bows and fists for seeker
Comments
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Sirrobert - Dreamweaver wrote: »Eehm wingspan, pledge, knockback arrow, your metal skills not having melee range reduction....
What do you need fists for again?
Okay...Ill do that the next time I solo a boss somewhere.
Just as side note: There are more then 1 way to play. Can you believe it?!0 -
_Shui - Harshlands wrote: »Okay...next time a mob gets into melee range with my Archer Ill reroll a BM to kill it.Sirrobert - Dreamweaver wrote: »Eehm wingspan, pledge, knockback arrow, your metal skills not having melee range reduction....
What do you need fists for again?_Shui - Harshlands wrote: »Okay...Ill do that the next time I solo a boss somewhere.
...[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Licensed tail brusher of ƙɑƙʊɱɑʊ ~ only the fluffiest
Outrunning centaurs since 2012~0 -
The point is the versality. No reason to just pinpoint bow.0
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I think i'd look very op with R8 gear using a bow which requires like 50 dexb:cuteI do not need much,
I do not have much,
I do not miss much,
I have love and friendship,
To compensate for that!
Dragoneast-rb1-soon to be 100 again- sanctuary
Back in pwi, always returning to my first real mmo
Started in genie patch
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KrittyCat - Dreamweaver wrote: »To be honest, the day of the barb tank in the game as it is has long passed. There is no real benefit to having a barb when you can have a BM sharded with nearly the same health hitting for 4+ APS with Bloodpaint.
A barb would only slow the run down, and all that people in the game currently care about is finishing as soon as possible. The journey is no longer the best part, rushing to the end is.
Uhm I take it you do have been doing 100+ bh's and instances? I'm a R8/TT90 and NO warsong or R9 or R8R geared barb with 19040 max hp and I VERY RARELY see bm's with hp which even gets close to mine, most I see is around 7-8k. WITH my sage hp buff. Cause alot of bm's rarely put in vit, but prefer dex or str for extra dmg/% crit. Barbs are very wanted for metal and delta and lunar and even fcc still.... maybe not as much as before, but clerics are also sometimes replaced by mystics, bm's by seekers, veno's by mystics, wizzies by psy's.... So I don't really get your point
True thoughKrittyCat - Dreamweaver wrote: »The same thing goes for leveling. Instead of doing the quests to do the quests, people rush to end-game with FC, and then complain about not having anything to do. I know the end-game is lacking... but if you know this, why rush to get to it?
It comes to a simple solution: Learn to enjoy the path more than the destination, and then the destination will seem much more grand when you finally arrive.I do not need much,
I do not have much,
I do not miss much,
I have love and friendship,
To compensate for that!
Dragoneast-rb1-soon to be 100 again- sanctuary
Back in pwi, always returning to my first real mmo
Started in genie patch0 -
Dragoneast - Sanctuary wrote: »[/FONT]
Uhm I take it you do have been doing 100+ bh's and instances? I'm a R8/TT90 and NO warsong or R9 or R8R geared barb with 19040 max hp and I VERY RARELY see bm's with hp which even gets close to mine, most I see is around 7-8k. WITH my sage hp buff.
That's pathetic on their part. A LA char with a warsoul helm and +5 refines will have that much HP in their 80s as a pure dex. There's no excuse for those BMs to not have that as a base at 100. >_>0 -
That's pathetic on their part. A LA char with a warsoul helm and +5 refines will have that much HP in their 80s as a pure dex. There's no excuse for those BMs to not have that as a base at 100. >_>
True, even with +5 ref and flawless or even immaculate cits, i got much more hp, cause they never put stuff in vit, the "best all class bm path" would be 3 str 2 dex every lvl if i remember right... so they sometimes even telll me they restat their vit around 90 to 3 vit to have more str and dex...I do not need much,
I do not have much,
I do not miss much,
I have love and friendship,
To compensate for that!
Dragoneast-rb1-soon to be 100 again- sanctuary
Back in pwi, always returning to my first real mmo
Started in genie patch0 -
That's pathetic on their part. A LA char with a warsoul helm and +5 refines will have that much HP in their 80s as a pure dex. There's no excuse for those BMs to not have that as a base at 100. >_>
Since BMs need tripple spark fast we need to get fist/claw which require some dex and since we need to HF we need to add str to equip axes. So if BMs don't add +3 str +2 dex u most likely wont even be able to equip same lvl fists/claws/axes.
