It actually is easy

XLeeu - Heavens Tear · October 2012

Over the past year or two I have seen so many posts about new people wanting to know how to make money etc

I have decided to test a theory I have and over the last 3 months this is what happened

I started a Veno and decided to do EVERY quest available to me. I ONLY used armour I got as rewards. BOUGHT NOTHING - Sorry I bought a picaxe. Thats was it.
during this time if mobs dropped better armour than what I was wearing I would swop it out and sell old armour.

In the three months I ONLY spend money on repair bills, egg hatching as well as learning skills.

EVERY single item that dropped I kept and NPC'ed.

This meant a lot of going back to town to clean inventory etc. Also I farmed evert mat and herb that I saw. Looked at catshops and sold it to them or to NPC if there was no market.

I have not used teleport once and either ran or flew where i wanted to be (slow damn 0.5 flyer hehehe ) Never bought a mount or anything.

3 month down the line and my veno is lvl 62. ( I did not play her every night as it was more a test than anything else ) What I have found is this:

LVL 62 and I have 6,251,228 coin. And that is after spending money on skills......b:pleased

I recon that with 6mil coin you can start a small marchant on high grade mats or cannies or even rep badges.

THUS - making money ingame is not EXTREMELY hard, it is however a test of patience and perseverance.

BTW - It is easier with a veno cause you dont need high lvl gears to effectively kill mobs - Your pet does that for you.

Just food for thought for the new guys : Money can be made, EASY money must be bought.b:victory

X

TempleSlave - Lost City · October 2012

So, it took you 3 months to make roughly $4 worth of coin. b:question

b:victory

StellaNova - Raging Tide · October 2012

A mystic might be able to pull it of to, got a mystic lvl 30 and my summon do most of the work, unless i'm in a hurry.

Got a low lvl Veno too, and I agree with some patience it can be done

MyMate - Dreamweaver · October 2012

Or just make a lvl 25-30-ish toon and farm Rough Fur or Hay.. It will make you "alot" of money.. Also, I found out that (at least on Heavens Tear) Grease sell for 10k each :S Make a Psy, spam starter mobs (they 1 hit them) for a couple of hours a day.. Might have to make a few of them to not get too nerfed drop rates due to lvls tho xD

Toliman - Raging Tide · October 2012

XLeeu - Heavens Tear wrote: »

...

Just food for thought for the new guys : Money can be made, EASY money must be bought.b:victory

X

I need yet 20 mln coins (have 10 mln only) for Arcane Headgear of my Wizard.

It is not fun for me work each day for about an month at least, when I know, that above Arcane Headgear is cheap in comparison with other items, that I need also for high levels.

XLeeu - Heavens Tear · October 2012

TempleSlave - Lost City wrote: »

So, it took you 3 months to make roughly $4 worth of coin. b:question

b:victory

If you actually took the time to read the ENTIRE post you would realise that :

1 - I did not play every day as this was a side project
2 - Yes it did because i wanted to show that you can make money without cash shopping - even at lower levels.
3 - You could reach lvl 62 by doing all the quests etc in about 2 weeks - 3 weeks. If it is your main char - or even second alt
3 - As stated - EASY money must be bought.

Thank you for your input though.....

X

XScootaloo - Dreamweaver · October 2012

in one month i collect enough soda bottles to buy a $20 cash card with the deposit return. and thats just picking up the occasional one from work off the ground or abandoned ones out of the break room.

KissAndKill - Dreamweaver · October 2012

XScootaloo - Dreamweaver wrote: »

in one month i collect enough soda bottles to buy a $20 cash card with the deposit return. and thats just picking up the occasional one from work off the ground or abandoned ones out of the break room.

Too bad Wisconsin (My State) doesn't have a deposit return ;D Michigan does, but I'm not driving to the UP from South-Central Wisconsin just for that.

XLeeu - Heavens Tear wrote: »

BTW - It is easier with a veno cause you dont need high lvl gears to effectively kill mobs - Your pet does that for you.

Can't solo TT easily without a Herc though. Dino pet from Morai doesn't even have as much def as Glacial. (Rhyna from Wolfstar guild told me as such, since they recently caught one, lol.)

Also, the pots 70+ on can't be bought unless your faction has a territory. This will prove very annoying at 100+ when your Lv100+ pots only drop in dungeons. Unless you buy tokens from packs from catshops for unbelievably high prices to make crab meats / etc.

