With the New Expansion... Please Think About How to Fix the In Game Economy

elieli
elieli Posts: 0 Arc User
edited November 2012 in Suggestion Box
The new up coming expansion sounds wonderful. But the title of this post says it all

Thank you for your consideration
Post edited by elieli on

Comments

  • iexze
    iexze Posts: 239 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    It's not up to PWI to fix the economy, it's the players that have made it.
  • elieli
    elieli Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    iexze wrote: »
    It's not up to PWI to fix the economy, it's the players that have made it.

    I believe that there is a lot that PWI can do to regulate the economy. Preventing economic chaos. Every government does it. PWI can do it.
  • iexze
    iexze Posts: 239 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    elieli wrote: »
    I believe that there is a lot that PWI can do to regulate the economy. Preventing economic chaos. Every government does it. PWI can do it.
    Explain how they could do it?
  • mataputas
    mataputas Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    iexze wrote: »
    Explain how they could do it?

    man, i've left the game for 5 months or so .. but the reason i left the game, was exacly the economy of the game that is screwd .. back in my time, i was able to buy 1 ( coin of real money i think it is gold ) for 100k .. this means 100 000 in game money .. that time was awsome, because every1 could be a good player with good equipment .. now, i mean, when i left, the gold was for 1.4 million, thats stupid ... and to make the things even worst there arent any BH's or FCC's squads .. how can a non-cash shopper Lv up to Lv 100 ?

    To fix that, i think that the "head's" exp should be distributed by all the FCC cave's mobs and the cave should have a max. limit Lv, for ex: Lv 95, and for a Lv 95+ player come in, he couldnt have any 95- player in his squad, so that could end the heads busines and i think that some of the economy of the game could get a little better ..

    P.S: not to talk about the TT's busines that arent profitable anymore, and that balanced the game's economy, cuz of the low Lv's gears and the high Lv's money ..


    i gave some years of my life to this game ( more than 5 ), because the system was unique, now it is just one more greedy and selfish system as thousands of games out there .. its a shame, because PWI was a really cool game to play, and to make friends and to spend some time .. now, it isn't a game anymore ..

    ( english isnt my native language, sorry for the bad grammar )
  • elieli
    elieli Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    iexze wrote: »
    Explain how they could do it?
    1. Get rid of the tokens of luck
    2. Divorce the cash shop from the in game economy. The cash shop items only gets traded in the cash shop
    3. Better balance the drop rates for mats required for crafting if a player is qualified for crafting
    4. Drop rate for mob is fixed for per individual unit (eg toon or squad) not on how many individual units are hunting the same mob due to the coincidence of having the same quest at the same time.
    5. Make higher level items that are shown to be in game obtainable in the game (gems, reputation, etc) and not dependant on how much real money is spent.
    6. Make reputation better reflect achievements in the game rather than how much real money has been spent.
    7. Oh... almost forgot. Make cash shop items actually affordable.
    8. One thing to consider is a quasi subscription program whereby a user agrees to pay for a fixed amount of time and they get the same Zen they would get every month when sold at regular prices plus the equivalent in gold. That would offset the in game changes and make it worth while for people with spare cash to spend some of it to play perfect world. PWI remains free to play, but a person that does pay get bonuses. Sort of a reward for being a loyal customer.

    I'm sure that there are a bunch of other things that can be done.
  • iexze
    iexze Posts: 239 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    Yes but the game has to generate a huge income otherwise there would be no game, Of course you can level to 100 I have several 70's+ that have never P lvl'd. It only takes a few weeks or not even that now with the dailys and such.
  • elieli
    elieli Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    There are numerous examples of games generating money and still having everything that is supposed to be in the game in the game.

    If people are not playing the game, PWI won't generate the revenue. If customer loyalty is not rewarded you won't get repeat customers.
  • babydoll08
    babydoll08 Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    they could make a price limit on shops where you cant sale items pass so much :) that would help a lot if they did that like u cant sale them for any more then 900k or some thing or cant go pass 1mill like money block so they cant sale things for way to much money
  • Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands
    Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands Posts: 7,231 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    iexze wrote: »
    It's not up to PWI to fix the economy, it's the players that have made it.

