Gender in PWI

Currant - Dreamweaver · August 2012

Tonight I was feeling particularly ponderous about the notion of gender in PWI. A lot of people believe that gender no longer exists when we enter digital spaces. Some people believe it is reflected in how we relate to others within these digital spaces. In my in PWI and other MMOs, the latter has been true. What do you all think? Can we truly "erase" our gender in a digital space if we try? Or are we always going be acting out some form of gender roles ingrained in us by society?

Anyhow, I was wondering what the PWI community thinks of all of this. I'm curious as to what other people's experiences with the presence of gender (or lack thereof) in PWI have been like.

Thanks!

Breannak - Raging Tide · August 2012

I myself don't look at gender I look for personality, when you play the game I don't really focus gender because its not important. I'm part of the people who do believe that gender doesn't exist.

Bunny_slayer - Harshlands · August 2012

generally, i think the toons do mask the players' gender to a certain extent but there are some hints that could give a player's sex away, for one thing male players swear a lot more and most discussions somehow revolve around beer and boobies b:chuckle also, i observed there's that maternal instinct commonly exhibited by female players specially when they're playing clerics.

VenusArmani - Dreamweaver · August 2012

I really don't think it would surprise anyone that knows anything about me to learn that I am a female. As for gender in-game, I think it does relate somewhat to game if you're "dating" others in-game. Since some people become upset when they learn that the person whose toon they married is the same gender as they are IRL. It can cause some friction, with some people feeling as though they've been deceived and led on. Other than that though, I don't really see it manifesting itself much. Cept maybe in char design and number of fashions owned, but even that isn't all that reliable an indicator.

crystalpink · August 2012

I don't really care about genders when it comes to Internet, especially online games, because we all can pretend to be any gender we'd like to be~ b:chuckle

Burnout - Harshlands · August 2012

The popular argument is that gender is a basic social construction that has been ingrained into us from day 1.

If you look at a baby, how can you really tell if its a boy or girl without inspecting it very closely? Society tells us that we put pink caps and shoes on baby girls and blue ones on boys. But if you were to go back ~110 years into the early 1900's, pink was associated with boys, and blue for women. But why? People back then thought pink was a lighter shade of red, and red stood for fierceness, strength, and ferocity. Those traits were still considered inappropriate for women and so people dressed boys in pink to let society know that he was male. Quite different from what it is now in 2012.

Since gender roles are immediately forced onto an individual from the moment he enters the world, it's impossible for us to not assign gender into everything we do. It's invisible because we've lived with it our whole lives. When a baby boy gravitates toward something feminine, parents disapprove and discourage, yet those are just the baby boy's natural urges/instinct. Why deny it? Because we insist on defining male and female.

This is no different when you enter PWI. Your mind immediately reacts differently based on whether you see a male or female avatar, and it is only through conscious thinking that we can force ourselves to think of a female avatar as male IRL. Despite that, the thought of males playing females or females playing males is still disturbing to a lot of people. Consider that many males justify playing females by assigning a masculine reason for it - They want to play the game while seeing female ****/butts.

If a male explicitly states he plays female avatars just because he desires to play a female toon in and of itself, it's immediately viewed as "weak", "weird", or whatever. Yet I wouldn't be surprised if this was really a significant factor why males choose female avatars. Again, this is because we cannot avoid assigning gender to everything we do. It's ingrained into us from day one.

...of course this is just one theory. There's plenty others that may be just as right.

....Also are servers back up yet? >.>

_blood_rain - Sanctuary · August 2012

I think as long as there are gender roles ingrained in us by society, we will continue to act them out no matter what environment we are in. This does not mean that we will act out the roles of our real life genders, nor does it mean that we will act out "conventional" roles for whichever gender we act out(on a slightly more complicated level).

I play one of the characters most commonly played as female by people who are male irl. People often assume I am a male, I don't know if it's necessarily because I play a female archer or if it's because of the way I act(likely always a combination of the two), but honestly I don't mind what they believe. I may unintentionally play into some gender role(like everyone else), but I do not get insulted if people gasp when they find out I'm female, or if people ask me if I'm male(sometimes I go along with it for ****s and giggles <.>), or even if people teeter on the edge- unsure what to think and almost too nervous to ask.

