Multi Client Nation War
XTJSoGangsTa - Lost City
Posts: 90 Arc User
Some people get rewards from both clients in nation war, some get nothing at all
How is that possible?
How is that possible?
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Post edited by XTJSoGangsTa - Lost City on
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Panda is curious about this himself and Fuzzy will investigate further with the powers that be.....0
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Okay Im gunna tell you the answer:
For the first NW I multicliented and squadded with my alt. I wondered at the time if there were rewards for just participating and being there. It turns out there werent. My seeker got 68 tokens and my veno got nothing.
This got me thinking. So for the second NW I multicliented with my lower level alt - a 74 mystic and my seeker but didnt squad up and they got different Nations. It still wasnt that busy so I tried to get my two chars to the same fights which occurred some times and I ran to quiet areas and let my mystic kill my seeker. When I couldnt get to fights together I played the seeker. I think for the whole NW my mystic killed my seeker maybe 10-15times. The end result was 32tokens each.
The next time I played only with my veno to see what almost pure support did. I amped and purged and myriaded and get 26 tokens. For this third fight it became apparant that with the extra numbers, multiclienting like with my mystic to kill my seeker was going to be very difficult as the territories were filling up quickly.
For the last one I went in with seeker only and dd'd all over the place. I did, however only end up with 2 personal kills and I was killed over and over again. I carried the flag once. For that NW I got 68 tokens.
My end analysis is this - go in hard with one char and dd everything you can because I believe every little piece of damage you do goes towards your score. Forget trying to multiclient with a view to having one of your chars kill the other because its now very difficult to get into the same fight. Get into open territories so your not surrounded to maximise your fight time and have as little down time as possible.
EDIT - if you are going to die a lot like me. Dont equip a charm. You will drain it to nothing and it wont stop you being killed.0 -
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I was wondering this at first as well...because i went in with my lvl66 sin on my first nw and got nothing. so i switched to my slightly higher cleric and tried to support fights as much as possible before he got one shot. and in the third NW i tried i just went in and attacked anything that moved for what little time i had. what i gathered was the largest effect on your personal score was how much time you spent in combat during the battle.There are other factors but that seemed to be the greatest and in my second nw i got like...8coins. In my third NW i got 34. as far as i can tell the nation your fighting for needs a decent score to give you a decent amount of rewards but you yourself need to make enough of a personal score to gain your rewards as well.i am the dark meaningless void that fills all of your souls.
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MageMERC - Harshlands wrote: »Forget trying to multiclient with a view to having one of your chars kill the other because its now very difficult to get into the same fight.
Only if people read posts like that. I know people who r9 alts +10~+12, sharded, one would think they are main by looking at the gear, but alts still. Those people when they multicliented, got low scores of 50~60. Now they go on a single client and easily get 200~400. So multiclient and get 100~150 tokens, or go on a sinlge client and get 150~300 tokens, to me the choice is simple, for the rest it is still hard. They treat NW like any other instance, must multi client to increase my profits.0 -
people are just to greedy for the token so they decided to multi client to get more..0
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Some do it for tokens, some to it to attempt to handicap enemy Nations by filling their numbers with dead-weights...
Either way it should be allowed.
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Jaabg - Sanctuary wrote: »Only if people read posts like that. I know people who r9 alts +10~+12, sharded, one would think they are main by looking at the gear, but alts still. Those people when they multicliented, got low scores of 50~60. Now they go on a single client and easily get 200~400. So multiclient and get 100~150 tokens, or go on a sinlge client and get 150~300 tokens, to me the choice is simple, for the rest it is still hard. They treat NW like any other instance, must multi client to increase my profits.
Look I'm not saying you're right or wrong, but what I was trying to say was that you experience down time having to coordinate multiple chars and it might prove more profitable just focusing on one char.
Whether by intention, luck or otherwise, the design of NW with the constant moving between territories, and the limited numbers appears to me to be antidote for multiclienters.
