Nirv Dual Axes 2nd cast Vs. 3rd cast

Zanir - Lothranis
Zanir - Lothranis Posts: 106 Arc User
edited September 2012 in General Discussion
Hello,

I did some looking and only saw stuff pertaining to claws and daggers mainly. I'm currently working towards my 2nd cast Nirv dual axes and was aiming for GoF, then they released the 3rd cast with 40 atk lvls and now I'm torn as to what I should be going for.

So my question here is:

Does anyone have any solid numbers as to what the damage comparison would be between the 2nd cast with GoF and the 3rd cast with the ideal stats (STR, Crit%, Atk lvl, etc)?

If I happened to miss a thread that already discussed this I'm sorry, but I'll admit that I certainly didn't feel like reading through every single one that came up when I did a search.
Post edited by Zanir - Lothranis on

Comments

  • Lolgasmic - Raging Tide
    Lolgasmic - Raging Tide Posts: 1,315 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    honestly, i'd go with the 3rd cast and skip 2nd cast gof

    first, getting gof is like a what, 12% chance?
    second, i'd rather take 70 attack levels (jones included) over something that depletes my health
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  • Cotillion - Dreamweaver
    Cotillion - Dreamweaver Posts: 671 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    Lolgasmic - Raging Tide wrote: »
    first, getting gof is like a what, 12% chance?
    2.5% according to pwdb
    Sac Strike has much, much higher chance.
  • OontzOontz - Dreamweaver
    OontzOontz - Dreamweaver Posts: 782 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    You're not going to kill anyone auto attacking with axes. G15 with GOF is the way to go. G16 is only good for aps and caster (they have nothing better to get outside of r8r/r92r).
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  • MiniST - Sanctuary
    MiniST - Sanctuary Posts: 604 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    OontzOontz - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    You're not going to kill anyone auto attacking with axes. G15 with GOF is the way to go. G16 is only good for aps and caster (they have nothing better to get outside of r8r/r92r).

    and only for aps if it's for pve. PVP, zerk> all.
  • Zanryu - Lothranis
    Zanryu - Lothranis Posts: 1,998 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    Man up and get R9 axes, best of both worlds.
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  • Sirrobert - Dreamweaver
    Sirrobert - Dreamweaver Posts: 3,395 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    Cotillion - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    2.5% according to pwdb
    Sac Strike has much, much higher chance.

    That's the chance to GET the addon on the weapon, not the chance for it to proc.
    Seriusly mate, even a tiny bit of thinking would tell you that GoF has a higher proc rate that Sac strike
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  • Salari - Raging Tide
    Salari - Raging Tide Posts: 2,102 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    Hard to say either way. Its really up to you. Personaly I will be going G16 once I finish reforging my r8 boots and wrists and also get the morias for the hp bonus you can get. 3x 350 hp or the 3x vit is nice. I know several that got those for the extra hp for pulling cata's. Thats alot of hp added.
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  • truekossy
    truekossy Posts: 7,021 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    2nd cast axes will be more useful or what axes do with GoF. If axes were a DPS weapon instead of for spike damage/AoE then third cast Nirvana would have an edge.
  • Olbaze - Sanctuary
    Olbaze - Sanctuary Posts: 4,242 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    GoF proc rate has been established at 20%.

    Sacrificial Strike would be 15%.
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  • PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver
    PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,507 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    Sirrobert - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    That's the chance to GET the addon on the weapon, not the chance for it to proc.
    Seriusly mate, even a tiny bit of thinking would tell you that GoF has a higher proc rate that Sac strike

    well, since we said "first, getting gof is like a what, 12% chance?" they are probably talking about the chance to get it and not the chance to proc...
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  • truekossy
    truekossy Posts: 7,021 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    Funny how everyone's kinda ignored OP's question in favor of discussing GoF/Sac Strike proc rate. b:laugh
  • shotwhointhewhat
    shotwhointhewhat Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    I think 40 atk levels will give more dps.
  • Cotillion - Dreamweaver
    Cotillion - Dreamweaver Posts: 671 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    Sirrobert - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    That's the chance to GET the addon on the weapon, not the chance for it to proc.
    Seriusly mate, even a tiny bit of thinking would tell you that GoF has a higher proc rate that Sac strike
    Wow >.>
    I thought he meant the chance to get the stat as an add-on..not the proc rate, since you know...this topic is about which weapon to get, so the chance of actually getting the GoF add-on would be a factor here. So I replied as such. Jeeez, relax.
  • Zanir - Lothranis
    Zanir - Lothranis Posts: 106 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    Thanks for the replies and no, getting GoF wasn't my concern. I've already put it in my mind that I'll most likely have to reroll multiple times. I was mainly looking for which pair of axes would be the best to have over-all (meaning great for PvP and PvE as I do TW and PvE things such as PV).
  • SWISSmafia - Harshlands
    SWISSmafia - Harshlands Posts: 2 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    id say go for the 3rd cast since its G16 and not 15 you'd get more damage with refines + with the extra 40 attack lvl (extra 40% on each hit) with the G16.... the time your 2nd cast axes proc you'd make the damage up. In other words 2nd cast it could proc on the first shot or it could proc on the 19th wr the G16 is 100% every hit you'll get an extra 40%
  • truekossy
    truekossy Posts: 7,021 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    Firstly, this is a necro. That aside, what you said only applies practically for PvE. For PvP situations, the 4x multiplier on a GoF/serk crit cannot be matched and is a huge factor. There's a reason why you want GoF on G15 Nirvana instead of people wanting the attack level add whenlooking for a PK weapon.
  • Quilue - Sanctuary
    Quilue - Sanctuary Posts: 5,787 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    Hmm...full R9 archers probably are at around 0.83-0.87 APS at best (depending on cape). R9 axes lag behind R9 bow by about 300 weapon damage at +12 refine, if you account for arrows, about 450 weapon damage. Yet dual axe starts at 0.83 aps. With full R9, -int tome, and -int cape, you can bump axe attack speed to 0.91/s, and BMs' lack of crit rate can be compensated by zerk. Overall, axe DPS shouldn't lag behind bow DPS by a lot.

