Ok - Fastest Daggers

Flamespirit - Dreamweaver · September 2012

hmm If I got the daggers, I'd probably go find one of the super rich people and offer them for 20k in real $ an then go buy something useful.

VenusArmani - Dreamweaver · September 2012

xulanguoixa wrote: »

I asked a friend of mine to recast an extra pair of dark thorn daggers I had on bank. I did not like the stats and recast it only 1 time. Got the x3 interval.

The problem is what to do with it.

Anyone who actually has those, should get better defensive gear.

@OP

I'm also super jealous of those daggers. Lucky guy right there.

Jaabg - Sanctuary · September 2012

OmegaToth - Harshlands wrote: »

sry thats not tru..no other class beside sin is so cheap to make it OP against other classes..check the amount of money/coins u need to make other classes equal to a cheap nirv 5 aps g13 +10 sin, not even mentioning zerk.

Fish challenge accepted b:chuckle

http://pwcalc.com/a9622e5e94711327

The build linked above in ugly format, that can solo 3-3, some refines can be lower, but this is what my friend uses. He is a sage sin, i am guessing demon can do it with a similar build.

I will break the prices in two parts, buying straight out or farming.

Buying straight out

Helm = tt90 helm = 15.7m, tt80 = free, 110 for first stage, 165 for the 2nd cast. Canny price 280k (changes by server, you can input your prices). 275 cannyx 280k = 77m, total cost 93m

Chest = r8 = let's assume you get full r8 from boutique, gold price 1.4m, rep badges at 0.45 for 50. 72 gold, roughly 103m total.

Legs = tt90 (free), tt99 gold = 21.2m, 2ns stage = 250 canny, 250 cannyx 280k = 70m, total price = 91.6m

feet = tt90 (free), tt99 gold = 21.2m, total price 21.6m

Arms = tt90 (free), tt99 gold = 11m, total cost 11m

Lunar cape = 40m

Lionheart Belt = 26.2m, all the green version are super easy to farm.

Lionheart necklace = 9m, the green version are easy to farm (it is a sin we are talking about here people)

Lunar rings = 30m (i know price varies, but lets say you want them asap, 30m is a good price to buy at in sanctuary), total price 60m.

Weapon = tt99 gold version, 5m, rap cost 1.275m (going for a quick buy), 127.5m, total price = 132.5m

Total gear cost = 93m+103m+21.6m+11m+40m+26.2m+9m+60m+132.5m = 496.3m, we can round it to 500m, for simplicity. Price range can be anywhere from 400m~500m depending on how good your deals are.

Sharding cost = I assumed on avreage people get 17 sockets, 2 items are 2 socket, rest are 3 socket, and r8 chest is 4 socket. Armour is full dot (cheaper), 15m per dot = 255m, garnet gem 40m, total sharding cost = 295m, round up to 300m.

Refining cost, this is the tricky part, some people refine to +7 for free, other +8 for free, others use orbs all the way. We'll assume +7 is free, to offset the rounding up costs a bit. Even the weapon was +7 for free (diligent dq point spending sin). We assume the +8 was done with a dragon orb ocean for simplicity, even though +8 orb is slightly cheaper.

12 ocean orbs are used. 25 gold for 1, haven't seen 100 for 5 for about a year now. Gold price is assumed to be 1.4m, each ocean orb costs 35.7m. Total ocean orb cost = 428.4m, we'll round it to 430m.

As jen said in her secret post, skills cost 45~48m, we put 45m, you get paint, and a bunch of other neat skills.

Genie cost = 10m

Tome = 300m

Total misc cost = 45m+10m+300m = 355m

Armour/weapon cost + sharding cost + refining cost+misc costs = Aps face/keyboard rolling sin, that can solo 3-3 (main source of income).

500m+300m+430m+355m = 1 585m, or 1.585 billion coins spent, you can get a keyboard rolling sin.

If everything is farmed in the above example

Farming cost = Time+pain+frustration+dc+repairs = priceless

Farming benefit = free+satisfaction = facerolling at pro level.

We take a breath, we have one concrete number. 1.585 billion = self sufficient sin. You can knock off 1m~300m here and there, or even more, depending on luck, farming, prices, deals, etc.