When I tried it on the second day, it was purely to test the system to see what happened, and since then I've found the way to maximise profits and thats using one char, and dding as hard as I can. Keeping in mind I dd very badly and get massacred myself. Now irrespective of the level of my chars, the MOST I can make in NW is one char, dding hard. I would therefore assume that the same maths apply even if your using two r9's - the most you will get, should be from using your best dder and going hard on that one char.
Time will tell.0 -
DONT MULTICLIENT IN NWb:angryb:angryb:angry
u *think of an insult here* ruin nation wars
they should ban u(MageMERC) for telling in public u multiclient
if i am not wrong, a 2nd client is only allowed for a shop (or is there any other rule on multiclienting now ?)
people like u block lands for people that actually want to play NW and cant enter
and the people inside lose cause ur afk(u cant play 2-3 chars effektiv) and they get outnumbered
also i doubt its legal to farm points when u kill ur own chars with ur own chars (at least it aint fair)
i know *think of an hard insult* like dont care...since they see only their own profit
but consider this
instead of getn 30 token on each of ur chars ur nation could win more lands which could lead to 100 token of one of ur chars0 -
I was multiclienting last time, lvl 100 mystic and lvl 60 cler. Mystic was in 3rd Nation and got 83 tokens, cler was in winning nation and got 35 tokens. 118 tokens overall.
Before that I was participationg only with mystic. My score was from 75 to 87 tokens per war. So for me multiclienting pays well.
My cler was standing in spawn point, buffing and healing people that just died and being a food for spawn killers. I was playing it everytime I had some free time on my mystic (like moving to another teritory or running to enemy with a att combo activated). Oh, and whan I saw the teritory has almost no oponents I was running to oponent spawn points and hit the npcs there. It seem to increase fighting time and I suppose it can increase personal score don't have any proof.
My mystic was mostly offensive unit - I was keeping it near middle flag spot and attacking everyone I saw. I was leaving the spot though everytime I saw someone got a flag - there is more oportunity to kill someone where people go to kill/protect the flag holder, besides, the flag holder might need my heal.
I did kill my cler once but only once - I decided it is boring and unfair so I let other people to play with my "food". In fact there was only 1 war I put both of my chars in 1 battle - it was just 1st and only time, all other battles I was sending them to different teritories. Its not funny when you know your own char is a enemy and can't do you any harm. Boring.0 -
Ridelia - Momaganon wrote: »I was multiclienting last time, lvl 100 mystic and lvl 60 cler. Mystic was in 3rd Nation and got 83 tokens, cler was in winning nation and got 35 tokens. 118 tokens overall.
Before that I was participationg only with mystic. My score was from 75 to 87 tokens per war. So for me multiclienting pays well.
That could work the EU servers because their populations might be low, but when you have 1k+ people doing it, multi clienting doesn't seem to cut it for us on the USA servers.0 -
WenSon - Harshlands wrote: »DONT MULTICLIENT IN NWb:angryb:angryb:angry
u *think of an insult here* ruin nation wars
they should ban u(MageMERC) for telling in public u multiclient
if i am not wrong, a 2nd client is only allowed for a shop (or is there any other rule on multiclienting now ?)
people like u block lands for people that actually want to play NW and cant enter
and the people inside lose cause ur afk(u cant play 2-3 chars effektiv) and they get outnumbered
also i doubt its legal to farm points when u kill ur own chars with ur own chars (at least it aint fair)
i know *think of an hard insult* like dont care...since they see only their own profit
but consider this
instead of getn 30 token on each of ur chars ur nation could win more lands which could lead to 100 token of one of ur chars
MadeMERC was marely making an experiment and I thank him for that (it cleared out some doubts I had).
Also, you can do whatever you want with the 2nd client as long as you don't open any more clients.[SIGPIC]http://i.imgur.com/MtwcqjL.png[/SIGPIC]
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Desdi - Sanctuary wrote: »
Also, you can do whatever you want with the 2nd client as long as you don't open any more clients.
