more contribution. I'm can't remember if this is significant compared to other ways of gaining contribution but I just though id mention it

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands · February 2013

Bhavyy - Raging Tide wrote: »

Okay so this thread is a clear example of what is wrong with the mentality of how people play during nw.

Yes to maximise your own personal contribution you need to take a lot of damage and deal a lot of damage.

But this doesn't mean everyone should DD or that support classes get screwed over.

The best way for you to maximise YOUR REWARD is not the same as maximising your personal contribution. It is to win land and keep it.
Work as a team and everyone benefits. It's really as simple as that. People need to stop treating it like it's solely a pk instance or as if its tw where they can get away with killing lots of people.

I've actually been in battles where we've lost (not many) because my squad wouldn't stop pking. Yes this is great for our contribution but if that land is vital to blocking a nation off from your base it's especially beneficial to win rather than maximise your contribution.

It's not as if a cleric can't DD without metal mode. And it's not as if venos need to or even have the ability to purge and amp every single enemy they face because its just not efficient. Bms have more than just stuns and other classes can stun for just as long faster than a bm can.

People need to realise that it's not about getting loads of confribution and it's not like their performance in nw has no effect on their nations performance. The scores of a nation are not predecided.

Also if a battle lasts longer you get more contribution. I'm can't remember if this is significant compared to other ways of gaining contribution but I just though id mention it

I agree yes and no. Yes be in the winning Nation matter for the reward, but if you have 1,5k contribution even in the winning Nation you will get **** reward.

Unfortunately they obviously didn't think about thing like cleric role. Veno can purge and amplify and have enough time to DD during the CD. I have purge/amp/debuff on my veno and get over 100 tokens so veno even as support doesn't lose really.

And as someone mentioned a LOTTTTT of people have the buff-filter constantly on, So a cleric that is not in a squad will not be able to heal/buff anyone cause people don't take the buff-filter off for NW.

Asking cleric to heal/buff to make the Nation win while they get **** reward cause they don't DD is selfish if the reward of the team is not shared (even worse for a cleric not in squad). We don't speak about a difference of 5 tokens, it's a difference of over 50 tokens, as I said in a previous post the cleric in our squad get 30 tokens while everyone else get 150 tokens, is it fair? No, it's not with 30 tokens each NW that the poor cleric will be able to upgrade their gears, that doesn't even pay for a charm.

Put yourself in a cleric place 5 minutes, you pay a hp charm around 9m and a mp charm 5 cause you know cleric can't use plume shell without a charm, buy mp/hp pots, apo pots, so let's say that cost you 15m, you go in NW, don't have a squad, as nice little cleric try to heal/buff people, pm 99% of them to ask them to turn off their buff-filter, die to a sin while you type, but you get in the winning nation YAY, you got 30 tokens, 30 tokens = around 6.75m, so you basically paid to do Nation war.

I really pity clerics that go in squad without share of reward or even worse cleric that go solo and heal/buff and getting **** to please other people that doesn't take one minute to think that the cleric they yell at to heal/buff make 0 profit and even need to pay money to actually do the event.

FatherTed - Dreamweaver · February 2013

RunningTiger - Dreamweaver wrote: »

As far as I know it isn't actually confirmed, but it seems to hold true. You need to be in 3 winning battles or you don't get tokens regardless of contri.

Often I start out on one toon and then that nation ends up getting locked so I leave,account stash, and change toons. As far as I can remeber the initial toon seems to get tokens as long as I stayed long enough for the three winning battles even if only a very small amount.

I've received token rewards in wars where I was only part of one winning battle. Got called into work one Friday night 40 minutes after NW started, so only had time to participate in 3 battles. 1 win, 2 loses. Scored about 1800 points total, and still got a reward. Not a very big one of course, but it was somewhere in the area of 30ish tokens.

Zsw - Dreamweaver · February 2013

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands wrote: »

I don't say to a veno to don't purge or amp, that would be stupid to don't do it cause veno themselves won't be able take down R999+12 if they don't.

Even if they do, other DDs will do a far better job of doing so, and most likely will get the contribution while the veno will get little to none. That's a problem.