So people think having such a sin is cheap compared to other classes? That is coming mighty close to getting unrefined, unshared full r9 set for any character. If people stick with r8 only, their class will come out cheaper, simply because if everything is constant, the gear cost is r8, which is 200m as opposed to 500m.

All endgame equipment, refine shards, takes time, effort, money in different proportions. Berating the sin class, because they have the ability to solo instances that other classes can not, is not the answer. Once you have invested 1.5b~2b in your equipment, and you can't do things you want, than we can have a discussion.

The above sin goes with sage buffs mostly form friends.

If you change weapon to g15, g16, r9, naturally the cost is higher. If you switch in some vit stones, cost goes higher. If you use orbs all the way, or from +3~+5 onwards, the cost is higher. If you buy the gold at 1.5~2m, the cost is higher.

I simply do not accept the fact that sins are not a proper class. Soloing tt 3-2, 3-3 bosses is a bit more play than simply spark, auto attack, spark. PVP, the above sin might have a super hard time against r9 +10, vit, josd classes, but that is because the gear is not at par. If the other classes are r8, tt99, g15 vana, and refined to +10, sin will still have a hard time. But if you gear is +5 or below in refines, even a bm can kill you with bad axes, and bm have one of the worst damages out there if there weapon is bad (like my tt99 anchor axes b:surrender).

With that cost, i can make a r9 weapon wizzy, psy, archer with r8 armour. I will be more OP than that sin in tw (assuming i knew how to play any of the classes mentioned, goes back to bm world and soloes 3-3 with a build that cost 400m, but hey we are talking about sins here, don't hate on bms b:cute).

My understanding, no endgame character is cheap, no matter which class you play, if you truly want to be endgame. People should come to terms that endgame = expensive, no matter which class you are going for.

As for the weapon simulator, i have acquired 3x int, on 1st try, 2nd try, 18th, and anywhere in between the few thousand rolls i have done. I stopped when i get intx1, and check how many rolls it took. It happens rarely, but it does happen in the calculator, but as with anything regarding pwi and calculators, they do not follow the pattern when i try it in game b:cry. One would think, 2x would 2x better luck factor, but it comes out as 2x more unlucky factor.

Congrats to person who got int 3 times on daggers, those are awesome daggers

.

I only the gear costs for sins and bms right now. As those are the only two classes i have gotten close to endgame gear. Missing some last refines and shards (+7 free b:sad). They are pve builds, not pvp. Other people have a far better idea about prices and gears for sins, bm and other classes, we can all do a comparison on good viable build and its costs. I would hazard a guess, that costs will be similar for good pve, pvp builds for any class, when the price tag is 1~2 billion coins.

VenusArmani - Dreamweaver · September 2012

Jaabg - Sanctuary wrote: »

Fish challenge accepted b:chuckle

http://pwcalc.com/a9622e5e94711327

The build linked above in ugly format, that can solo 3-3, some refines can be lower, but this is what my friend uses. He is a sage sin, i am guessing demon can do it with a similar build.

I will break the prices in two parts, buying straight out or farming.

Buying straight out

Helm = tt90 helm = 15.7m, tt80 = free, 110 for first stage, 165 for the 2nd cast. Canny price 280k (changes by server, you can input your prices). 275 cannyx 280k = 77m, total cost 93m

Chest = r8 = let's assume you get full r8 from boutique, gold price 1.4m, rep badges at 0.45 for 50. 72 gold, roughly 103m total.

Legs = tt90 (free), tt99 gold = 21.2m, 2ns stage = 250 canny, 250 cannyx 280k = 70m, total price = 91.6m

feet = tt90 (free), tt99 gold = 21.2m, total price 21.6m

Arms = tt90 (free), tt99 gold = 11m, total cost 11m

Lunar cape = 40m

Lionheart Belt = 26.2m, all the green version are super easy to farm.

Lionheart necklace = 9m, the green version are easy to farm (it is a sin we are talking about here people)

Lunar rings = 30m (i know price varies, but lets say you want them asap, 30m is a good price to buy at in sanctuary), total price 60m.

Weapon = tt99 gold version, 5m, rap cost 1.275m (going for a quick buy), 127.5m, total price = 132.5m

Total gear cost = 93m+103m+21.6m+11m+40m+26.2m+9m+60m+132.5m = 496.3m, we can round it to 500m, for simplicity. Price range can be anywhere from 400m~500m depending on how good your deals are.

