3rd cast nv claw hit harder then dagger

filipenogueras wrote: »

As everyone know dagger hit 1.25 aps base, and fist/claw 1.43 base, so naturally dagger have to hit a bit harder to keep the BALANCE.

But the new nirvana 3rd cast claw/fist hit harder than daggers.

So now bm have more hp, more resistance, aoes ( can't compare with sins... ) and now the best single target dmg, if sins still keep aggro will be because sins can use more dex than bms str, but anyway the dmg will be almost the same.

Its the first time that the BALANCE of fist/dagger is broke, and i'd like to know the reason.

1 target dmg is the only thing sins have better than the other class.

The latest updates have been unfavorable to the sins ...

I'm afraid that you give a similar BloodPaint of 10% to ranged dd on next expansion

and sadly only a hand full of bm will be able to get those fist so not really much of a problem right now b:surrender

sin been nr1 dd for a looong time maybe its a new path

aps is a joke of a glitch ppl have abused and made norm so if aps dies i would laugh and be so happy.

as for who will keep agro the most who cares its a fu cking glitch very much with r9 weapons do in pvp who cares

Wrong.

As you can see here and here, the dagger has a damage range of 754-1131 and the claw has 785-1063. That is, the dagger has an average DPH of 942.5 and the claw has 924. Since the two weapons refine identically, the dagger has better DPH.

Waiter: Hi, may I take your order?

Customer: Yes, I will have whatever it is that the OP is currently smoked with a side of steak.

Salari - Raging Tide wrote: »

Besides Oblazes links and math, even if the claws had a higher dph it would take alot to overcome bm/barbs higher req's to equip the weapon. If they wanted to really balance out the damage they could simply ajust the min stat requirements for the daggers, claws or both. I am not sure the basic damage skill off hand bm's get like sins dagger devo so even more tweeking might be needed for to ajust for the damage increase from those skills.

@ aps, it was here long before assasins came, it just became more popular after them arrived. Since this game is more end game devoted now, putting a cap on aps will not change much even if it is capped at 2.86 (atleast for the heavy geared chars).

ps is there a char that cant get 5aps besides a seeker?

Just pointing out that seekers can reach 5 aps if using recasted r8.
still don't agree its a good idea tho since it would be a bit like winning the paralympics.

Edit:
think the only classes that would truly be unable to reach 5aps would be psy and mystic. due to being class locked to weapons that cant have -int (as far as im aware and would be really supriced if im wrong on this)

Salari - Raging Tide wrote: »

Besides Oblazes links and math, even if the claws had a higher dph it would take alot to overcome bm/barbs higher req's to equip the weapon. If they wanted to really balance out the damage they could simply ajust the min stat requirements for the daggers, claws or both. I am not sure the basic damage skill off hand bm's get like sins dagger devo so even more tweeking might be needed for to ajust for the damage increase from those skills.

@ aps, it was here long before assasins came, it just became more popular after them arrived. Since this game is more end game devoted now, putting a cap on aps will not change much even if it is capped at 2.86 (atleast for the heavy geared chars).

ps is there a char that cant get 5aps besides a seeker?

The bolded section and your join date shows you not only don't know what you're talking about, but weren't around back then. I rarely post in these kinda crack-high threads, but from being around prior to the FF change, when fish came out, and a while after fish came out, I get irritated at these kinda remarks, as it misleads the newer people.

APS really did not fully catch on until much later. As a matter of fact, people weren't all that impressed with Sins until the APS craze started happening. It was a rarity to find bracers with -int, some people through you were crazy for using -int, and claw-BMs were the weirdos.

A couple of us used -int with our slow-axes, some of us did with swords, a few fist BMs did so as well. Pole only BMs were, and still are ****. Before the genie nerf there was a section of us that used Relentless courage to swing faster in every fight, in order to keep those pesky archers and wizards from getting aggro.

APS is not as much of a factor end game as people make it out to be. It's nice, it makes things easier - and so does BP. It's like the game on easy mode. But a cleric makes things easlier, as does Barb buffs, and some good ol Psy and Wizzies nuking the **** outta stuff. Venos using amp, Archers using bows...its good stuff.

BP (Aka the cheater buff) is really nice...but not *needed*. Sins are neat, but not as useful as the other classes in TW. They're pretty nice in instances...but not needed in any of them, not to mention pretty much just used for their buff in some instances.

It's different styles. Get over the Sin/APS QQ and Wah **** and just play. The game can be a lot of fun.

Caveat: Barbs are still screwed 92+ unless you're pullin cats.

Is it really weapon stats that put sins over BMs in dps? I though sins win because their main stat is dex and that increases damage two ways(damage modifier and crits) while adding strength to a BM only increases damage one way(damage modifier).

laloner wrote: »

Is it really weapon stats that put sins over BMs in dps? I though sins win because their main stat is dex and that increases damage two ways(damage modifier and crits) while adding strength to a BM only increases damage one way(damage modifier).

You're forgetting that due to weapon/armor stat requirements, a sin can go and have a build that's almost completely dex for a great increase in damage while someone using claws has to significantly lower the amount of str they can use and put it into dex since fist and claw weaponry has a higher dex requirement than str one. This leads to things like 500 dex all towards boosting weapon damage vs 360ish str. And that's before taking into account crit rate, damage modifiers, and so on.

Why do people always say bm have marrows?

When was the last time you saw a bm use marrow in a fight against boss, unless it was only mag or phy? You fight a phy boss with mag attack. Have phy marrow on during the attack, most likely one shot there.

You play on Lothranis, saw a bm on sanctuary this 2x with g16 int claws. When i asked him, he kept agro from most sins with a jones blessing. But seriously, why the fight over who takes agro? Why do you want increase your repair cost, hp, mp cost, chance of death? If someone is tanking be happy for it.

Most sins who are not OP will die at vana bosses if they steal agro simply because of bad pdef, mdef, low hp, but mostly from not playing a sin and using the skills.

Let me state this simply so people stop complaining, and the OP gets it. If you have OP gear on any class, you OP. If you are r9 +10~+12 mystic in vana with g13, 4~5 aps sins with +4~+6 refines. You will be stealing agro. If you are a 4~5aps sin with g15/r9 zerk daggers +10~+12, i doubt g16 claws can touch it. As you can see from the example, the weapons are the best available. They are refined to high lvls, of course people sins with +4 g13 5 aps, won't keep agro against such beasts.

Imagine r9 3rd cast wizzy +12 weapon, +12 sins will have a hard time keeping agro. All these people hit hard, if you think you are OP with you g11~g13 weapon refined to +5~+7, time for a reality check, there will always be a set of players with awesome gear that you don't know about, until you bump into them.

Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »

Wrong.

As you can see here and here, the dagger has a damage range of 754-1131 and the claw has 785-1063. That is, the dagger has an average DPH of 942.5 and the claw has 924. Since the two weapons refine identically, the dagger has better DPH.

This.

Not to mention that because most sins go pure dex their damage output and crit rate is much higher than bms because bms have to split str/dex.

-.- QQ moar not like they didn't make a g16 for daggers ijs and I'll take some of that steak thanx b:chuckle

/Closed for Necro.