When I reached 100 my BM I had around 5.7k HP with decent gears and I even added 40 vit ealier.
Meaning BMs base HP isn't as good. Later when I worked off my a$$ off on gear I came to 6.3k HP but still 7k seemed hard to reach for me as non CSer.0 -
1: Really? Need to get triple spark fast? That makes no sense whatsoever. You don't need fists or claws for chi generation if you know what you're doing. Sure it's handy and makes it easier, but it's NOT a need._Shui - Harshlands wrote: »Since BMs need tripple spark fast we need to get fist/claw which require some dex and since we need to HF we need to add str to equip axes. So if BMs don't add +3 str +2 dex u most likely wont even be able to equip same lvl fists/claws/axes.
When I reached 100 my BM I had around 5.7k HP with decent gears and I even added 40 vit ealier.
Meaning BMs base HP isn't as good. Later when I worked off my a$$ off on gear I came to 6.3k HP but still 7k seemed hard to reach for me as non CSer.
2: 3 str 2 dex build is enough to get you to use same claws/axes for your level. This is something every BM who knows how to read or do simple math knows.
3: BMs have far better base HP than both LA classes, gain more HP per level than both LA classes, gain better HP per point of vit than both LA classes, and have armor that refines better than both LA classes. So a BM at level 100 having less HP than a LA in good gear can have in their 80s is absurdly stupid and shouldn't be excused.
5: So you're telling me that when you were 100 you had 40 vit, "decent" gears, and had basically the same HP as this? Really? Yet this cheap "I just hit 100 and didn't farm or save for anything so I'm still in my TT90 greens with flawless cits and not any sort of -interval gear or the like because I'm too poor/have no friends/etc!" 3 str 2 dex BM with a base vit of 5 has 7k HP. Base. What's your excuse? And don't say +5 is oh so hard to get because it's disgustingly easy to get mirages at higher levels and with DQ rewards, event gold is basically free which means easy refine aids.
As I said before, there's NO excuse for a BM to need sage buff at level 100 to hit 7k-8k HP. And no, being too lazy to use what's readily available is not an excuse.
Edit: Hell. Even if I Reduced all the refines to +3 that BM STILL has 6.3k HP base. Much better than your 5.7k HP BM that has less HP than my level 85 gamma archer did BEFORE I decided to boost her gear up from random molds and stuff to TT80 gold. I don't know what you were doing with your BM and, to be frank, I don't really care... but you were doing it horribly wrong and should be ashamed of yourself.0 -
Errr, I honestly don't know how you got 6.3k hp if you worked your butt off. I did not work my butt off, my BM is sitting in a mix of tt99 and second cast nirvana, all +4. That's easily achievable with some farming and event gold. And he's got 8k hp.
For the rest, I agree with kossy. You're doing something very wrong...[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Licensed tail brusher of ƙɑƙʊɱɑʊ ~ only the fluffiest
Outrunning centaurs since 2012~0 -
_Shui - Harshlands wrote: »Okay...Ill do that the next time I solo a boss somewhere.
Just as side note: There are more then 1 way to play. Can you believe it?!
Since when is an archer a solo class?9 out of 10 voices in my head say I'm not crazy... the 10th is singing the music of tetris0 -
1: Really? Need to get triple spark fast? That makes no sense whatsoever. You don't need fists or claws for chi generation if you know what you're doing. Sure it's handy and makes it easier, but it's NOT a need.
2: 3 str 2 dex build is enough to get you to use same claws/axes for your level. This is something every BM who knows how to read or do simple math knows.
3: BMs have far better base HP than both LA classes, gain more HP per level than both LA classes, gain better HP per point of vit than both LA classes, and have armor that refines better than both LA classes. So a BM at level 100 having less HP than a LA in good gear can have in their 80s is absurdly stupid and shouldn't be excused.
