aps build confusion

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CraisCray - Momaganon
CraisCray - Momaganon Posts: 13 Arc User
edited December 2012 in Barbarian
So here it is,i am a 99 aps barb,followed the gear plan that all barbs do,i got atm deicide,lionheart wrist and getting botts and leggings too,arshura ornaments.Yerterday i was running a FC when some1 asked me why i have this gear,answer was cuz i am aps bhild but he said i got a wrong build,an old one from2009,he said the best build is to get arshura armor and lionheart ornaments cuz the belt and neck would.refine for more pdef instead of evasion.From my knowledge build for aps barb and bm is same,looked at the first bms i saw.and all were like my build but after i saw one with opposite build,now i am confused,whats better,did i just spent 50kk for nothing amd have to change them?
Post edited by CraisCray - Momaganon on

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  • HrunsPanda - Archosaur
    HrunsPanda - Archosaur Posts: 1,136 Arc User
    edited December 2012
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    If i were you, id just check it out yourself compare the different options and see what you like most. Often people disagree about what is best anyway. And researching yourself is always better than following others imo.
  • Lulznotwar - Lost City
    Lulznotwar - Lost City Posts: 239 Arc User
    edited December 2012
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    Its all relative these days, I personally used the LA ornies because i didnt like having non-LA gear for when i wasnt tanking Bosses in APS mode.

    Its all really what you're comfortable with imho, i know others will say LA Boots/wrists is the most efficient way to do so but meh i got LA ornies and i certainly dont regret it :)
    RIP spoons
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  • Salari - Raging Tide
    Salari - Raging Tide Posts: 2,102 Arc User
    edited December 2012
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    You could always mix and match the gear so you get some pdef from orns. A friend I know used a LA wrist and neck, and HA boots and belt. then the g15niv legs/hat. That way you dont give up all the pdef you could get from the orns
    Marine - Marshall - Raging Tides - Retired
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    DEMHEALSMAN - Dreamweaver
    Yes, because people really need 900+ dex or 1000+ magic just for the lulz
  • XxZiOnShaDOW - Lost City
    XxZiOnShaDOW - Lost City Posts: 7 Arc User
    edited December 2012
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    some people do prefer ashura boots and bracers over Lionheart because the ashura ornaments are useless for bms and barbs i have a aps bm and barb to be honost as a barb the pdef dont matter as much more defense the better even as an aps barb in true form you still need that extra defense from HA boots and wrists for defense so whatever you choose remember even tho you got less defense you can still tank mine does it perfectly :)
  • Sakubatou - Sanctuary
    Sakubatou - Sanctuary Posts: 4,001 Arc User
    edited December 2012
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    CraisCray - Momaganon wrote: »
    followed the gear plan that all barbs do,i got atm deicide,lionheart wrist and getting botts and leggings too,arshura ornaments.
    Not all barbs. The smart ones get magic ornies and LA wrist and boots.
    CraisCray - Momaganon wrote: »
    the best build is to get arshura armor and lionheart ornaments cuz the belt and neck would.refine for more pdef instead of evasion.
    Would consider this a lame build also, although useful if you're gonna level a sin/archer.
    CraisCray - Momaganon wrote: »
    From my knowledge build for aps barb and bm is same,looked at the first bms i saw.and all were like my build but after i saw one with opposite build,now i am confused,whats better,did i just spent 50kk for nothing amd have to change them?

    I'd say yes. Should have consulted the forums first since most forum users are smarter than people who don't bother to research their classes.

    In the BM forums its argued LA ornies (belt and neck) or LA wrist and boots, or HA everything + a tome. I'm a proponent of LA wrist and boots since my main is BM although for barbs I can kind of sort of maybe understand evasion ornies. The hp gained from refining HA will be multiplied by barb buffs and tiger form so you get more from evasion ornies with HA boots/wrist as a barb then you do as a bm. Still, I think LA wrist and boots are best.