If you're going a proper full HA Veno, prepare to be annoyed with that:

http://pwcalc.com/9230d5ceaf292e4c

If you're going AA/HA, please start getting money for rank gears:

http://pwcalc.com/20dc2f0b6e5ea9bc

if you go full AA, you're not playing the class right. It's not meant to be a nuking class.

dolomit · October 2012

XLeeu - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Over the past year or two I have seen so many posts about new people wanting to know how to make money etc

I have decided to test a theory I have and over the last 3 months this is what happened

I started a Veno and decided to do EVERY quest available to me. I ONLY used armour I got as rewards. BOUGHT NOTHING - Sorry I bought a picaxe. Thats was it.
during this time if mobs dropped better armour than what I was wearing I would swop it out and sell old armour.

In the three months I ONLY spend money on repair bills, egg hatching as well as learning skills.

EVERY single item that dropped I kept and NPC'ed.

This meant a lot of going back to town to clean inventory etc. Also I farmed evert mat and herb that I saw. Looked at catshops and sold it to them or to NPC if there was no market.

I have not used teleport once and either ran or flew where i wanted to be (slow damn 0.5 flyer hehehe ) Never bought a mount or anything.

3 month down the line and my veno is lvl 62. ( I did not play her every night as it was more a test than anything else ) What I have found is this:

LVL 62 and I have 6,251,228 coin. And that is after spending money on skills......b:pleased

I recon that with 6mil coin you can start a small marchant on high grade mats or cannies or even rep badges.

THUS - making money ingame is not EXTREMELY hard, it is however a test of patience and perseverance.

BTW - It is easier with a veno cause you dont need high lvl gears to effectively kill mobs - Your pet does that for you.

Just food for thought for the new guys : Money can be made, EASY money must be bought.b:victory

X

Your experiment is a little distorted:
a) almost 1 month was double drop - not common situation
b) you start a new char - with new reward form quest which PWI changed after reduced low DQ prices - not usefull (help) for chars, which are under lvl 100
c) what about learning pet skills? Did you spend money for them? Cause its an expensive part of veno, like high lvl gear for another chars
d) ok, veno is good solo char - but what about the others? This "way" is not possible for everyone - it much more expensive for the others - repair gear, more necessary skills, more deads means more time
e) it is a solo play - what about if you want to play with someone another - in duo for example? Quests are same, reward too, but drops a money only a half for you
f) it was only experiment - now you won't lvl veno to high lvls, but if it is you main, or you want to exp it higher, you can only sold everything - you need some mat for craft skills, mirage stones for enchancements, ... when you sell everything, you need to buy it back later.

This experiment was nice, but misleading.

StellaNova - Raging Tide · October 2012

Would you build a bm to farm like rough furs, hay, and other stuff you either need farmed to another char or to put in a catshop.

I would go with a Veno or maybe a mystic, your pet/summon kills while you heal and pick the drops

KissAndKill - Dreamweaver · October 2012

StellaNova - Raging Tide wrote: »

Would you build a bm to farm like rough furs, hay, and other stuff you either need farmed to another char or to put in a catshop.

I would go with a Veno or maybe a mystic, your pet/summon kills while you heal and pick the drops

Mystic Pets aren't as good as tanking though, unless you had a perma cragglord, which will never happen. Also, as I said above, TT really can't be solo'd well without a herc.

MANray_ - Sanctuary · October 2012

dolomit wrote: »

Your experiment is a little distorted:
a) almost 1 month was double drop - not common situation
b) you start a new char - with new reward form quest which PWI changed after reduced low DQ prices - not usefull (help) for chars, which are under lvl 100
c) what about learning pet skills? Did you spend money for them? Cause its an expensive part of veno, like high lvl gear for another chars
d) ok, veno is good solo char - but what about the others? This "way" is not possible for everyone - it much more expensive for the others - repair gear, more necessary skills, more deads means more time
e) it is a solo play - what about if you want to play with someone another - in duo for example? Quests are same, reward too, but drops a money only a half for you
f) it was only experiment - now you won't lvl veno to high lvls, but if it is you main, or you want to exp it higher, you can only sold everything - you need some mat for craft skills, mirage stones for enchancements, ... when you sell everything, you need to buy it back later.

This experiment was nice, but misleading.

THIS

You collected every mat/herb available to you without a maxed inventory or cupboard? Care to share your system on just that one?

Tye - Harshlands · October 2012

KissAndKill - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Too bad Wisconsin (My State) doesn't have a deposit return ;D Michigan does, but I'm not driving to the UP from South-Central Wisconsin just for that.

