Is this considered a scam?

SoulRequiem - Sanctuary
SoulRequiem - Sanctuary Posts: 403 Arc User
edited October 2012 in General Discussion
Hello all

There's a catshop in Sanctuary that buys cannies/raptures for 286 / 1.280 when the normal prices are around 280k and 1,25M.

Yes you did read right,286 NOT 286k he literally buys cannies for 286 coins and raps for a lil more than 1k coins.
He's obviously trying to bait some idiot to sell his Nirvana drops for a price that's apparently very good while its in fact very close to nothing.

Now,its catshop states " buy 286 / 1.280 " he didn't wrote "k" so APPARENTLY he's being honest and not liyng while in the other hand he's obviously trying to make people fell into it.

Would you consider it a scam?,if you were a GM would you ban him?
Post edited by SoulRequiem - Sanctuary on
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Comments

  • Sirrobert - Dreamweaver
    Sirrobert - Dreamweaver Posts: 3,395 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    That's clearly a scam trying to pray on those that are tired from a full day of nirvana.
    Most people just look at the first few numbers, and the comma for raptures. All those are there.

    If you don't pay attention and double check, you could probably easely fall for it
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  • XShui - Lost City
    XShui - Lost City Posts: 196 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    I always look carefuly when buying/selling and cannies/raps there.
  • BerserkBeast - Sanctuary
    BerserkBeast - Sanctuary Posts: 1,417 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    If anyone fell for it, he is a idiot.

    That aside, from a technical point of view its not forbidden to buy anything for a very low price, he's not states on his shop "k" or "m" so he's not lying about the price.

    Oh and if I was in a squad were the banker trashed all the squad's efforts on that shop I would blacklist him and never run with such **** again.
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  • Xainou - Sanctuary
    Xainou - Sanctuary Posts: 5,369 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    Imo it is and that person should be banned.

    Sure, he isn't advertising a wrong price. Yet he's tricking people and hoping they fall for him.
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  • Reliea - Sanctuary
    Reliea - Sanctuary Posts: 685 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    Scam yes, in one sense. But not in the important -could get you banned- kind of scam. Technically he's not even being untruthful since he is advertising the prices he's buying/selling for evidently (with the absence of -k-, it's an important detail!), but he is being deceptive when the general standard for advertising buying/selling prices is considered.

    If I was a GM, I'd ban him, because I know that his intent is dishonest, and jackazzery doesn't get light treatment in my world b:angry. However by the rules I don't believe this would constitute a ban, since if I recall the standard for scamming is something like, advertising one thing for one price, but replacing with something else... or some other complicated reason that no one really understands because there's so much gray area that it could mean anything and just equals nothing ever being done about anything, ever.

    In conclusion always check before you sell/buy anything to make sure it's really the thing you want to buy/sell and the price is what it should be.
  • BerserkBeast - Sanctuary
    BerserkBeast - Sanctuary Posts: 1,417 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    I saw that shop being on for more than a week, Im pretty sure he got already some tickets against him, yet he's still there.
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  • truekossy
    truekossy Posts: 7,021 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    Not really a scam. Especially with color coded coin. I can setup a shop buying tokens for 1 coin each but if I don't give a false price and you're stupid enough to sell to me, that's on you.
  • Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973
    Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973 Posts: 7,881 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    Most people who defend this sort of action say it is allowed since he's technically not lying. It is a ridiculous position since you don't have to be lying to be deceptive.
    EBay has similar issues with sellers such as peopel trying to sell empty XBox 360 boxes for hundreds of dollars. Those scam sellers get banned though.
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  • Haila - Sanctuary
    Haila - Sanctuary Posts: 467 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    Maybe the cat's main is using the shop to scam his squadmembers by saying he sold uncs and raps to the scamshop b:surrender
  • Jeremied - Sanctuary
    Jeremied - Sanctuary Posts: 2,259 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    I'd probably consider it a scam, seeing as he is intending to buy/sell things for much much cheaper than his competition but making it seem like he has better prices. Sneaky in the fact that he's not lying about his prices in his shop title, just his intentions.

    If I were a GM, I would most likely kick him for being an idiot.
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  • Valirah - Sanctuary
    Valirah - Sanctuary Posts: 522 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    If anyone fell for it, he is a idiot.

    That aside, from a technical point of view its not forbidden to buy anything for a very low price, he's not states on his shop "k" or "m" so he's not lying about the price.

    Oh and if I was in a squad were the banker trashed all the squad's efforts on that shop I would blacklist him and never run with such **** again.