    ^ That.
    elieli wrote: »
    1. Get rid of the tokens of luck
      Ok how people will get pots and the other items?
    2. Divorce the cash shop from the in game economy. The cash shop items only gets traded in the cash shop
      I think a LOT of people are happy that they can get the chash shop items with in game money.
    3. Better balance the drop rates for mats required for crafting if a player is qualified for crafting
      ?? It's easy to farm the mats for craft, so I'm not sure what you mean.
    4. Drop rate for mob is fixed for per individual unit (eg toon or squad) not on how many individual units are hunting the same mob due to the coincidence of having the same quest at the same time.
      ...
    5. Make higher level items that are shown to be in game obtainable in the game (gems, reputation, etc) and not dependant on how much real money is spent.
      Everything can be buy with in game coins. Rep can be obtain by questing, but people don't quest anymore, who blame? PWI? No it's the people that chose to power level beside quest.
    6. Make reputation better reflect achievements in the game rather than how much real money has been spent.
      ...?
    7. Oh... almost forgot. Make cash shop items actually affordable.
      You doesn't seem to know what you want.
    8. One thing to consider is a quasi subscription program whereby a user agrees to pay for a fixed amount of time and they get the same Zen they would get every month when sold at regular prices plus the equivalent in gold. That would offset the in game changes and make it worth while for people with spare cash to spend some of it to play perfect world. PWI remains free to play, but a person that does pay get bonuses. Sort of a reward for being a loyal customer.

    I'm sure that there are a bunch of other things that can be done.

    It's people them self that make the economy. PWI is a Game, it's a company and like the other companies want money, they need money to survive and continue the ''free'' game so they have the boutique, but for not make C$er have a advantage on other players they make people be able to buy golds in game with coins so people can get the boutique items even if they don't use real money.

    C$er got some rewards time to time, with the promotion of 15% bonus zen or with the points they can get mounts, pets, etc.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    b:dirty "I **** rainbows and love everyone"-Longknife b:cute
  • Nowitsawn - Heavens Tear
    Nowitsawn - Heavens Tear Posts: 4,864 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    iexze wrote: »
    Yes but the game has to generate a huge income otherwise there would be no game.

    That doesn't mean they have to ruin the economy, you know.

    The problem at hand is:

    Tokens of (Best) Luck generate huge amounts of coins out of thin air.
    There are no features that adequately remove this coin from the game.

    Things would be a lot better if these issues would be addressed.
    How? Well for starters they could remove charms from the boutique and let an NPC sell them for coins, just an example right out of the blue. All they need to do is take a very wanted item and let an NPC sell it for coins. NPC's remove coins from the game, catshops just recirculate it.

    People make up the economy, but that doesn't mean the developers can't heavily influence it.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Dragoneast - Sanctuary
    Dragoneast - Sanctuary Posts: 311 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    elieli wrote: »
    I believe that there is a lot that PWI can do to regulate the economy. Preventing economic chaos. Every government does it. PWI can do it.

    problem is, "pwi's government" isn't america, its China.... pwi in america is more like a spokesperson
    I do not need much,
    I do not have much,
    I do not miss much,
    I have love and friendship,
    To compensate for that!
    Dragoneast-rb1-soon to be 100 again- sanctuary
    Back in pwi, always returning to my first real mmo
    Started in genie patch :)
  • anwynd
    anwynd Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    Nowitsawn - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    That doesn't mean they have to ruin the economy, you know.

    The problem at hand is:

    Tokens of (Best) Luck generate huge amounts of coins out of thin air.
    There are no features that adequately remove this coin from the game.

    Things would be a lot better if these issues would be addressed.
    How? Well for starters they could remove charms from the boutique and let an NPC sell them for coins, just an example right out of the blue. All they need to do is take a very wanted item and let an NPC sell it for coins. NPC's remove coins from the game, catshops just recirculate it.