True. Although my area (western wi) has a few machines where you can throw in your cans and it spits out quarters based on weight

Linneah - Raging Tide · October 2012

...Congrats on you finding it easy to level a veno? Venos are the easiest class to level, and can just as easily get away with horrible gear, because the pet does most or all of the work. (And no, I'm not saying all venos do -- but they can.) Venos also are the least mana-intensive class, so you really don't spend much on pots.

It's pretty different for non-pet classes, or even mystics, since they're walking mana vacuums and Devil really doesn't hold aggro. And healers/tanks can't really get away with using **** gear >.>. Nor can squishy classes, really, unless you're in groups 90% of the time while questing, because if it takes ages to kill a mob, or your defense is terribly low, you're going to take a lot of damage.

Certain classes also have many, many more skills to focus on than venos do, so skill costs while leveling are much higher -- especially for clerics, since they're expected to have quite a large number of skills maxed out early on. Heavy classes that tank a lot, especially barbs, rack up some pretty insane repair bills while casually questing, whereas a veno, not getting hit at all, hardly has any repair costs.

Not to mention, you could easily make several million in a few hours of farming mats that sell for a lot, so 6mil at 62 really isn't that much. b:surrender

Annalyse - Heavens Tear · October 2012

KissAndKill - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Also, the pots 70+ on can't be bought unless your faction has a territory. This will prove very annoying at 100+ when your Lv100+ pots only drop in dungeons. Unless you buy tokens from packs from catshops for unbelievably high prices to make crab meats / etc.

Or just do divine quests. All I use on my veno are free pots from divine orders. The level 90 pots are quite nice. As far as mana pots go, it is actually cheaper to make herb yuanxiao and sell the potions you get as drops.

If you're going a proper full HA Veno, prepare to be annoyed with that:

http://pwcalc.com/9230d5ceaf292e4c

If you're going AA/HA, please start getting money for rank gears:

http://pwcalc.com/20dc2f0b6e5ea9bc

if you go full AA, you're not playing the class right. It's not meant to be a nuking class.

And who are you to say how the class is meant to be played? If we are going to go that route, then really the class *was* meant to be AA. The pets were meant to be the tanks so they didn't need heavy gear to survive. Also, you don't need rank gears to play a veno. Mine does just fine without.

As to your links, not everyone has to get the best gear out there. I have a HA veno friend that does just fine in Morai gear, which is affordable.

KissAndKill - Dreamweaver · October 2012

Annalyse - Heavens Tear wrote: »

And who are you to say how the class is meant to be played? If we are going to go that route, then really the class *was* meant to be AA. The pets were meant to be the tanks so they didn't need heavy gear to survive. Also, you don't need rank gears to play a veno. Mine does just fine without.

So you nuke and take aggro from your pet a lot? :P

tripletriad · October 2012

I play my sin up to 59 in a cash free way, I only got about 1 million coins left after learning new skills from culti 59..
The reason that I didn't get as much coins as yours is that I'm a sin, and that sin is my main..
A sin needs more operational cost than a veno. I need more repair cost, I must keep gears and skills up to date..
Not to mention that I want my main to have the manufacturing skills up to date, so I didn't sell the precious mats as rough fur and concentrated glue..

Then I decided to cash and make separate account for merchanting cash shop items.. basically just selling cash shop items with a slight mark-up, choosing the right spot to open my shop, and keep the money alive by buying gold and restocking my shop.. start out with only 20 Gold, and now the items in my shop worth more than 50 Gold.. It's not that fast, slowly but sure the capitals will grow b:laugh

XScootaloo - Dreamweaver · October 2012

KissAndKill - Dreamweaver wrote: »

;D Michigan does, but I'm not driving to the UP from South-Central Wisconsin just for that.

theres no need to drive all the way up to the u.p. just past the indiana state line would be far enough.... if any of the soda bottle return machines would take your out of state non-deposit bottles.

MagicEmpress - Lost City · October 2012

XLeeu - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Over the past year or two I have seen so many posts about new people wanting to know how to make money etc

I have decided to test a theory I have and over the last 3 months this is what happened

I started a Veno and decided to do EVERY quest available to me. I ONLY used armour I got as rewards. BOUGHT NOTHING - Sorry I bought a picaxe. Thats was it.
during this time if mobs dropped better armour than what I was wearing I would swop it out and sell old armour.

