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Is TW outdated?

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  • Cuppers - SanctuaryCuppers - Sanctuary Posts: 9 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    I don't care for TW really. NW seems to go by faster than NW and is usually more fun. TW is sometimes like watching paint dry.
  • Deceptistar - SanctuaryDeceptistar - Sanctuary Posts: 10,454 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    i think its more boring because pple dont come to TW any more, but in terms of fairness, i think TW is more fair toward a wider range of classes and builds. and yes i know it sounds weird.
    I only say this cause comparing TW to NW, my seeker is far more capable of roflstomping others than it was in TW ;/ and this is w/out squad.

    i guess it all comes down to personal profit.
    TW would come back if we could get profit directly than the leader get it from the land.
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  • Nahktuul - ArchosaurNahktuul - Archosaur Posts: 725 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    i think its more boring because pple dont come to TW any more, but in terms of fairness, i think TW is more fair toward a wider range of classes and builds. and yes i know it sounds weird.
    I only say this cause comparing TW to NW, my seeker is far more capable of roflstomping others than it was in TW ;/ and this is w/out squad.

    i guess it all comes down to personal profit.
    TW would come back if we could get profit directly than the leader get it from the land.

    10mil between 80 people? 800k...thats like...nothing nowadays.
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  • Xx_BeLLa_xX - HarshlandsXx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands Posts: 7,231 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    10mil between 80 people? 800k...thats like...nothing nowadays.

    10m for 80 people = 125k not 800k.
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  • Michael_Dark - Lost CityMichael_Dark - Lost City Posts: 9,091 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    The real reason TW is outdated is because the player population is critically low. There are no longer enough players for 3 or 4 tier 1 TW guilds like there is in China, or like there used to be here a couple of years ago.

    And of course, with the whole new generation of players that are born and raised with expecations of entitlements, the new NW is more their type of game. They don't want to do anything that doesn't give them rewards and just winning is not enough for them.

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  • Gralkon - ArchosaurGralkon - Archosaur Posts: 49 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    I do agree that NW is way more exciting than TW, but I do not think that it is outdated due to the fact that it is a coin(increased and now mirage) reward. With the DKP nerfs this is one of the best ways to get coins besides praying that you get them from bh100 rewards. If you are in a good TW faction then you can receive payouts that are in the millions weekly.

    The reason why this is more important now is because Nirvana is a dead instance. During all of 2x on our server I think I saw 1 squad made for it and they were running the 99 key quests. You can still farm the other instances, but it takes way to much time for this lazy barb.

    The way I have been explaining it to my faction is that NW is for getting better gear and TW is for getting the coins to be able to afford making that gear as well as the mirages to refine it. Some people are saying that NW is a great way to make money and yes it is....... for now. All of the items you can get from NW are going to decrease steadily in price until nobody is really buying them anymore. People are only seeing the initial effect of it and not the long term.

    As for spicing up TW and NW:

    In my opinion for TW, I think they should do the normal rewards that we have and add in personal merit as they have with NW. Maybe give out DQP so people can afford charms.b:surrender

    I would also personally like to see a few more maps added to both instances as well as more game modes in NW besides capture the flag. Such as Domination, Deathmatch, and all the other good types of game modes. Those first two would be the easiest to implement into the current NW maps though.

    Another way to make TW more fast paced and exciting would be to:

    -Decrease map size by 1/3

    -Change seal time on respawn from 1 minute to immunity buff for 10 seconds

    -Not sure how well this one would go over.... decrease player limit to 60 instead of 80

    All of the above changes would make TW a heck of a lot more exciting and harder for the obvious reasons. I also think that they would be easier for the developer to implement than adding more maps and such.

    As a side note to some posters: Rewards for a regular land are now 15m and if your in a tw faction that does not have a fair and balanced tw payout system then it is time to find another tw faction that does.

    Thanks for reading my two centsb:thanks
  • Maelael - Heavens TearMaelael - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,497 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    Another way to make TW more fast paced and exciting would be to:

    -Decrease map size by 1/3

    Ew. This would turn it into nothing but quick zerg rushes into the base. Hell I can almost make into the base with seal still on. Half the fun is the distance, positioning, ground gained, etc. Really, this would detract and just be lame.
    -Change seal time on respawn from 1 minute to immunity buff for 10 seconds

    Again, zerg rushes. Terrible idea. What kinda faction do you play in? Doing this and decreasing space you might as well gear people up without weapons and launch them down a lane.
    -Not sure how well this one would go over.... decrease player limit to 60 instead of 80

    Now this is a fantastic idea. I actually said 50 once. It would allow some of the smaller factions a better chance at competing, and allows the bigger ones to handle ganks better.
    All of the above changes would make TW a heck of a lot more exciting and harder for the obvious reasons. I also think that they would be easier for the developer to implement than adding more maps and such.