5: So you're telling me that when you were 100 you had 40 vit, "decent" gears, and had basically the same HP as this? Really? Yet this cheap "I just hit 100 and didn't farm or save for anything so I'm still in my TT90 greens with flawless cits and not any sort of -interval gear or the like because I'm too poor/have no friends/etc!" 3 str 2 dex BM with a base vit of 5 has 7k HP. Base. What's your excuse? And don't say +5 is oh so hard to get because it's disgustingly easy to get mirages at higher levels and with DQ rewards, event gold is basically free which means easy refine aids.
As I said before, there's NO excuse for a BM to need sage buff at level 100 to hit 7k-8k HP. And no, being too lazy to use what's readily available is not an excuse.
Edit: Hell. Even if I Reduced all the refines to +3 that BM STILL has 6.3k HP base. Much better than your 5.7k HP BM that has less HP than my level 85 gamma archer did BEFORE I decided to boost her gear up from random molds and stuff to TT80 gold. I don't know what you were doing with your BM and, to be frank, I don't really care... but you were doing it horribly wrong and should be ashamed of yourself.
1.Yes really! Nowadays its fist/claw or inefficient noob.
Also can you explain me how I regenerate chi fast without fist/claw if "I know what I'm doing"?
2. I just wanted to point out with that that there isn't much space for vit.
3. BMs get 30 HP every level and archers/sins 26.
So on lvl 100 that's
30 x 100 = 3000 HP for BMs and 26 x 100 = 2600 archers/sins.
Yeah that is sooo much better.
Everyone who knows how to read or do simple math knows but you can't even count to 4 so...
4. My latest BM build; http://pwcalc.com/49987de25da1bcb8 Was working on NV pants to arquire 5 aps as next.
And +5 is actually hard for me. Im unlucky refining and even +4 with tienkangs is hard for me to get.
If really you think BM being is all about the HP then you were doing it horribly wrong and should be ashamed of yourself. Really? Yes really! 0 -
And people like that are the same idiots that only use fists or will go into a group of mobs, spark, and then punch them one at a time instead of AoEing._Shui - Harshlands wrote: »1.Yes really! Nowadays its fist/claw or inefficient noob.
Also can you explain me how I regenerate chi fast without fist/claw if "I know what I'm doing"?
As for the latter, no. I'm not going to explain it to you because if you'd explore your class you'd have figured it out on your own. Learn to play.
Actually there's PLENTY of space for vit if you're smart and take gear bonuses into account. Though it appears you aren't so I suppose that makes it a moot point when it comes to dealing with you._Shui - Harshlands wrote: »2. I just wanted to point out with that that there isn't much space for vit.
Great Job! You managed to ignore everything except for ONE point which you still haven't proven wrong! And that 400 HP is a base difference further widened when we start to refine gears and get buffs, so yes, it is THAT much better than what a sin or archer would get. Now let's also mention the fact that I'm comparing a level 100 BM to an archer in their upper 80s that, in terms of quality, has much better overall gear than the BM yet still has lower HP. Archer at 87 has 700 less HP naked than a 100 BM assuming both have 5 vit. 700 HP is a considerable bonus on G16 Nirvana that is considered and taken into account when comparing it to G15. So if you have any hint of a brain whatsoever, let's see you wiggle your way out of the fact that at the end of the day the BM has all the advantages when it comes to HP over an archer ~15-20 levels below them, and thus has no excuse for having lower HP than them._Shui - Harshlands wrote: »
Or you can keep being stupid and ignoring the point. That works too.
Idiot.
And? I already made another link using much worse gear showing you'd still be at a certain level even with +3. And NOBODY! not even the most unlucky person on the planet, has an excuse for not being able to have at least +3 by level 100. Also lol@your +7 weapon defeating your point while you have (at most) +4 armors. That made me chuckle a bit since you could obviously either afford enough coin to buy Deicides, didn't have problems refining them yourself, or had a friend nice enough to give them to you... and all three scenarios mean you have the capacity to get +5s on your armor but simply chose to ignore those benefits in favor of HERPDERPAPS!_Shui - Harshlands wrote: »4. My latest BM build; http://pwcalc.com/49987de25da1bcb8 Was working on NV pants to arquire 5 aps as next.