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands wrote: »

I agree yes and no. Yes be in the winning Nation matter for the reward, but if you have 1,5k contribution even in the winning Nation you will get **** reward.

Unfortunately they obviously didn't think about thing like cleric role. Veno can purge and amplify and have enough time to DD during the CD. I have purge/amp/debuff on my veno and get over 100 tokens so veno even as support doesn't lose really.

And as someone mentioned a LOTTTTT of people have the buff-filter constantly on, So a cleric that is not in a squad will not be able to heal/buff anyone cause people don't take the buff-filter off for NW.

Asking cleric to heal/buff to make the Nation win while they get **** reward cause they don't DD is selfish if the reward of the team is not shared (even worse for a cleric not in squad). We don't speak about a difference of 5 tokens, it's a difference of over 50 tokens, as I said in a previous post the cleric in our squad get 30 tokens while everyone else get 150 tokens, is it fair? No, it's not with 30 tokens each NW that the poor cleric will be able to upgrade their gears, that doesn't even pay for a charm.

Put yourself in a cleric place 5 minutes, you pay a hp charm around 9m and a mp charm 5 cause you know cleric can't use plume shell without a charm, buy mp/hp pots, apo pots, so let's say that cost you 15m, you go in NW, don't have a squad, as nice little cleric try to heal/buff people, pm 99% of them to ask them to turn off their buff-filter, die to a sin while you type, but you get in the winning nation YAY, you got 30 tokens, 30 tokens = around 6.75m, so you basically paid to do Nation war.

I really pity clerics that go in squad without share of reward or even worse cleric that go solo and heal/buff and getting **** to please other people that doesn't take one minute to think that the cleric they yell at to heal/buff make 0 profit and even need to pay money to actually do the event.

That's why I think support classes are screwed over. They should earn tokens for playing a support role, and not only a DD role. They should earn the token for healing/buffing. But they are not at the moment.

SMASHnHEAL - Dreamweaver wrote: »

And how would you suggest giving contribution for these sort of actions? a cleric could run around debuffing people or a veno purging/amping, however if no one were to hit the targets after then nothing has been contributed to the battle - it is too hard to say just how much that amp or that purge or that debuff actually achieved. And as it already has been mentioned, healing does gain contribution albeit a small amount and is only based on the amount of HP recovered on a target so pwi hasn't completely missed the "support" aspect of nation wars.

Each class is not completely balanced in all aspects of the game so, you may as well just make it so that everybody gains the same amount of tokens each time. And at the end of the day most people go into Nation Wars and end up pking the whole time anyway, I rarely actually see people go after the flag carrier to stop them, let alone purge/debuff etc as a team...

Actually, even if no one hit the target after the purge, it still contributes to the battle because either the target must waste time getting rebuffed, or they will die easier later on. Clerics could account for contribution based on HP healed. Each class definitely cannot do everything. But if you have a good combination of classes, then as a squad you can do alot more. It's unfortunate that you don't get to see a lot of good squads. Yet, this lack of contribution distribution is the very reason why people pk instead of purging.

Aeliah - Dreamweaver · February 2013

I know this doesn't work for a lot of clerics, but I get phenomenally good contributions. Healing does give some contribution, though not as much as:

-tanking damage
-dealing damage

Fortunately for me, my gear is at the point where I can do all 3 at once. The person I heal is MYSELF. I do this by going to where there are the most enemies, tanking a lot of them, and then killing them off as my weapon purifies me, or, even more simply, getting a **** ton of them to chase me and firing off an aoe or two. This helps my side in the instance win, because if 5 or 6 enemies are chasing me, thats 5 or 6 enemies that aren't chasing, say, the flag carrier. Or, the enemies get so focused on me they don't notice my squad mates coming to my assistance, and pew pew 6 enemies die.

When do I choose specifically to heal instead of tank or deal damage?

1) when the fight is a really close one --> aka, up against a squad as strong or stronger than my own, I'll fall back into a more pure support role. Thing is, when fighting stronger people, my squad mates TAKE more damage, so I get to HEAL more damage too. Because in a war that close, if my team mates fall, the battle is lost.