    What obvious reasons? Also the map changing would be difficult on China's end. Like seriously, all I see is "launch immune scrubs at crystal" outta the first two points, while making a smart point that well caters to smaller factions.
    As a side note to some posters: Rewards for a regular land are now 15m and if your in a tw faction that does not have a fair and balanced tw payout system then it is time to find another tw faction that does.

    24x15 / 80 = 4.5. While not bad, hardly covers charm costs and apoth in longer fights. Payout goes lower to defend vs ganks at that point of that many lands, which actually increases charm costs and apoth. 4.5m is also 9 tokens in NW, which you can get by barely trying for 15 minutes.

    Keep in mind only the most populous/well geared Faction (1 Faction seems to dominate the servers) gets over that 20 land ideal where you can just about pay 80 people 4m a week. And due to resets, that takes time to build each 6 month period - technically 24ish lands. Unless TW rewards totally change, it's more about the fun (Which the top faction tends to not have, unless a crystal walk is the idea of fun) and bragging rights (Which...unless it was a good hard fought TW, who cares).
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  • Nahktuul - ArchosaurNahktuul - Archosaur Posts: 725 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    10m for 80 people = 125k not 800k.

    I fail at maths, clearly. Thanks for the correction! b:chuckle
    PWI Gamer since Closed Beta (Under RisenPhoenix/Nahktuul - Sanctuary/Archosaur)
  • Nahktuul - ArchosaurNahktuul - Archosaur Posts: 725 Arc User
    edited December 2012

    24x15 / 80 = 4.5. While not bad, hardly covers charm costs and apoth in longer fights. Payout goes lower to defend vs ganks at that point of that many lands, which actually increases charm costs and apoth. 4.5m is also 9 tokens in NW, which you can get by barely trying for 15 minutes.

    Keep in mind only the most populous/well geared Faction (1 Faction seems to dominate the servers) gets over that 20 land ideal where you can just about pay 80 people 4m a week. And due to resets, that takes time to build each 6 month period - technically 24ish lands. Unless TW rewards totally change, it's more about the fun (Which the top faction tends to not have, unless a crystal walk is the idea of fun) and bragging rights (Which...unless it was a good hard fought TW, who cares).

    This about sums it up.
    PWI Gamer since Closed Beta (Under RisenPhoenix/Nahktuul - Sanctuary/Archosaur)
  • Vanflyheight - Heavens TearVanflyheight - Heavens Tear Posts: 420 Arc User
    edited December 2012

    Another way to make TW more fast paced and exciting would be to:

    -Decrease map size by 1/3

    decreasing the map might cause more harm than good most likely.

    -Change seal time on respawn from 1 minute to immunity buff for 10 seconds

    i agree to this one since it would make factions who like to do spawn kills on the smaller tw factions, making it a much better lvl playing field instead of having one faction faceroll a lower lvl faction. Plus alot of lower lvl factions don't like being stomped on by spawn killing factions. so i'd say it fix that problem for sure.

    -Not sure how well this one would go over.... decrease player limit to 60 instead of 80

    i could get behind this too since it make it a much better lvl playing field.


    I might have an idea that idk how well it go over, but how bout making factions who lose get a 5mil card and 1mil cards to everyone who participated. it could make up for the use of charms, apoth items and etc. the 5mil card goes to the faction and 1mil cards goes to the players who participated during that tw.

    PS, atm cant think of anything for the winning faction but will keep working on it.
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  • imtired2imtired2 Posts: 39 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    nw is fantastic n tw is awsome.. b:victory even though the timeing of tw got a bit screwed up bt thats separate.. both r realy exciting n fun b:laugh
  • slamstoneslamstone Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    nw is better simply because its fun and it has individual rewards.

    TW is outdated because it is fun, but when opposing factions are not "balanced" it becomes a full push B kinda war.....


    TW doesn't have rewards. That pay u give each week to faction leaders is mainly for faction leaders.....or maybe just maybe a close 3-5 friends circle (and don't bring me some exception from a random faction in a random server....im talking about the majority).

    if u want to spice tw up try to find a way to get the reward directly distributed to faction members and not a once a 6 months payday (even if last session rewards are awesome)...thrust me once the reward will get to faction members...leaders will be more selective in recruitment...and tw attendance will probably get a skyhigh jump.

    on the other hand if u want to spice up tw try putting some randomness.....for example:

    -circles that appear random have a limited window of spawn (like in circles in frost or the tt exploding hands)...but once u get pass through them....depending on the color or something u either get one shot or get an idk 3-5 mins kinky buff (like the oht uber mag def crystal but without overwritting the usual ones)

    -idk somekind of temporary triggers that once digged it spawns a 3-5 mins debuffing tower in a key location on the map (basically it may force the war members to either distribute protecting on the dig site or hunt down the digging sites)

    anything u can to motivate squads not to take just a full push a lane ...but to actually think how they put their ppl in strategic places

    or here's a thing put a quest at the entrance npc inside tw that gives a reward if u complete some objectives and are on at the end of the battle
  • Ois - Lost CityOis - Lost City Posts: 391 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    fuzzywuzz wrote: »
    So Fuzzy got to thinking after participating in another Nation War today...


