NW Tokens...

fuzzywuzz · November 2012

Has anyone been able to figure out the math on this?

Fuzzy is loath to open a new thread however is personally curious. If can get a legit answer would love to merge such an answer with a Nation War guide. b:surrender

edit: Panda is just kinda sore at his token result these least few weeks but hasn't been part of the winning nation yet...

Deceptistar - Sanctuary · November 2012

best bet some random math loving archer or that mathmatic cleric >_>

all we know atm is you get tokens for:

- tanking dmg
- dealing dmg
- healing?
- killing tards that dare look at you
- carry the flag
- being with the winning nation
- participating in a winning territory (more the better??)

My barb friend seemed to have a easier time getting more tokens then me just by tanking dmg alot. (i try to go attack as R9 seeker if that says anything...)

http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1526261
http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1523271

so a straight answer to your question is: NO @_@ no math logic yet

Zanryu - Lothranis · November 2012

Nation contribution seems to have more impact than personal contribution. The nation I was in scored 60 less credit than the other three nations, which were all about equal, and we got roughly half the tokens they did.

800k of my charm gone and only 89 tokens b:sad

_Skai_ - Raging Tide · November 2012

Yeah it heavily relies on how well your nation does early on than anything else. But for the actual math/formula, I don't think anyone has one quite yet.

XPhoenixX - Raging Tide · November 2012

Several factors emerge for tokens.

Depending on well ur nation does and how well u do in particular along with how many people show, is how ur awarded ur tokens. It is rumored that PWI has 67k tokens to give out.

Now to get credits, u either:

Capture the Flag
Return the Flag
Kill the flag carrier
Kill people just for this lolz.

Credits determine how well u've done in NW on that particular day.

Deceptistar - Sanctuary · November 2012

i personally found as a non barb, ignore the flag and kill/attack as much as you can, contributed me most tokens >>;

when i was **** around protecting the flag or carrying it, i got less lol! unfair

_Skai_ - Raging Tide · November 2012

I think Fuzzy already knows how to get personal credit, but instead is wondering if anyone has cracked the math for how you get the tokens.

Such as the math behind how many tokens each Nation gets, and then personal credit from there. I think it's a lot more complicated because I got 15.4k personal credit this past Sunday NW and got 110 tokens from the horribly-losing Nation, whereas my friend from the same nation got 21k personal credit as a Barb and only got 93.

So I think it's class-based as well.

Manostra - Harshlands · November 2012

FuzzyWuzz wrote: »

Panda is just kinda sore at his token result these least few weeks but hasn't been part of the winning nation yet...

Panda should be glad he can participate at all. For myself i must say i have to work in 4.5 hours from now on and have to sleep. I can never participate unless i gimp my RL for it or risk my work due pulling an all nighter....
Won't happen for a game

Our beloved community manager said something about examining how they can make NW more accessible for EU players yet i havnt heard anything after this statement.

Im a bit envious and comments like this quote are just a stick in that wound. no offence tough b:surrender I would love to hear if there is any progress or more likely nothing will happen about it.

About the math formula calculating the reward , i doubt we can make an accurate formula because we still dont know all factors and how big their single impact is. We need more NW's to figure it. I have my guesses but im too afraid an archer jump in and blaze my bubble ,)

Zanryu - Lothranis · November 2012

XPhoenixX - Raging Tide wrote: »

Several factors emerge for tokens.

Depending on well ur nation does and how well u do in particular along with how many people show, is how ur awarded ur tokens. It is rumored that PWI has 67k tokens to give out.

Now to get credits, u either:

Capture the Flag
Return the Flag
Kill the flag carrier
Kill people just for this lolz.

Credits determine how well u've done in NW on that particular day.

Actually if you hover your mouse over the chest on the Strategic Map it shows you how many tokens there are in total to be distributed. On Lothranis it's a little over 45k.

Nowitsawn - Heavens Tear · November 2012

Zanryu - Lothranis wrote: »

Actually if you hover your mouse over the chest on the Strategic Map it shows you how many tokens there are in total to be distributed. On Lothranis it's a little over 45k.

Due to the fact that the winning nation seems to get double that of the losers, my theory is that the winning nation gets 40% of this amount and each losing nation gets 20%.

Then the percentage you get of your nation's share is probably your contribution relative to the total amount of contribution of all players in your nation.

In a formula I guess my theory would be...

Token reward = (Total to be distributed tokens * 0.2) * (Your contribution / Total nation contribution)

For a losing nation. Winners can double the resulting amount.