    Ah, I guess you must be one of those people who's never ever been caught off guard after a long day of drudgery. The only idiot here is you, who thinks himself unable to make such an error. The scam (and it is a scam) works by catching a handful of people at just the right moment when their attention isn't at 100%.


    Happened to my squad a week ago, lost 3 Raps. I realized immediately what happened when the banker wrote "oh no!" just after posting the high price she found. We gave her some ribbing, and will continue to do so from time to time, but I'm not about to abandon someone for a careless mistake that cost me a paltry 600k.
  • BerserkBeast - Sanctuary
    BerserkBeast - Sanctuary Posts: 1,417 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    Ah, I guess you must be one of those people who's never ever been caught off guard after a long day of drudgery. The only idiot here is you, who thinks himself unable to make such an error. The scam (and it is a scam) works by catching a handful of people at just the right moment when their attention isn't at 100%.


    Happened to my squad a week ago, lost 3 Raps. I realized immediately what happened when the banker wrote "oh no!" just after posting the high price she found. We gave her some ribbing, and will continue to do so from time to time, but I'm not about to abandon someone for a careless mistake that cost me a paltry 600k.

    Not just your 600k but other 4 people's 600k, thats 600x4 = 2,4M other than yours.

    People are free to make mistakes all they want and Im free to not run with em again, it works like that, its a free country.

    Its like those people who have a car accident because they drive when they're tired, if you're too tired or drunk or sleepy or whatever you should be smart enough not to drive,sleep in your car instead, but don't risk your life just for a warm bed. b:bye
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  • SinfuINature - Harshlands
    SinfuINature - Harshlands Posts: 533 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    i wish i knew who these type of ppl were so i could beat them to death... i just cant stand ppl like that... take the game out of it... its just the mentality of those type of ppl make me sick b:angry
  • OIdpop - Heavens Tear
    OIdpop - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,052 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    read before you buy,could be a typo,also if the person wants to buy the canny for 250 coins each then thats how much he wants to spend then.


    bout a year ago i got lucky from some ones catshop selling canny for 520 coins each so i bought all 52 canny lol

    and people like you that want to beat some one due to a game needs a mental evaluation.
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  • tweakz
    tweakz Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    I agree; check into mental facility and get lithium drip.
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  • Cathulion - Dreamweaver
    Cathulion - Dreamweaver Posts: 235 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    I always say "Find best prices for cannies/raps" to my squad when we split and see how many extras we have. This way were never scammed since were all looking at prices.
  • Valirah - Sanctuary
    Valirah - Sanctuary Posts: 522 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    read before you buy,could be a typo,also if the person wants to buy the canny for 250 coins each then thats how much he wants to spend then.

    It's not a typo, its a scam, plain and simple. That guy has been there for most of this x2, prices changing to look like the best deal at the time. Just because he's not technically lying doesn't make it any less deceptive and wrong.

    Love how these threads always bring out the geniuses who could never fall for such ploys to side with the scammer and deride the victim for being "stupid". Even if it was the case that only the weak minded could fall prey, how does that make it any less wrong? Abusing the less fortunate, what a lovely business model.
  • KingCrash - Dreamweaver
    KingCrash - Dreamweaver Posts: 702 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    Reminds me about all the advertising of the faction wars. Now that was false advertising.
  • tweakz
    tweakz Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    ebay is a bad example. They allow buyers to bully their sellers. I was about to quit my job and sell full time on ebay until someone sniped 3 of my auctions and demanded a discount on shipping with a threat of bad feedback if I didn't. They violated 3 terms of the auction that I laid out clearly. I forwarded the messages to ebay, and told the buyer I would not sell to them. It said clearly in auction details that no multi-auction shipping deals would be made after the auction closes. The guy sent payment via paypal despite me telling them I cancelled. Not only did ebay allow his bad feedback on all 3 auctions; it also tried to charge me a reimbursement fee (they own paypal). They let him kill my 3 auctions, damage my feedback rating x 3, and would have cost me money if I'd stuck around. -**** ebay!
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  • crystalpink
    crystalpink Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    I consider that case as a mild scam attempt because the players can actually avoid to get tricked if they pay attention to the details.


    The real scam is the one where players already double check everything/make sure everything is correct before buying, but they still get lemons just because the sellers are utilizing some kind of bugs or glitches or third-party program to mess up the transaction. In other words, the scam is unavoidable. This kind of scamming happened to some players on other MMORPGs.


    If I were a GM, I would give that person a warning or a temporary suspension. If that person keeps doing the same malpractices after a few warnings and/or temporary suspensions, I would have to hammer him/her with a permanent ban.