The panda is sure that never happens.... b:scorn0 -
-If you're multiclienting and shoving your toons in instances, you're blocking others.
-If you're multiclienting and not playing well, you're contributing to nations losing.
-If you're not multiclienting, concentrating on winning, and cooperating with the nation, and playing well - you will get more tokens.
Eventually people will figure this out. People talk about "I make more profit with multiple toons" and you really, really don't. There is less people taking from the share, and you earn more points by dealing and taking more damage - along with getting your nation more tokens by being more effective.
It's just common sense. You can't play two toons to the fullest extent. It's not even self vs other selfishness, you're actually hurting yourself playing two toons half-assed.pwcalc.com/bb6fc16982637a5c / pwcalc.com/28948ee5778526f50 -
Well, from what I can tell: I have no ability to influence whether my side wins or loses. And how well my side does is the major determinant of how many tokens I get.
So; rationally, I should try to get an avatar logged in on each side; play each to get enough personal points to get some award, concentrating on the side that appears to be winning.
now; of course, I'm not going to DO that sort of thing (not least, I only have one character above level 60)
The logic seems hard to refute, though.
Especially as your idling characters actively harm the non-winning sides; heck, logging ENOUGH alts in at once could, in theory, let you have the nationwar entirely to yourself.
One thing I've not seen in any of these discussions: There's an entry in your score for "Ranking" Which suggests to me it may be scored similarly to the lion event - each class gets its own ranking; and it's that position in the ranking that determines your portion of your nation's award.
If so, that might help explain some of the disparity we've seen - I think everyone's aware of how many more sins there are than, say, wizards.0 -
The panda is sure that never happens.... b:scorn
Let's just pretend it doesn't b:surrender
I'm innocent though! I only dual client
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Vitenka - Dreamweaver wrote: »Well, from what I can tell: I have no ability to influence whether my side wins or loses. And how well my side does is the major determinant of how many tokens I get.
So; rationally, I should try to get an avatar logged in on each side; play each to get enough personal points to get some award, concentrating on the side that appears to be winning.
now; of course, I'm not going to DO that sort of thing (not least, I only have one character above level 60)
The logic seems hard to refute, though.
Especially as your idling characters actively harm the non-winning sides; heck, logging ENOUGH alts in at once could, in theory, let you have the nationwar entirely to yourself.
One thing I've not seen in any of these discussions: There's an entry in your score for "Ranking" Which suggests to me it may be scored similarly to the lion event - each class gets its own ranking; and it's that position in the ranking that determines your portion of your nation's award.
If so, that might help explain some of the disparity we've seen - I think everyone's aware of how many more sins there are than, say, wizards.
Example is last sunday - Frost had a ton of alts and people with no idea how to PvP. If they actually even just tried - they would have ranked higher, and allowed us to win a few more lands. Instead they stood around. Had we had more active people - our share of tokens would have been higher, along with all of us being able to gain more points from being in more instances and able to deal more damage and take more damage.
So far from the china translations - there is nothing about classes being ranked or pointed by class. So until that is confirmed I wouldn't count on that.
The difference between 6k points and 12k points is not even. At 6k points its about 75 tokens in a 3rd place nation. At 12k points its about 200. If you split your time to two toons and earn 6k each - thats 150 tokens. If you concentrate with 1 toon, and earn 12k points? 200 tokens. I've seen the point vs tokens disparity personally, along with confirming with others.
Thats the flat out logic right there. Score higher, more tokens. Win more lands, more tokens to get from the split.
You are hurting others, but mostly you're hurting yourself.