Saethos - Raging Tide · November 2012

_Skai_ - Raging Tide wrote: »

I think Fuzzy already knows how to get personal credit, but instead is wondering if anyone has cracked the math for how you get the tokens.

Such as the math behind how many tokens each Nation gets, and then personal credit from there. I think it's a lot more complicated because I got 15.4k personal credit this past Sunday NW and got 110 tokens from the horribly-losing Nation, whereas my friend from the same nation got 21k personal credit as a Barb and only got 93.

So I think it's class-based as well.

It has to be because I had a similar thing happen to me.

I would gander a guess that the total number of tokens given to your nation is then divided among classes 1 of 2 ways.

Either they all get an even split, 1/10 per class, and then the total points you got are defined by the percentage of the total points your class got, splitting based on who got what percentage.

Or the total percentage a class gets as a whole for the entire nations point value and is split according to said percentage. Then it is once again split based on percantage within the class.

This probably makes no sense and is not true, but that's the best thing I can think up at the moment.

_Skai_ - Raging Tide · November 2012

Nowitsawn - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Due to the fact that the winning nation seems to get double that of the losers, my theory is that the winning nation gets 40% of this amount and each losing nation gets 20%.

Then the percentage you get of your nation's share is probably your contribution relative to the total amount of contribution of all players in your nation.

Hm I did some math based on this reward picture and this map resulting after the war ended, and noticed this:

Frost nation (the one I was in) got 11 more credits added to their score. I thought this was normal because they got 11 lands (excluding the base). From there I noticed that every other nation also got 11 more credits too.

And the numbers I got were:

Starting reward: 67,120 Supply Tokens
Total Regional Score: 880

Points			Regional Score
Frost: 32.1707%			28.4091%
Light: 27.8680%			26.3634%
Flame: 16.6344%			21.0227%
Dark:  23.3269%			24.2045%

I hope that helps somewhat, if you can think about more things to add.

Saethos - Raging Tide wrote: »

It has to be because I had a similar thing happen to me.

I would gander a guess that the total number of tokens given to your nation is then divided among classes 1 of 2 ways.

Either they all get an even split, 1/10 per class, and then the total points you got are defined by the percentage of the total points your class got, splitting based on who got what percentage.

Or the total percentage a class gets as a whole for the entire nations point value and is split according to said percentage. Then it is once again split based on percantage within the class.

This probably makes no sense and is not true, but that's the best thing I can think up at the moment.

I think it'll be 1/10 per class, then from there have those split based on personal credits.

Jaabg - Sanctuary · November 2012

Maybe fuzzy is not aware of this topic.

http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1524601&page=3

They have the basic components broken down for the score. Still vague on the exact details, percentages of how it works. If you remain alive for the whole battle, it counts for let's say 50% of your score in that battle or 10%? Little things like that. But we know the categories at least.

Deceptistar - Sanctuary · November 2012

Value of land

makes you wonder if its more 'valuable' around the nation bases >_>

HideYoHubby - Archosaur · November 2012

_Skai_ - Raging Tide wrote: »

Frost nation (the one I was in) got 11 more credits added to their score. I thought this was normal because they got 11 lands (excluding the base). From there I noticed that every other nation also got 11 more credits too.

I suspect this is simply means to balance out the rewards as even now nations score has quite massive effect on your tokens. To elaborate the point, if nation A has 240 credit and nation B has 160, the difference is 80 credits. Adding 11 to both keeps the absolute difference as the same while relatively difference is smaller as 171 more out of 251(68,1%) than 160 is out of 240 (66,7%).

Ps. The class seems to have decent impact too, as a sin I scored ~50% more than my in game spouse on her mystic and I believe out tokens were 230 vs 180. Interested to see how today goes, werent in same nation on sunday as somebody took her sweet time and got back from afk after NW had already started <.<.

Saethos - Raging Tide · November 2012

_Skai_ - Raging Tide wrote: »
Hm I did some math based on this reward picture and this map resulting after the war ended, and noticed this:

Frost nation (the one I was in) got 11 more credits added to their score. I thought this was normal because they got 11 lands (excluding the base). From there I noticed that every other nation also got 11 more credits too.

And the numbers I got were:

Starting reward: 67,120 Supply Tokens
Total Regional Score: 880
Points			Regional Score
Frost: 32.1707%			28.4091%
Light: 27.8680%			26.3634%
Flame: 16.6344%			21.0227%
Dark:  23.3269%			24.2045%
I hope that helps somewhat, if you can think about more things to add.

I think it'll be 1/10 per class, then from there have those split based on personal credits.