    The scammers who deserve a permanent ban instantly are the ones who utilize bugs/glitches/third-party programs to scam other players.
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  • truekossy
    truekossy Posts: 7,021 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    Is this a move worthy of a ***** and should be punished? Yes. Is it something that's a true scam and makes a real attempt to deceive large amounts of people? Not really.
  • mogwai
    mogwai Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    and while we're at it why not ban all the "donations" shops, buying herbs, emblems, mirages, etc for 1 coin each MY GOD MAN!
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  • VenusArmani - Dreamweaver
    VenusArmani - Dreamweaver Posts: 6,009 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    mogwai wrote: »
    and while we're at it why not ban all the "donations" shops, buying herbs, emblems, mirages, etc for 1 coin each MY GOD MAN!

    Those aren't scams. Those are pretty clear that you're just donating to the faction. IT's meant for faction members to get things like bases.
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  • Licancura - Archosaur
    Licancura - Archosaur Posts: 135 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    Those aren't scams. Those are pretty clear that you're just donating to the faction. IT's meant for faction members to get things like bases.

    Ive read complains from people new to the game that didnt understand the concept, and thought they were getting something by donating. And, in all these years, Ive seen a fair share of catshopt that accept personal donations, clearly stating so.

    So, who decides what's a scam and what's not? Just because someone understand a selling/buying prize is weird, it doesnt mean is not a scam.

    Which I believe is clearly a scam, is selling a sadness card for 1million coins but, I may be wrong since Ive seen many catshops buying sadness cards. I'm tempted to sell mines.
  • VenusArmani - Dreamweaver
    VenusArmani - Dreamweaver Posts: 6,009 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    Ive read complains from people new to the game that didnt understand the concept, and thought they were getting something by donating. And, in all these years, Ive seen a fair share of catshopt that accept personal donations, clearly stating so.

    So, who decides what's a scam and what's not? Just because someone understand a selling/buying prize is weird, it doesnt mean is not a scam.

    Which I believe is clearly a scam, is selling a sadness card for 1million coins but, I may be wrong since Ive seen many catshops buying sadness cards. I'm tempted to sell mines.


    A scam is when someone uses fraud or deception to gain something. A seller cannot know what everyone is thinking and how they understand the world. Just because someone is under the bizzare impression that they every last donation in the world means they will get something for donating, doesn't mean they were scammed out of their money for selling to a donation shop. Neither are personal donations scams, since the person clearly is telling you that what you are giving them is a donation. A donation is a gift. Gifts are clearly things you give people for free. Anyone expecting all donations to give them something in return, don't have a very good grasp of how donations work. That isn't anyone else's fault but their own.

    Just because you don't like a purchase you made, it doesn't mean you were scammed out of your money. You have a responsibility to understand what you are purchasing.

    However, here are some common practices that are scams:

    1) Opening up more than two clients to give people the false impression that your prices are the best in town. You're using deception (by putting up a bunch of cat shops) to make it seem like an item is one price, when it's actually another.

    2) Pretending an item is a different item.

    3)Using an alt to pretend to you're someone you're not in order to convince someone to part with an item. You're using fraud to get an item, so yes you're scamming someone.

    4) Pretending to buy for one price when you're buying for a much lower price

    5) Telling someone that an item is worth less than it is so that you can get the item for cheaper

    Some things that are not scams, but people think they are just because they don't like it.

    1) Offering to buy something from someone for a low price

    2) Selling an item for a high price

    3) Accepting donations.

    4) Offering to pay the fee for entry into an instance, in order to keep all the drops to yourself

    5) Selling someone an item that doesn't work as good as they had hoped. I've seen some people consider packs a scam for example. They aren't. They are gambling items, and it's not PWI's fault that you don't bother to read the easily available information about the item.

    The key thing about scams and frauds is the use of deception. If there is no attempt to deceive someone in order to get their stuff, there is no scam.
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  • Ois - Lost City
    Ois - Lost City Posts: 391 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    Most people who defend this sort of action say it is allowed since he's technically not lying. It is a ridiculous position since you don't have to be lying to be deceptive.
    EBay has similar issues with sellers such as peopel trying to sell empty XBox 360 boxes for hundreds of dollars. Those scam sellers get banned though.

    I have been in factions where the "Faction Bank" character sets up shop to buy items for 1 coin. The items are worth more than 1 coin. Is that a scam?

