Frenzy vs Extreme Poison

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Buff_me - Raging Tide
Buff_me - Raging Tide Posts: 252 Arc User
edited September 2012 in Assassin
Ive started doing alot of solo FCs lately and wondering which skill of those 2 is better. Ive got a 71+ LP genie so i can grab both skills, but i think that one of those is extra.

Which would u advice me to use, or maybe both? Explain it to a noob sin pls :D
Post edited by Buff_me - Raging Tide on

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  • WnbTank - Archosaur
    WnbTank - Archosaur Posts: 1,472 Arc User
    edited August 2012
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    depends what you wanna do with the genie. Frenzy for CoA(EP wont work) and AoEing when you got immunities/wont get hit. For rest EP is better.
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  • Nowitsawn - Heavens Tear
    Nowitsawn - Heavens Tear Posts: 4,864 Arc User
    edited August 2012
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    EP:
    +Grants you more damage when you have 1 or more attack levels.
    +No side-effects
    +No cooldown
    +Lasts longer when you have over 20 DEX
    +Costs less energy
    -Some bosses are immune (but not in FC)

    Frenzy:
    +Lasts longer when you have less than 20 DEX


    All in all, EP is a much better choice if you have to pick one or another. They both have a fairly low energy cost and you can use them simultaneously when you have more than 25 VIT on your genie.
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  • Olbaze - Sanctuary
    Olbaze - Sanctuary Posts: 4,242 Arc User
    edited August 2012
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    Nowitsawn - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    EP:
    +Grants you more damage when you have 1 or more attack levels.
    +No side-effects
    +No cooldown
    +Lasts longer when you have over 20 DEX
    +Costs less energy
    -Some bosses are immune (but not in FC)

    Frenzy:
    +Lasts longer when you have less than 20 DEX

    All in all, EP is a much better choice if you have to pick one or another. They both have a fairly low energy cost and you can use them simultaneously when you have more than 25 VIT on your genie.

    Good points, but you missed one thing: Frenzy is totally **** if you're using Jones.

    EP is +20%. Frenzy is +20% if you have 0 attack levels. If you have 5 (e.g. Nirvana set bonus), then Frenzy is +19%. If you have 13 (e.g. Nirvana + attendance), then Frenzy is +18%. If you have a Jones, then Frenzy is +15%.

    And Frenzy also costs more energy and beats the **** out of your defenses. And the energy cost is pretty crucial, as you can use EP on every cycle of your sparking, whereas Frenzy is limited to at most once every two sparks.

    About the only good thing with Frenzy is that it stacks with either Power Dash or Subsea. But then again you should be stacking Subsea with Tangling Mire to begin with.
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  • Buff_me - Raging Tide
    Buff_me - Raging Tide Posts: 252 Arc User
    edited August 2012
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    Thanks for replys. Seems only use of Frenzy is on non-EPable bosses and in nirvana.
  • _Skai_ - Raging Tide
    _Skai_ - Raging Tide Posts: 3,407 Arc User
    edited August 2012
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    I stack Subsea with Mire and Frenzy :D

    I also like the use of Frenzy in PvP when you're in an immune state. The extra attack levels can make quite a dent in people sometimes.
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  • Empu - Sanctuary
    Empu - Sanctuary Posts: 1,154 Arc User
    edited August 2012
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    Nowitsawn - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    EP:
    +Grants you more damage when you have 1 or more attack levels.
    +No side-effects
    +No cooldown
    +Lasts longer when you have over 20 DEX
    +Costs less energy
    -Some bosses are immune (but not in FC)

    Frenzy:
    +Lasts longer when you have less than 20 DEX
    +Self buff (which is great cause in squad it's very likely that someone will use EP)
    -The defence counter-effect makes it bad on soloing unless your buffed (when having cleric and bm buff, it's barely noticeable)

    Added something to Frenzy, cause for the rest it already stated it all.

    @Olbaze : look at his 1st point on the EP list b:chuckle
  • _Skai_ - Raging Tide
    _Skai_ - Raging Tide Posts: 3,407 Arc User
    edited August 2012
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    Frenzy is also useful in events where your damage alone is more important. EP in let's say the Tiger event every Monday would amp the boss, thus amping all damage of everyone attacking the tiger, thus giving them more contribution points.

