How would you describe differences between 5aps sins and BMs ....

BM's can do more than APS noob things, while sins can't

Ofcourse, you'd need some braincells to see that, so most people think BM's can only APS. (yes, I'm making fun of the OP, incase you missed it)

Than why do you ask, if you already know the answer?

hes probly one of the superduper pro bms fisting singlemobs in Seat,warsong etc. b:chuckle

AXELSCHWEISS - Sanctuary wrote: »

hes probly one of the superduper pro bms fisting singlemobs in Seat,warsong etc. b:chuckle

Sirrobert - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Meh that's for noobs, the real superduper pro BM's use fists only in delta

Don't forget lunar b:victory.

To the OP, people are making fun of your post, but here is the difference, since i have started playing both classes.

When things hit the fan, the bm will be standing there, the sin will be dead in most cases. Stealthing is not a solution to things when they go wrong. I'll give different examples

Warsong - I'll say it up front, i know archers, who use claws on mobs because they don't want agro b:shocked, and they use claws on bm to for same reason. A g16 claw auto attack for me is the same as using skills on my axe. My claws only have 2~3 aoes, my axes has endless aoe cycle coupled with claws. That means i will take agro on some mobs, i would have hfed, gsed (i have yet to see sins use sub sea in warsong on mobs regularly), and i would be aoeing away. Yes, i might have agro, but because i am hitting 3~6 mobs, the bp returns make up for it. If i auto attack non sparked, i might run into trouble. Sins usually always have to spark to tank the dinos even with bb up, simple auto attacking tends to get them killed (my sin dies), but my bm can.

Things to note from above, we have debuff amp skills, which we use regularly, that sins often choose not to use. I know some are awesome team players, but most just hit triple spark, dd, all the way. We use aoes, sins only get 2 aoe (maybe 3), but most don't know how to use it. Heaven's forbid that earthen rift be lvled.

Lunar - same as warsong, but more likely to have agro since mobs have much higher hp, and our aoe will cause us to get agro usually, unless you have nice casters or archers/seekers. A bm can pull safely in lunar, i have yet to see sins, even with more hp and more mdef than me, attempt pulls. As a bm, i know at least which mobs in which bh is magic, melee or a magic opener. That allows me to use marrows. That pushes a 5.5k mdef to 10k. Pdef goes to 17~19k for me when marrowed. Mobs can be stunned in lunar, often time if someone squishy has agro and taking damage, we can aoe stun immediately, to save them. Those 4~6 seconds the mob is stunned, bb kicks in and their hp goes back up.

Things to learn from lunar - use of stun, using marrows to pull, using aoe skills to time with the squad for quick death of mobs.

Delta - Need i mention anything about delta? I use claws on the last few mobs to kill them quicker and build back my chi, only if there is time. If there a few mobs left, i will continue with aoe, hf, gs, stuns, and risk little chi for next wave. Sins don't have that issue. Even here, most still don't like to use Subsea and earthen rift. Sparking and killing is fine, but in the start use sub sea with hf, gs, things die much faster with the barb's arma. Same as lunar, stun, aoe, stun, amp, debuff, and use all weapons b:shocked. I mostly use atmos strike here because meteor rush is in cool down. MSS rarely comes into use, only when bb drops and people are taking damage, or a boss is being mean, and the tank is having issues with hp.

New things - timing of all skills, and using different trees for different situations at a moments notice, because the game is fun.

You referred to the fact sins can stealth through things. There are only 3 isntances where stealth comes in handy, but those are not money making instances. FCC, aba, sot. TT, stealth running is not any faster than non stealthed running due to mob kill count present in tt. For lower lvl tt, if you know the mob type, use the marrow and run through, no issue.

BM require bp, that is a yes and know. BP is nice, but not necessary. If the bm is not tanking, bp is not needed, healing will take care of it. If bm is tanking, the cleric will take care of you, trust them to do their job b:surrender. If they make mistakes, tell them what to change, or how you prefer things and figure out the details. BP just makes things easier.

DPS wise, with g16 coming out, sins do not have the highest dps coming out with their g13+10 or g15 zerk int +7~+10. A g16 claw, pure str build, tend to out dd them often.

For me a sin is useless, even in pvp, tw has exciting applications for a sin, but that requires full r9 gear. Stealthing into enemy base and causing squad wipes when other squad are rebuffing is a major gain for a sin. As for 1vs1, if stealthing, double sparking and killing someone floats your boat, so be it. BMs have awesome stun locking abilities, they can keep people perma stun locked if they don't have the requisite genie skills. They might have issues killing them due to using bad axes, but perma stun lock = charm going poof.

BM = 4 weapons, aoe, stuns, amps, debuffs, tank, support dd AND 5 aps.

Sins = 1 weapon, lacking aoe, single target stuns with long cool downs, amp (sub sea), no debuffs (unless you count rib strike), tank (only if gear is OP, otherwise a nuisance as they are squishy and die when they get agro), most people don't know what a support dd is AND 5 aps.

Each class shines when played well, but the things is most people roll sins to farm, not to play well. BMs are also rolled to farm, but there appears to be a bigger majority of us that learn to play the class compared to sin numbers, in my mind.