    People make up the economy, but that doesn't mean the developers can't heavily influence it.

    tht would definately remove alot of coins over time but what should the prices be
    bronze: 200,000
    silver: 500,000
    gold: 750,000
    platinum: 1,500,000
    Collector of pet eggs, armor, weapons, fashion, and mountsb:chuckle
  • elieli
    elieli Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    In reply to number 10


    Bella.

    1) They would get pots like they always did. They would buy them from the apothecary. Either gather mats, get them in drops or purchase them via cat shops or the auction house.

    2) Yes they are happy with cash shop items with in game money. But that means those items sell for 10 of millions of gold coins that can only resonably be obtained by spending a **** load of real money.

    3) Start learning level 4 when you hit level 60 or 70 or 80 or... See how easy it is.

    4) Rep that gets you enough rep to get the items is simply impossible without putting real money into the game. You cannot quest enough to get that rep. And I have quested every quest there is until the expansion. My main tune is level 88.

    Yes everything can be bought for coin. That is you can get a lvl 9 perfect garnet at 4.5 million plus.

    As an example to craft a level 11 gem from scratch, you would need 686,880,000 coins according to http://pwi-wiki.perfectworld.com/index.php/Jewel_Crafting.

    Of course you can get a lvl 11 garnet from a cat shop normally from 35,000,000 to 45,000,000. Because of the packs which people of spent what $50.00 $100.00... how many real dollars to finally get that damn unicorn. And now to get at least 1 for every piece of armor so gloves, arms , chest, head, robe, legs and boots. So that 7 * 40,000,000 (lets split the difference) which is 280,000,000. Are you kidding me???

    Oh... while we're at the luck chance of the cash shop.... Who goes to a clothing store to pick the item, and the you spin a wheel to get the color and then you're stuck with it.... Oh... unless of course you spend another gazillion gold coins.

    Yes.....you can buy everything in the game with gold coins.... However, one cannot get those gold coins by playing the game. Sufficient rep cannot be gotten by playing the game. Sufficient mats for many items cannot be got by playing the game.

    I do know what I want. I want to play PWI. But I cannot afford it.

    OK... I wanted to avoid using another game example.... World of ********. Has been around for years. Developers just came out with a new expansion. There is an much greater variety of things to do. They have many more servers to choose from. And in the long run, much to my surprise is much cheaper then PWI. They are obviously making money.

    The developers regulate the economy by making Items "Soul bound" when equipped or picked up. You have to earn either the items or the coins. Yes... you can make money in auction house with most crafted or dropped items. No cat shop BS that causes horrific lag in Arch. But just about everything is obtainable with a reasonable amount of effort. And as far as levelling is concerned. One of the hardest things to do is to not level as your list of in game achievements increase.

    The developers have effectively kept the in game economy in check and players get the items they need. Go figure. How'd they do that???? hmmm???
  • Oishii - Dreamweaver
    Oishii - Dreamweaver Posts: 243 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    I think the point is that our economy in its earlier years wasn't this ****ty. Pretty sure 1 gold used to equal 100,000 coins, not 1,000,000+
    You could get all the stuff you could get now, but everything was just cheaper because there was less coin circulating in game.

    Gold accumulates after 4-5 years of gameplay, which could of been easily fixed early on, but it was ignored. Once the tokens were thrown in to create 10mil on the spot, and now no one sells that much to NPCs anymore, there are too many coins floating around, and keeps getting worse by the day.

    Either a major coin sink has to be created, or the magic 10 mil has to be taken out. Since players like the easy way with tokens, that is probably not being taken out.
    The coin sink however has to be tastefully done and something that people use. Don't jack up skill prices or anything, or noob gear from the tailor. That won't do any good. Charms would be good, but the price would have to be so jacked up on them to be the sink hole that people may not buy them as readily.

    Its a difficult problem to solve that would of been much easier had they fixed it years ago.
  • elieli
    elieli Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    Oishii - with respect. There are 2 main problems.