    As a barb, you'll be expected to tank. Especially as an aps barb. You'll be able to survive on bloodpaint, unless you wear evasion ornies where you'll be being hit a lot harder than a person with well refined mdef/pdef ornies. So if you're surviving on paint heals is it better to take less damage or have more hp? The answer is to take less damage because then your paint heals will replace the damage you take. The same if you're being healed by a cleric the evasion ornies means you will take more damage and require more healing and probably surprise the cleric with how squishy you are. I cleric occasionally and I'll see barbs running through BH Seat/Aba/Metal with either evasion ornies or pdef ornies and losing 15k hp in a matter of seconds. Very little I can do to save a barb that doesn't have defenses to match their hp. I roughly consider evasion ornies a 30% penalty to a persons hp, so a 7k hp BM with evasion ornies is more like a 4.9k hp bm, and a 20k barb with evasion ornies is more like a 14k hp barb.

    You can just make HA wrist and boots and use a tome, but you'll be required to have -.1 int on your weapon to stay 5 aps. This means a weaker weapon or extremely lucky G15/G16s, or settling for 4 aps.

    I'd never use evasion ornies. So which 2 pieces would make the best pieces to be LA: plate, wrist, or boots (or feasibly 1 ornament and 1 armor piece). Your plate has the highest base defense and highest refine rate for hp, therefore the biggest sacrifice between HA and LA. So thats why I went LA wrist and boots instead of a plate.

    Lastly, learn to swap gear. My aps barb has 19.5k hp with his aps gear on, but 21k and more def with his pulling gear on and I hotkey swap my blessings and gear all the time. I survive bosses better with aps gear (more chi, more spark heals/immunity, more versatility, attack levels, and about 4x more bloodpaint heals than a cleric spamming IH, aggro) but I survive pulls better with my G16 gear (higher hp and pdef).

    You can use your TT99 HA pieces to upgrade to G16 for pulling.
    Seven 100+ characters leveled the hard way. Free to play. Mystic, Psychic, and Wizard left to level. b:victory
  • CraisCray - Momaganon
    CraisCray - Momaganon Posts: 13 Arc User
    edited December 2012
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    Thanks for feedback,i will keep this way,no way i gonna change even if its better,i just managed to get these 4 aps pieces so thats it
  • dogm
    dogm Posts: 46 Arc User
    edited December 2012
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    CraisCray - Momaganon wrote: »
    So here it is,i am a 99 aps barb,followed the gear plan that all barbs do
    Not all. Used LA Morai plate and Gorenox V. up to 102 when I added r8r plate and later Peak of Clouds with 1x interval.
    he said the best build is to get ashura armor and lionheart ornaments cuz the belt and neck would.refine for more pdef instead of evasion.From my knowledge build for aps barb and bm is same,looked at the first bms i saw.and all were like my build but after i saw one with opposite build,now i am confused,whats better,did i just spent 50kk for nothing and have to change them?
    It's 50M to a guaranteed aps increase. Nice. And don't worry about changing it around.
    The best aps build involves r8r imo.

    I thought about int ornaments also, but decided to put the coin to other options.
    My current build has interval on chest and boots. Cost exceeding 50M by a lot though.
  • CraisCray - Momaganon
    CraisCray - Momaganon Posts: 13 Arc User
    edited December 2012
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    And 1 more question,after i will get my boots and pants too i will be 3.33 base and thats enought for me,should i invest and get r8 for weapon,plate and ring? i think it worth the money spend amd maybe i can recast the plate
  • XxZiOnShaDOW - Lost City
    XxZiOnShaDOW - Lost City Posts: 7 Arc User
    edited December 2012
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    CraisCray - Momaganon wrote: »
    And 1 more question,after i will get my boots and pants too i will be 3.33 base and thats enought for me,should i invest and get r8 for weapon,plate and ring? i think it worth the money spend amd maybe i can recast the plate

    in my opinion it is worth it if you recast the plate you can get interval on it and be 4.00 base so i reccommend it if you can afford it
  • CraisCray - Momaganon
    CraisCray - Momaganon Posts: 13 Arc User
    edited December 2012
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    What i need for each try and what are the chances.for int%,int is not a must,i
    ould recast only for some better stats
  • KingClawX - Lost City
    KingClawX - Lost City Posts: 56 Arc User
    edited December 2012
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    sound like a **** build but good for you.