The bottom line is I don't care what gender people choose to perceive me as, nor do I care what the genders of other people are.

This realization that it didn't really matter to me came around when my main was a barbarian. I would constantly correct people who referred to me as "he", but after getting tired of correcting people I gave it some thought and realized...why should I care? \o/

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands · August 2012

I personally don't care what gender people are, if they are nice and smart it's enough for me.

I'm a girl i play female and male toons and generally people don't care if i play a male toon they just think it's funny and rare, sometime they will ask why.

lordhanzo · August 2012

don't really care, but if the relationship (as in friendship or whatever) has risen up and the other party really wanted to know which gender the other ones is, never lie about it.

if you intend to keep the relationship stays in cyber world only, then personally I wouldn't care what gender you are.

Phoenix_Eye - Heavens Tear · August 2012

i have been to a faction where my leader , one of the most kind helpful person which i considered a true friend hid his gender. It was just for fun to see if others would belive him and it worked. It didnt hurt my feelings (actually his personality later did but thats not the case). Because of this he abandoned the game never to be seen again.

No i dont really believe in pixel gender. I pick the gender of my toons completely according to their class. Healers are always male , rangers are always female , stealth classes always male etc.

But hiding your true identity , the one that sits behind the PC monitor yes. I'm opposite to that , cause i saw how it usually ends. Not good at al.

My main (archer) and my forum representative are both of female gender. I never hid the fact that i'm a boy , and always tried to correct others in case they got it wrong.

Real life and Virtual life shouldn't be merge .... in the end , nothing good come out of this at least for me.

Selak - Dreamweaver · August 2012

After studying Biochem at UNI I did learn one thing we do have differences in our Bio-morphology and these do lead to different ways of seeing our environment.

For example we were taught that females in general are able to see more shades of a color than a male, which is am advantage when looking for a particular plant in the surrounding environment,
where males have better detection of movement at the edge of their vision which is very useful for hunting and fighting.

And with this in mind shops now design their layouts to suit, female clothes are hung in packed racks to satisfy the need to forage, where as the mens sections usually have flashy lights and things laid out so you can quickly go to them, grab and then run, alot like hunting.

There are some very interesting studies than have been done on gender based Bio-morphology and the changes in both genders during development.

So where does that leave me personally, I am male and honestly at times I do not understand female logic at all, but I have learnt to trust it, as it is not the same as my own, and therefore females may see things I cannot, which may save my butt sometime.

I do not want to play female char could never do it justice, and I wonder about a persons honesty If they hide their RL gender in a game.

thumbs · August 2012

MMORPG -learn and live by the last half of it and quit trying to hook up on or bring things like RL human bowel movements into a game.

Azizsixer - Raging Tide · August 2012

I love how these kind of well thought out and deep topics pop up when servers go down LOL

For me I kinda agree with the genderless idea for online activities since its rather easy to role play either a male or female.

Agreed as well tht many males are obvious cuz of their boob/beer talk...but you'd be surprised how many females on RT are caught up on ****/beer/sex....esp when they get drunk on vent LOL

Personally, I tend to notice subtle gender differences and can usually tell soemone's irl gender, not that it really matters to me. An **** is still an **** whether they're male or female and can still be as much of a pain as anyone else lol

Personality ftw!

One of my close frnds in game is a fem-barb....ppl are always shocked to realize she's a girl playing a barb...humours me to no end when they're like "Well done bro....He was awesome..." And im like "She...her..." and then they're like "You're a girl??? For realll? *Starts flirting* -_____-

Selak - Dreamweaver · August 2012

thumbs wrote: »

MMORPG -learn and live by the last half of it and quit trying to hook up on or bring things like RL human bowel movements into a game.

Other RPG games quite often have fatigue systems, eating, sleeping and even running can affect your health and ability to fight, but are not needed for the pixels on the screen, they are added for the enjoyment of those who want a fuller experience from their game and do not need to rush to high levels.