In the three months I ONLY spend money on repair bills, egg hatching as well as learning skills.

EVERY single item that dropped I kept and NPC'ed.

This meant a lot of going back to town to clean inventory etc. Also I farmed evert mat and herb that I saw. Looked at catshops and sold it to them or to NPC if there was no market.

I have not used teleport once and either ran or flew where i wanted to be (slow damn 0.5 flyer hehehe ) Never bought a mount or anything.

3 month down the line and my veno is lvl 62. ( I did not play her every night as it was more a test than anything else ) What I have found is this:

LVL 62 and I have 6,251,228 coin. And that is after spending money on skills......b:pleased

I recon that with 6mil coin you can start a small marchant on high grade mats or cannies or even rep badges.

THUS - making money ingame is not EXTREMELY hard, it is however a test of patience and perseverance.

BTW - It is easier with a veno cause you dont need high lvl gears to effectively kill mobs - Your pet does that for you.

Just food for thought for the new guys : Money can be made, EASY money must be bought.b:victory

X

Veno's have no repairs bills to speak of. Try a barb.
b:bye

shotwhointhewhat · October 2012

Not really hard to make a little cash though. It is the thought of making 3 billion coins that generally turns players off to the game.

truekossy · October 2012

All this shows is you can get coin by being massively undergeared, cheap on skills, and staying behind the curve as long as you aren't the one taking damage or dealing damage.

For literally any other class this wouldn't work... and considering what you sacrificed to get a paltry 6m, it's not even worth what you lose in the process.

StellaNova - Raging Tide · October 2012

Mystic Pets aren't as good as tanking though, unless you had a perma cragglord, which will never happen. Also, as I said above, TT really can't be solo'd well without a herc.

Depends on wich mobs u choose, and solo TT, these days looking around the forum and in game it seems to me that is what high lvl bms and sins do, more than Venos

MANray_ - Sanctuary · October 2012

tripletriad wrote: »

that I didn't get as much coins as yours is that I'm a sin, and that sin is my main..
A sin needs more operational cost than a veno. I need more repair cost, I must keep gears and skills up to date..

This is bull. Even conceding higher operational costs you can't even begin to compare the return on investment you get with a sin. Soloing FCC to sell the xp room and facerolling TT are just the begining. Oh, and it's the one class that can afford to PK investing on wep only since all you'll be doing is gank from stealth anyway...

Seriously, as much as I disagree with the OP, Sin is the one class thats gotta eat a lot of crow before accusing anyone else of having it "easy"...

KissAndKill - Dreamweaver · October 2012

StellaNova - Raging Tide wrote: »

Depends on wich mobs u choose, and solo TT, these days looking around the forum and in game it seems to me that is what high lvl bms and sins do, more than Venos

Most of them have a second account with a cleric on it. I know one in our Wolfstar guild that solos TTs, but can't do it without a cleric.

StellaNova - Raging Tide · October 2012

a cleric backup could very well be used on most of the cases...

but if it's all about the coins used to do like solo TT, you got to solo alot as a Herc ain't cheap, seen a few at 100 mill on RT, but most is 120 mill or more. but it also depends on wich lvl you think a bm should be to solo and more important wich gear. Know the high lvl claws can be more expensive than a Herc.

About the Mystic/Summon situation, can't judge it on higher lvls, as my mystic isn't up there yet, but havn't had trouble on my way to my current lvl.

Fail_BM - Raging Tide · October 2012

Since when is 3 months grinding something easy? Grinding is not even effective on this game anymore.

truekossy · October 2012

MANray_ - Sanctuary wrote: »

This is bull. Even conceding higher operational costs you can't even begin to compare the return on investment you get with a sin. Soloing FCC to sell the xp room and facerolling TT are just the begining. Oh, and it's the one class that can afford to PK investing on wep only since all you'll be doing is gank from stealth anyway...

Seriously, as much as I disagree with the OP, Sin is the one class thats gotta eat a lot of crow before accusing anyone else of having it "easy"...

What the person said is completely true for the lower levels this topic applies to, though.

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands · October 2012

some people are just not patient anymore.

VenusArmani - Dreamweaver · October 2012

So in 3 months they can..barely afford to update all their skills and get a set of tt70 armor+shards+and +3 refines. Not to mention they can't have any cosmetic items with that much. b:surrender

MANray_ - Sanctuary · October 2012

truekossy wrote: »

What the person said is completely true for the lower levels this topic applies to, though.