Sharding cost = I assumed on avreage people get 17 sockets, 2 items are 2 socket, rest are 3 socket, and r8 chest is 4 socket. Armour is full dot (cheaper), 15m per dot = 255m, garnet gem 40m, total sharding cost = 295m, round up to 300m.

Refining cost, this is the tricky part, some people refine to +7 for free, other +8 for free, others use orbs all the way. We'll assume +7 is free, to offset the rounding up costs a bit. Even the weapon was +7 for free (diligent dq point spending sin). We assume the +8 was done with a dragon orb ocean for simplicity, even though +8 orb is slightly cheaper.

12 ocean orbs are used. 25 gold for 1, haven't seen 100 for 5 for about a year now. Gold price is assumed to be 1.4m, each ocean orb costs 35.7m. Total ocean orb cost = 428.4m, we'll round it to 430m.

As jen said in her secret post, skills cost 45~48m, we put 45m, you get paint, and a bunch of other neat skills.

Genie cost = 10m

Tome = 300m

Total misc cost = 45m+10m+300m = 355m

Genies are given to players at first for free, and for farming you don't need a super great genie. You just need certain skills.

You don't need a tome for 5aps.

You don't need a lunar rings for 5aps.

Use a +8 Orb in your calculation, if someone is price wise enough to refien to +7 for free, they probably would also use a +8 orb.

You don't need a lunar cape for 5aps. Many use the wraithgate cape/hallucinatory capes, which are far, far cheaper.

You don't need a nirvy hat for 5aps, and many people who use cheaper 5aps builds go for the Warsoul helm instead.

All of these significantly lowers the cost for a sin to get 5 aps and get into farming instances. It takes a much bigger investment for a caster to do the same, and they have to have a bigger gear requirement to solo FC until they can get the gear to do their version of nirvana.

Olbaze - Sanctuary · September 2012

VenusArmani - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Use a +8 Orb in your calculation, if someone is price wise enough to refien to +7 for free, they probably would also use a +8 orb.

Nope.

The cheapest you can get a +8 Orb is via Dragon's Fire Packs. They cost 0.18G and yield an average of 2.549 1* Orbs. Since the +8 requires 405 1* Orbs, the cost is 28.6 Gold. In comparison, you could buy an Ocean Orb for 25 Gold.

VenusArmani - Dreamweaver · September 2012

Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »

Nope.

The cheapest you can get a +8 Orb is via Dragon's Fire Packs. They cost 0.18G and yield an average of 2.549 1* Orbs. Since the +8 requires 405 1* Orbs, the cost is 28.6 Gold. In comparison, you could buy an Ocean Orb for 25 Gold.

Hm, was going by him saying they were cheaper on his server. :P

Jaabg - Sanctuary · September 2012

VenusArmani - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Genies are given to players at first for free, and for farming you don't need a super great genie. You just need certain skills.

You don't need a tome for 5aps.

You don't need a lunar rings for 5aps.

Use a +8 Orb in your calculation, if someone is price wise enough to refien to +7 for free, they probably would also use a +8 orb.

You don't need a lunar cape for 5aps. Many use the wraithgate cape/hallucinatory capes, which are far, far cheaper.

You don't need a nirvy hat for 5aps, and many people who use cheaper 5aps builds go for the Warsoul helm instead.

All of these significantly lowers the cost for a sin to get 5 aps and get into farming instances. It takes a much bigger investment for a caster to do the same, and they have to have a bigger gear requirement to solo FC until they can get the gear to do their version of nirvana.

What you say is true.

The lunar cape is there for dot and -int, the other version do not allow higher grade shards/gems to be placed inside them.

Lunar rings are for mdef, cheaper alternative to sky cover.

Nirvana helm = lower str requirement, and added set bonus of 5 attack lvls, as well pdef and mdef, warsoul helm not such a great option. At high end refining, nirvana helm, or g16 will win out i think.

Genies = person buying the gear, not making it. A 71+ genie comes in more handy than one would imagine, especially if zeal for sin. 10m = buying cost, as that sin build is buying it.

