A cleric without purify is like a wizard without Morning dew

Yulk_owns - Lost City
Yulk_owns - Lost City Posts: 936 Arc User
edited October 2012 in Cleric
I went into a random BH69 squad while I was grinding mobs near sirry wine camp, I asked for a cleric's purify level, he/she said it was to embarrassing to share, then it was a whisper as level 1, but everything else is leveled up (this is coming from a level 87 cleric, lol what?). I was being polite and made up an excuse and left the squad and being polite. I'm sorry, I am not looking to waste time on things I want to make quick efficiency for. At least the person was kind and honest, I'm sorry and yes I feel a bit guilty, but I have seen far too many people make bad mistakes and not learn from it. So any cleric out there, you can't AOE mobs that do DOT with a level 1 purify unless you have OP gear, and you certainly can't be helpful in certain areas where purify is really needed and you are not using it. So please do level your purify before dealing with certain situations please, thanks.
I, II and III spark is the most cheesiest skill in PWI and it should be removed or massively nerfed.

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Post edited by Yulk_owns - Lost City on

Comments

  • Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands
    Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands Posts: 7,231 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    It's the ress they need to let at lvl 1. b:chuckle
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  • Decus - Dreamweaver
    Decus - Dreamweaver Posts: 5,033 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    I did fb 69 (no BH's then) with just level 5 purify. I never found a need to level it more and no one ever asked me or noticed it b:chuckle b:shutup
    Proving that not only archers do math since 2009. b:victory
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  • SMASHnHEAL - Dreamweaver
    SMASHnHEAL - Dreamweaver Posts: 400 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    Yulk_owns - Lost City wrote: »
    So any cleric out there, you can't AOE mobs that do DOT with a level 1 purify unless you have OP gear, and you certainly can't be helpful in certain areas where purify is really needed and you are not using it. So please do level your purify before dealing with certain situations please, thanks.

    Your point is no longer valid as people never AOE mobs anymore and only aps them to death one by one. Add in the fact that most people have hypered to well past level 89 - they should triple spark to purify themselves...

    In all seriousness, yes purify should be levelled higher than level 1. A good cleric however can potentially deal with most situations in game with low level purify if their timing is spot on b:shutup
  • Sakubatou - Sanctuary
    Sakubatou - Sanctuary Posts: 4,001 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    Level 5 purify is whats needed as a minimum. Bosses can debuff about every 10 seconds and its needed for them, so 8 second cooldown + 2 seconds channel and cast works fine. And thats... 140.8k for levels 1-5? 857k to get it to 10.

    For aoeing, theoretically the barb should be holding aggro until the mobs are almost dead. Sure, other people may get poisoned near the end but it wont be stacked like it is on the barb. Purify the barb and give the others an IH. A HoT to combat the DoT.

    Since many people start FCCing at 80, though, Purify does become a must around then. Ofc for the bubble, but also squad sleeps or a combo of the two. A leveled up Purify is more needed for FCCing than it is for BH69 or zhenning.
    Seven 100+ characters leveled the hard way. Free to play. Mystic, Psychic, and Wizard left to level. b:victory
  • Oliiander - Lost City
    Oliiander - Lost City Posts: 393 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    Spider grinding = Pretty much sole source of income.
    Income = Decent gear
    Decent gear = Accepted into squads
    Squads = Experience and knowledge of role
    Knowledge of role = Successful cleric

    Quick purify is vital for pulling spiders.

    Ergo, Purify at a decent level is important to being a decent clericb:pleased
    (Then again, of the clerics I know, only I consider grinding as my bread and butter)b:surrender
    My squishiness is (Usually) unrivaled.
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  • Decus - Dreamweaver
    Decus - Dreamweaver Posts: 5,033 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    Oliiander - Lost City wrote: »
    Ergo, Purify at a decent level is important to being a decent clericb:pleased

    Idk I used to AoE grind Pettalis (or however it was spelled) with my dinky level 5 purify and did just fine. Spiders are higher level, but so is the grinder, so I don't see it as a vital necessity. I'm biased, though :3
    Proving that not only archers do math since 2009. b:victory
    Current math challenge: pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1029711&page=45
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    "Any skills that can be used to kill you will interrupt BB when successful." -truekossy | "...Sage archers are kind of like Mac owners. They are proud of the weirdest and most unnecessary things." -Aesthor | "We ALL know Jesus doesn't play PWI. He may have suffered a lot for humanity, but he'd NEVER punish himself this way." -Abstractive | "I approve of bananas." -SashaGray
  • Oliiander - Lost City
    Oliiander - Lost City Posts: 393 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    Decus - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Idk I used to AoE grind Pettalis (or however it was spelled) with my dinky level 5 purify and did just fine. Spiders are higher level, but so is the grinder, so I don't see it as a vital necessity. I'm biased, though :3

