So what u guys think of the skills after getting rebalance

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BungaSakura - Raging Tide
BungaSakura - Raging Tide Posts: 902 Arc User
edited December 2012 in Venomancer
until now i cant get online, since the update takes alot of time with my crappy internet. but im wondering to anyone that able to play and tested the changes of the skill. what u guys think after it change?

Thanks in advance
Post edited by BungaSakura - Raging Tide on
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  • Ripokeke - Sanctuary
    Ripokeke - Sanctuary Posts: 154 Arc User
    edited November 2012
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    Don't feel much for me...

    Pet revive reduce to 1 second cast time, herc seldom die. If it does, I won't have time to revive, summon, heal, apply buffs and get back aggro before I'm dead.

    Lucky scarab stun extend 1 more second, from 2 to 3. Doesn't make much difference. (I'm pve)

    Parasitic nova 67% chance of chaotic increase to 95% chance. Seldom used skill as it cost 2 Sparks, rather use Sparks on lending hand... Can't use on lunar as it push back mobs too...

    Other skills seldom or don't use. Wat else?
  • Desdi - Sanctuary
    Desdi - Sanctuary Posts: 8,680 Arc User
    edited November 2012
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    I can't speak for others but I'm personally very satisfied with the changes on our skills.

    Since I have Demon Parasitic Nova, having a higher proc rate on the Curse effect is great so my debuff has become much more reliable in Caster Nirvana (and it's much more reliable for immobilizing targets and cursing in general). Also, the damage increase is sweet. Not a huge difference but nice nonetheless.

    Feral Concetration has reduced channeling and cooldown time. On top of that, it's useable in both forms which makes it just perfect. It's like a free IG every three minutes. Of course I have Demon Summer Sprint which makes Feral easy to use for me but as far as I know there was a genie anti-stun skill that Sage Venomancers use.

    Extra stun duration is always welcome; combine that with Demon Frost Scarab's freeze effect and it becomes even better.

    Our level 100 skills were finally fixed. I learnt Arcane Antinomy yesterday (8 pages to go for the second). I suppose there are better uses for a spark but the skill isn't too bad and it deals decent damage. I like using it occasionally. I might be able to TW with the time change so I'm curious to see if it has any use in PvP.

    Another skill I'm happy for is Natural Synergy; now it stacks with Claw b:dirty

    Apart from that, our DoTs seem to have gotten a little damage boost (in theory, didn't test in practice) and a shorter duration to make them more worthwhile but even before that I'd still spam DoTs on long fights (eg. Trial bosses) so I'm quite neutral to that.
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  • evilf3n1x
    evilf3n1x Posts: 33 Arc User
    edited November 2012
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    Desdi - Sanctuary wrote: »


    Our level 100 skills were finally fixed. I learnt Arcane Antinomy yesterday (8 pages to go for the second). I suppose there are better uses for a spark but the skill isn't too bad and it deals decent damage. I like using it occasionally. I might be able to TW with the time change so I'm curious to see if it has any use in PvP.

    Arcane Antinomy: A Venomancer came across this magic paradox in a book stolen from some mage. Inflicts 100% base damage + 150% of caster's maximum Mana and dazes the target.
    Dazed target's movement speed reduced by 70% and channel slows by 90%.

    How long time last these effects?
  • Kiszmet - Heavens Tear
    Kiszmet - Heavens Tear Posts: 155 Arc User
    edited November 2012
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    Personally, being a fox veno I'm a bit upset they did absolutely nothing with the fox skills. Fixing some of the arcane skills was great but fox skills need love too. The 600/800 Hp drain from leach these days is a bad joke compared to Blood Paint, which venos can't have. Overall skill damage of all fox skills needs a boost, and I wish they would do something to malefic crush since its mana drain is only useful in duels. I think some of the arcane fixes are great but to me it seems the duration and damage increase is significantly less than that of other races.

    Doubt this will be fixed given how lazy/incompetent the devs seem to be but here's hoping the pet revamp, supposedly somewhere down the chute, helps add some much needed balance to a badly outdated system.
  • Desdi - Sanctuary
    Desdi - Sanctuary Posts: 8,680 Arc User
    edited November 2012
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    evilf3n1x wrote: »
    How long time last these effects?


    The debuffs last 15 seconds. That, in theory, is handy against a Wizard or a Psychic even.

