WB at Snowy Yesterday

The legal principle that applies to this case is pacta sum servanda and states that parties to any agreement are subject to the letter of contract. This is law in the overwhelming majority of countries in the world that have based their legal systems in the basic tenants of Roman law and Western legal tradition, no court of law in any of these countries will disregard pacta sum servanda unless the conditions set forth in the agreement are in breach of the country's laws, which is clearly not the case with PWI's ToS. Reductio ad absurdum and other forms of flawed analogy will not be heard by courts of law either, however popular they may prove in procedural tv dramas and political debate.

The ToS clearly states that actions contrary to the "enjoyment" of other users are bannable, and as "vague" as this may appear to some it really shouldn't be a problem for those exercising a healthy common sense, which could be argued to be prerequisite to anyone engaging in activities where they may contact in contact with the general public, MMO gaming included. As someone has mentioned earlier, it would be an unreasonable burden to require PWI to enumerate every possible action by a player that could be considered a bannable offense, but much as is the case with actual law, those in doubt may look for precedent in past decissions. Ignoratia juris non excusat is the principle that ignorance of the law does not excuse, and it certainly applies to agreements between private parties. This should all be pretty clear without resorting to any legalese however, and regardless of whether you consider it to be fair or not, it is abundantly clear that a) luring bosses into safe zones is a bannable offense, b) certainly anyone investing heavily in the game and at the relevant level range discussed here should be well aware of it.

One last thing by willfully violating the company's well acknowledged interpretation of ToS you're in breach of contract, and technically releasing the other party of any responsability it may have had towards you.

Yes, personally i find it hilarious for people to drag bosses into safe zones, even though i have had my character die as a result. However i would never do it and consider it a ridiculous extreme to try to defend it, Don't do the crime if you can't do the time.

Safe Zone means you're safe from being PKed by other players. In a lot of areas, like Cube, you can attack mobs and be attacked by mobs in Safe Zones, but not by players. Guards will also kill red named players in Safe Zones. It's just been part of the game...

TOS are generally very broad to give GMs plenty of wiggle room in their actions. Blizzard's TOS has this segment:

Nonetheless, certain acts go beyond what is "fair" and are considered serious violations of these Terms of Use. Those acts include, but are not necessarily limited to, the following:

(iii) Anything that Blizzard considers contrary to the "essence" of the Game.

A lot of MMOs have a clause that says they can suspend or remove your account for any and no reason as well. For example:

BLIZZARD MAY SUSPEND, TERMINATE, MODIFY, OR DELETE ANY BNET ACCOUNT OR WORLD OF ******** ACCOUNT AT ANY TIME FOR ANY REASON OR FOR NO REASON, WITH OR WITHOUT NOTICE TO YOU. For purposes of explanation and not limitation, most account suspensions, terminations and/or deletions are the result of violations of this Terms of Use or the EULA.

Guess you're not used to MMOs.

Termination of an account for no reason does not equate to getting jailed IRL for no reason. Having an account and playing a game on it is using a service. It just means you're being denied service, like getting kicked out of a bar.

KrittyCat - Dreamweaver wrote: »

None of us really give a flying wazoo about how much you or your friend spent on the game. All that matters is that you broke the rules... Most of us would actually like to see the rules enforced like this more often. *coughFFglitchcough*

Have fun fighting your war against PWE's ToS!b:bye

LOL well put Kritty

roflmao...

Come on, we all we had fun when luring Jewelscalen into the Valentine event. (heck, when I was playing my EP, Jewel was my battle pet for fighting in Silverpool to clear out the blue drop stealers.)

Is luring bosses to SZ wrong? yes.
Can you be banned for it? yes.
Is it fun? yes.

So man up, lure all you want but take the ban hammer as a badge of honor and move on. b:victory

KrittyCat - Dreamweaver wrote: »

None of us really give a flying wazoo about how much you or your friend spent on the game. All that matters is that you broke the rules... Most of us would actually like to see the rules enforced like this more often. *coughFFglitchcough*

Have fun fighting your war against PWE's ToS!

dj46661 wrote: »

My war?