And in game bowel movements sounds cool to me. b:chuckleb:laughb:laugh

Shandaar - Dreamweaver · August 2012

Azizsixer - Raging Tide wrote: »

One of my close frnds in game is a fem-barb....ppl are always shocked to realize she's a girl playing a barb...humours me to no end when they're like "Well done bro....He was awesome..." And im like "She...her..." and then they're like "You're a girl??? For realll? *Starts flirting* -_____-

I know that feeling XD. I'm female and I dualclient BM/seeker. Both are male chars. People tend to be shocked when they learn I'm female, and I've had to tell some to back off >_>. I play the game to play a game, I'm not there to hunt for guys. The other day I added some guy to my faction and we quickly (took about 5 mins) came on the "girl" topic. I said I was female, and his reaction was to PM me to add him on Facebook. Right.

But if I know the people... I don't mind the occasional flirt, and if there's sex-related talk in my fac, I'm def. a part of it (or I started it XD).

What I wonder, and I've never really been given an actual answer on that... is that whenever I see female players, they're mages. Most of them anyways. They're usually clerics/mystics with a barb boyfriend or husband, or venomancers. I do have a mystic alt (male avatar - he's like 72) and I know of two other women who play melee.

I don't know if it's because girls like to be present by their guys' side (the healer+tank combo), or because it's "naturally" a female role, or because they truly enjoy healing/casting spells rather than being up front. Or it could be something else.

KawaiiJen - Heavens Tear · August 2012

Instinctive behavior from males in general to help their opposite sex generally drives gender choices in this game as well for some.

Some females choose to be a male gender to be treated equally and not some damsel in distress that is incapable of doing things themselves. That or they don't want to be harassed by males seeking courtship all the time. As well as various other reasons.

The opposite can hold true for some males. They will make a character female just for that. Free stuff, things done/acquired easier because of it. Though some will choose because they enjoy looking at female pixels.

I can't directly say gender in a game matters until a relationship becomes involved. (Which IMHO should never happen because 95% of the time it ends VERY badly and affects more people then the initial two players)

Noel - Dreamweaver · August 2012

I don't involve IRL gender or pronouns in games, as I don't feel that they're appropriate, unless one is specifically referring to the player behind the character, in name and in context.

BerserkBeast - Sanctuary · August 2012

I would never mix virtual and real life together, if I want'ed to have a real life social relationship I would go outside not pretending to meet someone in real life from an online game(Especially since most of the times he lives on the opposite side of the planet).

I keep my relationships in-game only,you help'ed me doing X boss or getting X item - I can help you in return to get this or that,but never ask me anything outside the game,because I would deny to give out any personal info.

For the gender thing,I find ridiculous how people jump on conclusions.

Here's a typical conversation I had many times on female alts:

A:Are you a girl irl?
B:Can't say,private information.
A:Ok you're a male(99% of the times).

^Translation:Unless you get into your webcam showing me some boobies I'll always assume you're a boy.

Its like you have to prove you're a female while if you say you're a male people accept it right away w/o doubt.

Ancris - Archosaur · August 2012

Well I usually don't care about irl genders. After all, it's a game and in a game, good manners and skilled playing come from both sides. It's as easy for a female to be a pro player and a good person as it is for a male to be a sucky player and an @%$3 and vice versa. With that in mind, I play a girl char and I'm a guy. I only say my irl gender to my faction, if someone asks or tries to flirt and to good people that I don't want to have a misunderstanding with. Fortunately, I don't get a lot of flirting since my char isn't exactly made to be a sexy dynamite.

PS: I like collecting fashion sets, which may be kinda weird for a guy, cuz I want to have a variety of outfits and not be "just another sin"...

laloner · August 2012

Wraithgate 20x3 is the hardest quest for me to get help on, its like pulling teeth. Just 2 days ago we were going to start BH69 wined and a female toon said don't wine it yet I need the mobs. The squad went along and she got almost all of 20x3 despite several deaths including the cleric once. And this was a level 88 player obviously a frost baby for having the quest at such a high level. Don't tell me gender doesn't matter in games.

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands · August 2012

laloner wrote: »

Wraithgate 20x3 is the hardest quest for me to get help on, its like pulling teeth. Just 2 days ago we were going to start BH69 wined and a female toon said don't wine it yet I need the mobs. The squad went along and she got almost all of 20x3 despite several deaths including the cleric once. And this was a level 88 player obviously a frost baby for having the quest at such a high level. Don't tell me gender doesn't matter in games.