No, it isn't. I was making a point about RETURN ON INVESTMENT (which is certainly legitimate when discussing lower levels) but let's get on with splitting hairs.

The post I was responding to implied Venos need not invest on skills/gears and this is nothing but bs. Even if you're a pet cleric type you still need to invest on hp/mp recovery, pet heal and 3-4 scarabs to get by. And if you're not incompetent there are other considerations such as amp or bramble. It adds up and this is not counting pet skills. Gear? Yes, you can get by on even npc gear, but this is certainly going to hurt you and veno is not the only class capable of pulling this off. You do have to invest on a tome however (and this is for gameplay/sanity reasons) which can be quite a daunting task for a lowbie first timer. And let's leave out the enormous pressure that even today is put on venos since day one when it comes to acquiring legendary pets.

Venos cannot efficiently grind or solo without substantial investment on skills, fact, and plenty make costly early mistakes on this regard they also have to deal with. And the fact is that even if we get an easier time with gears there are other demands (such as keeping pets up to level) which require as heavy an investment in terms of time. Now, you can level a sin to 7x within a week (doing this with veno means you'll still have to do it all over for your pets) have the advantage of being able to stealth out of trouble (pet goes down and you're going to be missing not investing on gears) and make back anything you invested along the way FAST, because whatever "unfair" advantages venos may have seemed to possess over other classes, this comes at the cost of a lot of time consuming grinding/soloing. Yes, im putting an emphasys on time here, which is the absolute most valuable of all resources in an MMO. Sins, even at lower levels, are pretty good at soloing and can handle themselves while doing efficient work. So yes, I take it as adding insult to injury that players in this class qq about the "advantages" of playing veno.

truekossy · October 2012

MANray_ - Sanctuary wrote: »

No, it isn't. I was making a point about RETURN ON INVESTMENT (which is certainly legitimate when discussing lower levels) but let's get on with splitting hairs.

The post I was responding to implied Venos need not invest on skills/gears and this is nothing but bs. Even if you're a pet cleric type you still need to invest on hp/mp recovery, pet heal and 3-4 scarabs to get by. And if you're not incompetent there are other considerations such as amp or bramble. It adds up and this is not counting pet skills. Gear? Yes, you can get by on even npc gear, but this is certainly going to hurt you and veno is not the only class capable of pulling this off. You do have to invest on a tome however (and this is for gameplay/sanity reasons) which can be quite a daunting task for a lowbie first timer. And let's leave out the enormous pressure that even today is put on venos since day one when it comes to acquiring legendary pets.

Venos cannot efficiently grind or solo without substantial investment on skills, fact, and plenty make costly early mistakes on this regard they also have to deal with. And the fact is that even if we get an easier time with gears there are other demands (such as keeping pets up to level) which require as heavy an investment in terms of time. Now, you can level a sin to 7x within a week (doing this with veno means you'll still have to do it all over for your pets) have the advantage of being able to stealth out of trouble (pet goes down and you're going to be missing not investing on gears) and make back anything you invested along the way FAST, because whatever "unfair" advantages venos may have seemed to possess over other classes, this comes at the cost of a lot of time consuming grinding/soloing. Yes, im putting an emphasys on time here, which is the absolute most valuable of all resources in an MMO. Sins, even at lower levels, are pretty good at soloing and can handle themselves while doing efficient work. So yes, I take it as adding insult to injury that players in this class qq about the "advantages" of playing veno.

And yet... what OP did is the exact opposite of efficient. Your statement about solo ability is false as it's also much easier for a veno to heal a tank pet than an assassin to solo with the same resource investment at that point in time. You do not need to invest in more than heal and a NPC weapon to be a **** veno that can still get by. Meanwhile, even a **** sin will need semi-decent armor, weapons, and skills to survive at the lower levels or they will simply die. You don't need a tome as water from the pet manager is beyond cheap and legendary pets are actually looked at less nowadays, not that they're even relevant to this topic.

If this were a thread that wasn't about the horribly bad way of doing things OP mentioned, sure. I'd gladly agree that n up-to-date veno and sin early on are similar but Sin gives greater benefits later. However, that's not the case.

... And really pet levels are nonfactor if you're doing your quests and don't have a large deal of pets. I had a maxed pet bag on my veno since level 1 and had it filled by my 30s. Yet the only pet that concerned me prior to the massive jump at higher levels was my turtle. And this was without using room 4 for fast and easy pet levels.

It actually is easy

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