Nation War.....can't do a thing

RunningTiger - Dreamweaver · November 2012

It is simple math really...generally on our server we have had 300-320 people per nation. So basically at 20 people max per battle thats 15-16 entirely full battles. Flame nation for instance only has like 12 spots to attack at the start. If your land looses any of thier land at all the number shrinks. The top nation up north only has 10 adjacent attackable territories at the start.....so it looks like red lands have 12 adjacent territories at start, purple 10,green 14, and white 14. that is not fair....

So not only is it not fair. but either a limit on how many can get into Nation wars needs imposed or the limit per battle needs raised to 30-35 or even 40.

Neodaystar - Sanctuary · November 2012

The trick to enter as many battles as you can is to be fast in selecting an empty or close to empty battle field that is adjacent to you and not across 1-2 lands. Tonight I had this problem for the first time where I had to wait over 7 min to get into a battle field. I was in the Light nation and we had about 3-4 lands left. So that didn't leave much space for us to move around to. It was the reason why we were doing so bad because many of the players were stalled. Towards the end of the war, we made a come back and had nearly 1/3 of the map conquered. So I started doing the following and I didn't have to wait more than 3 min to enter a battle in about 15 min into the war.

1. Don't look at the land info as to how many defenders or offenders. If it has that battle symbol on it, then it is likely to be full. Less time wasted means less que time for you.

2. Just move to a land that has no battle next to a new land that has been conquered by your enemy. This piece of land usually has a timer and a different color from all the nation colors. So it is not hard to find right away. I think it was 3 min when you cannot declare war on. Stalk this land with the eyes of an eagle. Once this timer reaches 0, go attack that land that is right next to you. It's like waiting for a herb to pop up.

2. Right after that battle is over. If you won - great, move immediately to the next piece of land into your enemies territory. Again, don't waste time checking the land's info, or waiting for your squad to decide where to go to next.

I started out slow in the first 15 min but picked up the pace where I can enter a battle without being denied of entry into the battle because it was full after I followed these steps. I only made about 20% less coin supply compared to last time. Hope this helps.

Nariin - Dreamweaver · November 2012

RunningTiger - Dreamweaver wrote: »

The top nation up north only has 10 adjacent attackable territories at the start.....so it looks like red lands have 12 adjacent territories at start, purple 10,green 14, and white 14. that is not fair....

It's dynamic. Doesn't give as much advantage as it seems. I don't think there's anything wrong with it.

RunningTiger - Dreamweaver wrote: »

So not only is it not fair. but either a limit on how many can get into Nation wars needs imposed or the limit per battle needs raised to 30-35 or even 40.

20 seem perfect number. Rather kill half of pwi population b:shutup

mm2000 · November 2012

I only got to join there a few times, was pretty fun to ninja people with a squishy pet and pester them with it. Funny no one targeted me either. Most of the time I was not able to get in because of the same issue.

OontzOontz - Dreamweaver · November 2012

They also need to cap the move speed with a flag to 6.0ms. Barbs and archers make short work of the wars and you end up with a bunch of blue spots all over the map that no one can attack. Even worse is those same people can keep pushing while the defenders can't do much because everything past is locked.

Nahktuul - Archosaur · November 2012

Neodaystar - Sanctuary wrote: »

The trick to enter as many battles as you can is to be fast in selecting an empty or close to empty battle field that is adjacent to you and not across 1-2 lands. Tonight I had this problem for the first time where I had to wait over 7 min to get into a battle field. I was in the Light nation and we had about 3-4 lands left. So that didn't leave much space for us to move around to. It was the reason why we were doing so bad because many of the players were stalled. Towards the end of the war, we made a come back and had nearly 1/3 of the map conquered. So I started doing the following and I didn't have to wait more than 3 min to enter a battle in about 15 min into the war.

1. Don't look at the land info as to how many defenders or offenders. If it has that battle symbol on it, then it is likely to be full. Less time wasted means less que time for you.

2. Just move to a land that has no battle next to a new land that has been conquered by your enemy. This piece of land usually has a timer and a different color from all the nation colors. So it is not hard to find right away. I think it was 3 min when you cannot declare war on. Stalk this land with the eyes of an eagle. Once this timer reaches 0, go attack that land that is right next to you. It's like waiting for a herb to pop up.

2. Right after that battle is over. If you won - great, move immediately to the next piece of land into your enemies territory. Again, don't waste time checking the land's info, or waiting for your squad to decide where to go to next.

I started out slow in the first 15 min but picked up the pace where I can enter a battle without being denied of entry into the battle because it was full after I followed these steps. I only made about 20% less coin supply compared to last time. Hope this helps.