2) when assisting flag puller who has lots of enemies trying to take him down. The flag carrier is getting hammered with damage, so my heal contribution from spam healing HIM is also good.

3) whenever I notice somebody's hp near half, a heal or two to top them up is ok contribution and also likely to benefit them, and doesn't take much of my time. Naturally if I notice my squad mates without buffs I rebuff them, but I spend minimal time doing it: heavy/light armor get the physical/magic defense buffs, and arcanes get spirits gift too; don't waste time with hp/mp regen buff.

When do I choose to not heal?

1) when I'm leagues better in gears than my allies, and I'm needed to take down some nasty enemy dds, for which case I must go to violet dance mode

2) when the fight is a done deal (aka, the r9rr full +12 jades archer picks up flag and his apoth and 79 skill are ready) I go and I kill everything in sight till he delivers flag and the battle ends.

3) people outside of squads do not get heals unless they specifically ask (exception being flag pullers). It is a waste of time to attempt to find out who has buff filter in and who does not.

4) if a couple of enemies engage my squad, I trust my squad mates to defend themselves long enough for, say, myself to go to the root of the problem: that is, attacking the enemies attacking my squad. My dmg is good enough that they can't simply ignore me, so this is another way of alleviating the pressure my squad is taking while also getting personal contribution.

~

Basically as I see it, you aren't supposed to be full support. There will be many battles where you are stronger than the enemy, and you can focus on dding to your hearts content, and there will be battles where the enemies are so strong that pure heals is still good contribution. I think a good cleric aught to be able to switch from heals to dding on the fly---pure heals is more of a PVE concept, but clerics are capable of so much more.

Muddling the problem for me is that my face is a somewhat recognizable one, and as soon as certain strong enemy squads recognize me, they send all of their venos and archers after me, cuz I'm just too dangerous to ignore! Not even I can tank 3 or more purges back to back to back. Well, its all good fun however it turns out.

Cheers,

Aeliah

Merdock - Dreamweaver · February 2013

In my experience as a barb who spends 95% of the timing operating around the flag (digging/carrying/stopping opposition) I find myself gaining over 5k contribution and averaging around 8-11k contribution. My token average is usually 75-150.

I have in some battles, chosen to DD in place of being a carrier, and I have found my points per battle to remain relatively the same. So straight PK can equal points equal to/greater than flag carrying. I have found in these nation wars (as an event) my token output tends to be a little bit higher, if only minimal.

I am in no way the best geared or best skilled barb in PWI, or even on my server, but I often run with a full R9 sin. We always compare our contribution and token results, and you know what? The G16, poorly sharded and poorly refined barb does as well as the full R9, decently refined and decently sharded sin on most occasions.

As a sin, he has gone into Nation Wars (as an event) to play pure support (as a sin) and pure PK (as a sin), and has found his overall results to be varied. He has noted that in some battle when he was purely support, his individual score would be rather large, but his contribution wouldn't be as high. This goes as far as his score would be higher when it was 20 vs 1, rather than 20 vs 20.

In our experience we have found the best way to acquire overall contribution and overall token gain is to win battles. As in winning individual territory battles. Keeping your focus on winning battles does multiple things:

1: increases individual contribution and token gain
2: bolsters nation's defense/offense.
3: result from #2, increases the odds of your nation finishing 1st
4: creates more fun (let's be honest, winning is more fun than losing)

~

Now, if my premises (arguments, points, thoughts) are correct. We have already shown that healing in NW=contribution, even if the contribution is small. So as a healer (cleric/mystic) who is entering any given NW....

A: Healing/buffing/debuffing=some contribution
B: DDing/PK=good contribution
C: Operating around the flag carrier (with or against)=large contribution

winning battles=large contribution
E: winning many battles=better Nation standing
F: Better Nation standing=large token output.

Therefore, if you are a support class, or any class really, you intent should be to *win battles* for it not only affects your individual contribution, but your nation's standing as well. With that being the case, as a *HEALER* your best bet as support is to:

buff who you can
heal the carrier/squad mates as default.
survive
DD when it's needed

~

Lastly, you may be asking yourself "if Merdock is correct, which should I do when?" To answer that I must point back to Aeliah. She hit the point on the head where choosing DD or Heal/Buff will vary from battle to battle. No one system or style will be correct in every individual battle. With the amount of variation in gear, player approaches, and allies you can not reasonably say "I'm going to purely support" and expect the same amount of contribution/score per battle.