But as a caveat: In situations where you're landlocked, I could see how it would be nice to have another toon to play. But the question is how long you're gonna be landlocked. If its 5-10 minutes, its a waste to play that other toon. If its an hour though? Yea then its worth it. However until you can accurately predict the future, thats kinda a risky move.pwcalc.com/bb6fc16982637a5c / pwcalc.com/28948ee5778526f50 -
Well, experiment or no it should've become apparent as early as the second NW that multiclienting is hurting other players, in my mind there is no legitimate justification for it. And much like KS'ing, that its apparently not breaching ToS doesn't make it right...
And lol at the number of tokens you're getting MageMERC, we are pretty much on par and I'm an 87 veno that's never been on a winning side... Perhaps if you had concentrated on improving your PvP skills or tried actually working for your side to win you would be better off now. Your experiment proves nothing and it isn't conclussive at all, as Ridelia clearly demonstrates individual experience can vary a lot, but the point here is not whether you can profit or not from multiclienting (the greedy noobish part of the player base will continue doing it on a "can't hurt mentality" anyway) but rather whether it is legitimate to inconvenience and annoy others trying to enjoy the event for the sake of personal gain. And to me it is pretty clear cut it isn't, there's no getting around it, it's one thing for the event not to have been designed to handle the stress foreseeable participation figures were likely to put on it, quite another for some players to hurt the community at large trough their selfish choices. And make no mistake about it, it is selfish and inconsiderate of others to multiclient through NW.
When smoking was banned in Mexico City bars a number of polls showed 80% of patrons were in fact smokers, with a figure close to 75% of non smokers declaring they didn't mind second hand smoke in this context (we are not talking schools or hospitals here) so it really came down to the majority accomodating the 5% who felt entitled to impose their terms on others. That was a verifiable loss of millions which did result in people losing their jobs and their livelyhood. There's always that small percentage of jerks in any activity that ruins things for the rest and is usually unapologetic in defending its own interests, sometimes even cynical. This is what creates a lot of the woes of the world (there's far more sinister examples) and the "out to get mine" mindset is unfortunately something that cannot be resolved through dialogue. The people that don't care about how their actions impact others are just scum, plain and simple.0 -
i can barely understand how can people managed to play two toons in a pk instance, plus the only strategy in blockin others from coming in to defend/atk is that the score from wining the territory will be distributed between less people [considering that afkers are alts + toons atking are same person] hence it will earn them more rewards.
concluding most pwi players are greedy if the situation above is trueb:bye[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
MANray_ - Sanctuary wrote: »... multi-clienting is hurting other players, in my mind there is no legitimate justification for it. And much like KS'ing, that its apparently not breaching ToS doesn't make it right...
And in other posts ppl have suggested that some action (in this case multi-clienting) is not "fair".
I find this all very amazing. Nothing in PWI is "fair". This is a PVP tournament, it is not "fair". The object is to beat everyone else. The fact that one player can shell out $n,000's to "buy" OP gear and another doesn't have that opportunity is not "fair". The fact that NW occurs in the same 2 hour timeslot on 2 days per week excludes many people for many different reasons - that not "fair". The fact that whether or not you get into the winning nation is random - that's not "fair".
Any PVP aspect of this game is not "fair". R9's are easily able to one-shot many lower level (lower geared) toons - what's "fair" about that?
If someone else is gaining some advantage over you by multi-clienting, then sucks to be you, but it is part of the game. Don't blame the multi-clienter - blame PWI for creating such a stupid concept as NW.0 -
@Synergise - My point wasn't about "fair" and I don't think you quoted me actually saying that. What I was trying to convey here is that it isn't right to inconvenience others, regardless of how fair the competitive environment may actually be. Yes, multiclienting is an advantage some players have, but used in this context it becomes an obstacle for others which is a very different thing. I'm not against multiclienting in NW because it is a cheating of sorts (although I do find this to be reprehensible as well) but because it is unacceptably inconsiderate of other players' time.0
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if you multiclient, you are taking space in an instance that could have been for someone else a lower lvl maybe? or an under geared person. If you actually try to have fun on one toon, I bet you can get more tokens than trying to multiclent, because you can focus on doing more dmg, heal, tank or w/e on that one toon. There's no point taking up extra space, go with your friends and have fun. not every one in nw are r9 +12, it is not likely you are going to find a squad of 20 r9 +12 in one instance.0
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Baby_pho - Heavens Tear wrote: »There's no point taking up extra space, go with your friends and have fun.