One thing i will say is i may miss the game, but i wont miss the forums. Your nothing but an arrogant kiddy gamer with nothing better to do than to troll a forum that does not concern you in the slightest. Go get a life and i hope your banned because you just took my level of enjoyment to a lower level. As im sure was your intention.

Banning paying customers who unintentionally may have breached a very cryptic, interpretational TOS is the stupidest business model ive ever heard of and it will lead to a bankrupt company.
At this present time I hope that occurs and all you brown nosed hyper babies loose everything you have invested, be it money time or both.

dj46661 wrote: »

Haha MANray thats what we call "LAWYERED" Nice one.

Allow me to "lawyer" it up for you some more. Asterelle makes a good point in that you cannot renounce certain rights as a consumer even if you do agree to an otherwise binding contract, and i did state in my previous post that agreements cannot be made in violation of a country's laws. However the example used is a very different one to the scenario we are currently discussing; if this was ever to show up in court for litigation the representatives of either PW or the industry would argue that it would set a very dangerous precedent to limit a company's ability to deal with disruptive influences in the communities they manage, bringing perhaps some special attention to the fact that a large part of their users are minors. They may even bring in some parents' advocacy group that equates griefing with bullying. Now, no judge is ever going to walk into that trap to side with a nerdraging and likely unsympathetic player who spent on a video game what most people would consider an obscene amount of money, much less when standing legal doctrine makes it perfectly clear the company is well within its right to deny service.

Now, you claim both you and your friend were unaware this action was in violation of ToS and that you would have to read ridiculous amounts of forum posts to understand something as "cryptic". But this is not entirely accurate, i first encountered this situation playing as a 2x and numerous time afterwards while leveling up. This is the sort of thing you eventually talk about in guild chat or with your friends, people who actually play the game will be made aware of this at some point before reaching high levels. Of course if you power leveled to 100 within a week you wouldn't know this, and certainly this is consistent with the patterns followed by certain "heavy" CSers. Not to worry, there actually is a precedent working for your "friend" here; if he really is a heavy CSer (I'm talking sinking a couple of G's into a toon, not just a few hundred bucks) then chances are his ban will not be made permanent. There'll be some e-mails exchanged, a slap in the wrist so to speak, and your friend showing up again unable to discuss his "temporary" ban. The expectation here is PW will honor long standing policies...

dj46661 wrote: »

There is also another option not discussed here. I will allow my friend to go thru this process before laughing in PWI's Face. BTW i dont give a flying wazzoo who Kritty is ,was or pretends to be. He is an ignorant ****** afaik.
I will not be discussing this issue here again, im taking this entire forum and posts to another website to have the discussion with adults and people who dont lick PWI *** daily.

FFS people NO FRUCKING WHERE in the TOS does it discuss or say that luring would be against the rules. Yet PWI ban for breach of said TOS. Go get a life and stop trolling everyone who disagrees with your Perfect World. Bunch of Pussys!

I'm going to give you a nice warm glass of shut the **** up.

And yet another troll grows fat, happy, and smelly off this forum. 8 pages of this BS, will you guys never learn to not feed the trolls?

CroPsy - Heavens Tear wrote: »

ROFLMAO
Can I enter your house then, and steal everything? I mean, there is no sign on your house that says "Don't enter if you don't have key" or "Don't break a window and enter".

Haha that one make me laught. xD

_Nerox_ - Dreamweaver wrote: »

HAHHA in ur face, I hope it was perma ban xD

Lol.

I agree with the person who said the OP is just a fail troll. b:shocked

I think together with the term common sense also comes to be able to see what others might hold as common sense. Therefor the claim that it is a personal thing becomes kinda weak in my eyes. Sorry.

