Worth it to try again (still pay to win)

XHeadShoT - Heavens Tear · February 2013

The last time I played this game was 2010, or 2011 (yeah been a while). During that time I also played *removed*, and this game was the game I would play when I was not raiding, or just felt like I needed a break from *removed*. Now I have decided to give this game another try. How different is it from 2-3 years ago? Last time I played the game was widely pay to win, and most players quit because of that. The PvE took hours to grind for, unless you payed. You would get demolished in PvP, unless you played. I totally love all the races and classes in this game, its just I dont want to spend a coin on a game I would be playing casually on. So, what is the new max level, how much time does it take to get there, and how much money do I need to spend on this game to be competitive?

Zanryu - Dreamweaver · February 2013

105 is the max level, they've almost completely killed farming as a source of income, and the game is now more pay to win than ever. If you aren't already max or near max gear or can't cash shop hard then it's best you stay away.

Selak - Dreamweaver · February 2013

Pay to Win?

How do you win a MMORPG?

I assume you mean how long before you get bored and leave again, that will be your personal choice depending on your preferred play-style in Real Life.

As to being the best PvP player that will only ever be temporary as you will age and your reflexes will slow allowing a younger faster player to beat you in the end,
no win here either.

If you are looking for a game to win, MMORPGs are not meant to be won Lol
Play a FPS instead or checkers etc,

HrunsPanda - Archosaur · February 2013

Getting to level 100 takes roughly 500 hours of casual play, like really playing the game.
Or about 150 hours if you do it fast but you dont have money to start with and you dont cash shop but just try to be as efficient as you can and dont mind doing the same instance from level 70 to 99 and nothing else. Or about 30 hours if you do have money to spend and you just buy your way there.
Getting from level 100 to 105 takes ages and ages but is very optional. Not needed at all.

To have fun in PvE, you dont need to spend a penny, you can just play the game and it is fun. Dont look at those around you that are insanely much stronger than you and solo that instance in 10 minutes that you do in 2 hours with a squad. They dont matter. They are playing another game but happen to be on the same server.....

To be competetive in PvP, you need to do one of three things: (or of course a combination of them)
-Spend between 2.000 and 10.000 USdollars. Depending on the level of overpowerdness you want and the patience you have to wait for sales.
-Farm that amount where after playing to level 100 first, you can start farming at 0,50 $ per hour and slowly work your way up to farm about 2 dollars per hour.
-Spend between half a year and 3 years merchanting, depending on how good you're at it and how many hours you can leave your PC running the game with 2 clients.

If you just consider it a PvE game, it is great fun.
PvP is not for casual players, but then again, i dont think thats the case in any game. Its been a while since i played that other game you talk about, but i dont think youre gonna be succesfull in pvp there without making your hours of farming either.

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands · February 2013

Name other game is against the forum rules.

ponyduck · February 2013

In spite of Selak, the rest of us know what you meant by pay to win.

As I see it, there are 2 approaches to this game:

1) highly competitive with an eye on pvp, or
2) just want to actually PLAY the game, w/o care about leveling up
fast or being competitive in pvp.

For #1, you either need to spend a buttload of time or money.

#2 is most fun when you have several other players around your own
level to play with.

The problem with the game now (and it disappoints me as I am a #2-type
player) is that there are VERY FEW other players out there at lower
levels, who ALSO want to play #2-style. The majority of lower levels
are alts, and they just want to speed-level for whatever reason.

I am disappointed that PW did not see the long-term potential for
this game, and opted for a business model for a short-term game.
There's no doubt that what their goal is now, is to get everyone
to high level as fast as possible so they will be sucked into the
cs'ing addiction. They are slowly taking away the elements that
encourage new/just-want-to-play players, and putting all their
resources into the END-GAME content.

I'll always regret that PW did not recognize the incredible
staying power this game could have had and adjusted their
business decisions accordingly.

Ganden - Sanctuary · February 2013

My character is lv98 and i find this game quite boring sometimes.. once you you finihs dailies there is not much to do. They havent really improved the gameplay that much other than adding new classes, skills and dungeouns.

Allisandre - Sanctuary · February 2013

ponyduck wrote: »

In spite of Selak, the rest of us know what you meant by pay to win.

As I see it, there are 2 approaches to this game:

1) highly competitive with an eye on pvp, or
2) just want to actually PLAY the game, w/o care about leveling up
fast or being competitive in pvp.

For #1, you either need to spend a buttload of time or money.

#2 is most fun when you have several other players around your own
level to play with.

The problem with the game now (and it disappoints me as I am a #2-type
player) is that there are VERY FEW other players out there at lower
levels, who ALSO want to play #2-style. The majority of lower levels
are alts, and they just want to speed-level for whatever reason.

I am disappointed that PW did not see the long-term potential for
this game, and opted for a business model for a short-term game.
There's no doubt that what their goal is now, is to get everyone
to high level as fast as possible so they will be sucked into the
cs'ing addiction. They are slowly taking away the elements that
encourage new/just-want-to-play players, and putting all their
resources into the END-GAME content.

I'll always regret that PW did not recognize the incredible
staying power this game could have had and adjusted their
business decisions accordingly.

I couldn't have said it better.
If you're 100+, it doesn't really matter whether you pay to win or not.
If you're below 100, you'll need to either pay to 100, or have a lot of friends in your level range. (or that have alts in your level range that they can be regularly bothered to play.)

For level 1-99, the game is now dead.