    Whereas when you self-buff yourself with Frenzy, you'll increase your damage output by something, while not benefiting others, just so you can do every so slightly better.

    On top of that, someone else could/would mire/EP during those times, thus benefiting you even more.
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  • Tsyren - Archosaur
    Tsyren - Archosaur Posts: 78 Arc User
    edited August 2012
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    I actually used Olbaze's formulas that he sent me, and decided to go with Frenzy (due to my build benefiting more from it than other amp combinations).

    But this is just out of curiosity, Skai, you say you shouldn't amp when you are competing with others in an event - if you have the highest dps, wouldn't you benefit most from amping? To multiply the gap between you and your competition?
    And btw, I AM assuming those +12 R9s grab aggro quite a lot in events.
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  • Geshwur - Raging Tide
    Geshwur - Raging Tide Posts: 570 Arc User
    edited August 2012
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    Personally I have all 3 (Including Mire) that I use as a combination (86 LP genie), however I have noticed that frenzy is next to useless for my DPS and the majority of the time the cost/effect doesn't pan out for me due to my already high attack level, but as Skai mentioned, any SELF damage increase is useful for events like tigers/CoA.

    Overall I highly prefer EP + Mire to Frenzy + Mire alone, I will always use EP over Frenzy if I have to choose only ONE of them, except in contribution based event situations.
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  • _Skai_ - Raging Tide
    _Skai_ - Raging Tide Posts: 3,407 Arc User
    edited August 2012
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    Tsyren - Archosaur wrote: »
    I actually used Olbaze's formulas that he sent me, and decided to go with Frenzy (due to my build benefiting more from it than other amp combinations).

    But this is just out of curiosity, Skai, you say you shouldn't amp when you are competing with others in an event - if you have the highest dps, wouldn't you benefit most from amping? To multiply the gap between you and your competition?
    And btw, I AM assuming those +12 R9s grab aggro quite a lot in events.

    Theoretically yes, but at the same time others would be amping/miring for you, so Frenzy is usually the choice of genie skill for that event. It really doesn't do me that well, as I have 79 attack levels with my APS gear on, so Frenzy-ing to 99 isn't that much of a boost, but it's still a self-buff.

    And yup! Unless there's another R9+12 4aps sin with me, I always have agro.
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  • Buff_me - Raging Tide
    Buff_me - Raging Tide Posts: 252 Arc User
    edited August 2012
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    Well, i dont do CoA ot Tiger event due to my timezone. I am interersted in usefulness of those skills in fc. I can keep TM+EP+Frenzy same time on genie, but i might replace one of those with something more useful.
  • SteelStar - Heavens Tear
    SteelStar - Heavens Tear Posts: 469 Arc User
    edited September 2012
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    I personally have both on my Sin's genie, and the make a nice combo.
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  • So_Wet - Sanctuary
    So_Wet - Sanctuary Posts: 69 Arc User
    edited September 2012
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    EP to frenzy really helps in fc for them bosses that take 1 spark quick and easy all in or under 15 seconds.
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  • Olbaze - Sanctuary
    Olbaze - Sanctuary Posts: 4,242 Arc User
    edited September 2012
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    So_Wet - Sanctuary wrote: »
    EP to frenzy really helps in fc for them bosses that take 1 spark quick and easy all in or under 15 seconds.

    EP and Frenzy is more of a Demon thing, I believe. Sages would prefer Subsea over Power Dash, leading to EP being useless. Also, unlike Demons, Sages have Windshield as a potential Amp that gives anywhere between 14% and 25% more damage. Certainly preferable over the 10-20% that Frenzy would give.

    For example, my Genie is built around Mire + EP + Windshield as my highest damage combo. Sadly, I don't have Sage Subsea yet so Mire + Windshield with Subsea just pales in comparison to Power Dash. Though, I prefer phasing out my debuffs over a longer cycle. Mire + Subsea and EP + Power Dash.
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