morai gear and shards

kamukaze · August 2012

Hi.
I'm a 95 barb and i start thinking on endgame gear. 101 morai gear looks good for me.
http://pwcalc.com/9f777980ff220b04 at this gear you see it has 16.4k hp and 25 unallocated points. I think its pointless to aim 20k or more, so i better sharded with sapphire shards. My questions: shall i put 25 points to str for extra dmg for flesh rearm for better hold agro in bossfights, or do i need more hp in pve (mean in full rb)?
2nd: what do you think whats better sharding: immac hp or morai sapphire? They have same costs but i'd prefer sapphire couse some instances like metal warsong is scary for me. So do you have any reasons to make my hp higher than current? (ofc i will do higher refines but later)

Night$aber - Dreamweaver · August 2012

From my point of view morai armor is worthless since the warding levels are only for mobs of your level and lower.That being said:Snakefist,Leaf and most other BH bosses along with delta mobs will hit you for harder than regular gear since morai has lower mdef/pdef.Also the added magic defense from saphires shouldnt be higher than 1k and that's less than 10% magic reduction,while the 1k hp you'd get multiplied by your buff and true form should get you close to 20k (well something like 18-19k anyway) and i'd choose the hp.
The new Aba and SoT bosses' special attack (the one that one shots most people),is as far as i'm concerned physical too so hp helps more in this case again.That's one of my reasons of choosing hp over mdef,the other one being that hp acts both as mdef and pdef.

Dragoneast - Sanctuary · August 2012

http://pwcalc.com/6560d1c4972e2046
i adjusted some sharding and ure neck, it was kinda out of date and this is one of THE best barb necklaces, since cube gear is rather expensive and u have acquired an extra 1.5k hp

kamukaze · August 2012

@Night$aber
where did you find that warding lvl works for lower mobs only? i didnt dint anything from that... can you give me a link from it?
@Dragoneast
y i have this neck but i find 5k mdef low, or it is enough with that hp?

tyvm for replies ^^

Night$aber - Dreamweaver · August 2012

Last time i checked,if you press the character status (C button) and hover your mouse above Warding Levels it will tell you that it only works for lower and equal level mobs.That's the reason i changed my bm's old morai armor to regular armor.

thumbs · August 2012

Night$aber - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Last time i checked,if you press the character status (C button) and hover your mouse above Warding Levels it will tell you that it only works for lower and equal level mobs.That's the reason i changed my bm's old morai armor to regular armor.

Is that paraphrase, interpretation or word for word? (Is that actually what it says)

Night$aber - Dreamweaver · August 2012

Just logged in the game to check it : 'When attacked by LV101 non-player targets,reduces damage taken by 0%'.That's because my char is 101 and i have 0 warding level.However i recall someone testing it and it also works for mobs lower than your level,but not higher.

Edit: And when i had 8 warding levels it said damage reduced by 6% or 7% if i'm not mistaken.

Sakubatou - Sanctuary · August 2012

Night$aber - Dreamweaver wrote: »

From my point of view morai armor is worthless since the warding levels are only for mobs of your level and lower.That being said:Snakefist,Leaf and most other BH bosses along with delta mobs will hit you for harder than regular gear since morai has lower mdef/pdef.Also the added magic defense from saphires shouldnt be higher than 1k and that's less than 10% magic reduction,while the 1k hp you'd get multiplied by your buff and true form should get you close to 20k (well something like 18-19k anyway) and i'd choose the hp.
The new Aba and SoT bosses' special attack (the one that one shots most people),is as far as i'm concerned physical too so hp helps more in this case again.That's one of my reasons of choosing hp over mdef,the other one being that hp acts both as mdef and pdef.

http://pwi-wiki.perfectworld.com/index.php/Damage

Target Level minus.................Damage
Attacker Level
multiplier
< 3 .................................. 100%
3 - 5 .................................. 90%
6 - 8 .................................. 80%
9 - 11.................................. 70%
12 - 15................................. 60%
16 - 20................................. 50%
> 20 .................................. 25%

I don't believe warding levels experience any special reduction beyond the normal reduction everyone experiences from level differences. However they don't work in tandem as well with defense levels since defense levels reduce the damage that warding levels would also be reducing. Still they're very good to have and considering they're about 80% as effective as a defense level and DoDs run about 35m on my server Morai gear is a great place to pick them up. Nothing wrong with Morai gear.

However, they don't effect bleed damage which is a beast in Seat. That's a physical DoT.

And while its good kamu is looking out for his mdef I think he's got it covered. Warding levels double by reducing pdef and mdef so their is no special need for saphire shards. Plus, as a melee class, about 85% of the damage you take will be physical. Most the boss attacks are physical and most mobs are either physical damage or have a magic ranged attack but switch to a physical attack when up close (which is where you will be).

