pure str vs dex build

I_am_noob - Dreamweaver · December 2012

a lot say that dex build is way to go but i still would like to hear more about each
any input?
i do PVP and pve so waqnt pro and cons for bouth builds in each department xD

Deceptistar - Sanctuary · December 2012

I_am_noob - Dreamweaver wrote: »

a lot say that dex build is way to go but i still would like to hear more about each
any input?
i do PVP and pve so waqnt pro and cons for bouth builds in each department xD

i think its just preference really. It also depends on gear too, because with a stronger build, you could possibly have more leeway to go a bit more versatile. (what gear u have can affect which pro and cons you get)

also personally i hear more of STR love on the seeker forum.

i go with dex cause i like the 34% crit. (i use brotherhood tome and R9)

maybe one day i might be tempted to go full STR just to see the difference in a NW or something

Joax - Lost City · December 2012

I_am_noob - Dreamweaver wrote: »

a lot say that dex build is way to go but i still would like to hear more about each
any input?
i do PVP and pve so waqnt pro and cons for bouth builds in each department xD

Depends if you want more damage base or more critical hits, personally i prefer STR + VIT, and the DEX neccesary to use NV R8 R9 weap.

TolanSky - Heavens Tear · December 2012

I suppose the obvious question that needs to be asked is this: What exactly is meant by a "Pure Dex Build?" Because as near as I can tell, the vast majority of the weapons that a Seeker has access to kind of preclude you from devoting the kinds of figures into dexterity that an Assassin or heck even a Blademaster is capable of devoting into those slots. Rather it is far more important for a Seeker to have a relevant Strength Score in order to be able to wield most of it's weapons.

Now if your talking about a build where you only have the bare minimum Strength necessary to equip your end game weapon of choice and the rest is put into Dexterity, then I suppose I can understand that definition of a "Pure Dex Build."

Both of those being said however, I personally prefer a balance between Dexterity, Vitality, and Strength. That way I am able to tank high level area's without having to worry so much about the rate at which I am losing hit points. Though I suppose that if you can afford high levels of refinement as well as 4 sockets on all of your end game armor pieces and can get Rank 10 or higher Citrine Shards or Defense Level Shards, then perhaps it is not such a big problem, but not everyone is so rich as to be able to afford that, so having a bit of vitality to utilize in the interim is a good thing to have.

lazertazer0x · December 2012

TolanSky - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I suppose the obvious question that needs to be asked is this: What exactly is meant by a "Pure Dex Build?".

At what point in the post did the op ever say pure dex build? He said pure str build vs dex build. All that means is more dex than the pure str build would have :P

OontzOontz - Dreamweaver · December 2012

Do seeker magic attacks miss? If it doesn't, extra dex isn't gonna help you at all.

I_am_noob - Dreamweaver · December 2012

yes didnt say pure dex build ....i mean hi dex for crit hits
so all in all hi crit vs raw dmg from str
as far as gear go lets say full g16 ...weapon included...till i manage to get r9 weapon

Hexalot - Dreamweaver · December 2012

OontzOontz - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Do seeker magic attacks miss? If it doesn't, extra dex isn't gonna help you at all.

Um...the higher your dex, the higher your crit rate. That's the sole reason Seekers choose the dex build... not merely to build accuracy.

TolanSky - Heavens Tear · December 2012

lazertazer0x wrote: »

At what point in the post did the op ever say pure dex build? He said pure str build vs dex build. All that means is more dex than the pure str build would have :P

Okay, it appears I misread what the OP intended (by the word of the OP himself). That said I still think the question that should be being asked is not which build has more Pro's and Con's in PvP or PvE... but rather which build actually produces more consistent damage output over time. That is Damage over Time as opposed to Damage Per Second.