Panda quote that for truth....
However due the mechanics of the NW as it stands that doest seem to really work so we are going to see people trying to abuse the instance for the greatest number of coins right now.
Makes Fuzzy sick to see that but it is a fact. Have been trying to push the issue with the GM's and they are aware of the fact.
Lets hope they can bring a resolution soon.0 -
Maelael - Heavens Tear wrote: »But as a caveat: In situations where you're landlocked, I could see how it would be nice to have another toon to play. But the question is how long you're gonna be landlocked. If its 5-10 minutes, its a waste to play that other toon. If its an hour though? Yea then its worth it. However until you can accurately predict the future, thats kinda a risky move.
I guess you never been in fire nation... especially last sunday. dead last by dozens of point... home to absolute idiots whom at one point manage to run the flag to the wrong capture points. around the half time mark... was down to 4 lands... split between the 300ish players. yea... land lock could be pretty long.1. If I kill you; do something about it yourself, don't go complaining to my wife.
2. If you have less kill counts then me, don't expect me to take pk advice from you.
3. If you are hiding behind an alt, don't expect me to acknowledge your existence.
Tokichiro - Heavy Armor Fish / Kiyoshi - Dual Blade Elf0 -
Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear wrote: »I guess you never been in fire nation... especially last sunday. dead last by dozens of point... home to absolute idiots whom at one point manage to run the flag to the wrong capture points. around the half time mark... was down to 4 lands... split between the 300ish players. yea... land lock could be pretty long.
Yeah, what's with flame nation anyway? I've been fortunate never to land there (been on all three other sides) but they seem to consistently under perform every single time. Is this a map disadvantage? Right now, it is far too early to tell whether there actually is a statistical trend working against flame but it almost seems like there's something going on there...0 -
Synergise - Raging Tide wrote: »And in other posts ppl have suggested that some action (in this case multi-clienting) is not "fair".
Blow me.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
MANray_ - Sanctuary wrote: »Yeah, what's with flame nation anyway? I've been fortunate never to land there (been on all three other sides) but they seem to consistently under perform every single time. Is this a map disadvantage? Right now, it is far too early to tell whether there actually is a statistical trend working against flame but it almost seems like there's something going on there...
Nothing at all going on. On DW, Flame was the winning nation tonight. And by a substantial margin too...0 -
Hexalot - Dreamweaver wrote: »Nothing at all going on. On DW, Flame was the winning nation tonight. And by a substantial margin too...
Could possibly be due to Flame having the majority of the r9rr tonight...
I don't believe there is a map advantage it is just luck of the draw which squads get into which nation and also dependant on potential "ganks" from the neighbouring nations.0 -
the only thing thats unfair about nw is the differing amount of tokens winner - loser nation
e.g.
one of my friends got ~20k con and 100 tokens in "loser" nation, whereas some1 with maybe 5k con gets 160tokens in the "winner" nation
if u get assigned to the "loser" nation EACH time u participate, and if u can only participate once a week, if even, (~50tokens per week), how is this fair considering those who get way more tokens with less con?
also, nw reward system is bugged
i know my gear is not the best, but i do my share healing/dding/etc, i even grab and hand in the flag sometimes
and in the end i get 0 tokens and an empty mail saying my fighting score would be low and i didnt win any territories (altho i won most of those where i fought in)
i mean, wth?0 -
I was in Fire Nation and could not join any battles and sat and staired at my screen for 20mins.nooo joke.befour that happen I was seeing a lot of low lvl **** chars just afking in spawn with no buff no nothing.b:angry0
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