This guy gets it b:victory

Annalyse - Heavens Tear · November 2012

I, too, was extremely frustrated last night. I'd decided to see if maybe I could actually get anything even though I could only stay about an hour, but I ended up spending 40 minutes walking/getting rejected/stuck at base. In the end I was just stuck at home base and unable to get out, with all of the full battles so close. So with 20-30 minutes of fighting only, and being in the losing nation, I of course got no reward.

There are a few things that really should be changed. They need to either eliminate the time it takes to walk places (hello, we can teleport in this game >.>) or reserve you a spot when you click a battle so that you aren't rejected when you finally get there. I'd rather it told me it was full instantly if other people had clicked than allow me to waste 5 minutes walking around and then being shipped back. They should also not have the 3 minute timer on land that was battled on... surely one minute is fine, though why the need for a timer at all? It would help the overcrowding issue to eliminate this.

I also think being on the winning nation should not matter as much reward-wise as the contribution that you make. It's hardly fair if most of the higher geared individuals end up in one nation and lower levels/lesser geared people end up in another randomly (I'd like it best if everyone was given the same gear/weap when they entered to make it equal, but of course they want us to all spend more money on gear so that won't happen).

And seriously, something has to be done about afk alts. How are we supposed to win a battle if 10 people are just standing at spawn, and the other team has a full group? I'm not sure how they could do it... maybe make it so that if someone doesn't move for 5 minutes they get kicked back to base. There must be a way. People are filling up battles with alts and people that want to legitimately play are being stuck at base, unable to get anywhere.

Zsw - Dreamweaver · November 2012

I have experienced this issue as well where for a period of time all the possible fights that I can attend are full. I think any of these suggestions would solve a lot of the problem:

Being able to attack any territory regardless of adjacent ones, allowing a lot more fights to happen at one time.

Being able to teleport without walking timer, giving better and more accurate counts of the players in the instance.

Not kicking people back to base when the instance is full.

Implement a method to detect people who are afk and automatically kick them, preventing people from leeching

Have your spot reserved once you click the land as opposed to once you reach the land, giving more accurate counts of the players in the instance.

Nariin - Dreamweaver · November 2012

Annalyse - Heavens Tear wrote: »

And seriously, something has to be done about afk alts. How are we supposed to win a battle if 10 people are just standing at spawn, and the other team has a full group? I'm not sure how they could do it... maybe make it so that if someone doesn't move for 5 minutes they get kicked back to base. There must be a way. People are filling up battles with alts and people that want to legitimately play are being stuck at base, unable to get anywhere.

Agree with that.

Hm maybe they should just let us know how many people there are on territory and how many are on the way there. Like 3+4 would mean 3 people are on the land and 4 on the way there. If it was 5+14 and you are far, you'd know it's not worth taking the trip.
19+10 = lots of rage

Massad - Harshlands · November 2012

MageMERC - Harshlands wrote: »

Myself and a bunch of Frosters got stuck in the base with full territories all around us for 3-4minutes.

Eventually we got through but yeah I got rejected by like 12 fights in a row because by the time I got there it was full.

Not sure what the answer is, maybe increase numbers to 30 max per att/def instead of 20? Or a different mechanic whereby you can go 'fly' over any territory to get to another one. Or maybe you get 'accepted' into a fight by being the first one to click on the terriroty, not have it decided by who actually runs there first. Im not sure.

Another thing. I know this is open to 60+. My veno is 101 and geared for pve really. I was running around attacking, purging, amping, using myriads, pets etc etc and giving bramble to all chars I could find and I ended up with 26 tokens. Now how in the hell is someone 60-80 going to get anything?

I think its time to accept that playing support wont yield you much at all but the flag carriers and dd'ers will get the rewards.

I know one high level sin talking about 500 tokens for his effort.

How did everyone go with squadding before going in. Seems pointless to me now. Most quit the squad before the NW was over but even when we were still squadded the fight entry issues stopped us fighting as a squad anyway. The most I had during any one fight was two other members from the same squad.

Overall I still like this event - which you get contribution points for being killed - I woulda made 100 tokens

I am a sin and I only got 25 tokens last night.... But to be fair I did notice after the first hour my score just stopped moving. Even at a point where I grabbed the flag in what was for that moment an empty bf (didn't stay that way never gonna do that againb:surrender )

There were other times where I had the sweet low laying fruit oppurtunity kills... A mage or a cleric out in the open with nobody else around them.. would tele stun and tackle and try to auto attack but it would not let me... so would have to disengage try to skill spam or restealth and lose the kills

I honestly think that this being a new instance it still has alot of kinks to be worked... Hopefully in time it will all be worked out better

P.S. Someone also brought to my attention last night that 2 huge tw factions (filled with the best geared players on our server) essentially filled up one nation... I thought this was supposed to be thrown together randomly to ensure fairness.... Just thought I should throw that one out there.