    Ironically, barbs have -int on wrist and leggings as well, putting their max aps with full R9 at 1.18/s with -int tome and cape, and they have zerk as well. That is almost like R9 archers on Quickshot!

    My guess is you probably can auto attack a lesser geared target to death with axes, especially if you're a barb. By lesser geared I actually mean someone with not too many def levels. Obviously if someone is full geared with jades you would have to try a couple of times to roll some lucky zerk crits, but poking for purge and chain crits is pretty much how archers kill such targets anyway.
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  • kawaiijen
    kawaiijen Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    truekossy wrote: »
    Firstly, this is a necro. That aside, what you said only applies practically for PvE. For PvP situations, the 4x multiplier on a GoF/serk crit cannot be matched and is a huge factor. There's a reason why you want GoF on G15 Nirvana instead of people wanting the attack level add whenlooking for a PK weapon.

    While this is indeed a necro, I feel this can still be discussed further so I will leave it open for now.

    The sin would be the exception to this rule you applied as they are a aps class not a DPH class like the other melee classes.
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  • truekossy
    truekossy Posts: 7,021 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    KawaiiJen wrote: »
    While this is indeed a necro, I feel this can still be discussed further so I will leave it open for now.

    The sin would be the exception to this rule you applied as they are a aps class not a DPH class like the other melee classes.

    Sins are a bit awkward since they can potentially be either. In full R9 and chill they become a rather interesting DPH class... yet DPS is always an option they retain simply from dagger attack speed without even looking into their armor.
  • TheDan - Sanctuary
    TheDan - Sanctuary Posts: 3,495 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    2nd cast zerk > 3rd cast in PvP, not gonna explain my reasons with math, so you'll just have to take my word on it from experience.

    Spike damage is always better than average damage in PvP. 400% zerk crits will allow you to bypass charm ticks at half life whereas 40 attack levels won't. Not to mention with G15s you can still wear the +230 phys attack charms.

    G16 is utterly worthless unless it's for fists/claws. R8 recast adds outshine 40 attack level on any weapon besides those for APS.

    R9 axes are the best of both worlds though, so if you're planning on either, just save yourself the money and go R9.
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  • Hexalot - Dreamweaver
    Hexalot - Dreamweaver Posts: 871 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    truekossy wrote: »
    Firstly, this is a necro.

    Um... since when is a thread opened a little over 3 weeks ago considered a necro ?
  • kawaiijen
    kawaiijen Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    Hexalot - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Um... since when is a thread opened a little over 3 weeks ago considered a necro ?

    Any topic re-opened after 30 days is considered a necro, but there are exceptions to this rule. Such as if it is a legitimate inquire about the topic, if it is a guide, or if new information has been brought to the subject for re-discussion.
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  • Hexalot - Dreamweaver
    Hexalot - Dreamweaver Posts: 871 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    KawaiiJen wrote: »
    Any topic re-opened after 30 days is considered a necro, but there are exceptions to this rule. Such as if it is a legitimate inquire about the topic, if it is a guide, or if new information has been brought to the subject for re-discussion.

    Ah... July opening date. Sorry... mistook it for August.
  • truekossy
    truekossy Posts: 7,021 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    Hexalot - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Ah... July opening date. Sorry... mistook it for August.

    But at least there's a bit of extra discussion in it now and you're one of the few to answer OP so it's forgiven. b:pleased
  • CapnK - Sanctuary
    CapnK - Sanctuary Posts: 1,166 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    G16 outdamages G15 about 25% on average. G15 wins (barely) on a zerk, loses badly on all other hits.

    I like how people talk about zerk crits like they happen all the time. 20% chance of zerk, and then your crit chance - let's say 20% for a class that would be using dual axes. So that's only happening 1/25 of the time. I guess if two charmed barbs want to stand there hitting each other for a while the G15 might eventually win.

