Sage bm intervals
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Simoniscool - Harshlands
Posts: 14 Arc User
I have a question and this isn't a troll like everyone else been implying but whats the best gear
for interval besides lion gear and ashura gear? I currently have lionheart greaves, lionheart
vambraces. I'm currently working on getting ashura belt+necklace. Is their any way obtaining
5aps being a sage blade-master? Yes i look at the other guides but they always downplaying
sage bms.
for interval besides lion gear and ashura gear? I currently have lionheart greaves, lionheart
vambraces. I'm currently working on getting ashura belt+necklace. Is their any way obtaining
5aps being a sage blade-master? Yes i look at the other guides but they always downplaying
sage bms.
Post edited by Simoniscool - Harshlands on
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Comments
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They're not downplaying sage bms. They're just stating you'll have weaker damage, shorter HF, shorter stuns, less stable marrows, a bell thats less useful, and harder aps. On the plus side, sage's get a 90% bell and 50 chi after they die. That's not downplaying, just stating the pros and cons. Oh, and sages are usually forced to use a lowergrade weapon for the -.1 int on it, like Deicides, Striking Dragons, or Regicides, rather than more endgame like G15 or G16.
So if you get every standard piece of -int you'll be 4.0 base. This is 2 piece TT99 LA (I recommend these being armor, not ornaments or else you'll be squishy), 2 pieces TT99 HA, -.1 int on wristguards, -.05 pants, and a -.05 tome, and -.1 on your weapon. Fist claws have a base of .7 seconds per attack (1.43 aps) and you need to reduce that to .25 seconds per attack (4 aps), so you need a total of -.45 int.
Once you hit 4.0 base you can windshield to 5.0. Keep windshield at level 1 so you can spam it. When you windshield you will overwrite the damage reduction of sage spark but windshield will give you 6-10% damage reduction itself.
You can also try for R8 recast plate or R8 recast boots for 5.0 base. Plate has about 4.5% chance of -int (1:23) and boots have about .5% chance (1:200) and cost around 100m to make, 25m per reroll.Seven 100+ characters leveled the hard way. Free to play. Mystic, Psychic, and Wizard left to level. b:victory0 -
Don't forget sage fist/axe/blade/pole mastery is a 90% boost rather than the 75% granted by demon...another perk for you sages.0
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as demon BMs dont need to recast R8 chest(even it is usefull and great to have) sahe BM must if you want to be able to have good weapon and 4 aps and that make it a lot more exspensiv than to be demon...all depend on play stile and you budget i guess but if you look at skills demon are a lot usefull...and yes sage mastery give nice bonus but like i said cost of gear is a lot biger0
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Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »They're not downplaying sage bms. They're just stating you'll have weaker damage, shorter HF, shorter stuns, less stable marrows, a bell thats less useful, and harder aps. On the plus side, sage's get a 90% bell and 50 chi after they die. That's not downplaying, just stating the pros and cons. Oh, and sages are usually forced to use a lowergrade weapon for the -.1 int on it, like Deicides, Striking Dragons, or Regicides, rather than more endgame like G15 or G16.
So if you get every standard piece of -int you'll be 4.0 base. This is 2 piece TT99 LA (I recommend these being armor, not ornaments or else you'll be squishy), 2 pieces TT99 HA, -.1 int on wristguards, -.05 pants, and a -.05 tome, and -.1 on your weapon. Fist claws have a base of .7 seconds per attack (1.43 aps) and you need to reduce that to .25 seconds per attack (4 aps), so you need a total of -.45 int.
Once you hit 4.0 base you can windshield to 5.0. Keep windshield at level 1 so you can spam it. When you windshield you will overwrite the damage reduction of sage spark but windshield will give you 6-10% damage reduction itself.
You can also try for R8 recast plate or R8 recast boots for 5.0 base. Plate has about 4.5% chance of -int (1:23) and boots have about .5% chance (1:200) and cost around 100m to make, 25m per reroll.
Might be just my opinion but if i were a 4.0 base sage bm,i'd prefer using sage cyclone heel to get myself 5 aps for the whole spark,rather than windshield which cancels sage spark reduction and requires use of genie.0 -
Night$aber - Dreamweaver wrote: »Might be just my opinion but if i were a 4.0 base sage bm,i'd prefer using sage cyclone heel to get myself 5 aps for the whole spark,rather than windshield which cancels sage spark reduction and requires use of genie.