    1) The fact that Zen can be turned to gold which can be turned into gold coins. This is the main source of inflation. Once a user gets 20 million gold coins. Spending a couple of million on a clothes item doesn't seem like all that much. But when its for an item that is supposed to be available from within the game, it fixes market price at those levels. If this conversion were to be eliminated, then buy and sell prices for in game items would reflect what one earns from drops and npc sales. Prices would plummet and things would get reasonable again.

    And to further the point. The items that are shown to be available in game needs to be obtainable in the game with reasonable effort. Not something that would take life times to accomplish.

    2) The whole concept of the cash shop is seriously flawed for the very same reasons. There needs to be a distinction between what is available when spending real money and what is available from playing the game. Items should be sold cheaper. Get rid of the gambling concept. Really who goes to a shop to buy a box that says TV only to get a chocolate bar and a note that says better luck next time. Prices should be reasonable. Which would encourage more people to spend some money rather than relying a few people to spend huge chunks. And you can have really cool "rare" fluff" items for those crazy enough to spend huge chunks. And you can set up trade facilities for cash shop items themselves; completely divorced from the in game economy. And.... maybe the ability to send gifts to others as well. I've run into a lot of people who for various reasons do not have sufficient income to spend any money at all in the game. But lets not forget, that besides the game play, mmorpgs are also a social experience. The more that participate the more likely there will be people spending money on the game. Computers these days are an economic and communications necessity. Games are not. So being able to send gifts to other players would be a very nice thing to be able to provide under the system that I am proposing.

    This constant influx of "capital" from outside sources into the cloisterd confines of the game functions similarly to real world economies. It makes the in game currency worthless. You simply cannot get enough of it to purchase what is required. There could of course be special types of items, but then when do you stop bending the rules.

    Maybe you are correct, charms should be available at npcs. They then could be altered so that they can be switched off and on as required.

    Something seriously needs to be done.
  • Ridelia - Momaganon
    Ridelia - Momaganon Posts: 137 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    Basicaly there is only 1 way to make the in-game gold price for cubi gold drop back to a few k in game gold - reducing the amount of in-game gold on the market.
    Mobs drops, tokens of best luck, ectasy card etc. give regular shots of money to the market while the amount of money diseapering from the market (through npcs) is not big enough to compensate it - This is what we call inflation, more money is genetated than diseapear and the prices go high.

    There are 4 ways to get the cubi gold price lower.

    1. Make the real life price of cubi lower (more people buy, more people sell - price gets lower)
    2. Reduce the amount of money people get (stop mobs from droping coins, remove tokens of best luck and ectasy cards etc. The less money people have the less money people are willing to spend - price gets lower)
    3. Make a in game coin sink. A npc selling charms sound like good idea there - people will buy charms for in game coins, they wont give the money to cashshoppers, overall amount of money on market gets lower (again here: The less money people have the less money people are willing to spend - price gets lower).
    4. Increase the price for items in cash shop. (the less people can buy for 1 cubi the less is the cubi value with in-game gold)

    Personally I like the 3rd option though 1st sound right too. - both of them will decrease nominal price of cubi-gold as well as real price.

    3rd option will not only reduce the in-game gold cubi price but will also make the cubi worth less for players since they will be able to buy charms with in-game gold without using cubi. (Example: Who is spending in-game gold to buy wardrobe or cupboard stones with cubi when they can have them cheaper with tokens?)
    1st option will make more people able to buy more cubi with their real money, it will give a flow of cubi to the in-game market. The more cubi is on market the less is the cubi price. Look what happend to cannies and raps after the NW implemention. The price of raps droped from 1,7m to 200k within 2h because losts of people got them and was willing to sell. The same would happen to cubi if its real life money price was less.

    2nd and 4rd option will only make the nominal price lower while the real price will stay same (people will still be able to buy the same amount of cash shop items as they are able to buy now, the price will be lower but the real amount of money people have will be lower too).