    I'll have to agree that Fox Form skills needed a tweak too. I'm more of a caster type so the updates satisfy me enough but yeah, Fox Form skill tree should have had a little update as well.
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  • evilf3n1x
    evilf3n1x Posts: 33 Arc User
    edited November 2012
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    Desdi - Sanctuary wrote: »
    The debuffs last 15 seconds. That, in theory, is handy against a Wizard or a Psychic even.
    So Fossiled Curse should last 15 seconds too, isn't it?
    Well, I remeber some old topic in this forum, that some venos saying that these debuff doesn't have a especific duration, sometimes last 5 seconds other times 10 seconds. So this was fixed. Am I right?
    Desdi - Sanctuary wrote: »
    I'll have to agree that Fox Form skills needed a tweak too. I'm more of a caster type so the updates satisfy me enough but yeah, Fox Form skill tree should have had a little update as well.
    I agree.
  • Ripokeke - Sanctuary
    Ripokeke - Sanctuary Posts: 154 Arc User
    edited November 2012
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    ooohh, i just read on the bugs thread someone reported Lucky Scarab duration did not increase from 2 seconds to 3 seconds yet. b:chuckle
  • Desdi - Sanctuary
    Desdi - Sanctuary Posts: 8,680 Arc User
    edited November 2012
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    I don't know but Demon one seems to be 3 seconds. I wonder if the increased stun was meant for the lvl11 Lucky Scarab only?

    And yes, lvl100 skills were fixed/tweaked a bit.
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  • Pantherlilie - Archosaur
    Pantherlilie - Archosaur Posts: 61 Arc User
    edited November 2012
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    Kiszmet - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Personally, being a fox veno I'm a bit upset they did absolutely nothing with the fox skills. Fixing some of the arcane skills was great but fox skills need love too. The 600/800 Hp drain from leach these days is a bad joke compared to Blood Paint, which venos can't have. Overall skill damage of all fox skills needs a boost, and I wish they would do something to malefic crush since its mana drain is only useful in duels. I think some of the arcane fixes are great but to me it seems the duration and damage increase is significantly less than that of other races.

    Doubt this will be fixed given how lazy/incompetent the devs seem to be but here's hoping the pet revamp, supposedly somewhere down the chute, helps add some much needed balance to a badly outdated system.


    i feel you 100% i am a melee fox veno myself and i am really annoyed that no fox skills were touched. they could have done something to make fox whallop something useful other than a quick spam skill. hell id have been happy if they let fox form take a little less MP. but nope. no fox reboots. just mages.b:angry
  • evilf3n1x
    evilf3n1x Posts: 33 Arc User
    edited November 2012
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    Pantherlilie - Archosaur wrote: »
    i feel you 100% i am a melee fox veno myself and i am really annoyed that no fox skills were touched. they could have done something to make fox whallop something useful other than a quick spam skill. hell id have been happy if they let fox form take a little less MP. but nope. no fox reboots. just mages.b:angry

    I think that they have to increase the damage of the fox form skills like: causes base damage + 100%/200%/300% of the weapon damage. And all skill with 100% accuracy.
  • MANray_ - Sanctuary
    MANray_ - Sanctuary Posts: 2,311 Arc User
    edited November 2012
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    I can only speak on Feral and Revive Pet, they've really gone up a notch with the faster channeling/casting. Loving the upgrades and can't wait to try out the Sage stuff.
  • soleida
    soleida Posts: 113 Arc User
    edited November 2012
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    Quick question:

    How the hell these stupid minor differents going to help us in instance like FF? Dont think these update make us veno more wanted in the squads. We still outdated! Damm even a cleric has a Phy attack that works. No we veno need to change to fox before we can use any phy attack and it major sucks because you cant use any heal skill. No the idiots made us change back to human form before we can Restore our own heal and mp.
  • _Morigan_ - Harshlands
    _Morigan_ - Harshlands Posts: 99 Arc User
    edited November 2012
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    soleida wrote: »
    Quick question:

    How the hell these stupid minor differents going to help us in instance like FF? Dont think these update make us veno more wanted in the squads. We still outdated! Damm even a cleric has a Phy attack that works. No we veno need to change to fox before we can use any phy attack and it major sucks because you cant use any heal skill. No the idiots made us change back to human form before we can Restore our own heal and mp.

    yeah, true thing.

    we should be able to heal ourself in foxform also.

    An attack boost for venom and ironrock would have been great too. <.<
  • Kazeodori - Heavens Tear
    Kazeodori - Heavens Tear Posts: 163 Arc User
    edited November 2012
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    While I would like to be able to heal in foxform... I can say that the update for Blazing Scarab is GOOD. Instead of taking that infernally long 30 seconds to do the damage, it's much more useful at 9/12 seconds. It's gone up to one of my more useful skills now.
    - ○ Blazing Scarab: Damage over time duration decreased from 24 to 9 seconds, damage increased to 100% weapon damage.
    - ● Blazing Scarab: Damage over time duration decreased from 30 to 12 seconds, damage increased to 100% weapon damage. Additional fire damage increased from 15% to 20%.