Orb cost for 8* is 52m at 0.9 gold for 10, i was referring to the 0.45 gold sale, 8* will cost 26m. Recently the orb price is 1 gold+, so 7* is iffy as well. That is why cheaper to go ocean on 8 and onwards. Olbaze ninjaed my reply b:thanks, that is an alternative as well, but dragon packs and i don't go well together.

Tome is not needed, but he is sage 4 aps base, he finds it very helpful in surviving. It's one of those odd things about aps, once you experience each stage of aps as base, you find your easy comfort zone and the hard press zone. For my bm, 3.33 is easy, 4.0 base is cruise (cyclone heel puts me at 5, gain chi quicker for hf, gs, mss spam, but 2.86 causes some issues, but doable, lower than 2.86 causes issues with tanking solo, because i rely on spark damage to get good heals, if i spend time non sparked is the potential to get killed). Higher aps for him results in fewer charm ticks, which in turn reduces his costs.

A person can burn through 300k+ charm easily in tt 3-3 in solo mode. That is 4 tt's done and the charm is gone. At present let's assume the average price of 5m. 300m/5 = 60 charms = 1 tome. 1 tome cost = 240 tt runs in terms of charm cost. Most people do 10 runs easily in 1 day during 2x. That amounts to 24 days. In 24 days he has racked up the cost of the tome in the charms he bought.

All the above are not essentials, but in the long run they all bring down the average cost of the run. That is what we aim for, quickest run at the lowest cost with the greatest profit. Otherwise little incentive to do something. Profit does not = coin all the time.

All of the above are not needed to enter the instance, but that assumes you have other people to help you. Someone else is doing the heavy lifting. If that is the case, same applies for casters, they are not their doing the heavy lifting, someone else is doing that.

All of the above make the sin to be able to solo 3-3, that is not the same as going with a party of 2~5 other players, and playing the role of support dd. To be a support dd, one only needs skills, and the ability to survive most aoes. To be able to solo, does require a similar set up as above.

The alternatives you suggested are the ways to be 5aps, to be 5aps is cheap. To kill with only 5 aps, without shards, refines is a horrible experience. The same sin will die 1~2 shots from the caster in same gear in tw. Each class has to utilize it's strength and cover its weaknesses in tw to be successful. For sins that would mean non aps gear preferably to survive better. To use skills as opposed to sparking.

VenusArmani - Dreamweaver · September 2012

Jaabg - Sanctuary wrote: »

What you say is true.

The lunar cape is there for dot and -int, the other version do not allow higher grade shards/gems to be placed inside them.

Lunar rings are for mdef, cheaper alternative to sky cover.

Nirvana helm = lower str requirement, and added set bonus of 5 attack lvls, as well pdef and mdef, warsoul helm not such a great option. At high end refining, nirvana helm, or g16 will win out i think.

Genies = person buying the gear, not making it. A 71+ genie comes in more handy than one would imagine, especially if zeal for sin. 10m = buying cost, as that sin build is buying it.

Orb cost for 8* is 52m at 0.9 gold for 10, i was referring to the 0.45 gold sale, 8* will cost 26m. Recently the orb price is 1 gold+, so 7* is iffy as well. That is why cheaper to go ocean on 8 and onwards. Olbaze ninjaed my reply b:thanks, that is an alternative as well, but dragon packs and i don't go well together.

Tome is not needed, but he is sage 4 aps base, he finds it very helpful in surviving. It's one of those odd things about aps, once you experience each stage of aps as base, you find your easy comfort zone and the hard press zone. For my bm, 3.33 is easy, 4.0 base is cruise (cyclone heel puts me at 5, gain chi quicker for hf, gs, mss spam, but 2.86 causes some issues, but doable, lower than 2.86 causes issues with tanking solo, because i rely on spark damage to get good heals, if i spend time non sparked is the potential to get killed). Higher aps for him results in fewer charm ticks, which in turn reduces his costs.

A person can burn through 300k+ charm easily in tt 3-3 in solo mode. That is 4 tt's done and the charm is gone. At present let's assume the average price of 5m. 300m/5 = 60 charms = 1 tome. 1 tome cost = 240 tt runs in terms of charm cost. Most people do 10 runs easily in 1 day during 2x. That amounts to 24 days. In 24 days he has racked up the cost of the tome in the charms he bought.