That's what I was thinking too

Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973 · December 2012

_Skai_ - Raging Tide wrote: »

Hm I did some math based on this reward picture and this map resulting after the war ended, and noticed this:

Frost nation (the one I was in) got 11 more credits added to their score. I thought this was normal because they got 11 lands (excluding the base). From there I noticed that every other nation also got 11 more credits too.

And the numbers I got were:

Starting reward: 67,120 Supply Tokens
Total Regional Score: 880

I noticed for all of your nations:

Tokens awarded = (Region score - 115.4)/(880-4*115.4)*67120
That magic 115.4 value is different for each NW so must depend on the scores somehow...
hmmm anyone have more screenshots of the final token screen?

Also isn't it interesting that both 880 and 67120 are multiples of 80.. the number of territories

Need moar data.

ovenusarmanio · December 2012

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

I noticed for all of your nations:

Tokens awarded = (Region score - 115.4)/(880-4*115.4)*67120
That magic 115.4 value is different for each NW so must depend on the scores somehow...
hmmm anyone have more screenshots of the final token screen?

Also isn't it interesting that both 880 and 67120 are multiples of 80.. the number of territories

Need moar data.

Here is what it was for Heaven's Tear:

http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i40/ariesdragon123/2012-12-0101-20-06.png

http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i40/ariesdragon123/2012-12-0101-20-01-1.jpg

Sheogorath - Momaganon · December 2012

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

I noticed for all of your nations:

Tokens awarded = (Region score - 115.4)/(880-4*115.4)*67120
That magic 115.4 value is different for each NW so must depend on the scores somehow...
hmmm anyone have more screenshots of the final token screen?

Also isn't it interesting that both 880 and 67120 are multiples of 80.. the number of territories

Need moar data.

Also from HT. What I have from the first day of NW.

http://tinypic.com/r/zugkk6/6

Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973 · December 2012

Sheogorath - Momaganon wrote: »

Also from HT. What I have from the first day of NW.

http://tinypic.com/r/zugkk6/6

Thats enough info to make this equation...

Tokens per Nation = (Region score - (MinRegionScore*3+22)/5) / (880 - 4*(MinRegionScore*3+22)/5) * Total Tokens

For instance Frost Nation got 211 region score but the minimum region score was flame nation with 189 and total tokens was 78408.

(211 - (189*3+22)/5)/(880 - 4*(189*3+22)/5)*78408 = 17876

That equation is a little odd but it works for all values in these pictures:
http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g264/skai168/23nov2012nw.png (Total Tokens = 67120)
http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g264/skai168/suptokens.png (Total Tokens = 67120)
http://tinypic.com/r/zugkk6/6 (Total Tokens = 78408)
http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i40/ariesdragon123/2012-12-0101-20-01-1.jpg (Total Tokens = 78408)

Total Tokens Awarded seems to be based on participation with certain thresh hold values. I'm not sure what those values are though.

Too bad this equation isn't quite useful yet but hey its progress!

My guess is that the equation for distributing Tokens across a nation based on personal score could be a similar form...

Massad - Harshlands · December 2012

so your trying to bring logic and math into this b:chuckle

Sry couldn't resist... I am beginning to think this whole balancing thing is bogus and its all a toss up... The list in the proverbial hat so to speak, lets see whose name we pull out today...

I have been trying to wrap my head around a few things and am thoroghly convinced via voodoo superstition that some nations are getting buffs of some kind... Found some of the people I fought in the nw outside and noticed a huge difference in how the fight turned out... But again its just voodoo superstition. b:surrender

Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973 · December 2012

Massad - Harshlands wrote: »

so your trying to bring logic and math into this b:chuckle

Sry couldn't resist... I am beginning to think this whole balancing thing is bogus and its all a toss up... The list in the proverbial hat so to speak, lets see whose name we pull out today...

What I derived is the formula for calculating Nation Token allotments from Region scores. If you think that's wrong you can prove otherwise.

Computers have no hats to toss. They operate on formulas. Just because those aren't obvious yet doesn't mean you need to invoke supernatural phenomenon.

Massad - Harshlands · December 2012

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

What I derived is the formula for calculating Nation Token allotments from Region scores. If you think that's wrong you can prove otherwise.

Computers have no hats to toss. They operate on formulas. Just because those aren't obvious yet doesn't mean you need to invoke supernatural phenomenon.

hehe I notice my tokens are going up slightly after every time and thats because I am getting better each time... Even though I am on a pk server I avoided like the plague for the longest time so its been a real learning curve for me. I know that there is going to be a formula to it all somewhere and somebody here is going to crack it like einsteins theory of relativity and I am going to read it and look at it and ask....