Sakubatou might be referring to the casting time that will take up when you are sparked, effectively reducing the time your dding while sparked. Those 2~3 seconds get added on to the spark's 2~3 seconds, where we all just stand and look pretty.
And before anyone gets the idea of having a -50% chan or higher bm, just don't b:chuckle.0 -
Can anyone explain to me why the majority of BMs get Lionheart Greaves and Vambraces and Ashura belt and necklace?
Wouldn't it be better to get Ashura Greaves and Vambraces and Lionheart belt and necklace?Once upon a time I was stuck in Hall of Deception.
The Devs felt sorry for me having to smash lowbies all day, so they decided to promote me.
I then rerolled a Psychic.0 -
It is .
Most BMs either don't realize it for some reason... or are too cheap/poor to do so.
And occasionally, you get the ones that insist the evasion ornaments are better.0 -
It is .
Most BMs either don't realize it for some reason... or are too cheap/poor to do so.
And occasionally, you get the ones that insist the evasion ornaments are better.
That's what I thought.
I don't understand why people would first get lots of evasion, it's just a bad stat, and then refine it.
Refining P.Def belt and necklace would give more defense than the difference between LA and HA wrists and boots and LA boots and wrists refine for the same HP as HA.Once upon a time I was stuck in Hall of Deception.
The Devs felt sorry for me having to smash lowbies all day, so they decided to promote me.
I then rerolled a Psychic.0 -
Sakubatou might be referring to the casting time that will take up when you are sparked, effectively reducing the time your dding while sparked. Those 2~3 seconds get added on to the spark's 2~3 seconds, where we all just stand and look pretty.
If i'm not mistaken,sage cyclone heel has a 20 seconds duration.That means you can use it before spark and still have it active the whole spark.It's true it somewhat lower the damage since you spark at longer intervals than demon bms,but isn't the point of sage getting defense from sage spark,sage bell and somewhat sage marrows?
Edit: I meant in pve.In pvp demon bell and marrows are better and depending on situation,might be on pve too.0 -
Necare - Harshlands wrote: »Can anyone explain to me why the majority of BMs get Lionheart Greaves and Vambraces and Ashura belt and necklace?
Wouldn't it be better to get Ashura Greaves and Vambraces and Lionheart belt and necklace?Necare - Harshlands wrote: »That's what I thought.
I don't understand why people would first get lots of evasion, it's just a bad stat, and then refine it.
Refining P.Def belt and necklace would give more defense than the difference between LA and HA wrists and boots and LA boots and wrists refine for the same HP as HA.
Personally i prefer more mdef given any situation. If i went lion heart neck, belt or ashura neck belt, i would lose major mdef. The compromise that is idea, as suggeted. Ashura boots, arm, lion heart belt, BUT use a swindler necklace or cube necklace (that 5% hp add is worth it). If you calculate the mdef with tt99 ha plate+belt, vs, g15/g16 chest and HA/LA ornaments, tt99 ha plate and belt is comparable, allowing a bm to get end game necklace.
The sad part is, most build are the case of blind leading the blind. People have played this game for long, but still remember the old builds, or made their builds when those builds were popular. People only look at one thing. That is why BM's have odd pieces all over.Night$aber - Dreamweaver wrote: »If i'm not mistaken,sage cyclone heel has a 20 seconds duration.That means you can use it before spark and still have it active the whole spark.It's true it somewhat lower the damage since you spark at longer intervals than demon bms,but isn't the point of sage getting defense from sage spark,sage bell and somewhat sage marrows?
Edit: I meant in pve.In pvp demon bell and marrows are better and depending on situation,might be on pve too.
Yes, you are right, sage cyclone is 20 seconds. After cyclone, spark, there is not much left, timing has to be spot on. Otherwise losing out the 2~3 seconds by clicking will result in dd loss, that demon bm eat up and keep agro with. I find macros are better for timing things, but macros break often.
Plus if you make a pure dex build genie, 100+ dex, you get 12.5% reduction from dex, base skill is 15% at lvl 10 for windshield. So can end up with 27.5% damage reduction. If left at lvl 1, you can get about 18.5%. Often times i use mire on my 100+ str genie and not use gs when soloing things, when hf is in cool down, i get about 55% pdef reduction, 5% more than gs, and i save 2 sparks.
Only down side of relying on genies = high chi stone cost for average user. But if a person has reached this stage, they should have a stable chi stone supply from some place, otherwise the game becomes mean and expensive.0 -
Either cyclone or windshield will get you there. Users choice.