A Dexterity Build should theoretically be geared towards optimizing a classes Damage Per Second. Which is why it is preferred by almost every 5.0 APS Class in the game. Meanwhile a Strength Build is geared towards optimizing Damage over Time, which is exactly what the Seeker is designed to take advantage of. Seeker is not designed to be an APS Class (even though it can go 5.0 APS if you are willing to spend thousands of dollars refining the Rank 8 or 9 weapon (Forget which) into an interval weapon). Rather Seeker is meant to perform the highest possible amount of damage per each normal hit and occasionally double or even triple that damage on a critical hit. This is why Seeker is one of the melee classes that is capable of 1 shoting things.

soundslegit · December 2012

I_am_noob - Dreamweaver wrote: »

a lot say that dex build is way to go but i still would like to hear more about each
any input?
i do PVP and pve so waqnt pro and cons for bouth builds in each department xD

If you get high level gear you will be overpowered for PVE. Any gear which lets you compete at a high level in PVP on seeker will make PVE easy no matter your stat build.

So if you are going to get such gear go for the stat build which is best for PVP and let the gear take care of PVE.

Allisandre - Sanctuary · December 2012

I was poking around for this info a while ago for my seeker and found this thread, which pointed here....

SylenThunder - Sanctuary wrote: »

Ok, I finally took a few minutes and worked out the damage differnces between the different builds I posted earlier.

Now, we will use Vortex as our base because it does a fixed DPS.
I'll also calculate using L10 Vortex so that we don't get ito any differences between Sage and Demon.
The damage is equal to base damage plus 100% of weapon damage plus 7842.8. For the weapon, we'll use my Divine Comprehension with a weapon damage range of 999-1269. (We'll use the median of 1134)
It states that it consumes mana every 1.5 seconds, but deals constant damage. When I use Vortex, I see damage numbers about every 5 seconds, and it's 3 numbers displaying at once, so I'll use 36 attacks per minute for this formula.

So, now that we've defined our damage bases, here's the formula...
((base damage + 100% weapon damage + 7842.8) = Base Damage per strike
A Critical Strike would be (Base Damage per Strike x 2)
Then we need to calculate the critstrike rate into our overall formula...
If we figure a critstrike rate of 10%, then that's 6 crits per minute. then you could count 32.4 regular stikes and 3.6 critical strikes per minute. Sure, you never have a partial crit, but we'll work with it for now...
So, then we take all of these fun numbers, and throw them together into the final formula..
((Base Damage per Strike x 32.4) + (Critical Strike Damage x 3.6)) / 60 = Damage Per Second
Sure it's not perfect because Crits are still random, but for theorizing which system will net more damage, it's an exellent base.

Now for the formulas.

My current build. (Links are in my post above)
Base Damage = 3417.5 (Median of 3070 and 3765)
3417.5 + 1134 + 7842.8 = 12394.3 Base Damage per Strike
12394.3 x 2 = 24788.6 Critical Strike Damage
Critical Rate is 11%, so 11% of 36 stikes is 3.96.
(12394.3 x 32.04) + (24788.6 x 3.96) / 60 =
(397113.4 + 98162.9) / 60 =
495276.3 / 60 = 8254.6 DPS

whew...

My DEX build
Base Damage = 3417.5 (Median of 3070 and 3765)
3417.5 + 1134 + 7842.8 = 12394.3 Base Damage per Strike
12394.3 x 2 = 24788.6 Critical Strike Damage
Critical Rate is 13%, so 13% of 36 stikes is 4.68.
(12394.3 x 31.32) + (24788.6 x 4.68) / 60 =
(388189.5 + 116010.6) / 60 =
504200.1 / 60 = 8403.3 DPS

One more time...

My STR build
Base Damage = 3772 (Median of 3389 and 4155)
3772 + 1134 + 7842.8 = 12748.8 Base Damage per Strike
12748.8 x 2 = 25497.6 Critical Strike Damage
Critical Rate is 11%, so 11% of 36 stikes is 3.96.
(12748.8 x 32.04) + (25497.6 x 3.96) / 60 =
(408471.5 + 100970.5) / 60 =
509442 / 60 = 8490.7 DPS

So, for those that can't see through the math....