Accalica - Heavens Tear · November 2012

In remarks to the last posts last mentioned line.
I don't think this whole 'allow to squad' before battling, should even be allowed if PWI is actually balancing this at all. I don't know what they actually look at when balancing, but whatever it is, doesnt seem to work. It would be a laugh out loud factor if all they do in 'balancing' is taking consideration to level and the amount of war attendants each side have.

Let's say some actually manage to bring their teams around the maps (it seems some facs are managing this better than others), atleast in extents of 5 people into a war...then how is it fair that a war will contain a group of r9 that knows how to play with eachother from a TW fac, vs some randoms who clicked to join the battle and might be lvl 80 in tt70 gear? A nation that's got such a team who can manage around the map, will obviously be more successful than ones who doesnt. Sure, it is random luck on which nation gets them, but as a whole it's not a fair system at all imo as the same group will most likely end up doing the same thing together each week. Atleast disable them from chosing who they will try to play with in order for it to have a bigger chance of working due to spreading them out.

It may disable us in terms of not being able to play with friends in the same
way, but more fair in terms of not being able to coordinate OP teams as much which ruin the 'balance'. b:surrender

Wendigo - Momaganon · November 2012

if any1 make a clientside modification for NW where strategic map looks like this, gms/devs/cms allow to use?b:puzzled

seitori · November 2012

Annalyse - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I, too, was extremely frustrated last night. I'd decided to see if maybe I could actually get anything even though I could only stay about an hour, but I ended up spending 40 minutes walking/getting rejected/stuck at base. In the end I was just stuck at home base and unable to get out, with all of the full battles so close. So with 20-30 minutes of fighting only, and being in the losing nation, I of course got no reward.

There are a few things that really should be changed. They need to either eliminate the time it takes to walk places (hello, we can teleport in this game >.>) or reserve you a spot when you click a battle so that you aren't rejected when you finally get there. I'd rather it told me it was full instantly if other people had clicked than allow me to waste 5 minutes walking around and then being shipped back. They should also not have the 3 minute timer on land that was battled on... surely one minute is fine, though why the need for a timer at all? It would help the overcrowding issue to eliminate this.

I also think being on the winning nation should not matter as much reward-wise as the contribution that you make. It's hardly fair if most of the higher geared individuals end up in one nation and lower levels/lesser geared people end up in another randomly (I'd like it best if everyone was given the same gear/weap when they entered to make it equal, but of course they want us to all spend more money on gear so that won't happen).

And seriously, something has to be done about afk alts. How are we supposed to win a battle if 10 people are just standing at spawn, and the other team has a full group? I'm not sure how they could do it... maybe make it so that if someone doesn't move for 5 minutes they get kicked back to base. There must be a way. People are filling up battles with alts and people that want to legitimately play are being stuck at base, unable to get anywhere.

LOL!!!b:chuckle

I still think they should make it so that any of those Glorified Doorstop Statues, on the battlefield that stays inert for more a given period of time, should loose their {Nation Affiliation Banners} and be given a special color too their names ~ so we can all (Both Nations on the field) play a game of Pile On, on their overly deserving Azzes... So that we can not only get them past their allowed rez count on the field, but also insure that they can't come back into any of the fields in the future by simply forcing the doorstops outta the war itself.....

LOLzzzzzz!!!!!!b:pleasedb:chuckleb:laugh

Unbalanced - Harshlands · November 2012

Maybe they could implement a system where if someone from a squad moves to a land then the other people in the squad are teleported or have the option to teleport to that land. This would then maintain the integrity of the squads and would make the instances of not being able to enter a battle less common.

Azura - Lost City · November 2012

oVenusArmanio wrote: »

Run to an empty space near a bunch of wars instead of trying to go from base to war. Reason being that often it will send you back to where you started from if it is full, although sometimes you still end up at base anyway.

This is what I do too. Instead of selecting the territory with the battle, I select a neighboring land that is empty. So, in case that the desired battlefield is full by the time I get there, I won't get teleported to the land I visited last time.

MageMERC - Harshlands · November 2012

MANray_ - Sanctuary wrote: »

.....not just a way for established 100+ to hog all the fun and further the power gap between them and the rest of the population.

Yeah it us unfortunately. Certain players are getting 300+ tokens for this event. Yes the rest of us can get some nice gear upgrades with our rewards, but nothing like those guys.