    PWI is at the way to the 2nd option right now, removing money value from DQs, keeping the real life money cubi price same. I don't like it.
    The mechanism of 4th option we can see everytime PWI gives and removes a promotion (check it out - last sunday evening the cubi price was 1,4kk, on monday PWI made a 50% promotion for reps and some other usefull items - cubi price jumped to 2kk, on tuesday, when the promotion finished cubi price got back to 1,4kk).


    Thats right, I finished a University with the major Economy xD
  • elieli
    elieli Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    As long as "foreign currency" (i.e. gold) keeps flooding into the market the price of everything will remain high and continue to increase. When domestic prices are not influenced by foreign concerns then prices will stabilise and will settle to real market value.
  • elieli
    elieli Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    Oh... but... real market value does not necessarily mean affordable.
  • elieli
    elieli Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    Sorry about the jagged posts. Just another thought :)

    The trick like in the real world. Is how to improve income while maintaining stable affordable prices and reliable supply.
  • Oishii - Dreamweaver
    Oishii - Dreamweaver Posts: 243 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    I understand the gold to coins, but they have always had that feature and it made no difference until things like packs were added that gave huge amounts of coin and people just kept it between players instead of it going back out of the system through some sink hole. Without packs, the price of gold would of stayed relatively the same, or slowly increased. Of course it was expected that the price of gold would go up when new fashion or sonething was released, but it would drop right back down again after it was over. 100,000 coins is easier to get rid of at an NPC then 1,000,000 is. They put packs in then never took them out, so the price never dropped back down, and then the fact that packs spit out huge amounts of coins doesnt help.

    They have actually dropped the price of things like flyers and mounts that used to cost much more. When i bought my raptor in the first year, it was $40 and then i had to also buy the spurs, which were an extra $10. The only mounts that expensive now or more are the rare ones like the serpent that are out once in a blue moon.

    You can get everything without spending a single penny on this game, its just that everything was a much more reasonable price in coin in the past. The inflation causes people like me who grind the coin or merchant it to no longer be able to purchase things with coin, and we are forced to push more gold into the game to get what we need. So that problem didnt arise until after it was already inflated.

    Im just speaking from the past experience with this game on how it normally turns out.

    Edit: Btw, they are trying to keep 1 gold at 1mil coins now, and wont be adding anything to decrease it lower than that. I know that for a fact.
  • elieli
    elieli Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    The bottom line is this...

    I should be able to get, with reasonable effort everything that is shown to be available in the game, in the game. Which include gems of every level, reputation, mats needed for manufacturing, gold coins for repairs, pots, skills and a some profit so maybe Crazy Stones become worthwhile at higher levels.

    Seeing charms available via NPC at reasonable costs would be very very nice :).

    In my opinion, I believe that it would be best for the game if the Zen and cash shop transactions be completely divorced from the in game economy with a special facility to trade those items. However as pointed out that is unlikely to happen and capping the price of Gold to lower levels is a step in the right direction, however, it isn't low enough and it is not enough to fix things.

    Once the things that are playing game become dependant on the cash shop then the game is not free to play. And in fact the way things are working right now, they are extremely expensive either in real world time and or money. It is the "necessities" that drive prices. These are the things that would keep the cost of everything reasonable. Because as others keep saying, its people that are driving the economy. And if people ignore the luxury items because they cost to much then those prices will drop also. The price of Gold would follow suite.

    The external forces such as Zen converted to Gold converted to gold coins is a big factor, but they are not the end all or be all of playing. There are exceptions such as charms, faster mounts and flyers. Everything else are "luxuries" and do not really impact the game play. They do impact the social context of the game and so will always be driving force.

    But you have to keep people in the game and that means playing it needs to be enjoyable. That means playable. And that means the things that makes the game playable must be available in the game with reasonable effort. That's what I mean by fixing the in game economy.

    Removing the the random chance from purchases would help with purchases. Which would probably drive sales in a more postive direction. Especially if the prices of items remain within the reach of most of the players.

    I miss playing Perfect World. But as things stand right now, I simply cannot afford it.

Categories