Vortex DPS of VIT build is. 8254.6
Vortex DPS of DEX build is 8403.3
Vortex DPS of STR build is. 8490.7

While that initially doesn't look like a huge difference, look at the per-minute damage...
Vortex DPM of VIT build is. 495276.3
Vortex DPM of DEX build is 504200.1
Vortex DPM of STR build is. 509442

Or for the Delta fiends, here's per HOUR =P
Vortex DPH of VIT build is. 29,716,578
Vortex DPH of DEX build is 30,252,006 (535,428 more than VIT)
Vortex DPH of STR build is. 30,566,520 (314,514 more than DEX, 849,942 more than VIT)
That's a HUGE difference of per hour of damage between the builds.

It just confirms what Mattiks said. Pure STR is going to be the best overall build. It not only boosts your defense, but has the highest average output damage as well, even counting the Crits with Dex. As far as Accuracy goes, I very rarely miss with an accuracy of 2415, increasing it by 600 points isn't going to make a huge difference overall. Same goes for Evasion.

Based on that, I don't see enough of a difference to reduce my overall damage in favor of a slightly better crit rate. (Keep in mind that Crit % isn't a set amount, it works on a decreasing curve just like Att and Def levels do.)

If you're going to play mostly PvP and have some pretty decent gear, then maybe you'll want to go pure DEX for the increased damage spikes to break through charms. Aside from that though, a STR or hybrid build seems a lot better.

Deceptistar - Sanctuary · December 2012

Allisandre - Sanctuary wrote: »

I was poking around for this info a while ago for my seeker and found this thread, which pointed here....

Based on that, I don't see enough of a difference to reduce my overall damage in favor of a slightly better crit rate. (Keep in mind that Crit % isn't a set amount, it works on a decreasing curve just like Att and Def levels do.)

If you're going to play mostly PvP and have some pretty decent gear, then maybe you'll want to go pure DEX for the increased damage spikes to break through charms. Aside from that though, a STR or hybrid build seems a lot better.

this one doesnt include zerk crit does it?

Horugou - Raging Tide · December 2012

On my server I can really only think of one seeker that favors the dex build, aside from him, all the well-known seekers have had a hybrid or strength build that I know of...
Personally I capped my dex @ 160 and vit @ 50...tossing the rest into Strength,
the only thing I can think about is that prior to this recent update I found myself having a tough time hitting hard with magic since I wouldn't land many crits and I couldn't zerk...
so high refine bms in magic marrow or OP wizards with well refined phys ornaments were a real problem... but that is now over since I can now trigger god of frenzy with both magic and physical ranged attacks b:victory

Alsiadorra - Sanctuary · December 2012

I swear.. vortex is like the only skill 95% of the seekers out there even use.

Deceptistar - Sanctuary · December 2012

Alsiadorra - Sanctuary wrote: »

I swear.. vortex is like the only skill 95% of the seekers out there even use.

someone hasnt been to NW b:chuckle

IHaxJoo - Raging Tide · December 2012

Horugou - Raging Tide wrote: »

On my server I can really only think of one seeker that favors the dex build, aside from him, all the well-known seekers have had a hybrid or strength build that I know of...
Personally I capped my dex @ 160 and vit @ 50...tossing the rest into Strength,
the only thing I can think about is that prior to this recent update I found myself having a tough time hitting hard with magic since I wouldn't land many crits and I couldn't zerk...
so high refine bms in magic marrow or OP wizards with well refined phys ornaments were a real problem... but that is now over since I can now trigger god of frenzy with both magic and physical ranged attacks b:victory

I was, have been and still prefer the dex build for my seeker. Kinda decided on that since i first started playing. b:sad and i love seeing all them crits

Ebrithalia - Dreamweaver · December 2012

Deceptistar - Sanctuary wrote: »

someone hasnt been to NW b:chuckle

lol half the seeker i see in nw dont know which skill to use against which class most often on my server b:surrender they dont vortex but dunno what to do either

(a seeker trying to kill me with physical hit better be r9 3rd or he will poek me for a long time)

pure str vs dex build

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