And +5 is actually hard for me. Im unlucky refining and even +4 with tienkangs is hard for me to get.
Though seeing your calc, why am I not surprised in the slightest that you're one of the noobs that runs around with double lolevasion ornaments, has one useful ring while the other is pretty much **** for your level (seriously, get another heavenly lord or a pair of bands. They're both cheaper than dirt, stupidly common, and will be much greater benefit than your current setup), and still has... TT90 +3 (Oh and is trying to get 5 APS while not bothering with the defenses needed to actually tank anything and lacking the skill to do so without raw stats) at level 100?
You're an idiot. I don't think BM is all about the HP at all. However, there's a difference between having low HP and having crappy and neglected gear. You fall into the latter category to have ever had below 6k HP at level 100 on a heavy armored class and, again, should be absolutely ashamed of yourself._Shui - Harshlands wrote: »If really you think BM being is all about the HP then you were doing it horribly wrong and should be ashamed of yourself. Really? Yes really!0 -
And people like that are the same idiots that only use fists or will go into a group of mobs, spark, and then punch them one at a time instead of AoEing.
As for the latter, no. I'm not going to explain it to you because if you'd explore your class you'd have figured it out on your own. Learn to play.
I know exactly know to play BM compared to you
How can I gain chi faster without fist/axe "if I know what about doing"?
So you call ppl using fists/claws "idiots" huh?
Then you obvoiusly don't know anything about BMs yourself...
The gear vit is obvious...Actually there's PLENTY of space for vit if you're smart and take gear bonuses into account. Though it appears you aren't so I suppose that makes it a moot point when it comes to dealing with you.
This just contains nothing but insults and non-sense.Great Job! You managed to ignore everything except for ONE point which you still haven't proven wrong! And that 400 HP is a base difference further widened when we start to refine gears and get buffs, so yes, it is THAT much better than what a sin or archer would get. Now let's also mention the fact that I'm comparing a level 100 BM to an archer in their upper 80s that, in terms of quality, has much better overall gear than the BM yet still has lower HP. Archer at 87 has 700 less HP naked than a 100 BM assuming both have 5 vit. 700 HP is a considerable bonus on G16 Nirvana that is considered and taken into account when comparing it to G15. So if you have any hint of a brain whatsoever, let's see you wiggle your way out of the fact that at the end of the day the BM has all the advantages when it comes to HP over an archer ~15-20 levels below them, and thus has no excuse for having lower HP than them.
Or you can keep being stupid and ignoring the point. That works too.
I don't have good helmet, yet which makes 1-2k HP difference between your +5 warsoul.
And? I already made another link using much worse gear showing you'd still be at a certain level even with +3. And NOBODY! not even the most unlucky person on the planet, has an excuse for not being able to have at least +3 by level 100. Also lol@your +7 weapon defeating your point while you have (at most) +4 armors. That made me chuckle a bit since you could obviously either afford enough coin to buy Deicides, didn't have problems refining them yourself, or had a friend nice enough to give them to you... and all three scenarios mean you have the capacity to get +5s on your armor but simply chose to ignore those benefits in favor of HERPDERPAPS!
Though seeing your calc, why am I not surprised in the slightest that you're one of the noobs that runs around with double lolevasion ornaments, has one useful ring while the other is pretty much **** for your level (seriously, get another heavenly lord or a pair of bands. They're both cheaper than dirt, stupidly common, and will be much greater benefit than your current setup), and still has... TT90 +3 (Oh and is trying to get 5 APS while not bothering with the defenses needed to actually tank anything and lacking the skill to do so without raw stats) at level 100?
You're an idiot. I don't think BM is all about the HP at all. However, there's a difference between having low HP and having crappy and neglected gear. You fall into the latter category to have ever had below 6k HP at level 100 on a heavy armored class and, again, should be absolutely ashamed of yourself.
This is just 100% non-sense and insults. I worked hard on my gear and Im still.
Why would I be ashamed by myself? I do everything great with my BMs gear and Im an admired BM in my faction even with 6.3k HP because "I know what Im doing." Can u believe it?!