    The reduced channeling for reviving a pet... Sure. He comes back to life faster. Doesn't cut down the time for summoning it, and getting it healed enough to save me from death though.
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  • Pantherlilie - Archosaur
    Pantherlilie - Archosaur Posts: 61 Arc User
    edited November 2012
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    evilf3n1x wrote: »
    I think that they have to increase the damage of the fox form skills like: causes base damage + 100%/200%/300% of the weapon damage. And all skill with 100% accuracy.


    i wouldnt take it to that extreme but increasing the damage of the skills would be nice becaue we dont get +weapon damage like other physical classes do, we have to work off of base damage and increasing the damage for the skills would actually balance that out quite nicely. and id love to be able to heal and replenish mana in fox form but i dont see them doing that without a lot of venos pressing the issue.
  • Marengo - Lost City
    Marengo - Lost City Posts: 771 Arc User
    edited November 2012
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    Pantherlilie - Archosaur wrote: »
    but i dont see them doing that without a lot of venos pressing the issue.
    It's arcane class, use your magic skills xD
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  • Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands
    Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands Posts: 7,231 Arc User
    edited November 2012
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    Marengo - Lost City wrote: »
    It's arcane class, use your magic skills xD

    Veno are both a caster and melee class, if people wanted to be only melee class they should have pick a other class as if someone wanted to be only caster should have pick a other squad. Veno is both.
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  • Desdi - Sanctuary
    Desdi - Sanctuary Posts: 8,680 Arc User
    edited November 2012
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    What Bella said. Venomancers are a hybrid caster/melee class.
    I don't know about PvP, the physical skills don't seem to deal much damage but in PvE our melee skills are still useful especially when applied debuffs and now with a lot of people having weapons with attack levels it makes the melee skills even better as attack levels affect both magic and physical skills.

    I love to use my fox form AOE skills in Lunar (or Earth route in Warsong) since I can't use Parasitic Nova and relying on Noxious Gas only isn't going to help much and I still use them against Increased Magic Resistance mobs.
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  • Womansley - Sanctuary
    Womansley - Sanctuary Posts: 31 Arc User
    edited November 2012
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    evilf3n1x wrote: »
    So Fossiled Curse should last 15 seconds too, isn't it?
    Well, I remeber some old topic in this forum, that some venos saying that these debuff doesn't have a especific duration, sometimes last 5 seconds other times 10 seconds. So this was fixed. Am I right?

    I have observed it lasting 15 seconds. I highly recommend fossilized curse over arcane antimony since most bosses seem to resist the debuffs from the latter. The accuracy debuff from fossilized curse is quite unlike any accuracy debuff in the game, cast it sometime and you may begin to truly appreciate this skillb:pleased.

    As for arcane antimony it is a decent pvp skill for its debuffs but now it also hits reasonably hard and is a veno's only human form physical attack. It is therefore even more useful against enemy arcanes.

    Ultimately my favorite change was feral concentration b:victory.
  • evilf3n1x
    evilf3n1x Posts: 33 Arc User
    edited November 2012
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    Womansley - Sanctuary wrote: »
    As for arcane antimony it is a decent pvp skill for its debuffs but now it also hits reasonably hard and is a veno's only human form physical attack. It is therefore even more useful against enemy arcanes.

    Arcane Antinomy: Channeling time decreased from 3 to 1 second. Base damage now uses Magic rather than Physical attack. Additional damage increased to both 100% weapon damage and 150% max Mana. Cooldown decreased from 10 to 2 minutes.

    Is physical attack this skill?
  • Desdi - Sanctuary
    Desdi - Sanctuary Posts: 8,680 Arc User
    edited November 2012
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    I had the same question about Arcane Antinomy after I read Womansley's post. I tested it a bit in Warsong and it appeared to deal physical damage (higher damage on mag. res. mob) but I also used it in Caster Nirvana and I'm pretty sure it dealt damage.

    I'd need to test it tomorrow to be sure though, right now I really need sleep.
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  • Pelli - Dreamweaver
    Pelli - Dreamweaver Posts: 125 Arc User
    edited November 2012
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    soleida wrote: »
    Quick question:

    How the hell these stupid minor differents going to help us in instance like FF? Dont think these update make us veno more wanted in the squads. We still outdated! Damm even a cleric has a Phy attack that works. No we veno need to change to fox before we can use any phy attack and it major sucks because you cant use any heal skill. No the idiots made us change back to human form before we can Restore our own heal and mp.