    STR build all the way b:laugh
  • CraisCray - Momaganon
    CraisCray - Momaganon Posts: 13 Arc User
    edited December 2012
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    What so weird,i get only the aps gear i need for 5 aps sparked,after i got it all left will be for hp or defence,and these would be supposed to be the plate
  • BloodTyrant - Raging Tide
    BloodTyrant - Raging Tide Posts: 581 Arc User
    edited December 2012
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    i think u already got the answer, and im happy you knew how to manage your barb the way you like and the right time to make him aps, my congratz today are for you my friend b:victory .



    KingClawX - Lost City wrote: »
    sound like a **** build but good for you.

    STR build all the way b:laugh

    el oh el. i eat funny and unpolite barbs like you in the breakfast, with a fork on a hand and my fist on another hand, sir! b:bye
  • enlil
    enlil Posts: 25 Arc User
    edited December 2012
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    In my opinion. I love the LA ornaments. I don't want more pdef. I want the boss to hit me good and trigger blood rush. Also Archers miss me in NW. BM mis me with Roar of the Pride.

    I am very pleased with the original concept and i **** the game.

    LA ornaments, Lionheart boots arms, r8r chest, nirvy pants and hat.

    3.33.. now if i get the -int on a re-roll of my chest i will drop the boots and arm and nirvy them or cruise along at 4.0.

    or i may drop my LA ornaments. but really i only need to be hit 50% to build the chi i want. Id rather have a miss on me, then a clean hit.

    archers say my high evasion reduces the damage they will do. In NW its nice when they miss with their stuns.

    game mechanics are always changing so be good with what you are using and you will be happy . If we all run the same then no one will find the new way.

    KittyFister 102 demon claw barb lupon 101 demon barb.
  • Beleni - Dreamweaver
    Beleni - Dreamweaver Posts: 383 Arc User
    edited December 2012
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    CraisCray - Momaganon wrote: »
    So here it is,i am a 99 aps barb,followed the gear plan that all barbs do,i got atm deicide,lionheart wrist and getting botts and leggings too,arshura ornaments.Yerterday i was running a FC when some1 asked me why i have this gear,answer was cuz i am aps bhild but he said i got a wrong build,an old one from2009,he said the best build is to get arshura armor and lionheart ornaments cuz the belt and neck would.refine for more pdef instead of evasion.From my knowledge build for aps barb and bm is same,looked at the first bms i saw.and all were like my build but after i saw one with opposite build,now i am confused,whats better,did i just spent 50kk for nothing amd have to change them?

    I started off as the ''new '' aps build with HA Ornaments and LA wrist and boots.
    Before NW was released i decided to roll on a full set of HA G15 Nirvana gear.
    Played around with the build and what i came out with was very well Balanced.

    Playing in full HA gear with Great P.defence and a nice Set bonus - 18k . Pdef - 22 attack - 25 Defence lvls.

    Made Tanking any boss a piece of cake.

    http://pwcalc.com/a057542c424ebb47

    Also, if you switch the Belt/ Necklace / Cape and wep over it becomes a viable tank build.

    http://pwcalc.com/dc1e6cc39edd2072

    Since you have started on the HA tt 99 boots and wrist you can continue your way to this Build and use LA ornies for now.
    With how easy it is to farm uncanny crystals at the minute, I would highly recommend it.

    im still using this build - working on G16 claws to increase my dps
  • Sakubatou - Sanctuary
    Sakubatou - Sanctuary Posts: 4,001 Arc User
    edited December 2012
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    CraisCray - Momaganon wrote: »
    And 1 more question,after i will get my boots and pants too i will be 3.33 base and thats enought for me,should i invest and get r8 for weapon,plate and ring? i think it worth the money spend amd maybe i can recast the plate
    Its a worthwhile investment when you have coin to burn. R8r defenses are even higher than r9 first tier and their set bonuses are decent for 2 and 3 pieces, but the full set bonuses of r9 are better.

    R8r is no longer a real "endgame" armor although its extremely decent. G16 and r9t2 and r9t3 all outshine it defensively and with set bonuses and refine rates. Its still excellent armor but it doesn't upgrade past r8r so when you need to upgrade it becomes npc food.

    However, I'd say if you're gonna keep the evasion ornies then go for it. Once you get it you can get rid of the evasion ornies. Can either spend 55m getting new ornies or 55m aiming for r8r chest, I guess the chest isn't too bad an idea.