YOU should be ashamed by yourself. Only real noobs think its all about the gear and HP. I really don't care about my HP.
Lemme know when u got something beneficial to say than nonsense elitism and insults 0 -
Uhm Shui? For a person that doesn't even have a real bm and only plays her hubby's 101 fist/claw bm knows there are plenty of skill that gets you chi aside from fist/claw.
You makes me laugh. You questioned me about never played a melee, and yet you sound like someone that doesn't know how to play bm AND archer.
Must say, I seriously find this thread entertaining b:chuckle[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Siggy made by Silvychar
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Totally agree with you, Miko. This idiot is trying to act like he has even the slightest clue when he doesn't know a damn thing about his class and is then trying to say he has better skills than someone who DOES know how to play the class well. Yet every single post he's made in this thread is a complete contradiction to that. Oh and he actually thinks TT99+5 is some magical game breaking glitch that allows you to bypass PvP damage penalty on sage archers. b:laugh
Way to not read and pull **** out of your rear end. Have you made it into middle school yet? Because I'm seriously doubting the capabilities of your reading comprehension._Shui - Harshlands wrote: »I know exactly know to play BM compared to you
How can I gain chi faster without fist/axe "if I know what about doing"?
So you call ppl using fists/claws "idiots" huh?
Then you obvoiusly don't know anything about BMs yourself...
... You really thought of vit bonuses of all the...*facepalm*_Shui - Harshlands wrote: »The gear vit is obvious...
Lol... just... lol. You just had to go and prove my point didn't you?
Actually it's not nonsense. You're simply too stupid/stubborn/ignorant to pay any attention or see it. Pick one, or all three. I don't really care because it's pretty much the same difference right now._Shui - Harshlands wrote: »This just contains nothing but insults and non-sense.
I don't have good helmet, yet which makes 1-2k HP difference between your +5 warsoul.
As for your helmet, it's NOT a 1-2k HP difference you idiot. Learn basic math. It's only a 342 HP difference in favor of the Warsoul. Which, according to the BS you were spewing that I responded to in that quote, doesn't make any difference in your opinion. And considering that the 15 LEVELS LOWER archer with that on would still be unable to match a BM with a +3 set, you're kinda making yourself look even stupider here by even trying to bring that up.
Yeah... you keep telling yourself that. Meanwhile, myself and everyone else with a functional brain shall be over here laughing. And we're laughing at you, not with you._Shui - Harshlands wrote: »This is just 100% non-sense and insults. I worked hard on my gear and Im still.
Why would I be ashamed by myself? I do everything great with my BMs gear and Im an admired BM in my faction even with 6.3k HP because "I know what Im doing." Can u believe it?!
Hey look! You ignored what I said again and simply proved you're an idiot that can't read. Great job!_Shui - Harshlands wrote: »YOU should be ashamed by yourself. Only real noobs think its all about the gear and HP. I really don't care about my HP.
Lemme know when u got something beneficial to say than nonsense elitism and insults
Seriously, Shui. Come back when you actually have a clue what you're talking about and can raise a point that isn't easily laughed at or even counter the points of someone who has experience playing. Until you do that you're just going to make yourself look even worse.... if that's even possible at this point.0 -
http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1467371 b:surrender
I felt sorry for Malael...[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Licensed tail brusher of ƙɑƙʊɱɑʊ ~ only the fluffiest
Outrunning centaurs since 2012~0 -
Xainou - Sanctuary wrote: »http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1467371 b:surrender
I felt sorry for Malael...
Way to shoot down his claim about being oh so skilled and respected even harder... I feel kinda bad for Malael too, though... b:surrender0 -
Even though I have nothing against letting people use whatever weapons they want, be it seeker, archer, bm, barb or a claw wizard, however fail or boring it may be, I simply must agree that this shui person has terrible arguments.
The one important reason to let people use claws is to give them freedom to play however the hell they want. If I wanna make a fail 5aps cleric, let me. If, for the lulz, I were to make an AA Barb (as someone have), let me use a wand with it, to match. If I don't wanna be using ONLY swords on a seeker, let me too. Why can't I change my gameplay every now and then? Why limit it to a single weapon?