    That was in the spirit of things, but to be perfectly honest, a well timed Nullify Poison is usually my saviour >.>
    (Or maybe, impatient me should just pull smaller groups of the creepy crawlies.)
    After much abuse in BH69 for having only a measly Level 8 Purify, I think I've come to embrace it a little more than your average cleric._.
    My squishiness is (Usually) unrivaled.
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    Finally decided to give Olii her own banner.b:chuckle
  • Nowitsawn - Heavens Tear
    Nowitsawn - Heavens Tear Posts: 4,864 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    When I first got Purify many years ago I was under the impression that it might just be one of the most influential skills in the game, I guess many new clerics seem to disagree...
    Oliiander - Lost City wrote: »
    That was in the spirit of things, but to be perfectly honest, a well timed Nullify Poison is usually my saviour >.>
    (Or maybe, impatient me should just pull smaller groups of the creepy crawlies.)
    After much abuse in BH69 for having only a measly Level 8 Purify, I think I've come to embrace it a little more than your average cleric._.

    Faith is also a lifesaver, but it requires a rather unusual genie skill build due to it hogging so many affinity points. What a lot of people don't know (which is understandable since it's not in the description) is that on top of immunizing you to every single debuff possible, it also purifies you.
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  • Elvarin - Dreamweaver
    Elvarin - Dreamweaver Posts: 52 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    Yulk_owns - Lost City wrote: »
    A cleric without purify is like a wizard without Morning dew
    You mean like a Fire-type or Earth-type Wizard?

    No, THIS is why PWI sucks. No freedom to specialize within classes. Hell, not even BMs have any freedom nowadays. b:surrender

    Edit: Excuse the off-topicness.
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  • Prophete - Dreamweaver
    Prophete - Dreamweaver Posts: 283 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    Honestly, lvl 1 purify is more than enough for bh69 -__-

    I remember when I did my first bh 69, I was reading advice on the forum, and everyone was saying lvl 1 purify was enough for bh69, and that you only needed to level it higher later, for TT and stuff.
  • Sakubatou - Sanctuary
    Sakubatou - Sanctuary Posts: 4,001 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    Prophete - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Honestly, lvl 1 purify is more than enough for bh69 -__-

    I remember when I did my first bh 69, I was reading advice on the forum, and everyone was saying lvl 1 purify was enough for bh69, and that you only needed to level it higher later, for TT and stuff.

    I'd agree that it should be fine... assuming nothing goes wrong.
    And also FCCing starts at the same time as BH69ing, and since you do need higher level purify for FCC I'd expect a cleric to have it in BH69 also.
    Seven 100+ characters leveled the hard way. Free to play. Mystic, Psychic, and Wizard left to level. b:victory
  • Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands
    Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands Posts: 7,231 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    Decus - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Idk I used to AoE grind Pettalis (or however it was spelled) with my dinky level 5 purify and did just fine. Spiders are higher level, but so is the grinder, so I don't see it as a vital necessity. I'm biased, though :3
    Prophete - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Honestly, lvl 1 purify is more than enough for bh69 -__-

    I remember when I did my first bh 69, I was reading advice on the forum, and everyone was saying lvl 1 purify was enough for bh69, and that you only needed to level it higher later, for TT and stuff.

    I kinda agree that at level 8x, a cleric can do fine with a level 5 purify, when it's the first char people don't realize it's a really important skill. Genereally just let know the cleric he should level it max as soon as possible.
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  • FatherTed - Dreamweaver
    FatherTed - Dreamweaver Posts: 3,723 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »
    I'd agree that it should be fine... assuming nothing goes wrong.
    And also FCCing starts at the same time as BH69ing, and since you do need higher level purify for FCC I'd expect a cleric to have it in BH69 also.

    Unless the cleric doesn't FC, in which case level 5 is just fine at that level.