All the above are not essentials, but in the long run they all bring down the average cost of the run. That is what we aim for, quickest run at the lowest cost with the greatest profit. Otherwise little incentive to do something. Profit does not = coin all the time.

All of the above are not needed to enter the instance, but that assumes you have other people to help you. Someone else is doing the heavy lifting. If that is the case, same applies for casters, they are not their doing the heavy lifting, someone else is doing that.

All of the above make the sin to be able to solo 3-3, that is not the same as going with a part of 2~5 other players, and playing the role of support dd. To be a support dd, one only needs skills, and the ability to survive most aoes. To be able to solo, does require a similar set up as above.

The alternatives you suggested are the ways to be 5aps, to be 5aps is cheap. To kill with only 5 aps, without shards, refines is a horrible experience. The same sin will die 1~2 shots from the caster in same gear in tw. Each class has to utilize it's strength and cover its weaknesses in tw to be successful. For sins that would mean non aps gear preferably to survive better. To use skills as opposed to sparking.

I never said not to shard and refine it, or that eventually the sin shouldn't upgrade it's gear. I'm saying that is complete truth in that sins can get into high end farming with much, much cheaper gear than a caster. Which is the original point you were arguing against. Sins don't need a ton of super expensive gear to get into nirvy. They just need a +10 whatever weapon, and 5aps which can be obtained for cheap. Heck getting the weapon to +10 is harder than getting the gear for it. And that is into any squad, not just friends/factionmates.

And the cheap gear can solo 2-3 until it gears up for 3-3, as well as FC, and Nirvy. Besides, 3-3 is not the only high end farming instance. It's not even the most popular one.

As far as single pvp goes, it's not that hard to get cheap kills on a sin either. In gear that is worse than the other players. That is number one complaint against sins.

Jaabg - Sanctuary · September 2012

That is true, sins get in easier, but the same thing applies to all other classes. When i was not 5 aps, i was farming the same amount of runs as when i was 5 aps with a smiliar speed squad. When i was not +10 i still ran with squads that did vana in 5 minutes.

I often went the extra mile finding good squads and players, and often times the good players invited me on their own runs with their friends, and that helps.

My caster friends face a similar stigma in caster vana. TT 99 weapon with low refines is fine by some squads, but not others, even if both squads can handle the low dd. Some squad refuse to take the person even with r8 weapon, because it is not high refine.

The problem with above is, that a large number of "aps people" have created casters and are imposing similar rules, which hurts both sides

.

Lunar = caster dream, not so much for a sin. Warsong = caster friendly, not so much for sin. Delta = caster friendly, sins feel left out (but i like them for bp and ss timed with hf, gs, amp, arma = one shot waves often). PQ = friendly to both classes, does not require high end gear, but tanking does. AEU = need both classes, sins can be left out. Aba/Sot = sin solo dream, but bh bosses = nightmare usually. TM 69 = if people have endgame gear, they can do it, that instance is not partial to any class. TM Lunar = more caster friendly compared to sin. Other TM's i have been in, we rarely ever take a sin, we get bp before hand and we set off. Friday assault = caster friendly, not so much for sins.

Coming back to the issue of farming instances, or getting in, for me it is about whom you know not what you have. I use tt, because i am gearing my sin to solo tt for me, to add pocket money for my alts, so i don't have to touch merchanting money. Casters will have a harder time soloing tt compared to sins.

FCC = sin dream, even my bm takes 30~45 minutes to clear, sin does it in 15~20 to the exp room. Stealth is to blame, if the sin didn't stealth, she would take much longer than bm to clear fcc, because sin can not pull or dd without charm ticking the mobs.

As for vana and casters, if a caster has a +10 r8 weapon, that caster will have awesome dd. Simply because you can time the biggest dd skill with spark, hf, amp, ss/ep, pdeff debuff, mdef debuff, mira, and they can hit 300k~700k, no sin can compete with that. When i go to vana, it doesn't matter to me who the 6th person is. The dd, tank is already high enough, so we often take caster friends, and if they have 99 keys, we do those as well. As i mentioned earlier, it is about whom you know, i know some people will uninstall the game before even considering taking a caster class to vana on regular vana runs. Our group might be an exception to the norm, but we don't have to be b:sad.