    The value of your item is determined by the buyer. The guy offers to buy your uncannies for 300 coins...you don't have to accept his offer.
  • Tawarwaith - Sanctuary
    Tawarwaith - Sanctuary Posts: 391 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    Now,its catshop states " buy 286 / 1.280 " he didn't wrote "k" so APPARENTLY he's being honest and not liyng while in the other hand he's obviously trying to make people fell into it.

    Would you consider it a scam?,if you were a GM would you ban him?

    Technically, it isn't a scam since he's not lying. So no, it isn't scam, which is an over used word in this game and it's forums.

    However, that doesn't mean it's legal (with all precautions to this word as it's a game based on an international community), and even less moral, to do that. It is a form of abuse and trickery. It should be banned, and it's easy to justify a ban really. He/she is obviously trying to mislead the sellers, abuse their rush that is created naturally by 2x and abuse the situation of a zillion catshops at the same spot also due to 2x.

    GMs should use the ignorance off those immoral players to their advantage. Those players only know the word "scam" and totally ignore that there is more juridictional vocabulary in that part of law. Ban them directly !
  • Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973
    Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973 Posts: 7,881 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    Technically, it isn't a scam since he's not lying. So no, it isn't scam, which is an over used word in this game and it's forums.

    However, that doesn't mean it's legal (with all precautions to this word as it's a game based on an international community), and even less moral, to do that. It is a form of abuse and trickery. It should be banned, and it's easy to justify a ban really. He/she is obviously trying to mislead the sellers, abuse their rush that is created naturally by 2x and abuse the situation of a zillion catshops at the same spot also due to 2x.

    GMs should use the ignorance off those immoral players to their advantage. Those players only know the word "scam" and totally ignore that there is more juridictional vocabulary in that part of law. Ban them directly !

    Lying is not a requirement for it to be a scam. You just have to be deceptive / misleading. So yes it is a scam.
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  • Tawarwaith - Sanctuary
    Tawarwaith - Sanctuary Posts: 391 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    Lying is not a requirement for it to be a scam. You just have to be deceptive / misleading. So yes it is a scam.

    Then I'll be more specific, here it wouldn't be a scam as a scam in the litteral translation refers to an infraction of lying/misleading on the componants of the transaction, which isn't the case here.

    In the presented case, the misleading lies on the emplacement and time of the shop, not the items offered, their price or the the title of the shop. If that shop were situated in any other place without 2x, nobody would find it misleading. It would be called a rip-off maybe, which isn't an infraction unless it concerns specific categories.

    Idk what you refer too, maybe other countries have more open legal infraction definitions but I honestly doubt that as the distinction between misleading on the situation or on the substance is very important.

    If you're refering to a dictionairy, then sure, whatever you want to call it is fine with me.
  • Jaabg - Sanctuary
    Jaabg - Sanctuary Posts: 2,256 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    bout a year ago i got lucky from some ones catshop selling canny for 520 coins each so i bought all 52 canny lol

    If a seller is selling canny for 520 is not a scam? (not directed at OIdpop), but if the buyer buys at 520 it starts turning into a scam?

    Often times a seller will have packs, orbs, tt mats other items which are mispriced and are missing 1~2 zero, making something worth 100m, be worth 1m~10m. If someone buys it, everyone things awesome deal, no on stops to say, i just scammed that person. The powers to be forbid that we point a finger at ourselves. I have made 200m so far like that b:victory.

    If a seller is buying an item at regular price, but selling that item with 1~3 extra zero, it becomes a scam? (tokens, teles, charms).

    My friend and I were walking around arch, she picked up 30 fungus. She saw a shop buying for 3 coins each, she sold it to that shop, did we get scammed, knowing the price was 3 coins?

    People setting up shops to buy items, but you can't sell them items, just so they can raise the market price for buying things, is that a scam? That one is b:chuckle, had the shop been able to buy at higher price, awesome, but setting up shop so you can't buy at that high price, that is not cool.

    Charm prices going from 3m~8m, is that a scam by charm sellers? MP charms going from 750k to 5m, is that a scam?

    Deviating from the normal pricing should not be considered a scam, most people who do vana, know about that seller, i don't even click on that shop anymore. If someone is really tired after a hard few hours of vana. Don't sell the mats, keep the mats and do it when more alert. Best case the banker has 5 raps and 5 canny to sell, often the selling share is smaller.

    I wouldn't consider it a scam, but it is distasteful. The faction donation falls under similar rules for me. Sure people can donate, don't pay them 1 coin for it take it for free. If there is going to be payment, make it fair value and don't call it a donation.
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