So saphires are great for pvp, but for pve I'd switch them to citrines. You get 75% more hp as a barb from each hp point than other classes do. 1 vit-17 more hp in human but 30 more buffed in tiger form. To cover the loss of the saphires you want I'd suggest a CoA ring. They're relatively cheap.

So, gear improvements. Find an OHT mdef neck with adds you like or work towards a Swindler's neck. Ultimately you'll want a cube necklace but I can see cost is an issue.

Your rings... suck. But your low dex and accuracy force you into them. Did you know accuracy glitches when you use a phys debuff attack? Once you Devour or Penetrate Armor a mob or boss you get 100% accuracy till it's dead. This won't help you on large pulls when you are Sundering/Surfing but roar and frighten hit everytime and should give you the bulk of aggro. Anyways, replace one ring now for something you can refine for defenses. I'd suggest getting a CoA ring because it refines for magic defense, gives you 14-16 stat points in vit and dex, and gives you a nice chunk of damage. Later on work on replacing your other Misty with a Sign of Frost: Chaos ring since it gives the +50% accuracy stat you're dependant on since you're a vit build, as well as refining for decent phys def and having a +250 mdef add. It also will adds a decent chunk of dd for better damage.

A few other things. That cape sucks. Start working on a vana or event cape and refining it for more hp. If you have an bm/sin alt on the same account you may as well get a -int cape to share with them but refine it for your barbs hp. Aim for hp/vitality adds on your axe. When you craft it you can reroll and reroll or keep refines/shards/sockets for 60 lumi orders. Once you have 2 sockets you then can reroll just the adds for only 20 lumi orders so stay in Lumi till you have 2 sockets and the adds you want. I believe Lumi also has the exclusive citrines. Get these instead of perfect citrines because they're cheaper and offer more hp adds.

As for restatting for more strength, I always encourage it but its really up to the individual player. I think hp should come from refines and survivability should be more about skill than being gear dependant. I also believe "tanking" is 1/2 survivability and 1/2 keeping aggro. Vit barb builds offer survivability but really neglect actually being able to compete for aggro so you end up with 20k hp barbs watching 6k hp sins do the tanking for them. While barbs do get 30 hp per vit point when buffed and in tiger, and vit does add to to both mdef, it is a pretty bad defense multiplier. Strength gives more pdef than vitality does as well as increases your damage output, aggro, and the speed of which things die.

Here is the general build I've suggested. On my server I think perf sapphires are going for around 3m. So basically you were showing us a build with 57m in g9 saphire shards with only +4 refines. Refines are not hard to get +5 or +6 so I'd try to focus on getting those first. Good luck.

thumbs · August 2012

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

However, they don't effect bleed damage which is a beast in Seat. That's a physical DoT.

And while its good kamu is looking out for his mdef I think he's got it covered. Warding levels double by reducing pdef and mdef so their is no special need for saphire shards.

The bleed isn't an issue. +5 or 6 your G15 Morai gear (cheap as hell to do with DQ point -> event boutique stones), and use Phys ornaments (neck w/ +5% HP).

Downplaying mdef shards probably isn't such great advice. I had a hell of a time with Snakefist this past run (fail dd partly to blame). They'd also help on quests like Shroud's daily with the L.105 wood mag mobs. Was tempted to DoT my barb's gear but am going for the Exclusive Sapphires instead. I realize I could just go with a Cube mdef neck and a Warsong belt, but I'm not looking to spend a fortune and lose the +acc on the nice mdef ornaments I do have.

Plus, as a melee class, about 85% of the damage you take will be physical.

The fact that most of us are wearing HA gear already has that covered. -ty! Would you suggest we be exceptionally great (mega overkill) at something and not be competent at another? Should we leave ourselves as vulnerable as possible when another toon dies and we need to run that boss that's going to hit us with mag once we're at range?

Most the boss attacks are physical and most mobs are either physical damage or have a magic ranged attack but switch to a physical attack when up close (which is where you will be).

Most barbs aren't singling out mobs, taking them to a secluded spot and wrangling them to death 1 on 1. Most of us get ambushed and that's the time when we need defense the most!

To cover the loss of the saphires you want I'd suggest a CoA ring. They're relatively cheap.

They refine like ****.

Dragoneast - Sanctuary · August 2012

kamukaze wrote: »

@Night$aber
where did you find that warding lvl works for lower mobs only? i didnt dint anything from that... can you give me a link from it?
@Dragoneast
y i have this neck but i find 5k mdef low, or it is enough with that hp?

tyvm for replies ^^

i got 19k hp, am 100 and got like 2.6k base mag def and i manage

ure a barb u tank and most of what ull tank is physical

Magnanimous_ - Heavens Tear · August 2012

Just to clarify:

http://pwi-wiki.perfectworld.com/index.php/Damage#Slaying_Levels_and_Warding_Levels. They work a little bit differently from regular defence and attack level.