The wisest approach is an open one, watching the battle unfold, evaluating your allies and opponents, and changing as needed. If you very much out-gear your opponents, might be time to DD and kick a little ***. You are very much under-geared than your opponents, might be time to fall back and heal/buff your stronger/tank-ish allies.

I know this thread has been rather wordy, but I hope it was useful. Enjoy~

Kitkate - Dreamweaver · February 2013

I just want to say that actually killing someone is more important than DDing. As a veno i went in and spent a lot of time purging, amping, then DDing for squads. I was never the one to deal the final blow though. I ended with over 2k contribution on the winning side and got no reward. The message you get in the mailbox said cause i didnt kill anyone i didnt get a reward. I think you have to atleast kill a person to get the reward, no matter how much you DD. I feel like this would be hard for lower level players in the game.

It would of been really nice if my purge and amp would have counted.

Zanryu - Dreamweaver · February 2013

ITT walls of text. Walls of text everywhere.

It's reminding me of BMs talking about Nation Wars.

..Where's Andres, he'd love this.

Aquiminthe - Sanctuary · February 2013

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands wrote: »

I agree yes and no. Yes be in the winning Nation matter for the reward, but if you have 1,5k contribution even in the winning Nation you will get **** reward.

Unfortunately they obviously didn't think about thing like cleric role. Veno can purge and amplify and have enough time to DD during the CD. I have purge/amp/debuff on my veno and get over 100 tokens so veno even as support doesn't lose really.

And as someone mentioned a LOTTTTT of people have the buff-filter constantly on, So a cleric that is not in a squad will not be able to heal/buff anyone cause people don't take the buff-filter off for NW.

Asking cleric to heal/buff to make the Nation win while they get **** reward cause they don't DD is selfish if the reward of the team is not shared (even worse for a cleric not in squad). We don't speak about a difference of 5 tokens, it's a difference of over 50 tokens, as I said in a previous post the cleric in our squad get 30 tokens while everyone else get 150 tokens, is it fair? No, it's not with 30 tokens each NW that the poor cleric will be able to upgrade their gears, that doesn't even pay for a charm.

Put yourself in a cleric place 5 minutes, you pay a hp charm around 9m and a mp charm 5 cause you know cleric can't use plume shell without a charm, buy mp/hp pots, apo pots, so let's say that cost you 15m, you go in NW, don't have a squad, as nice little cleric try to heal/buff people, pm 99% of them to ask them to turn off their buff-filter, die to a sin while you type, but you get in the winning nation YAY, you got 30 tokens, 30 tokens = around 6.75m, so you basically paid to do Nation war.

I really pity clerics that go in squad without share of reward or even worse cleric that go solo and heal/buff and getting **** to please other people that doesn't take one minute to think that the cleric they yell at to heal/buff make 0 profit and even need to pay money to actually do the event.

+1
I wish more people would sit in the cleric's shoes for once. They always get the most disrespect.

People who ask why clerics don't go out of their way to stop what they're doing just to buff you are a little selfish. (Not saying that clerics shouldn't buff random people -- it would be a nice thing to do) They could turn around and ask the same question--why aren't you buffing them? Yes I know other classes require that people be in squads to buff (this is the same as a cleric with a buff filter on) but if the cleric has to go out of the way to buff you with 4 buffs, how hard is it to squad them and give them your one buff? Of course this is assuming both players are squadless. The point is that it's always a one-way relationship when it comes to clerics and others.

Also..just maybe... just maybe they're not flying around just searching for people without buffs to buff.b:question

soundslegit · February 2013

I think the best solution is for part of one's score to be distributed throughout the squad. Say 20% of your credits earned go into a squad pool and are evenly distributed. This would discourage people from squading with lowbies but they don't want to do that even now so it doesn't really change anything.

FWIW I've found that the two biggest issues in how many tokens I get are gear and choosing battles well. Obviously being on the winning nation matters but thats beyond your control.

Do support classes get screwed over?

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