OIdpop - Heavens Tear · February 2013

With multiple alts over 100..who needs to spend real moneyb:chuckle

BlubZ - Heavens Tear · February 2013

all f2p are p2w and i think PWI is worst of em thats why i havent played since 2011 spring but some of my friends still playing on my account which is their problem..i found nais game last year on august ..tho ofc game cost but its not p2w..sure it has CS but its only for such as fashions and sheeeiit

but this is just my opinion PWI was nais game or all their games but i noticed that with that money what i spent on PWE games i could prolly buy a house :P

Selak - Dreamweaver · February 2013

ponyduck wrote: »

In spite of Selak, the rest of us know what you meant by pay to win.

As I see it, there are 2 approaches to this game:

1) highly competitive with an eye on pvp, or
2) just want to actually PLAY the game, w/o care about leveling up
fast or being competitive in pvp.

For #1, you either need to spend a buttload of time or money.

#2 is most fun when you have several other players around your own
level to play with.

The problem with the game now (and it disappoints me as I am a #2-type
player) is that there are VERY FEW other players out there at lower
levels, who ALSO want to play #2-style. The majority of lower levels
are alts, and they just want to speed-level for whatever reason.

I am disappointed that PW did not see the long-term potential for
this game, and opted for a business model for a short-term game.
There's no doubt that what their goal is now, is to get everyone
to high level as fast as possible so they will be sucked into the
cs'ing addiction. They are slowly taking away the elements that
encourage new/just-want-to-play players, and putting all their
resources into the END-GAME content.

I'll always regret that PW did not recognize the incredible
staying power this game could have had and adjusted their
business decisions accordingly.

Sadly you may be right, because most players think there are only 2 player types when research has shown four main types with lots of subtypes actually play MMORPGs.

1) Player Killer, highly competitive with an eye on pvp,
2) Adventurer, just want to actually PLAY the game, w/o care about leveling up
fast or being competitive in pvp.
3) Explorer, needs to find obscure map locations and rare objects.
4) Socialisers, who are here for the animated chat features with status objects. e.g. Fashion, Pets.

No spite intended just misplaced humour and a different perspective of the types of endings in this game, each of the above player types will have a different version of endgame.

Zanryu - Dreamweaver · February 2013

Selak - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Sadly you may be right, because most players think there are only 2 player types when research has shown four main types with lots of subtypes actually play MMORPGs.

1) Player Killer, highly competitive with an eye on pvp, Majority
2) Adventurer, just want to actually PLAY the game, w/o care about leveling up
fast or being competitive in pvp. Minority
3) Explorer, needs to find obscure map locations and rare objects. No such things to find
4) Socialisers, who are here for the animated chat features with status objects. e.g. Fashion, Pets. Who even knows there's so god damn many of them

No spite intended just misplaced humour and a different perspective of the types of endings in this game, each of the above player types will have a different version of endgame.

Considering how much of the game is PvP based, now more so than ever with the addition of Nation Wars, this game is pay to win even if you can't technically win the game itself. It isn't the game you're winning, it's the competition against other players, and in order to do that you need to shell out some serious cash or far more time than you would have had to years ago.

Miugre - Heavens Tear · February 2013

Zanryu - Dreamweaver wrote: »

1) Player Killer, highly competitive with an eye on pvp, Majority2) Adventurer, just want to actually PLAY the game, w/o care about leveling up fast or being competitive in pvp. Minority

This is sadly true, and I suspect this happens in a lot of F2P games where the management decides to abuse the CS system by selling gear in it. To an extent this would happen anyway due to the gold trading system existing, but we still wouldn't be nearly as P2W as we are if, say, rank 9 never happened.

Zanryu - Dreamweaver wrote: »

3) Explorer, needs to find obscure map locations and rare objects. No such things to find

You know, I'm gonna have to disagree with you there.

This game has no shortage of interesting, rare, underused gears which can absoulutely be acquired through reasonable amounts of effort. The problem isn't that they don't exist. The problem is that they're immediately ignored because all anyone cares about anymore is s3 or r9.

As far as "obscure map locations..." I assume since April 2009 you've taken some time to fly around the map at least once? I could probably set up catshops in remote locations that no one would ever bother to visit. We don't see people playing those WC hide-and-seek games anymore. Had I lots of money to drop on it, I'd probably run one myself. :P

Zanryu - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Considering how much of the game is PvP based, now more so than ever with the addition of Nation Wars, this game is pay to win even if you can't technically win the game itself. It isn't the game you're winning, it's the competition against other players, and in order to do that you need to shell out some serious cash or far more time than you would have had to years ago.

You're implying that to "win" has the distinct definition of beating others in PVP, particularly NW... where in truth there are all kinds of ways to "win." I've got a 20k HP barb who I toss into NW every weekend. His damage output is ****, and I don't outfit him with stupid amounts of def levels so he's pretty much toast the first r9 wiz or psy he comes across. But I get a good amount of tokens anyway thanks to the amount of damage I soak, and running flags has a direct effect on the outcome of everyone's nation credits and therefore how many tokens you get. Is that "winning?" Or is "winning" directly proportional to, say, the number of people I can oneshot on my archer (which is somewhere close to zero)? :P

Gertha - Archosaur · February 2013

Zanryu - Dreamweaver wrote: »

1) Player Killer, highly competitive with an eye on pvp, Majority
2) Adventurer, just want to actually PLAY the game, w/o care about leveling up
fast or being competitive in pvp. Minority
3) Explorer, needs to find obscure map locations and rare objects. No such things to find
4) Socialisers, who are here for the animated chat features with status objects. e.g. Fashion, Pets. Who even knows there's so god damn many of them.

It looks like I'm actually a 2 and 3 type... wouldn't mind competitiveness in PvP either, but for more reasonable effort, of course. And some fun content for the type 3 players wouldn't hurt at all. Sharp Spear quest doesn't count, as it's such a coin sink, unless it's X2.

Worth it to try again (still pay to win)

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