Squads are based around about an 18 second spark cycle (3 seconds sparking, 15 seconds active). For this reason HFs, Amps, Tangling Mires all are timed pretty well together for stacking debuffs. You run in, you spark, you HF or someone HFs for you. You'll need your squad to adjust to a sage who needs >5 seconds to start because he's cycloning. Also, if you cyclone each spark cycle thats a 20 second cycle which puts you off the standard amp cycle.
So every 18 seconds a demon bm will do 75 attacks (3 seconds sparking, 15 x 5 attacks) and a cycloning sage will be doing 65 attacks (2 seconds cycloning, 3 seconds sparking, 13 x 5 attacking). 15.4% more attacks for demons and they'll further capitalize by hitting debuffs for longer periods.
That'd be my argument comparing cyclone heel vs windshield. Both work though.
And sage masteries are not always better than demon. As you get more damage multipliers like strength, rings, and buffs the 1% crit becomes more and more as your damage grows. But, the 15% weapon mastery becomes a smaller and smaller portion of total damage. When sparked you get 500% more weapon damage, and 15% mastery difference becomes very small and +1% crit contributes more. So comparing unsparked average of (350% multipliers +1% crit) vs (365% multipliers) sage usually wins, sparked comparing (850% +1% crit) vs (865%) demon usually wins. All this assuming equal aps.
Unsparked, sage usually wins by 1-2% damage (assuming equal attack rates) sparked its about equal. Sparked, its about equal to .5% for either demon or sage. In PvP 1% crit is more valuable than a 1.5% more dph.Seven 100+ characters leveled the hard way. Free to play. Mystic, Psychic, and Wizard left to level. b:victory0 -
Jaabg - Sanctuary wrote: »Personally i prefer more mdef given any situation. If i went lion heart neck, belt or ashura neck belt, i would lose major mdef. The compromise that is idea, as suggeted. Ashura boots, arm, lion heart belt, BUT use a swindler necklace or cube necklace (that 5% hp add is worth it). If you calculate the mdef with tt99 ha plate+belt, vs, g15/g16 chest and HA/LA ornaments, tt99 ha plate and belt is comparable, allowing a bm to get end game necklace.
The sad part is, most build are the case of blind leading the blind. People have played this game for long, but still remember the old builds, or made their builds when those builds were popular. People only look at one thing. That is why BM's have odd pieces all over.
the thing is that whit swindler neck even thou it gives boost to HP and m. def you lose interval and chance for bether armour becos you must use tt99 HA chest..
as sage dont have spark to boost aps they depend on gear.
so HA belt/neck...LA boots/bracers.../g15 pants leave place for either g16 chest whitch is nice boost in def or r8 recast for interval + nice boost in def.
sage is a lot gear depended when it comes to aps becos you want 4aps base and that is not easy especially if you want end game weapon....i dont think i need to say how hard it is to roll 2x -0,05 on g16 fist/claw
anyway you look at is i think it is allways bether to have HA ornaments than LA
so whay i see it it is
http://pwcalc.com/04ce0324127a775f
or
http://pwcalc.com/f7ba3fed26a09f4c0 -
I was thinking demon b:surrender. Sage do have it harder in the gear department b:sad. It's a choice, got to live with consequences. I admit i went demon, simply because it was cheaper, i didn't look at anything else, when i first started looking into these things.0
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I got -int r8r plate and I would never go sage cause it is just bad b:bye0
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Jaabg - Sanctuary wrote: »Sakubatou might be referring to the casting time that will take up when you are sparked, effectively reducing the time your dding while sparked. Those 2~3 seconds get added on to the spark's 2~3 seconds, where we all just stand and look pretty.
And before anyone gets the idea of having a -50% chan or higher bm, just don't b:chuckle.
What he saidNight$aber - Dreamweaver wrote: »If i'm not mistaken,sage cyclone heel has a 20 seconds duration.That means you can use it before spark and still have it active the whole spark.It's true it somewhat lower the damage since you spark at longer intervals than demon bms,but isn't the point of sage getting defense from sage spark,sage bell and somewhat sage marrows?
Edit: I meant in pve.In pvp demon bell and marrows are better and depending on situation,might be on pve too.
And to take note on some things about why some BMs go sage...Ever have a sage BM use sage Fissure on your squad in TW with a wiz nearby? Just kiss your LA and low refined HA ***** goodbye...Not to mention the easy spammable crit add from highland...Ignoring the effective chi save for TW...