Having played with a friend who is a caster r9 3rd cast +12, i can say for sure, i can not take agro ever with g16+10 claws on my bm, no matter what i do. Granted her gear is the OPness of all OPness and she can solo pretty much any instance, but she chooses to take others with her.

The problem with the "sin aps wrold" is that they tend not to include others, while "casters" are more willing to. For me that is where the problems begin and antagonism in this thread starts from.

Were you referring to some other instance not covered above that any class has trouble doing? I would like to try it out and see, always looking for fun things to do in this game.

For the record, sins are horrible simply because they do not have aoe stun, and no hf, they go squish quickly when things get hard b:bye b:cry.

Nurfed_You - Harshlands · September 2012

http://pwcalc.com/d23aac9e16b0d824

build i use to solo 3-3. 6 10*'s used, rest refined w/ tishas. shards farmed in coa/tourny/nirvana. I can solo fc, 3-3 3-2, nirvana when i get openers, warsong pavilions/bosses, fb99 for books/bh. and anything else i really feel like doing. If i was 105 on this char i could kill r9 players w/ this build simply by having frenzy on my genie and windshield.

So, i can solo any instance that is good to run for money nv included.
helm-176mil
r8-100mil(when i got it)
nirv pants-100mil for pants (farmed some of the cannies)
farmed boots/wrists
lionheart belt-30mil i believe
tome-270mil
cape-45mil
90gold neck-7mil
daggers-160mil

888mil for a build that can solo pretty much anything to make money excuding warsong, but will still get a squad invite.

now, that same build in pvp when played correctly is viable for killing r9 players w/o josd. lets see how much it costs to build a wizard that is viable for pvp against r9 players w/o josd.

this is basically the minimum wizards need nowadays to be good in tw, this wouldnt really be all that great in open pvp http://pwcalc.com/6f3ad32b050991bb
Let alone they have to have gear good enough to farm warsong, but we won't count that
neck-250mil
cape-185mil
4 pieces of 3rd cast-300mil
helm-175mil
tome-7mil
rings-80mil
weap-475mil

2.2bil coins after garnet gems, and your only really "effective" in tw. not a primary DD, not a real threat. Just harder to kill. even more cost if you go r9 to do real damage. you can solo a warsong pavilion, you can't solo any instances, and you can farm caaster vana which you could do w/ just r8 +7 annd 3k hp.

In conclusion for almost 3x the cost to build a sin you have a "viable" wizard build. same for clerics/venos/mystics, though they could probably do w/ around 1.7bil worth of gear I.E. 2nd cast vana. So please continue to say that a sins gear costs the same to be "accepted" in squads.

The only thing i can say for assassins is that it sucks for those who couldnt goon glitch to 105 to be camped by the glitchers while the other classes don't "need" 105 for stealth.

Anyways this is all relative because an assassin can merchent and farm at the same time, while casters can generally only merchent. While everyone can make a "farming sin" thats an extra 888mil youhave to farm +lvling/culti before you can start farming coin for your mains gear.

SinfuINature - Harshlands · September 2012

Nurfed_You - Harshlands wrote: »

The only thing i can say for assassins is that it sucks for those who couldnt goon glitch to 105 to be camped by the glitchers while the other classes don't "need" 105 for stealth.

yea i wish i would have goon glitched it up when it was here... but i guess thats what i get for thinking PWI had some since of a nutt sack and would ban players for it... o well

btw thanks for doing nothing to fix it...

augustfinknottle · September 2012

Nurfed_You - Harshlands wrote: »

In conclusion for almost 3x the cost to build a sin you have a "viable" wizard build. same for clerics/venos/mystics, though they could probably do w/ around 1.7bil worth of gear I.E. 2nd cast vana. So please continue to say that a sins gear costs the same to be "accepted" in squads.

I'm pretty sure clerics are the cheapest class to make and be accepted into any kind of squad. People just go "LF Cleric for THIS OR THAT", "Hi, cleric here", "Invite". Noone ever asks for a cleric to link weapon or anything like that, and I'm pretty sure a cleric with a build as lame as this could do just fine in [almost] any instance, especially since clerics aren't required to solo a pavillion in a full warsong run, usually - it's common for them to get help with fire. They were not even required to heal in arma boss when noone knew about the glitch. Their job was only to rez people up to avoid a squad wipe. So, how much would that whole thing cost? Under 200mil, probably? Too lazy to do the math.