Would that create a huge amount of "fist only" fail seekers? Maybe. But there's nothing forcing you to squad with them, so whatever. Also, allowing them to use fist would also create a few very nicely skilled seekers who can do pulls with swords and bosses with claws/fists, switching to debuff boss when needed. Granted, they'd be less than the fail ones, but fail people outnumber nonfail in orthodox and heterodox builds anyway.0 -
MikoTenshi - Sanctuary wrote: »Uhm Shui? For a person that doesn't even have a real bm and only plays her hubby's 101 fist/claw bm knows there are plenty of skill that gets you chi aside from fist/claw.
You makes me laugh. You questioned me about never played a melee, and yet you sound like someone that doesn't know how to play bm AND archer.
Must say, I seriously find this thread entertaining b:chuckle
Can you explain me which those are?
Cuz there aren't any unless you are use blades as demon or are a sage BM b:chuckle
http://www.ecatomb.net/skillpwi.phpTotally agree with you, Miko. This idiot is trying to act like he has even the slightest clue when he doesn't know a damn thing about his class and is then trying to say he has better skills than someone who DOES know how to play the class well. Yet every single post he's made in this thread is a complete contradiction to that. Oh and he actually thinks TT99+5 is some magical game breaking glitch that allows you to bypass PvP damage penalty on sage archers. b:laugh
Way to not read and pull **** out of your rear end. Have you made it into middle school yet? Because I'm seriously doubting the capabilities of your reading comprehension.
... You really thought of vit bonuses of all the...*facepalm*
Lol... just... lol. You just had to go and prove my point didn't you?
Actually it's not nonsense. You're simply too stupid/stubborn/ignorant to pay any attention or see it. Pick one, or all three. I don't really care because it's pretty much the same difference right now.
As for your helmet, it's NOT a 1-2k HP difference you idiot. Learn basic math. It's only a 342 HP difference in favor of the Warsoul. Which, according to the BS you were spewing that I responded to in that quote, doesn't make any difference in your opinion. And considering that the 15 LEVELS LOWER archer with that on would still be unable to match a BM with a +3 set, you're kinda making yourself look even stupider here by even trying to bring that up.
Yeah... you keep telling yourself that. Meanwhile, myself and everyone else with a functional brain shall be over here laughing. And we're laughing at you, not with you.
Hey look! You ignored what I said again and simply proved you're an idiot that can't read. Great job!
Seriously, Shui. Come back when you actually have a clue what you're talking about and can raise a point that isn't easily laughed at or even counter the points of someone who has experience playing. Until you do that you're just going to make yourself look even worse.... if that's even possible at this point.
Yeah keep the insult going. It just shows what kind of miserable person you actually are.
So you are insulting me cuz I have no "pro" gears, less than 7k HP, use all wep paths and dont play exactly as you do?
Do you know how elistictic and stupid that sounds?
I really dont get what your problem is.
I know exactly how to play my class even without 23092037 HP and +12 gears.
Did any of you here even ever saw me playing? No.
Everybody who was in squad with me knows Im a good BM/Archer/Cleric and as I said Im admired in my faction so I dont care about the opinion of a random forum troll anyway.
Im usually a nice and tolerant person but you are one of the most disgusting things I ever met in my life.
Feel honored to be the first person I ever block.
Well at least you are good at 1 thing, right truekossy?
Good luck in life, loser. (:0 -
augustfinknottle wrote: »Even though I have nothing against letting people use whatever weapons they want, be it seeker, archer, bm, barb or a claw wizard, however fail or boring it may be, I simply must agree that this shui person has terrible arguments.
The one important reason to let people use claws is to give them freedom to play however the hell they want. If I wanna make a fail 5aps cleric, let me. If, for the lulz, I were to make an AA Barb (as someone have), let me use a wand with it, to match. If I don't wanna be using ONLY swords on a seeker, let me too. Why can't I change my gameplay every now and then? Why limit it to a single weapon?
Would that create a huge amount of "fist only" fail seekers? Maybe. But there's nothing forcing you to squad with them, so whatever. Also, allowing them to use fist would also create a few very nicely skilled seekers who can do pulls with swords and bosses with claws/fists, switching to debuff boss when needed. Granted, they'd be less than the fail ones, but fail people outnumber nonfail in orthodox and heterodox builds anyway.