Warding Damage Reduction = Warding Level / ( Enemy Level + Warding Level )

For someone with 33 warding level,
Damage reduction from a lvl 100 mob will be = 24.8%
Damage reduction from a lvl 150 boss will be = 18.0%

I personally have done some preliminary tests when the morai stuff came out and the warding damage reduction works to some extent on most direct damage from mobs wherever its higher or lower lvl. It's just that, for a lvl150 boss, the damage reduction doesnt seem to work as effectively as for a lvl 100 mob.

kamukaze · August 2012

Tyvm for constructive answers.
Cost is really important for me couse i already have a sin as main and its need unlimited money. So this barb is jut for fun with low costs.
2nd thing. I'm confused how does pwi calculate dmg. Can you explain me how much dmg i recieve with following stats? For example a lvl150 boss hits on me 1000dmg without any armor or def or warding lvl. Then i put on armors,blessing etc. I write random numbers here. So i have 70%dmg reduction from defense 4%from armor stats 33warding lvl and 15 def lvl.
Edit: i think at this calculate (but maybe i'm wrong): 1000- 1000*(70+4)/100=260 then comes warding lvl 260-260* 33/(33+150)~214 then comes defense lvls-> 214/ [1+ (1,2*15/100)]~181
it is right or totally fail? if its right then 33 warding lvl and 15 def lvl is only +8% more dmg reduction at these numbers? so i get same dmg if i have pure 82% dmg reduction from armors.
ofc these are total random numbers, i wrote from phone and didnt want to waste my time to search real numbers.
i know at other side at mag def its larger difference ofc...
Tyvm

Magnanimous_ - Heavens Tear · August 2012

For example a lvl150 boss hits on me 1000dmg without any armor or def or warding lvl. Then i put on armors,blessing etc. I write random numbers here. So i have 70%dmg reduction from defense 4%from armor stats 33warding lvl and 15 def lvl.
Edit: i think at this calculate (but maybe i'm wrong): 1000- 1000*(70+4)/100=260 then comes warding lvl 260-260* 33/(33+150)~214 then comes defense lvls-> 214/ [1+ (1,2*15/100)]~181

Just one minor mistake

1. Due to physical defense value (70% p-damage reduction),
damage deal is reduced to 1000*0.30 = 300 damage

2. Due to stats addons (reduce physical damage taken +4%),
damage deal is reduced to 300*0.96 = 288 damage

[Note that 'reduce physical damage taken' addons does NOT ADD on top 'physical-defense damage reduction' but they rather multiply together]

3. Due to 15 defense lvl,
damage deal is reduced to 288 / {1+(1.2*15/100)} = 288 * 0.847 = 244 damage

4. Due to 33 warding lvl,
damage deal is reduced to 244 * [ 1 - {33/(33+150)} ] = 244 * 0.820 = 200 damage

if its right then 33 warding lvl and 15 def lvl is only +8% more dmg reduction at these numbers? so i get same dmg if i have pure 82% dmg reduction from armors.

I'm not sure of what maybe the conclusion of this calculation, but the interpretation of those numbers maybe a vague. The reason is because the damage reduction value takes zero p-def/m-def as reference point for damage reduction. A more appropriate way is to compare the damage taken when you are wearing a set of armor with xxx p-def & xxx m-def along with 33 warding lvl and 15 def lvl and the damage taken when you are wearing another set of armor with the same p-def/m-def but without any warding or defence lvl. In the above case, the damage difference is 200 damage with warding and defence lvl and 288 damage without. Then, it would be right to say that 33 warding lvl and 15 defence lvl is equivalent to (288-200)/(288)*100% = 30.6% net damage reduction.

If you are keen into pwi maths, you check the following link:
Damage Calculator by Nowitsawn (you'll need to download the spreadsheet to edit the cells. Also, only physical damage from boss is considered. The sheet is still under improvement work i believe)

Well, to answer the original post: wherever to use sapphire or citrine shards, the method of 'effective HP' would be more simpler and more appropriate:

Effective HP Calculator by Asteriel (just key in the numbers and looks for the option with the most increase in survival index)

In my opinion, If you assume that you are only going to get hit by magical mobs, then full sapphire shards will be better than citrines. Since most barbs, will encounter a mix of both magical and physical mobs here and there, citrines may look like a good solution to both. But, the first assumption is correct - to some extent - 'Most life-threatening situations will occur when you are surrounded by a massive amount of magical mobs - not by physical mobs -' [if a barb is dying on purely-physical mobs, then, there is something seriously wrong with his playing style - that happened to me in rb w 2 when I was abusing too much frenzy during arma >.>]

Hence, the choice of shading just sapphire or citrines or a mix of both is up to your own experience of 'life-threatening or squad-wipe situations'.

- Last point, arma deals more damage with tons of citrines on armors -

kamukaze · August 2012

Thanks. Its was really helpful and i found everything that i was looking for.

morai gear and shards

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