What other people said is the short version, BM = more than a simple 5 aps, aoe ape. A bm can be played like a sin, but for me that loses all allure of playing a bm.

Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »

G16 +10 BM, unsharded: 205,385 dps
G15 +10 Sin, unsharded: 211,832 dps
G13 +10 Sin, Full DoT: 211,841 dps
G15 +7 Sin, Full DoT: 213,273 dps

You were saying?

b:shocked all my friends are trolling me and making me tank bosses b:shutup. Those trolls. If they want to save repair costs, just say so, don't make me tank b:cry.

I run across issues, on numbers it seems fine, but in the game, i end up with agro, granted bosses are not living for long, but seeing my hp drop to 1/2, 1/3 is not fun.

The point is, if your weapon is +10, most people in squad have +10, bosses only drop by to say hi, things like tanking, dps, is over in 6~12 seconds, in a squad setting. I hardly do solo stuff much, so not much i can compare with.

PQ 3 boss maybe? He takes 5~15 minutes to say bye, does he do random agro? I only see his agro shift if i sparked when he is stunning me, he goes to someone else. If i let him stun me, agro stays with me. Now days, most of my friends have endgame weapons to +10 on main and alts, so agro shifts around on pq boss for us.

Only places where numbers would matter, if soloing, duoing tt, because those boss fights i presume last a bit longer. And guess who gets agro there to b:shutup. My bm is cursed. Maybe once our sin alts get dot shards, things will start to differ.

There is one thing i noticed though, sins who use power dash regularly, tend to keep agro, dragon bane cool down is too long to compete with it. I am still learning about the sin world, it simply could be the case with my friends, since i find it easier to tank bosses, without having a charm, and rarely using pots, they let me tank to save their costs.

Most of us are still heading to endgame shards, first comes refining, after that is sharding. Jumbled thoughts, sorry about that b:surrender.

zyph512 wrote: »

Can somebody pls explain why I'm told sins are a lot more expensive to make than BMs. Why is expensive to make 5aps sin than 5aps BM. How much difference are we talking anyway, 15-20mill, 30-40mill, 50-60mill? etc

to begin, sins basically Need R8 to be 5.0, the alternative to this is either to be extremely lucky as hell with t3 wep or get a tome which costs enough to fully gear an aps bm and possibly sin. also, while BMs can "Make due" with deicides which only cost ~30-35m, sins pretty much have to go for atleast g13 nirvana dags which can cost between 100m-130m+ depending on rapture prices.
R8 costs between 80-100m depending on gold, lets just say 100m for now cause of 1.4-1.5m gold prices. and again lets just say 115m for 1st stage daggers, which includes raptures + the TT base gear from tt60-99. adding this just means a sin is around 200-230m more expensive to gear than a bm.

while a sin can also "Make due" with deicides its not rly recommended for several reasons, only gonna say 2 that come to mind atm, 1- they deal alot less damage than if they were to just go with at lv daggers (ex: my +7 sin can take agro from +10 bms even when they dont HF even when i dont PD) and 2 - any1 with a sane mind will probably avoid the hell out of a clawsin so for the easy aps they pretty much just lost any chance of getting into decent squads.

zyph512 wrote: »

Reason I asked about sins being best farmers, that's what everyone says basically. They can stealth through kill and get drops. Somebody in my faction was showing me skill books he was farming, stealth, kill boss get drops. My server is full of sins, so there gotta be a reason why servers are full of fish. Both BMs and sins are main aps classes yet sins by far outnumber them.

as Necare above mentioned, they are stupidly OP and alot of morons choose it as mains for w/e reasons while alot of others are ostracized from squads to the point of "needing" to make a sin to do regular farming or be forced to wait for specific times when their friends are online and at times those friends may not want to farm. some choose to make bm for slightly cheaper aps and hf while others try to take full advantage of all of sin's overpowered skills ( while theres alot who just plain make them and go aps anything that moves mindlessly)

The other place BM's lose out money wise is on Axes. Yeah, you can get cheap axes, but if you want good axes, then you're looking at G15 or G16, R8, R9, or recast rank gear.

G13 is okay, but my R8 polehammer has better DPH.

I've got a 4.0 Sage Sin, 5.0 Sage Archer, 5.0 Bm, and my Barb currently is 5.0. I've got the tome, two sets of -int gear, and R8 on almost all of my characters. I've got +10 Deicide, +10 GV, +10 G13 daggers, and some R8 gear mixed in. Sin is 'easy', but it's not competitive in TW anymore. BM is cleric/psy/mystic/wizard food, and without having good axes, it makes it a bit harder.

To the question between 5.0 Sin and 5.0 BM, Bm is more fun. I would pick my BM over my Sin to play any day. However, I'd take my archer over both of them. I like the DPS, even with just a bow (yeah, I use my R8 bow), and it seems more versatile.

Barb is fun at 5.0, but the DPS sucks. My Barb in human form APSing has 17k HP. I could switch out ornaments and have 4.0 with much better MDef and another 1,000 HP though.