If they added everything that warranted a ban into the ToS it would be a very very long list of things and it also means that if they missed something they wouldnt have grounds to ban anyone for it until it is in put in the ToS. It would also mean that they wouldnt be able to give anyone a second chance if a mistakes happens like in your case. If they said something was 100% bannable they would need to uphold it every time wihout exceptions.

I hope you understand that it would be impossible to do what you are requesting and that it would be kinda stupid to dig a hole like that for themself.

SpiritDivine - Sanctuary wrote: »

I think together with the term common sense also comes to be able to see what others might hold as common sense. Therefor the claim that it is a personal thing becomes kinda weak in my eyes. Sorry.

In your argument, you just confirmed that "common sense" does not exist. If people have a "sense" in "common", that means we both hold the same sense. I should not have to try to determine what someone else's "sense" might be--it is in common. If he has a certain "sense", I will have the same sense as well. The fact that his idea of "common sense" can differ from mine, immediately negates the whole concept of "common sense".

If they added everything that warranted a ban into the ToS it would be a very very long list of things and it also means that if they missed something they wouldnt have grounds to ban anyone for it until it is in put in the ToS. It would also mean that they wouldnt be able to give anyone a second chance if a mistakes happens like in your case. If they said something was 100% bannable they would need to uphold the rules in the
TOS every time wihout exceptions.

I really don't think the list of bannable offenses would be all that long. As far as missing
something, of course they could still ban for it, since PWI can do anything they want
at any time. That line in the TOS about "interfering with others' enjoyment of the game"
or however it's stated--that pretty much covers everything. And as far as not being able
to give anyone a second chance, again--PWI can do anything they want at any time.
The same goes for your last line above. (lol, think about the frost glitchers--that WAS
something that was specifically stated as bannable in the TOS. Yeah, sure they uphold
the rules in the TOS everytime without exception.)

I hope you understand that it would be impossible to do what you are requesting and that it would be kinda stupid to dig a hole like that for themself.

I know it is far from impossible to do what I'm requesting. Quite easy in fact.
And any holes they leave are totally covered by that general warning in the TOS.

(again, mainly a spam bump)

dj46661 wrote: »

There is also another option not discussed here. I will allow my friend to go thru this process before laughing in PWI's Face. BTW i dont give a flying wazzoo who Kritty is ,was or pretends to be. He is an ignorant ****** afaik.
I will not be discussing this issue here again, im taking this entire forum and posts to another website to have the discussion with adults and people who dont lick PWI *** daily.

FFS people NO FRUCKING WHERE in the TOS does it discuss or say that luring would be against the rules. Yet PWI ban for breach of said TOS. Go get a life and stop trolling everyone who disagrees with your Perfect World. Bunch of Pussys!

Hate too tell ya there BlowHard....b:pleased


But most of us who've been attempting discussions with you on your friends situation, all have Histories for suspensions in the game (Some have had it more then (once or twice) Easily, you TaRd!!!b:dirty


And some like Me are Historically Known as MAJOR THORNz in {PWis} BaCkSiDeZ, on things like the still (No-Comped/ Redressed & Rebalanced) FC glitch Debacle BS!!!b:fatb


So the only one whos acting like a self-righteous PuzzY is you....b:victory


Especially, by not getting what you want & then running away too another site, rather then hearing the masses tell you (all in unison; no matter what their opinions are of each other!!!!!)


that what you and your friend did, was WRONG!!!



So get over it, and yourself (Because your boring us all too tears at this point, with your BS Mouth & Attitude) FORUMS are supposed to be venues for Civil Discourse (and not in the WAR of the Whiney Azz'd Mouths of Attrition)..b:sin.........byeee! Byeeeeee!!


PS: Since all your now doing on your own thread is Copping an Attitude towards everyone else now; I seriously hope they Lock your thread and deep-six it, Since you've decided too take your own thread into a full on flamer~against all the other forum posters...

Maybe you can self-righteously Whine to {PWis} officials, about how they have no right to do that 1 too........

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