Nurfed_You - Harshlands · September 2012

so a cleric will get to go to warsong in cheaper gear then a sin. have you ever done warsong? i'm pretty sure aoe's alone could kill that cleric through bb. people want fast runs pulling entire paths. good luck doing that w/ that build. And if you can, props to you. Your going to get biased squads who won't take you to any instance just like a wizard in the same gear.

the entire point is to be useful in pvp/tw aka not a one shot and be able to farm. also, archers can still get by on harshlands w/ the same gear set up that sins use (r8 bow). but who takes archers to farm? last i saw they had an entire QQ thread about it.

augustfinknottle · September 2012

Yeah, I've done quite some warsongs. Farmed pretty much a G15 belt (got all the waistbands and gave up when the manufacturing of warsong mats would just fail time after time) before they revamped it (all on barb), and 2 weapons (claws and daggers) and almost 2 sets of G16 gear after it. Unless I'm terribly mistaken, aoes in warsong are pretty much all magical? 11k m.def. with 6.4k hp is decent enough to take some hits through BB, and an HP charm and crab meat should make up for the time it takes for the charm to cooldown.

Now, sure, none of my toons are as badly geared as that cleric, but what I enjoy most in PWI is TW. For PVE farming, though, that is enough.

Again, for PVP that gear is complete trash and shouldn't be ever considered. For all BHs, all TTs (even, if there's a competent person behind the toon, Beast boss in 3-3, which might be the worst one with such a gear because of purge and random aggro), lunar, nirvana and caster nirvana (especially caster nirvana, which is what matters the most for a cleric to be able to run), though, it's way more than enough to keep people alive without dying. That's all they expect from a cleric. You're not expected to tank or to DD much. It's pretty much all IH and Chromatic Beam and Purify. And, ofc, buffs.

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands · September 2012

augustfinknottle wrote: »

Noone ever asks for a cleric to link weapon or anything like that

Must be on your server, cause on HL people ask cleric to link weapon even just for BH.

lukenelstt6 · September 2012

Knownase - Heavens Tear wrote: »

If I'm not mistaken, I've heard someone on HT had a pair already.

thxxxxxx

sachelfunlol · September 2012

Nurfed_You - Harshlands wrote: »

http://pwcalc.com/6f3ad32b050991bb

your items on that server must be expensive for that build to cost that much, 55m for garnets? 175m for that hat?

Azizsixer - Raging Tide · September 2012

Nurfed_You - Harshlands wrote: »

http://pwcalc.com/d23aac9e16b0d824

build i use to solo 3-3. 6 10*'s used, rest refined w/ tishas. shards farmed in coa/tourny/nirvana. I can solo fc, 3-3 3-2, nirvana when i get openers, warsong pavilions/bosses, fb99 for books/bh. and anything else i really feel like doing. If i was 105 on this char i could kill r9 players w/ this build simply by having frenzy on my genie and windshield.

So, i can solo any instance that is good to run for money nv included.
helm-176mil
r8-100mil(when i got it)
nirv pants-100mil for pants (farmed some of the cannies)
farmed boots/wrists
lionheart belt-30mil i believe
tome-270mil
cape-45mil
90gold neck-7mil
daggers-160mil

888mil for a build that can solo pretty much anything to make money excuding warsong, but will still get a squad invite.

now, that same build in pvp when played correctly is viable for killing r9 players w/o josd. lets see how much it costs to build a wizard that is viable for pvp against r9 players w/o josd.

this is basically the minimum wizards need nowadays to be good in tw, this wouldnt really be all that great in open pvp http://pwcalc.com/6f3ad32b050991bb
Let alone they have to have gear good enough to farm warsong, but we won't count that
neck-250mil
cape-185mil
4 pieces of 3rd cast-300mil
helm-175mil
tome-7mil
rings-80mil
weap-475mil

2.2bil coins after garnet gems, and your only really "effective" in tw. not a primary DD, not a real threat. Just harder to kill. even more cost if you go r9 to do real damage. you can solo a warsong pavilion, you can't solo any instances, and you can farm caaster vana which you could do w/ just r8 +7 annd 3k hp.