Terrastrike - Lost City · November 2012

Unbalanced - Harshlands wrote: »

Maybe they could implement a system where if someone from a squad moves to a land then the other people in the squad are teleported or have the option to teleport to that land. This would then maintain the integrity of the squads and would make the instances of not being able to enter a battle less common.

Unfortunately the lands are limited to 20 people aside, so if this were to happen, it's unlikely you'd be able to port a full squad with you if you'd filled it with ten people.

Terrastrike - Lost City · November 2012

Honestly I think the issue is when a huge group of highly geared players ends up on the same team, building up a significant cut from the pool of tokens for their nation, meaning that people who perform badly, yet are still in the winning nation, earn sometimes significantly more than people who performed equally in the other team.

In last night's NW, I swear Frost had half of Insurrect on their side. They'd facerolled half the map in the first 10 minutes. There should be a system that divides players across the Nations so that there's an equal gear spread between the strongest players and the weaker players. This would make it much more entertaining for all people involved and would cause more competition for the higher geared players. There's no fun in being ganked by 3 sparking R9 Archers.

Jesusisback - Raging Tide · November 2012

Zsw - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Being able to attack any territory regardless of adjacent ones, allowing a lot more fights to happen at one time.

Being able to teleport without walking timer, giving better and more accurate counts of the players in the instance.

Not kicking people back to base when the instance is full.

Implement a method to detect people who are afk and automatically kick them, preventing people from leeching

Have your spot reserved once you click the land as opposed to once you reach the land, giving more accurate counts of the players in the instance.

I second this

MagicEmpress - Lost City · November 2012

MageMERC - Harshlands wrote: »

Myself and a bunch of Frosters got stuck in the base with full territories all around us for 3-4minutes.

Eventually we got through but yeah I got rejected by like 12 fights in a row because by the time I got there it was full.

Not sure what the answer is, maybe increase numbers to 30 max per att/def instead of 20? Or a different mechanic whereby you can go 'fly' over any territory to get to another one. YES!!! Or maybe you get 'accepted' into a fight by being the first one to click on the terriroty, not have it decided by who actually runs there first. Im not sure.

Another thing. I know this is open to 60+. My veno is 101 and geared for pve really. I was running around attacking, purging, amping, using myriads, pets etc etc and giving bramble to all chars I could find and I ended up with 26 tokens. Now how in the hell is someone 60-80 going to get anything?

I think its time to accept that playing support wont yield you much at all but the flag carriers and dd'ers will get the rewards.

I know one high level sin talking about 500 tokens for his effort.

This is BS! I'm R9 +12 wiz and carried mutli flags (died only once as a flag bearer) and kill tons in PVP and got 39 tokens. It was because my nation finished in last place. All three fights now my nation finished last even though I killed many people. I think your nation standing plays a big role in your reward. Those guys getting 500 must be in the winning nation and finishing top of their class too.

How did everyone go with squadding before going in. Seems pointless to me now. Most quit the squad before the NW was over but even when we were still squadded the fight entry issues stopped us fighting as a squad anyway. The most I had during any one fight was two other members from the same squad.

Overall I still like this event - wish you get contribution points for being killed - I woulda made 100 tokens

Answered inside the quote!

BerserkBeast - Sanctuary · November 2012

From this and another Thread I've realized that playing support doesn't payback with tokens....means we will just see more and more un-organized groups of people who have no interests on cooperating but will just go on rampage and kill whatever thing moves (and trying to "steal" other people's kills).

In short: Be selfish.

ovenusarmanio · November 2012

BerserkBeast - Sanctuary wrote: »

From this and another Thread I've realized that playing support doesn't payback with tokens....means we will just see more and more un-organized groups of people who have no interests on cooperating but will just go on rampage and kill whatever thing moves (and trying to "steal" other people's kills).

In short: Be selfish.

Here's the thing about it. Support doesn't pay off in personal credit, but it does pay off in nation credit. Nations with lots that are selfish and don't defend the base well usually wind up in last place. Why? Because their comrades get stuck in the base doing nothing productive for long periods of time. Which actually lowers the number of tokens that you get. I think it will be interesting to see when this becomes common knowledge and more groups actively prevent locks.

RexNero - Dreamweaver · November 2012

RunningTiger - Dreamweaver wrote: »

So not only is it not fair. but either a limit on how many can get into Nation wars needs imposed or the limit per battle needs raised to 30-35 or even 40.

Is better increase number of lands on map then number of ppl in istance for me.

I was wondering if NW have number problems on one server how we can think to manage NW on multi-server?