HA refines better getting more HP and almost all APS builds are either purely PvE or are temporary, going with a full heavy set for Nirv, this needing the TT99 HA in the long run being more cost effective in the end. When ti comes down to it in PvE if you need M.Def you marrow it and more HP becomes more useful...Necare - Harshlands wrote: »Can anyone explain to me why the majority of BMs get Lionheart Greaves and Vambraces and Ashura belt and necklace?
Wouldn't it be better to get Ashura Greaves and Vambraces and Lionheart belt and necklace?Sjuggs - Lost City wrote: »I got -int r8r plate and I would never go sage cause it is just bad b:bye
That's because sage is attrocious on APS BMs, but put it on an axe BM and say hello to a deadly TW force...
Back on topic...
Here's a decently realistic sage 5 aps BM without using 2 sets of TT99 and still being 4 aps base thus cyclone heel and windshield bringing the BM to 5 aps easily that has some good defenses.
http://pwcalc.com/617ecd787065be8c
Personally I'd get a magic ring with at least a +6 on it for magic defense in the end, but as far as sage APS go 5 is just as easy as demon.
However, if you were demon (and this is why sage is attrocious for BMs based around APS) You could have this pretty little thing right here...
http://pwcalc.com/018c689e834c6a84
That has more attack by a very, very, very, VERY significant amount. I'd pick the demon if I were going APS (Which is why I am demon, I was originally an APS BM, but not anymore and oh how I drool over sage Highland Cleave...)
So odds are if you want to be APS, just go demon. The damage you can do is so much significantly higher it's ridiculous. Plus, demon HF is so ******n sexy, especially when you 3 spark, cloud eruption, HF, and have damage like that for the added HF time. Dear god is that epic in PvE.
Of course, if you got uber lucky and rolled .05 interval twice on fists (which is just...unrealistic, don't even bother) then you could probably out-DD a demon...but at that point, sell the fists and make a killer profit anyway.
As a strong supporter of sage BMs, I must say sage fails hard for APS users (longer stuns really only benefit APS BMs since it's only DB that's extended, though I'd still rather have demon roar) and demon is great because..well, all your skills compliment it. Such as demon Highland Cleave.
In summary, don't bother too much with good APS gear as a sage, you'd just be using that kind of gear in PvE or for chi, and therefor isn't worth the hassle of spending a ton on it in the end.It is said that apple pie is best served Al La Mode, so if you are the pie, consider me your ice cream.0 -
Saethos - Raging Tide wrote: »What he said
And to take note on some things about why some BMs go sage...Ever have a sage BM use sage Fissure on your squad in TW with a wiz nearby? Just kiss your LA and low refined HA ***** goodbye...Not to mention the easy spammable crit add from highland...Ignoring the effective chi save for TW...
HA refines better getting more HP and almost all APS builds are either purely PvE or are temporary, going with a full heavy set for Nirv, this needing the TT99 HA in the long run being more cost effective in the end. When ti comes down to it in PvE if you need M.Def you marrow it and more HP becomes more useful...
That's because sage is attrocious on APS BMs, but put it on an axe BM and say hello to a deadly TW force...
Back on topic...
Here's a decently realistic sage 5 aps BM without using 2 sets of TT99 and still being 4 aps base thus cyclone heel and windshield bringing the BM to 5 aps easily that has some good defenses.
http://pwcalc.com/617ecd787065be8c
Personally I'd get a magic ring with at least a +6 on it for magic defense in the end, but as far as sage APS go 5 is just as easy as demon.
However, if you were demon (and this is why sage is attrocious for BMs based around APS) You could have this pretty little thing right here...
http://pwcalc.com/018c689e834c6a84
That has more attack by a very, very, very, VERY significant amount. I'd pick the demon if I were going APS (Which is why I am demon, I was originally an APS BM, but not anymore and oh how I drool over sage Highland Cleave...)
So odds are if you want to be APS, just go demon. The damage you can do is so much significantly higher it's ridiculous. Plus, demon HF is so ******n sexy, especially when you 3 spark, cloud eruption, HF, and have damage like that for the added HF time. Dear god is that epic in PvE.
Of course, if you got uber lucky and rolled .05 interval twice on fists (which is just...unrealistic, don't even bother) then you could probably out-DD a demon...but at that point, sell the fists and make a killer profit anyway.