    Unless you plan on soloing all of that in fox form, which I highly doubt if you're AA (pdef kinda sucks, although R8/R9/G16 can help with that for AA build), I don't really think you have that much to complain about. Of course, venos don't have the highest p.attack ever and that's a fact, even mine kinda sucks even though I did crit 70k in fox form while sparked.

    Oh, and most of the time, venos are going to be a support class when in squad, mainly as a debuffer and chi passer to clerics/barbs. And Plume/Razor are influenced by magic attack so your argument is kind of invalid. Venos have two forms, and two different skill trees for a reason and it's because they are hybrids. Being hybrid means you're bound to compensate on some points. (E.g. Human form allows for more damage while fox form allows for more survivability.

    No healing skills? Hmm, it seems you're forgetting about a cute little skill called Leech, with a cooldown of six seconds. Or even Consume Spirit, for mana, with a 12 seconds cooldown, 9 if demon. If anything, you're not exploiting your class at its fullest.

    'Nuff said for now! I do like the new skills, even though I don't have that much demon skills yet. For the moment, I really like my veno because of the skills we have. Then again, I'm still not 100 but I do plan on getting to two celestial skills because they just got awesome!

    As for the moment, I'm pleased with this rebalance for our lovely class of foxehs and kittehs b:chuckle
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  • Womansley - Sanctuary
    Womansley - Sanctuary Posts: 31 Arc User
    edited November 2012
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    evilf3n1x wrote: »
    Arcane Antinomy: Channeling time decreased from 3 to 1 second. Base damage now uses Magic rather than Physical attack. Additional damage increased to both 100% weapon damage and 150% max Mana. Cooldown decreased from 10 to 2 minutes.

    Is physical attack this skill?

    Hmmm thanks for posting that. I actually didn't remember that from the patch notes when making the first post, however when I used it in Nation Wars it seemed to be dealing physical damage. Anyway since your post I've done a few tests and here are my results:

    (Veno went barehanded, this gave me a constant magic attack of 2257-2257, thus results could be easier to determine, test dummy was an unbuffed wizzy)
    Normal Arcane Antimony: 1775
    Expelled Wizard: Resist!!!
    Both Apoth 50% damage reduction charms: 888 (This should be a given with the damage from the first AA and with both charms on, however more importantly after the AA the wiz needed to re-apply the physical defense charm, the magical defense charm was still unusable)
    With Sage Ironwood Debuff (-40% pdef): 2048
    With Level 10 Stone Barrier (+100% pdef and earth resistance): 1331

    My conclusion is the skill is still dealing physical damage contrary to the patch notes. If there are any other venos who would like to test and post results, please feel free to do so. And thank you evilf3n1x for bringing this to my attention.
  • Pantherlilie - Archosaur
    Pantherlilie - Archosaur Posts: 61 Arc User
    edited November 2012
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    Desdi - Sanctuary wrote: »
    What Bella said. Venomancers are a hybrid caster/melee class.
    I don't know about PvP, the physical skills don't seem to deal much damage but in PvE our melee skills are still useful especially when applied debuffs and now with a lot of people having weapons with attack levels it makes the melee skills even better as attack levels affect both magic and physical skills.

    I love to use my fox form AOE skills in Lunar (or Earth route in Warsong) since I can't use Parasitic Nova and relying on Noxious Gas only isn't going to help much and I still use them against Increased Magic Resistance mobs.


    as an HA veno specializing in physical damage in and out of fox(duel hammers for now in human) i have to say in pvp our physical skills are quite good. they dont hit hard but we can stop others from hitting us hard fairly easy with our debuffs. if i switch to using my eye of the jungle in fox form my p.def is over 10k without buffs at level 77 and i can take most any hit a barb,sin,seeker, or bm wants to dish out. its a matter of tanking damage and not dealing it for a HA fox veno. we are weak to magic like any other physical class but some people do HA/AA hybrids to avoid that, i choose to stay pure HA due to the defense.
  • Desdi - Sanctuary
    Desdi - Sanctuary Posts: 8,680 Arc User
    edited November 2012
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    Pantherlilie - Archosaur wrote: »
    as an HA veno specializing in physical damage in and out of fox(duel hammers for now in human) i have to say in pvp our physical skills are quite good. they dont hit hard but we can stop others from hitting us hard fairly easy with our debuffs. if i switch to using my eye of the jungle in fox form my p.def is over 10k without buffs at level 77 and i can take most any hit a barb,sin,seeker, or bm wants to dish out. its a matter of tanking damage and not dealing it for a HA fox veno. we are weak to magic like any other physical class but some people do HA/AA hybrids to avoid that, i choose to stay pure HA due to the defense.