Except gear expectations on other people are a reality. You can't just pretend that it wouldn't have any effect on others, even if they aren't in your squad, necessarily. When APS came out, it made it hard for everyone else to play the way they wanted to play. Sure you still could, but your in-game life became a lot harder. APS had a far easier time making money and could make it a rate much, much faster than anyone else at a far lower costs. This allowed aps to control the prices for many things. Because they set the standard that of course no one else could produce. You can run faster and cheaper, you get to undercut everyone else and still make far more money than them because you sell more and get more supply too. It was completely out of balance. It still isn't perfectly imbalanced yet, and that's why they still have to make up for it all this time later. Now they've done things to make up for it a bit, tweaked caves to make them harder. Made new things less easy to solo. Invented a whole new type of nirvana. etc etc.
The best way to make a game is to attempt some type of balance, and yes this means sometimes preventing people from being able to make things that are too OP. Or if you introduced something to OP into the game, figure out ways to fix it. Not continuously add to it. To not introduce content into the game just because someone wants to have everything on the same character.
This is what PWI should be working towards. And that means not creating anymore APS classes and doing what they are currently doing to make all different kinds of options viable and strong. http://penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/perfect-imbalance
And let's be honest here. Nobody wants it for versatility. That class is already pretty versatile. They have all different types of skills, they can be debuffers, aoe tanks, ranged DDers, single target DDers, depending on the squad and seeker, they can be tanks. If this was about versatility why not say open up all weapons to seekers? It's because it's really not, it's all about the fists. Yet another class playing the game the same way every other melee class does which is debuff (maybe)+spark+autoattack adds zero versatility to the game.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Thanks Silvy for the superb sig
VenusArmani's word of the moment: Expand your Vocabulary, Expand your horizons!
pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=17992481&postcount=189
Pusillanimous:
1) lacking courage or resolution; cowardly; faint-hearted
2) Proceeding from or indicating a cowardly spirit0 -
VenusArmani - Dreamweaver wrote: »Lots of things here
I cut your text to avoid a huge huge huge huge post, but everything you said is true, at least to some degree. Although I don't think that letting seekers use fists or bows would break any balance in the game, since barbs, archers and venos are already allowed to. In order to "balance" it, those classes should be forbidden to use, which won't happen because PWI would have to find a decent way to compensate those who currently have G16 +12 fists with drakeflames and full aps gear + their TW gear for making a couple billion coins worth of coins useless.
My point is exclusively from the person playing the claw/fist/bow toon because the game experience, though collective, starts on a player feeling comfortable when playing the game.
I was here when the aps craze begun. It was terrible for the casters to get a squad, but I've never had any problem on my tank barb. That problem, however, only seems to be a problem for those who actually benefited from having the upper hand. Venos, especially, were terribly mad for having their prices undercut.
In the end, they were complaining that gear was getting affordable for the medium player. Even though terribly unbalanced, aps also made up for an awesome spread in the possibilities of gearing up. Remember when TT99 was HARD to get and gold mats were sold at chip price or even higher? That stopped being true when aps became mainstream and gold mats flooded the market, making up for some real competition.
Ofc, as a barb farmer, I also had it terrible. Suddenly the mats I farmed with a cleric friend from duoing TT 3-1, 3-2 and 3-3 were worth close to nothing. Doesn't mean I don't see that as a benefit for the game population as a whole. Lots of players are very casual and don't have the time to farm much, and had to slowly gear up. The availability of easier mats made them able to get their TT99 almost effortless, just from BH rewards and the likes of it.
In squads, too, I've never seen someone who doesn't like aps deny a 5aps +12 sin in their squad to bring in some other class, except for AoE instances, so most of the bash on the aps people is one-sided only. "If he profits from it alone, I hate it. If we profit together, it's awesome". Not saying that's you, just saying it's what I see in game.
People actually encourage apsers when they form FC squads and want 1 cleric, 2 seeker/barb/bm (limited to 1 of any class), and 3 sins. And those who ask for a million sins aren't the sins, usually, but the cleric or bm or whoever is forming. "Because we wanna do it fast".