Is this in english or chineseb:surrender

The thing I am referring to as superstition is the fact that people I can one shot certain people outside nw... I can't even scratch at times inside. I can kill 100 barbs in awakened nirvana gear but I struggle with wizzes in r8 or 9x tt.... uhhh do what??? lol

Yes I know its not superstition I am doing something wrong I just wanted to comment anyways

FaceRolI - Sanctuary · December 2012

Massad - Harshlands wrote: »

The thing I am referring to as superstition is the fact that people I can one shot certain people outside nw... I can't even scratch at times inside

Yes I know its not superstition I am doing something wrong I just wanted to comment anyways

you ran out of arrows. b:bye

Toomaga - Heavens Tear · December 2012

oVenusArmanio wrote: »

Here is what it was for Heaven's Tear:

http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i40/ariesdragon123/2012-12-0101-20-06.png

http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i40/ariesdragon123/2012-12-0101-20-01-1.jpg

Afk Alt?

ovenusarmanio · December 2012

Toomaga - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Afk Alt?

No, Heaven's Tear is not the server I started on, I rerolled this summer. But didn't really stick with it until a little while ago. That blademaster is the my highest char on that server. The person in squad is a faction friend, also a low level psychic.

My main on DW is a 100 sin.

_Skai_ - Raging Tide · December 2012

Ast, thank you so much for the information. This type of math excites me because it's new and emerging information we don't quite know yet

Annalyse - Heavens Tear · December 2012

Toomaga - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Afk Alt?

What even makes you think that? How could an afk BM get 60+ tokens? Venus scores pretty well with her BM on every NW because she's great at strategizing.

I'm curious about this "class based reward" idea. Admittedly my scores are low because I suck at PvP and absolutely hate it (and because I can't stay the whole two hours), but I have been taking my archer because most of my chars are geared with Morai stuff and she at least had a R8 bow in her inventory. I do see a lot of archers out there however, and wonder if I should be using a different char...

So far, my winnings seem to be mostly affected by nations. Last week I was in the losing nation and had a higher score than this week, but got 20 tokens more this week (being in 2nd place nation).

Toomaga - Heavens Tear · December 2012

Annalyse - Heavens Tear wrote: »

What even makes you think that? How could an afk BM get 60+ tokens? Venus scores pretty well with her BM on every NW because she's great at strategizing.

I'm curious about this "class based reward" idea. Admittedly my scores are low because I suck at PvP and absolutely hate it (and because I can't stay the whole two hours), but I have been taking my archer because most of my chars are geared with Morai stuff and she at least had a R8 bow in her inventory. I do see a lot of archers out there however, and wonder if I should be using a different char...

So far, my winnings seem to be mostly affected by nations. Last week I was in the losing nation and had a higher score than this week, but got 20 tokens more this week (being in 2nd place nation).

Your initial response to my statement shows how defensive you are trying to be of Venus. My question was not malicious, it was simply a question. And yes it is possible to score that many on an 'Afk Alt'.

Yesterday got 27 tokens due to the fact I chose to run with my friends rather than my guild mates. The result? getting put in the Light Nation with probably mostly low levels and under geared players and getting utterly defeated.

Normally if I run with my guild mates(Which is one of the top guilds on the server), i usually end up getting lucky and put in a Nation of majority r9's or highly refined players. Which usually the Nation I end up in is 1st/2nd place resulting in minimum 70-124 tokens for me as a high end score. Though every time I have run with randoms it is the complete opposite, so this does puzzle me a bit.

Had a cleric logged in, got put in the Frost Nation(Which was the winning nation if I remember) played it for about 20mins or less afked the rest. The result was 55 tokens.

I think you misunderstand what I mean when I say 'afk alt'. I do not literally mean you put it in the instance and don't use it. I mean you use it for a short amount of time then no longer use it. I hope this clears up any problems you had with my postb:bye.

Annalyse - Heavens Tear · December 2012

Toomaga - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I think you misunderstand what I mean when I say 'afk alt'. I do not literally mean you put it in the instance and don't use it. I mean you use it for a short amount of time then no longer use it. I hope this clears up any problems you had with my postb:bye.

Indeed, most of the threads around here concerning afk alts are referring to when people bring an alt in the battlefield and leave it standing at spawnpoint, so that is what I thought you referred to. And I'm really hoping doing that could not earn somebody 60+ tokens.

speedfire88 · December 2012

ooo...just read this post, and i just know that carrying flag get less point then when we just do random pk inside the skirmish lol..b:angry

NW Tokens...

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