    Dan's point about attack charms is valid; I haven't done the math on those.
  • Jaabg - Sanctuary
    Jaabg - Sanctuary Posts: 2,256 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    When i lvled my apoc i have 2~3 rows full of 500 stacks of +230 attack charms. On an aps character they vanish in a jiffy. But if used with axes (g15 or lower) they will add a big boost. Image you are adding 3 extra garnet gems to your weapon. You can see that it will be a great addition to attack power.

    That being said, a proc rate is still randomish, in the sense it will only happen when it happens. Nothing i say will make it happen more or less. That is why if you do have gof, sac strike, be patient for it to proc. I know from my purge pole, some days first couple of hits, it procs. Other days, the buff wears off and the weapon still does not proc. In short, don't expect procs to happen, but rejoice with joy when they do proc b:laugh.
  • Quinnie - Heavens Tear
    Quinnie - Heavens Tear Posts: 314 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    i was sceptic to bout upgrading my barbs s2 axes to s3 . i dont regret doing it, i did lost some hp but my average dmg output is alot higher then i did with s2 i deal a good 2x more dmg wih my s3 then i did with s2. and even for pvp they are nicer then having sacri/gof s2 axes (due the +40 att lvl). +5 s3 axes got same/more base phys att as +10 s2 axes. i dont even miss the sacri of the s2 my s3 axes also saves me quite some pots/charm ticks.
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  • Salari - Raging Tide
    Salari - Raging Tide Posts: 2,102 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    CapnK - Sanctuary wrote: »
    I guess if two charmed barbs want to stand there hitting each other for a while the G15 might eventually win.

    b:chuckle
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  • Out_BM - Archosaur
    Out_BM - Archosaur Posts: 20 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    TheDan - Sanctuary wrote: »
    2nd cast zerk > 3rd cast in PvP, not gonna explain my reasons with math, so you'll just have to take my word on it from experience.

    Spike damage is always better than average damage in PvP. 400% zerk crits will allow you to bypass charm ticks at half life whereas 40 attack levels won't. Not to mention with G15s you can still wear the +230 phys attack charms.

    G16 is utterly worthless unless it's for fists/claws. R8 recast adds outshine 40 attack level on any weapon besides those for APS.

    R9 axes are the best of both worlds though, so if you're planning on either, just save yourself the money and go R9.

    Would hate to drag it out into a long back and forth compare this and compare that blah blah math blah blah you know but, I had G15 GoF axes, turned them in to G16, flat out the G16 do more base damage in general, and the hit as hard if not harder then the Zerk Crit did, (and yes both were +10) and not gunna deny the charms help but in pvp I'd rather go with the G16 if you're going nirvana axes that is basically because, out of the times you're gunna hit someone with the axes, They rarely zerked and almost never zerk crit in pvp. So with the G16 you're hitting constant damage at the same rate not hoping to god you get the zerk crit and do a bunch of damage, But anyone really into pvp I Totally agree go R9 in general it hits the same as G16 but it also zerks and zerk crits.
  • Rauldaman - Sanctuary
    Rauldaman - Sanctuary Posts: 132 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    CapnK - Sanctuary wrote: »
    G16 outdamages G15 about 25% on average. G15 wins (barely) on a zerk, loses badly on all other hits.

    I like how people talk about zerk crits like they happen all the time. 20% chance of zerk, and then your crit chance - let's say 20% for a class that would be using dual axes. So that's only happening 1/25 of the time. I guess if two charmed barbs want to stand there hitting each other for a while the G15 might eventually win.

    Dan's point about attack charms is valid; I haven't done the math on those.

    This


    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TheDan - Sanctuary
    2nd cast zerk > 3rd cast in PvP, not gonna explain my reasons with math, so you'll just have to take my word on it from experience.

    Spike damage is always better than average damage in PvP. 400% zerk crits will allow you to bypass charm ticks at half life whereas 40 attack levels won't. Not to mention with G15s you can still wear the +230 phys attack charms.

    G16 is utterly worthless unless it's for fists/claws. R8 recast adds outshine 40 attack level on any weapon besides those for APS.

    R9 axes are the best of both worlds though, so if you're planning on either, just save yourself the money and go R9.
    Would hate to drag it out into a long back and forth compare this and compare that blah blah math blah blah you know but, I had G15 GoF axes, turned them in to G16, flat out the G16 do more base damage in general, and the hit as hard if not harder then the Zerk Crit did, (and yes both were +10) and not gunna deny the charms help but in pvp I'd rather go with the G16 if you're going nirvana axes that is basically because, out of the times you're gunna hit someone with the axes, They rarely zerked and almost never zerk crit in pvp. So with the G16 you're hitting constant damage at the same rate not hoping to god you get the zerk crit and do a bunch of damage, But anyone really into pvp I Totally agree go R9 in general it hits the same as G16 but it also zerks and zerk crits.




    This too

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