I personally don't care if the toon is a female or male, if someone ask me help i'll go if i can and want it, i know a lot of male playing female chars.

Someone i know in game play a male char and was speaking to get drunk, beer etc, i was sure was a guy 'til someone told me that was a girl, many girl speak about beer and drink it's not anymore a male thing to drink.

I know some male that did played female toons to pretend to be a girl and get free stuff until they realize they didn't felt comfortable in a convo about feeling with a male.

If people are stupid enough to think that female toons are play by girls and male toons by boys and help/give stuff to a female toon for that reason, it's call stupidity that's nothing to do with the gender, unless you say that boys are more stupid than girls. xD

Slegtst - Dreamweaver · August 2012

I want an a-sexual toon.

_Skai_ - Raging Tide · August 2012

Gender in online games doesn't really matter to me. Unless I know the person, talk with them often, then gender doesn't matter at all.

I play a female character, yet I'm male, but mainly because why not? Why not play as something you can never be/never were, and enjoy it?

Mekkhala - Lost City · August 2012

Im a girl and my 1st char was a male archer.

Was always interesting to see how shocked people were when finding out I was a girl, and how much differently I was treated.

Lucrecia - Momaganon · August 2012

Well, i dont care about the gender ingame but well ...

If im using TS i rather do it with some guys than with females (If I dont know them well of course), just because im not sure if i can use all words i want to use if someone caused a squad qipe xD im not angry, but sometimes you just a call a friend "Fail" or "as.s" in a funny way and im not sure if all girls are okay with that too.

And yeah, i have some problems with women 30+ ingame (age)xD Because always when im chatting to one, a discussion about children and modern roles of women begins >>

But if they dont act like children (guys and girls) then im okay with everyone

Narcillatrix - Dreamweaver · August 2012

My best friend's first character was a male psy when I introduced them to the game not even a month after the TB first came out. And that character is still her main to this day.

It's always funny to see other people still referring and speaking to her as a guy and her correct them, and their reactions being all like either; "o.o what? I don't believe you" or ":O you a chick!? omg *flirtflirt*"
Or it's not a big deal to her and just stops caring and let them call her a dude lol.

Do I think gender matters in a virtual game world? Nah, it's a game after all. Let people play how they want. Who cares, it's their toon they can make them female or male if it suits their fancy. But should people pretend to be a certain gender and lead someone on that could result in deceiving or hurting another? Err, I'm gonna have to say that's a no no. But I'm sure people do it, but it seems mean to me imo.

Azizsixer - Raging Tide · August 2012

Shandaar - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I know that feeling XD. I'm female and I dualclient BM/seeker. Both are male chars. People tend to be shocked when they learn I'm female, and I've had to tell some to back off >_>. I play the game to play a game, I'm not there to hunt for guys. The other day I added some guy to my faction and we quickly (took about 5 mins) came on the "girl" topic. I said I was female, and his reaction was to PM me to add him on Facebook. Right.

But if I know the people... I don't mind the occasional flirt, and if there's sex-related talk in my fac, I'm def. a part of it (or I started it XD).

What I wonder, and I've never really been given an actual answer on that... is that whenever I see female players, they're mages. Most of them anyways. They're usually clerics/mystics with a barb boyfriend or husband, or venomancers. I do have a mystic alt (male avatar - he's like 72) and I know of two other women who play melee.

I don't know if it's because girls like to be present by their guys' side (the healer+tank combo), or because it's "naturally" a female role, or because they truly enjoy healing/casting spells rather than being up front. Or it could be something else.

I'm not too sure on tht one because i've met my share of female melee toons...from sins to barbs to even a very weird bm...i think it's just the amount of females that actually admit it when they're on male toons. Since a lot pick male toons and end up playing melee.

laloner wrote: »

Wraithgate 20x3 is the hardest quest for me to get help on, its like pulling teeth. Just 2 days ago we were going to start BH69 wined and a female toon said don't wine it yet I need the mobs. The squad went along and she got almost all of 20x3 despite several deaths including the cleric once. And this was a level 88 player obviously a frost baby for having the quest at such a high level. Don't tell me gender doesn't matter in games.