So that game/gear expectation you mention, well, it's actually more common to have people willing to do the most possible in the least possible time than to make squads that "can finish the run someday". So why do you say it's making the game worse if it's clearly what most want? Because some don't want it doesn't mean the whole game population don't want it.
One can always argue that "game population is too dumb to know better". I agree. I'm not a claw barb for a reason. I was for like 5 hours, and then reset back from that terribly boring build. But who am I to know better than the people who feel it what pleases them? And it's not a crime to be dumb, either.
You say that claws/fists reduce the game's versatility, I say who's talking about the game as a whole? People want to be versatile themselves, not to see that versatility in that very abstract sense of "a versatile game". Adding claws to seekers without taking away their sword skills wouldn't reduce the game versatility in anyway either, since their skills would still be there to be used whenever they need them. But, sure, versatility is not the reason people wanna use fists. They just wanna be able to kill bosses faster, which is not a crime.
I'll stop writing now. Too much of a wall of text already.
P.s.: That link won't work here, I'm at work. Maybe I'll try it at home if it's actually important for the discussion.0 -
_Shui - Harshlands wrote: »Can you explain me which those are?
Cuz there aren't any unless you are use blades as demon or are a sage BM b:chuckle
http://www.ecatomb.net/skillpwi.php
I'm NOT interested in arguing with you seeing all your replies to everyone was quite stupid. I had fun replying to auguesfin because his argues are more legit and make sense in one way or another. You? You sound like the typical "APs or GTFO" type of people. Everything is fist fist fist, even as archer, it is STILL fist fist fist. Hence I'm not going to bother answering your question.
PS. you do realized any skill that doesn't require chi GIVES chi upon use, right? Just some skills give additional chi. (:[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Siggy made by Silvychar0 -
MikoTenshi - Sanctuary wrote: »I'm NOT interested in arguing with you seeing all your replies to everyone was quite stupid. I had fun replying to auguesfin because his argues are more legit and make sense in one way or another. You? You sound like the typical "APs or GTFO" type of people. Everything is fist fist fist, even as archer, it is STILL fist fist fist. Hence I'm not going to bother answering your question.
Doesn't help that he doesn't actually bother reading, either. It does give some nice +1s though.0 -
-
Gotta love those 'You're noob, I'm right!!! I BLOCK OYU; LOSER!" people. o_o Way to lose an argument. lol[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Licensed tail brusher of ƙɑƙʊɱɑʊ ~ only the fluffiest
Outrunning centaurs since 2012~0 -
MikoTenshi - Sanctuary wrote: »I'm NOT interested in arguing with you seeing all your replies to everyone was quite stupid. I had fun replying to auguesfin because his argues are more legit and make sense in one way or another. You? You sound like the typical "APs or GTFO" type of people. Everything is fist fist fist, even as archer, it is STILL fist fist fist. Hence I'm not going to bother answering your question.
PS. you do realized any skill that doesn't require chi GIVES chi upon use, right? Just some skills give additional chi. (:
Nopes Im no aps or gtfo. I usually dislike those ppl myself.
As I mentioned I use all wep paths for BM and for my Archer I mainly use bows.0 -
Xainou - Sanctuary wrote: »Gotta love those 'You're noob, I'm right!!! I BLOCK OYU; LOSER!" people. o_o Way to lose an argument. lol
Shut the troll cuz Ill completly ignore it from now.0 -
^ Use multi-quote or edit instead of double posting. Especially since the latter isn't allowed.Xainou - Sanctuary wrote: »Gotta love those 'You're noob, I'm right!!! I BLOCK OYU; LOSER!" people. o_o Way to lose an argument. lol
Yep. Can't counter a single point and instead resort to demanding to get the last bit in while trying to act like they're in the right. Sad but amusing.0 -
@thread
Okay everyone, please calm down and don't flame each other. I don't want to have to close it. b:surrenderaugustfinknottle wrote: »P.s.: That link won't work here, I'm at work. Maybe I'll try it at home if it's actually important for the discussion.
Please do watch the link. You'll see what I mean about good game design....0
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