Annalyse - Heavens Tear · November 2012

I think they really should eliminate the squadding option. Like other people have pointed out, it really isn't fair if you get a squad of R9+12 types all together in one nation, and of course the losing nation ends up with all of the lesser geared/lower level individuals. To make it more equal it should be made random what nation you get into despite squadding.

Also... it would make much more sense to me if the *losing* nation got a higher token reward. The winning nation would have a lot more winning battles, so their rewards are already increased by that. Giving the losing nation a token boost would help equal things out and make it less a matter of luck = rewards.

Nahktuul - Archosaur · November 2012

Annalyse - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I think they really should eliminate the squadding option. Like other people have pointed out, it really isn't fair if you get a squad of R9+12 types all together in one nation, and of course the losing nation ends up with all of the lesser geared/lower level individuals. To make it more equal it should be made random what nation you get into despite squadding.

Agreed. The allowing of squads is just bad.

I went in on Friday by myself for the first time, and actually enjoyed it a lot more, anyway.

Alyriya - Raging Tide · November 2012

Annalyse - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I think they really should eliminate the squadding option. Like other people have pointed out, it really isn't fair if you get a squad of R9+12 types all together in one nation, and of course the losing nation ends up with all of the lesser geared/lower level individuals. To make it more equal it should be made random what nation you get into despite squadding.

Also... it would make much more sense to me if the *losing* nation got a higher token reward. The winning nation would have a lot more winning battles, so their rewards are already increased by that. Giving the losing nation a token boost would help equal things out and make it less a matter of luck = rewards.

These are brilliant ideas!! I am not sure how everyone else feels...and did't read all of the posts here but personally I hate NW. I have even quit playing PWI altogether. The canny and rap prices have taken away my income since all my toons are casters. Yes, I know I can farm herbs but how many herbs does it take to make a cube neck? I am not in a position irl atm that I can cs...so I have just given up. 3 times in NW and all 3 times on the losing side. I am not uber geared and was hoping to use NW to make my gears a bit better but against all these op people I have no chance. Last NW I spent 2 hours purging, amping and attacking. I even returned the flag twice while others I know were afk for 45 min...I got 28 tokens and they got 100...there's just something wrong there.

Reliea - Sanctuary · November 2012

Annalyse - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I think they really should eliminate the squadding option. Like other people have pointed out, it really isn't fair if you get a squad of R9+12 types all together in one nation, and of course the losing nation ends up with all of the lesser geared/lower level individuals. To make it more equal it should be made random what nation you get into despite squadding.

True, on the one hand, it can seriously unbalance things.
On the other hand, I like to try to make sure that I'm in the same nation with my friends, if for no other reason than that we would rather support the same team together more than pk each other >.> So at least squadding initially is a nice idea.

This matters slightly less though, because of one thing - Disconnects!
Seems around 50% of people experience some kind of dc directly before entry or not long after entry.
Depending on how quickly the dc occurs, you could be split up from your squad by having to join another Nation, or you don't get reinvited to your previous squad. A lot more people end up alone, and people don't have enough practice supporting Nation members, not just squad members yet.

I do believe though that this event will becomes exponentially less enjoyable the more r9+++ are around.

Celestyna - Heavens Tear · November 2012

Annalyse - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I think they really should eliminate the squadding option. Like other people have pointed out, it really isn't fair if you get a squad of R9+12 types all together in one nation, and of course the losing nation ends up with all of the lesser geared/lower level individuals. To make it more equal it should be made random what nation you get into despite squadding.

Also... it would make much more sense to me if the *losing* nation got a higher token reward. The winning nation would have a lot more winning battles, so their rewards are already increased by that. Giving the losing nation a token boost would help equal things out and make it less a matter of luck = rewards.

i know that GD was spread out among all 4 nations we had 1-2 10 man squads in each far as i am aware, plus some stranglers who didnt squad up beforehand. it might seem like there all being tossed into one war however when you have 75 people going in from one guild you are probably gonna run into them alot.

I wish that there was less bonus for the winning nation, I see people who have the same points as I did (i had over 10k on friday) who got double or more the tokens

Channman - Lost City · November 2012

well its no longer blanced lmao, after 25 mins of getting spawn killed and 40 mins of not being able to get in a war i just said *** it and left... Well the very first NW was fun but it kind of sucks with all these alts now.. Ofc pwi does nothing to try to fix it but what else is new. Well pwi you killed another event that could of been fun

Clokey - Harshlands · November 2012

as me http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1527591

alot ppl login alt just to get more points and the event suck for those alts there doing nothing and the Nations fail :S the first day was balanced no one was with alts but now?.... nothing to say

Nation War.....can't do a thing

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