    The pace of Nation Wars combined with the personal rewards plus the opportunity to fight in multiple battles over the 2 hour length.. has Territory Wars become somehow less exciting? Is appears to be so for the panda.

    Don't get Fuzzy wrong, TW is still an event that includes your entire faction and offers a battle with many more people in the instance. Just looking for players thoughts on this.

    Nation Wars seem to offer less lag, more chance to kill, faster paced action, a much smaller instance thus flag resets and resetting of the action are faster than when the cata barbs die, personal rewards, arquably better rewards than tw even if you take a faction squad, more opportunity for every level and perhaps more Fuzzy hasn`t listed.

    Just looking for thoughts..


    What do you prefer? NW or TW?


    edit: And if TW is outdated, what might spice it up considering all rewards need to offered on a faction level?

    TW has been outdated for years. There is very little strategy involved as long as you can overpower the opposing faction gear/number-wise. It also offers very little monetary incentive due to extreme charm costs.

    I participate in TW because I like feeling like a part of my faction...but TW is definitely stale.
  • Ois - Lost CityOis - Lost City Posts: 391 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    I might have an idea that idk how well it go over, but how bout making factions who lose get a 5mil card and 1mil cards to everyone who participated. it could make up for the use of charms, apoth items and etc. the 5mil card goes to the faction and 1mil cards goes to the players who participated during that tw.

    PS, atm cant think of anything for the winning faction but will keep working on it.

    So the people who lose make more money than the people who won?
  • Ajaany - Raging TideAjaany - Raging Tide Posts: 124 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    Well NW is awesom and all...PvP,Capture the flag and all...
    BUT

    TW is still just PvP fight and exciting and it takes yr whole faction to do it so takes more coordination and everything when NW u can go solo
  • Banndit - Heavens TearBanndit - Heavens Tear Posts: 61 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    Not yet a working model but theres some interesting thoughts to stimulate some ideas.

    Imagin this.
    - Elites Guilds: TW is made up of 2 opposing elite guild made up of 30-40% of the server, so 15-20% in each elite guild. Advantages of elite guilds could be lots of time saved so full time workers would gain alot by joining such guilds.
    (general idea, fill most the r9 + high refined s3, but keep the numbers small enough to maintain balance between both)
    - Merchenary Guilds: Another 30-50% will be made up of non or less pvp dedicated guilds who rarther be with their friends, but half to most will still get involve in tw. The types of gears ranges, but its the average to above average that goes often. They are merchenaries who goes to tw for fun, bit of fund, and when they feel like it.
    - The 2 Elite guild invite/bid for Merchenary guilds to get stronger. Each bid for a guilds for a turf war battle.
    * If 2 different Merc guilds are bid for by seperate elite guilds and they accept, then both guilds have gained 1 additional Merc guild to the battle.
    * If both bid for the same one, the highest bidder wins the bid unless one elite guild picks another. The amount spent on bids affects the guilds fund, and the affect is less if they spend say 100 on 5 guild instead of spending all on one guild.
    * If one elite have gained 1 Merc Guild, then that guild will have to wait for the 2nd guild to pick/bid for theirs before they can pick/bid for another Merc Guild. The Guilds fund (made up of coins + quest reward) affect the number of merc guilds involve. The effort of the merc guilds also affect the number of merc guilds involve too.
    (general idea is to maintain reasonable balance gear wise)
    - tw is held once every 2 week or so, while nw fills in the other time, so they are not held in the same week. (could make NW for all and NW can leads to TW)
    - 5% of the elite guild members will be replace by new members every 1 or 2 month, to encourage efforts to do their best, gear up etc. New members gain certain npc quest item that contributes to the guild.
    - Good leaders will be known by most of the server, elite members will be proud to have the guild tittle on their head, while Merc Guilds can afford to be laid back yet get to have pvp fun in tw.