    As to the OP's point, yes a lvl 80ish cleric should have leveled his purify more by then.

    That said, a level 80ish squad with any half decent tank should be able to take bh69 handily even with a lvl 1 purify.
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  • Xainou - Sanctuary
    Xainou - Sanctuary Posts: 5,369 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    Pretty damn shady. That cleric knew it's low as hell but didn't level it?

    Oh nevermind, Yulk thread. b:laugh
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  • Dispelle - Harshlands
    Dispelle - Harshlands Posts: 32 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    I'd have to agree that Purify really should be levelled to at least 5. It's possible, ofc, to do successful bh69 runs with a lvl 1 Pur, but I'm afraid a cleric would need to depend a lot on very smooth runs. A good cleric should be able to manage a rather "interesting" squad as well (assuming said cleric is not drunk, sleep deprived, etc).

    When you get 2 chars fighting for aggro on a boss (i.e. barb/bm vs sin), your perfect timing with your lvl 1 Purify might not be happening so well. You might still be able to do it, but let's just get that Purify up, if for no other reason than for the peace of mind of yourself and others. b:thanks
  • Decus - Dreamweaver
    Decus - Dreamweaver Posts: 5,033 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    Dispelle - Harshlands wrote: »
    I'd have to agree that Purify really should be levelled to at least 5. It's possible, ofc, to do successful bh69 runs with a lvl 1 Pur, but I'm afraid a cleric would need to depend a lot on very smooth runs. A good cleric should be able to manage a rather "interesting" squad as well (assuming said cleric is not drunk, sleep deprived, etc).

    When you get 2 chars fighting for aggro on a boss (i.e. barb/bm vs sin), your perfect timing with your lvl 1 Purify might not be happening so well. You might still be able to do it, but let's just get that Purify up, if for no other reason than for the peace of mind of yourself and others. b:thanks

    If that's the case, I'd just let the sin die. :P
    Proving that not only archers do math since 2009. b:victory
    Current math challenge: pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1029711&page=45
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    "Any skills that can be used to kill you will interrupt BB when successful." -truekossy | "...Sage archers are kind of like Mac owners. They are proud of the weirdest and most unnecessary things." -Aesthor | "We ALL know Jesus doesn't play PWI. He may have suffered a lot for humanity, but he'd NEVER punish himself this way." -Abstractive | "I approve of bananas." -SashaGray
  • Dispelle - Harshlands
    Dispelle - Harshlands Posts: 32 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    Lol, well yes, there's always that option too. b:chuckle
  • Azizsixer - Raging Tide
    Azizsixer - Raging Tide Posts: 249 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    Decus - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    If that's the case, I'd just let the sin die. :P

    You made my day with that one! And i totally agree...a dead fish when rez'd (If you feel generous enough to rez them) can't take agro!

    My gf (a cleric) would leave me dead (if i took agro) til the boss was 1/4th hp then rez LOL

    I learned my lesson realllllllllllllyyyyyy quickly. haha
  • Mayfly - Dreamweaver
    Mayfly - Dreamweaver Posts: 6,094 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    As I said in another Cleric subforum thread recently... an aggressive, low level assassin should have a "don't heal me" sign taped on his back... and for the purposes of this discussion, an 8x assassin vs. polearm or gaurnob is still low level. (An 8x BM or seeker is a safer, but still risky proposition on those bosses. Assassins at 8x don't have the HP pool of either of those, as a rule, to absorb the hits from those bosses when the debuff hits, and don't yet have the gains from bloodpaint to make up for it.)
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  • Sakubatou - Sanctuary
    Sakubatou - Sanctuary Posts: 4,001 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    Mayfly - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    As I said in another Cleric subforum thread recently... an aggressive, low level assassin should have a "don't heal me" sign taped on his back... and for the purposes of this discussion, an 8x assassin vs. polearm or gaurnob is still low level. (An 8x BM or seeker is a safer, but still risky proposition on those bosses. Assassins at 8x don't have the HP pool of either of those, as a rule, to absorb the hits from those bosses when the debuff hits, and don't yet have the gains from bloodpaint to make up for it.)

    Considering there are very few new players around you'll sometimes find highly refined alts with +10 items. Saying "don't heal a sin" isn't right because you may find a 10k sin in your squad, or a 13k level 80 bm.