Sigh...some guys are just desperate for a lil pixel love...rolled a psy alt (less than lvl 20) some nab saw her...thought she was hott...decided to flirt with me *While my Real Life gf was in squad catching a ton of lulz c/p the whole sqd chat to our main faction* Was one hell ov a story

_Skai_ - Raging Tide wrote: »

Gender in online games doesn't really matter to me. Unless I know the person, talk with them often, then gender doesn't matter at all.

I play a female character, yet I'm male, but mainly because why not? Why not play as something you can never be/never were, and enjoy it?

This is partially why i said personality ftw...some ppl like Skai...doesn't matter whether ur a guy or a girl or anything in between...a good personality draws ppl to you and that comes from who you are irl...#Skai fanboy b:surrender

VenusArmani - Dreamweaver · August 2012

BerserkBeast - Sanctuary wrote: »

A:Are you a girl irl?
B:Can't say,private information.
A:Ok you're a male(99% of the times).

I assume it's as male when this happens, as it's usually someone trying to deny what you've figured out. Mostly because they want to continue to be treated as the gender they seem to represent for various reasons. And if people knew their were actually the opposite, they might treat them differently. I also know many guys who have used that line to continue to scam other men out of their coins/items. Then claiming, "well I never said I was a girl," and so on. So you can't really blame them for doing the smart thing and assuming you're a guy if you aren't willing to be open about it. Even if you do have your legitimate reasons.

If someone flat out said they were a girl, or answered the question honestly, I would believe them. I never really understood why people claim nobody believes their a female and blames stereotypes, when they are so tightlipped about what they actually are. If you don't want people assuming you're the opposite gender, tell them what gender you are when asked. Otherwise, assumptions is the only thing they have to go on and those are going to come from personal experiences. Most gamers are guys, most people on this game are guys. Obviously not all, plenty of female gamers. Including myself. Just food for thought.

At the end of the day, as long as you're a nice person. It doesn't really matter what gender you really are.

Lolgasmic - Raging Tide · August 2012

Step 1) Does it have ****?
>If Yes) Girl
>If No) Not a Girl

Step 2) If **** are not visible, stare deep into their eyes and make them think you're creeping.
>Why?) Because It's Step 2

RiddleMeThat - Lost City · August 2012

Another way people define gender is through the names we choose to call our avatars. For some reason, even though I play a female character, people automatically assume I am male, even after seeing that my avatar is clearly not. I dont mind, and usually dont correct them. It was the same way with a friend I have, he plays a wiz named DeadByBeauty, and people assume he is female irl. tbh I have the same train of thought as most, if I see a female toon named BigTattas for example , I automatically think its a guy playing . Normally I try not to assume, and type their name, instead of referring to them as he or she, until i know for sure.

Kerona - Sanctuary · August 2012

I don't generally reveal whether I'm a boy or a girl until someone asks in games that I play. Eventually most people come to realize I'm a girl without me saying it, but I've had a few instances where that was not the case and I get pulled into "bromance" type friendships with dudes. Does that mean my gender was present in the game or not? It depends on what subject you are talking about, I think. A lot of girls tend to be more wordy than guys in games, also...

Our perception of gender is largely based on the culture we come from. Some cultures think women can only be sexual creatures or bishes and women are defined by the men they associate with. In many ways I regret being "openly female" on video games because of the connotations that come along with it. Such things as: the only way a girl can get gear is by selling nudes or flirting with men; the only way girls derive value in games is by how many men think they're hot; girls can't play, but she plays good/bad for a girl; girls must be nice, compliant, and submissive or they are bishes, etc. I'm admittedly not the nicest person in the world, but I often wonder if I'd get the same sort of trash talk if I were a dude. I disagreed with someone on the forum, now I sell nudes for gear? The assumption that girls use their sexuality to get ahead is hilarious, but from observing PWI women I can see where the assumption comes from. b:chuckle

PWI is sorta like a multicultural experiment, in a way. It's a wonder a faction of 200 people can get along well enough to TW at all, considering the meshing of different backgrounds, ideologies, and values. How does gender play into this? Factions have been created and fallen apart because of relationship drama, so gender definitely is a influence in PWI, in my opinion.

Gender in PWI

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