    I've only recently got into PvP, mainly due to the Nation Wars so I'm still learning b:chuckle As a HA Venomancer it does make sense that your melee skills hit harder but for AA builds they are kinda weak. I'd need to do some testing though. Like I said, I'm still learning how my skills affect and are affected in PvP.

    @Womansley - yeah, I'm quite positive that Arcane Antinomy still deals physical damage but I'll try to do some testing too. If it really does not deal physical damage then could that mean the % we get from weapon or MP that adds to the attack power bypasses Mag.Resistance? Otherwise I don't know how to explain why the skill hit harder on a Mag.Res mob than my other skills b:question
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  • evilf3n1x
    evilf3n1x Posts: 33 Arc User
    edited November 2012
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    Womansley - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Hmmm thanks for posting that. I actually didn't remember that from the patch notes when making the first post, however when I used it in Nation Wars it seemed to be dealing physical damage. Anyway since your post I've done a few tests and here are my results:

    (Veno went barehanded, this gave me a constant magic attack of 2257-2257, thus results could be easier to determine, test dummy was an unbuffed wizzy)
    Normal Arcane Antimony: 1775
    Expelled Wizard: Resist!!!
    Both Apoth 50% damage reduction charms: 888 (This should be a given with the damage from the first AA and with both charms on, however more importantly after the AA the wiz needed to re-apply the physical defense charm, the magical defense charm was still unusable)
    With Sage Ironwood Debuff (-40% pdef): 2048
    With Level 10 Stone Barrier (+100% pdef and earth resistance): 1331

    My conclusion is the skill is still dealing physical damage contrary to the patch notes. If there are any other venos who would like to test and post results, please feel free to do so. And thank you evilf3n1x for bringing this to my attention.

    Insteresting, but i have another doubt in the description: Additional damage increased to both 100% weapon damage. So does the skill uses physical attackal + magic attack?
  • Mayfly - Dreamweaver
    Mayfly - Dreamweaver Posts: 6,094 Arc User
    edited November 2012
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    evilf3n1x wrote: »
    Arcane Antinomy: Channeling time decreased from 3 to 1 second. Base damage now uses Magic rather than Physical attack. Additional damage increased to both 100% weapon damage and 150% max Mana. Cooldown decreased from 10 to 2 minutes.

    Is physical attack this skill?
    Womansley - Sanctuary wrote: »
    <snip test results>

    My conclusion is the skill is still dealing physical damage contrary to the patch notes. If there are any other venos who would like to test and post results, please feel free to do so. And thank you evilf3n1x for bringing this to my attention.

    My take is that the patch notes aren't talking about what kind of damage the skill does, rather what stat the damage is based on, i.e., it's a physical damage skill based on magic attack, like plume shot, not a physical damage skill based on physical attack, like foxform attacks (fox wallop, befuddling mist etc.)
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  • Vitenka - Dreamweaver
    Vitenka - Dreamweaver Posts: 4,125 Arc User
    edited November 2012
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    Can't comment on the 100 skills yet (and probably never will be able to) but the changes I've observed (PVE):

    Stun does seem to last longer. It's not 3s, but it does seem to be a bit longer.

    The DOTs are really really good now! For raw damage, blazing scarab rivals ironwood; and noxious is noticably better. (Things that would get a hit off before the poison took them down, no longer do)

    And I find myself using parasitic nova a LOT more.

    So for me at least; nothing groundbreakingly different (which is a shame) but a nice all-around boost to my damage output is not to be sniffed at.
  • Desdi - Sanctuary
    Desdi - Sanctuary Posts: 8,680 Arc User
    edited November 2012
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    Alright, I did some testing too on Mag. Res. mobs, on my Psychic with Psychic Will on etc. etc. Arcane Antinomy is definitely dealing physical damage.

    I was probably not paying attention when I used it once in Caster Nirvana I suppose. Though I still want to go there and check it again except that it's kinda hard at the moment they way things are.

    Arcane Antinomy just became even more useful to me now though, which is good. Time to farm more chrono pages for the second one then! b:laugh
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  • soarfree
    soarfree Posts: 20 Arc User
    edited November 2012
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    this may be a bit off topic, but do the skill changes only apply to sages/demons? My veno's skills didn't update. Maybe I'm just unlucky.

    Back on topic, I was hoping for more fox form updates. At the least I was hoping that they would allow nature's grace and metabolic boost to be used in fox form, or maybe for fox wallop to become a bit stronger.

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