As a strong supporter of sage BMs, I must say sage fails hard for APS users (longer stuns really only benefit APS BMs since it's only DB that's extended, though I'd still rather have demon roar) and demon is great because..well, all your skills compliment it. Such as demon Highland Cleave.
In summary, don't bother too much with good APS gear as a sage, you'd just be using that kind of gear in PvE or for chi, and therefor isn't worth the hassle of spending a ton on it in the end.
Yep, gotta agree with you0 -
100% zhen-free since jan 2009 b:cool
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Saethos - Raging Tide wrote: »
And to take note on some things about why some BMs go sage...Ever have a sage BM use sage Fissure on your squad in TW with a wiz nearby? Just kiss your LA and low refined HA ***** goodbye...Not to mention the easy spammable crit add from highland...Ignoring the effective chi save for TW...
HA refines better getting more HP and almost all APS builds are either purely PvE or are temporary, going with a full heavy set for Nirv, this needing the TT99 HA in the long run being more cost effective in the end. When ti comes down to it in PvE if you need M.Def you marrow it and more HP becomes more useful...
That's because sage is attrocious on APS BMs, but put it on an axe BM and say hello to a deadly TW force...
While I appreciate that these arguments are well formed and good points, in TW sage Fissure really isn't that much of a difference. Its really more of a pve skill, not that it isn't helpful in pvp. The 30% fire debuff is to base magic defense and everyone in TW will have a cleric buff of +60% mdef. So while a 30% debuff would increase fire damage 15-20%, after cleric buff its more like an 8-15% increase in damage. Helpful, yes. Game shattering, No. And especially ineffective against other BMs who are probably magic marrowed and walking around with base mdef + 60% cleric buff + 120% marrow =280% mdef and sage fissure reduces it to only 250% for about < 8% damage more. And all of this before defense levels reduce it even further, which sage fissure has no impact on.
And I'd hardly consider Highland Cleave's crit proc 'spammable'. Its a 25% chance with a 8.4 second cast and cooldown. Meaning if you did nothing but spam sage Highland with no breaks you'd be proc'd about 29% of the time.
Again, I'd argue def > hp, even in tw, but its an old argument thats been done a hundred times and I'd agree for non-aps purposes not using LA is a good choice. If you have to use TT99 LA though I'd rather take the tiny hp hit of LA armor pieces than the big defense hit of LA ornies.Saethos - Raging Tide wrote: »Here's a decently realistic sage 5 aps BM without using 2 sets of TT99 and still being 4 aps base thus cyclone heel and windshield bringing the BM to 5 aps easily that has some good defenses.
http://pwcalc.com/617ecd787065be8c
Good build, although for many the R8r with -int is out of reach.
I'm at 8 rerolls now, no luck yet. It cost roughly 100m to craft and 25m a reroll, so thats 275m for a piece of armor I'm not even bothering to use yet. By the odds its a 1:24 shot of interval so 100m for the first cast and 23 more rerolls at 25m each you can expect to pay 675m average for that piece. Some get lucky in 1 or 2 attempts, others will take more than 24 attempts. Most don't even bother.Seven 100+ characters leveled the hard way. Free to play. Mystic, Psychic, and Wizard left to level. b:victory0 -
_Nottunyx_ - Heavens Tear wrote: »
I won't lie, if I had r9t3, I'd go demon...Longer stuns for the people that will use AD or for sins that have that evasion skill and DN. The HF would come real handy against bosses. All those attack levels kinda make the 15% from mastery look...lust so meh. There's a bunch of other arguments, but I won't get into it...It is said that apple pie is best served Al La Mode, so if you are the pie, consider me your ice cream.0 -
u can go 5 aps on a sage bm it just costs a little more. but i think belt+neck, 99 wrists,99boots,2nd cast nv pants, int cape, r8 recast chest, and if all possible 3rd cast nv claws with 2 ints on them(probably the most expensive peice of gear, then last but not least a tome. i think thatll put u at 5 aps base wich means ull benifit more from ur sage spark then u would a demon spark. only downside is unless u get super lucky and manage to get 1 last int on the chest or claws u can get rid of the belt+neck combo for better m.def gears.
with the skill changes in the upcoming expansion sages will be getting a slight upgrade so some its not bad to go sage just be prepared for any critiques u get and take all of it with a grain of salt0 -
_Nottunyx_ - Heavens Tear wrote: »
Um, it might be just me, but if you're gonna be a full S3 R9 axe-built BM, why is there base 200 Dex? b:surrender[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Sig made by Dorset b:victoryb:thanks0
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