    However, its a huge coin sink and I'd advise against it until you have excess coin. I sank about 200m in rerolls trying for -int prior to NW rewards. NW made it considerably cheaper but I've continued to sink about another 100m and still no -int yet. Think I'm around 300m invested at 15 or 16 tries.
    BloodTyrant - Raging Tide wrote: »

    el oh el. i eat funny and unpolite barbs like you in the breakfast, with a fork on a hand and my fist on another hand, sir! b:bye

    Lol, thats troll Ghoul. He still doesn't understand that most claw barbs are strength builds or that you can swap from claws to axes and be a strength barb in a fraction of a second and back to a dps barb in another fraction. Guess he got laughed at so much he tried to hide under a new name.

    I'm still having trouble staying 5 aps and getting more than 550 strength on my BM though =/
    enlil wrote: »
    In my opinion. I love the LA ornaments. I don't want more pdef. I want the boss to hit me good and trigger blood rush. Also Archers miss me in NW. BM mis me with Roar of the Pride.
    Some barbs do and its slightly more viable for barbs than BMs because of the refine difference and barb buff+ tiger forms effect on hp. Your other points though... Blood Rush is not damage based, its number off attacks based and either ornie set works. The real point of ornies is to cover your lack of mdef that HA doesn't give, neither does tiger form. And as for archer and BMs missing you in TW, BM RotP is 100% accurate when demon and accuracy vs evasion is slightly glitched. Not glitched... unbalanced. Between
    50% accuracy rings, accuracy skills, and the unbalance of the class I'm guessing you'r evasion ornies are causing them to miss about 1 in 20 times more. Maelael gave us this chart in the BM forum to help BMs decide the difference between a 60 dex BM and 200 dex BM. Not much. In all honesty, a barb with only 2500 evasion vs a barb with evasion ornies and 3600 evasion isn't going to be hit much more often against an archer with 8000 accuracy, and our real enemies are casters and magic never misses.
    Seven 100+ characters leveled the hard way. Free to play. Mystic, Psychic, and Wizard left to level. b:victory
  • Crimson_Moon - Momaganon
    Crimson_Moon - Momaganon Posts: 59 Arc User
    edited December 2012
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    I chose LA ornaments and HA wrists/boots because:
    1. on my server there aren't many heavy cash shoppers with +10/12 refines => when I'm required to tank, I do it in tiger mode without problems. In tiger mode I don't need aps bonus, so I can swap my ashura ornaments with elemental or hp increase ornaments.
    2. if I get a -int tome I can recast my lionheart wrists/boots and keep my aps ( a lot less fuss with changing gears).
    3. HA refines better =>more HP.
  • CraisCray - Momaganon
    CraisCray - Momaganon Posts: 13 Arc User
    edited December 2012
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    Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »
    However, its a huge coin sink and I'd advise against it until you have excess coin. I sank about 200m in rerolls trying for -int prior to NW rewards. NW made it considerably cheaper but I've continued to sink about another 100m and still no -int yet. Think I'm around 300m invested at 15 or 16 tries.



    .

    oO why so much money,for recast only 1kk+mats are needed and mats are easy craftable with supply tokens,even with the craft cost i dont think they will surpass 2kk each try,or isn't the recast needed for int chance?
  • Sakubatou - Sanctuary
    Sakubatou - Sanctuary Posts: 4,001 Arc User
    edited December 2012
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    CraisCray - Momaganon wrote: »
    oO why so much money,for recast only 1kk+mats are needed and mats are easy craftable with supply tokens,even with the craft cost i dont think they will surpass 2kk each try,or isn't the recast needed for int chance?

    My first 8 tries were before nation wars exists. Nation wars cut the price down to about 1/3 of making the mats I think, but its more expensive still than it looks since there is a crafting cost for all the r8 recasting mats beyond just supply tokens. So 8 tries at about 25-30m each, then another 8 tries at roughly 12m each. Oh, and I'm considering the opportunity costs of supply tokens, since I could have sold them for 300-500k at the time. So even though it was only a couple mil+supply tokens I count the supply tokens as a cost too
    Seven 100+ characters leveled the hard way. Free to play. Mystic, Psychic, and Wizard left to level. b:victory

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