    Talk to the squad, maybe check their gear or at least their hp in the squad list, and as awalys just be cautious.
    Seven 100+ characters leveled the hard way. Free to play. Mystic, Psychic, and Wizard left to level. b:victory
  • truekossy
    truekossy Posts: 7,021 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Considering there are very few new players around you'll sometimes find highly refined alts with +10 items. Saying "don't heal a sin" isn't right because you may find a 10k sin in your squad, or a 13k level 80 bm.

    Talk to the squad, maybe check their gear or at least their hp in the squad list, and as awalys just be cautious.

    This.

    I've loss count of the number of times my gamma level sin has tanked there while the barb/bm/seeker went splat due to either them having worse gear, cleric being bad, or some other factors. I've found that by about 5k HP a smart sin with a cleric that isn't stupid can tank... and if they carry apoth they can survive even with a cleric that IS stupid.
  • Cathulion - Dreamweaver
    Cathulion - Dreamweaver Posts: 235 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    I won't and don't ever expect Morning Dew to be worth learning whatsoever or anything to be compared to. The casting time is horrible. Sage rarely gives a full heal. It's not something that a wizzy should "have" to be good.
  • thumbs
    thumbs Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    Cathulion - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    I won't and don't ever expect Morning Dew to be worth learning whatsoever or anything to be compared to. The casting time is horrible. Sage rarely gives a full heal. It's not something that a wizzy should "have" to be good.

    Shouldn't have to learn it, but I've gotten a crapload of use from it especially before I made a cleric.
  • Baby_pho - Heavens Tear
    Baby_pho - Heavens Tear Posts: 636 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    um no a cleric w/o purify is like a wizzard w/o aoe. I dont even use morning dew when im on my wiz, maybe to get chi. wtf kinda wiz heal? >.>'
  • truekossy
    truekossy Posts: 7,021 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    Baby_pho - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    um no a cleric w/o purify is like a wizzard w/o aoe. I dont even use morning dew when im on my wiz, maybe to get chi. wtf kinda wiz heal? >.>'

    Sutra morning dews have saved me on multiple occasions from horrible clerics. Granted it's not as essential as Yulk makes it sound but... duh? It IS Yulk, after all.
  • mm2000
    mm2000 Posts: 218 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    truekossy wrote: »
    Sutra morning dews have saved me on multiple occasions from horrible clerics. Granted it's not as essential as Yulk makes it sound but... duh? It IS Yulk, after all.

    Isn't that exactly what he meant? Well, it makes morning dew essential because it saved you on multiple occasions meaning most of the time, so you're giving good points that he is right but saying he is wrong. So sage / demon MD with sutra is actually very useful. I kicked wizards from squads with level 1 morning dew in BH39 before because we did not have a cleric and it was an easy instance for a wiz to heal too.
  • truekossy
    truekossy Posts: 7,021 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    It's not a most of the time thing. Yes, it's happened multiple times and makes me happy to meet a competent wiz... but more often than not I have to keep myself alive on my own in situations where the cleric sucks. Yes, I'm aware of dew's ability to heal... but it also was never meant to be the main heal and is more designed to support a primary heal. Granted, I'm extremely happy when there's a wiz in squad that heals me better than the cleric. Just it's not a position the wiz should have to be in to begin with


    A better analogy would be comparing it to a wizard without stone barrier/glacial embrace/flame shield.
  • thumbs
    thumbs Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    truekossy wrote: »
    but it also was never meant to be the main heal and is more designed to support a primary heal.

    Lol? It works fine as a primary heal if healing a range tank particularly on an AoE boss like the second one from the last in Aba. I'd never consider it as support heal.
  • truekossy
    truekossy Posts: 7,021 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    thumbs wrote: »
    Lol? It works fine as a primary heal if healing a range tank particularly on an AoE boss like the second one from the last in Aba. I'd never consider it as support heal.

    The very fact you have if statements proves my point. I've tanked pole and nob at level 70 on an archer before back before genies and all that. Doesn't mean archers were meant to be the main tank in at-level instances.

    Like I said. Morning Dew shouldn't be underestimated. However that doesn't mean it's as essential to a wizard's role and class as... say... having their elemental masteries. It's not something I think should be ignored, but comparing it to purify is a bit much. Maybe the seals (and I mean freeze/sleep and not the defense debuffs) since, while wonderful, aren't strictly a bit"need" if your squad is good enough is a better comparison.

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