    The Map and battle:
    - Each turf war piece, is divided into smaller turf made up of 9 mini turf, (1a, 1b, 1c) (2a, 2b, 2c) (3a, 3b, 3c). (1= Path 1) (2= Path 2) (3= Path 3) so there are 3 path to choose. (a is the castle with full support). (b is just outside with min tower support). (c is the open field which they fight for control or fight for flags).
    - Movement will be similar to NW map movement, in that it takes time to move your force and its the squade leader who move all members.
    - Movement speed is different depending on certain rules. Moving into an empty mini turf is faster but slower if its field by the enemy. Movement timer is not shown for 20 seconds or so.
    - you can choose to move your force at 2 different speed. Normal speed prevents your force from getting puge, losing all buff and start the battle at a safe distance. Fastest movement speed risk getting a suprise attack which all your force gets purge and lose all buff and start the battle right infront of the enemy.
    - The winner is either determined by the one who wins 2 out of 3 path or the one who does the most damage (offence) or prevent a sufficient amount of damage (def) of the Castle Gate in mini turf 1a, 2a, 3a.
    - Castle gate in 1a, 2a, 3a recieve max possible damage at the start but reduces by halfway. you only need a total of 2 broken gate out of 3 to win or offensive value points equal to 2 gates.
    - Another method is, once the castle gates are down, def players cannot revive unless by cleric. once a certain amount of time is reached, the battle is over therefore offence lose if they haven't done enough.
    - It is ideal to divide your force into 3 to do max offensive damage or to strenghthen defence. Dividing your force increase your chance of success but it is not without risk, as you do not know how the enemy is prepaired and how they will move about.
    - might be a good idea to allow one successful def path to move out of theirs and into another path if they have successfully def in say 1c after a certain amount of time has pass.
    - towers are not bought but are fixed in number and locations. its fire power/range depends on the weap/refinement, and number of players controlling/supporting it.

    (general idea is to create choice simple yet difficult to master. each decisions has consequences therefore affects long term outcome. It is common to move forward and backward. Successful deception can yield greater advantage, pwi will profit by stimulating wants gears and saving full time workers time without giving out too much causing oversupply but offer exiting pvp experience)
  • viseuseviseuse Posts: 9 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    yes , too expensive to run tunelling and funelling every OP in a single faction redundamt map and boring strategy, too predictable and only benefit a few of the majority. Now that the economy as crashed and trial is dead and that an over flow of n00b coming to G16 gear not going to be better. I'm bored and broke tired of TW and all the QQ surrouding it.

    we need new map and find a way to make it less predictable somehow.
  • FayHumming - DreamweaverFayHumming - Dreamweaver Posts: 325 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    b:chuckle Just make 40 vs 40 instead and lower cost build tower/DMG.
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  • SMASHnHEAL - DreamweaverSMASHnHEAL - Dreamweaver Posts: 400 Arc User
    edited December 2012
    b:chuckle Just make 40 vs 40 instead and lower cost build tower/DMG.

    Even better make it 20v20, take away the towers and replace the crystals with areas that you take a flag to to score points.
  • SuperLambo - DreamweaverSuperLambo - Dreamweaver Posts: 25 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    Las NW tienen mejores rewards que las tw, pero tambien son mas costosas, una NW dura 2 horas siempre, la tw puede durar mucho menos ademas que no estas expuesto al spawn kill, y siempre es divertido cuando mas cerrado es el resultado, Relic vs Vex dan muy buenas TW aunque la reward sea baja, se disfruta muchisimo.
    PD: us any traslator if wanna undertand this post, i am lazy for write all in english.b: re
  • SweetieBot - LothranisSweetieBot - Lothranis Posts: 18,978 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    Las NW tienen mejores rewards que las tw, pero tambien son mas costosas, una NW dura 2 horas siempre, la tw puede durar mucho menos ademas que no estas expuesto al spawn kill, y siempre es divertido cuando mas cerrado es el resultado, Relic vs Vex dan muy buenas TW aunque la reward sea baja, se disfruta muchisimo.

    PD: us any traslator if wanna undertand this post, i am lazy for write all in english.b: re
    NECROOO!!!!!!!

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  • ovenusarmanioovenusarmanio Posts: 6,695 Community Moderator
    edited October 2013
    Las NW tienen mejores rewards que las tw, pero tambien son mas costosas, una NW dura 2 horas siempre, la tw puede durar mucho menos ademas que no estas expuesto al spawn kill, y siempre es divertido cuando mas cerrado es el resultado, Relic vs Vex dan muy buenas TW aunque la reward sea baja, se disfruta muchisimo.
    PD: us any traslator if wanna undertand this post, i am lazy for write all in english.b: re
    The NW have better rewards than tw, but they are also more expensive, one NW is 2 hours long, the tw can last much less plus you are not exposed to spawn kill, and it's always fun when the outcome is more closed, Relic vs TW Vex give very good although the reward is low, you will enjoy a lot.

    Please post only in english.

    Also gonna close this for necro. A necro is a thread that has not had a reply in more than 30 days.

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