In conclusion for almost 3x the cost to build a sin you have a "viable" wizard build. same for clerics/venos/mystics, though they could probably do w/ around 1.7bil worth of gear I.E. 2nd cast vana. So please continue to say that a sins gear costs the same to be "accepted" in squads.

The only thing i can say for assassins is that it sucks for those who couldnt goon glitch to 105 to be camped by the glitchers while the other classes don't "need" 105 for stealth.

Anyways this is all relative because an assassin can merchent and farm at the same time, while casters can generally only merchent. While everyone can make a "farming sin" thats an extra 888mil youhave to farm +lvling/culti before you can start farming coin for your mains gear.

Are you serious? Killing R9/JoSD charas with tht lameass sin build? Are those afk nabs just sitting there letting the sin aps them to death?

I don't understand how anyone can consider a G13 +10 pair of daggerz as serious in PvP if it were +12 then yea but +10? Really that dmg is sucky. And you're comparing a farming sin build to a wizzie built to dd in tw.

Sins are regarded as useless in tw and only significant in 1v1 pvp.

If you CS then its easy for any class. When you farm your own gear as a sin starting with 2 aps r8 +3 and no one takes u in a sqd to do anything yea tell me again how easy it is to gear up a sin?

Casters get into Caster sqds easily with R8+3 and can easily farm a crapload of coin. Before you try to deny this on RT this is a fact. How do i know?

Cuz the amt of friends I have with tht same gear tht end up farming way more than me really makes me sad. Stop QQing and quit or live with the game as it is.

Gratz to the OP with those sexi dagz!

Jaabg - Sanctuary · October 2012

Azizsixer - Raging Tide wrote: »

I don't understand how anyone can consider a G13 +10 pair of daggerz as serious in PvP if it were +12 then yea but +10? Really that dmg is sucky. And you're comparing a farming sin build to a wizzie built to dd in tw.

Gratz to the OP with those sexi dagz!

Thank you, i wasn't sure how to respond to that person. I was just at a loss of words.

Nurfed_You: If we assume caster = basic money making instance, r8 +3~+7 is all you need. As Azizsixer mentioned, a full r8 sin on the other hand will have issues with getting good vana squads without friends, faction. That just means casters are 5~8 times cheaper than sins to gear for caster vana b:chuckle. You added garnet gems into wizzy gear, but not your own, if you add equivelant amount gems in your own gear, that will be the equivelant cost of the "end game wizzy" in terms of sin. You kept a swindler for yourself, but went with cube for wizzy. If a cost really has to be compared, have to remove these issues.

The cost of the wizzy when put at the same lvl as sin comes out 900~1b. Not that much different from your sin, but far more OP for multiple instances. With some tweaks, that wizzy can solo the same instances that you can. They might have a harder time at it, might take a bit longer, but doesn't negate the fact that they can do it.

Btw, you can restat 8 points away from str into dex, and 2 each from vit, magic. But as i mentioned in my post, he went for max dex, so he went with g15/g16 helm. I presume you are a demon sin?

VKnightV - Lost City · October 2012

remove the interval and channeling entierly then we can talk.

idk why we need int for anything or just rewamp all skill for a 500% weapon damage so the wole 5aps dies alredy seriuly.

So_Wet - Sanctuary · October 2012

Amazing daggers congratz very OP, meh im happy with my 0.1 zerk g15s for now b:chuckle

BerserkBeast - Sanctuary · October 2012

augustfinknottle wrote: »

I'm pretty sure clerics are the cheapest class to make and be accepted into any kind of squad. People just go "LF Cleric for THIS OR THAT", "Hi, cleric here", "Invite". Noone ever asks for a cleric to link weapon or anything like that, and I'm pretty sure a cleric with a build as lame as this could do just fine in [almost] any instance, especially since clerics aren't required to solo a pavillion in a full warsong run, usually - it's common for them to get help with fire. They were not even required to heal in arma boss when noone knew about the glitch. Their job was only to rez people up to avoid a squad wipe. So, how much would that whole thing cost? Under 200mil, probably? Too lazy to do the math.

Actually that "lame" build isn't that bad at all, just a bit lower the average cleric I see iin my server maybe, but not lame o.O
And seriously, +5 R8 weapon its enough to heal pretty much anything.

Ok - Fastest Daggers

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