When do BMs start doing some good damage . . .

Herqq - Raging Tide · August 2012

At the moment even clerics are sill doing more damage than me, all clerics. Though my survivability has increased but when do I start killing things faster. By faster I mean 3-4 hits utmost. At the moment it takes a long chain of skills to kill things, which drain mana too. I'm not too concerned about the mana but I would like to kill fast, come on even healers are doing more damage b:cry

It says so on wiki to, but kinda ignored it, come on fists and stuns need I say more.

"Low damage output compared to wizards, archers, clerics, and psychics at low and mid levels "
http://pwi-wiki.perfectworld.com/index.php/Blademaster

So when do these mid levels finish so I can quick fast, I'm not saying that I turn into psychics, but at least kill in 3-4 hits. Seriously I really don't want to be a sin, so help a fellow BM become better.

Q.2. Can somebody please explain to me why 5 aps is so important that its made all other classes less wanted. I keep reading in forums and hearing from others. Some even saying thay had to level a BM or a sin as an alt for 5 aps just to survive. Also at what level 5 aps starts to really come into play, as in being a necessity for whatever reason.

Thx

Maelael - Heavens Tear · August 2012

Herqq - Raging Tide wrote: »

At the moment even clerics are sill doing more damage than me, all clerics. Though my survivability has increased but when do I start killing things faster. By faster I mean 3-4 hits utmost. At the moment it takes a long chain of skills to kill things, which drain mana too. I'm not too concerned about the mana but I would like to kill fast, come on even healers are doing more damage b:cry

It says so on wiki to, but kinda ignored it, come on fists and stuns need I say more.

"Low damage output compared to wizards, archers, clerics, and psychics at low and mid levels "
http://pwi-wiki.perfectworld.com/index.php/Blademaster

So when do these mid levels finish so I can quick fast, I'm not saying that I turn into psychics, but at least kill in 3-4 hits. Seriously I really don't want to be a sin, so help a fellow BM become better.

Q.2. Can somebody please explain to me why 5 aps is so important that its made all other classes less wanted. I keep reading in forums and hearing from others. Some even saying thay had to level a BM or a sin as an alt for 5 aps just to survive. Also at what level 5 aps starts to really come into play, as in being a necessity for whatever reason.

Thx

Wiki is outdated. It depends on your build and gear towards damage. Back in the day, save wizards and archers, I was able to outdamage people with just axes.

It also comes down to your playstyle, what level your skills are at, and how you are chaining. TBH I wouldnt worry too much till you hit your 70s/80s.

You pretty much want a MP charm. It's just kinda how it is, otherwise you're pushing the MP Pot button a lot.

5aps only makes you wanted for some/most instances. It is the highest damage output with survivability. You stay perma sparked (increased damage) and lay into mobs quickly while being healed by bloodpaint.

Sakubatou - Sanctuary · August 2012

Despite the massive Q.q from casters about aps they actually have a bit of an advantage with low hp mobs. They can 1-3 hit many mobs by dropping large dph from range while we have to first get into range and do multiple smaller damage hits at a faster rate.

K... how it works. Before -int gear axes have a higher dph but lower attack rate, fists have a smaller dph but attack faster. Both have the same average damage output, though.

Then you add -int gear. Attack speeds grows exponentially, each step gaining more dph than the previos step. So for axes that start at .83 aps or .91 they don't gain much per -int piece. Usually about 3-6%. For fists it starts around 9% gain and the final step from 4 aps to 5 aps is 25% gain. Exponential growth. You also spend more and more time triple sparked (500% weapon damage) the faster you attack because you gain chi faster. Combine this with an unequal refine rate that slightly favors fists and you get why fists and high aps are so popular.

Fists are never a huge dph (damage per hit) weapon and will always require multiple fast strikes to kill. Axes get into dph but it still doesn't compare to casters. Casters are allowed more magic in their build than most melee allow themselves strength. They have 100% accuracy, where we are dependant on dex for accuracy. They also have longer channeling skills usually, and pwi has balanced it so that more channeling=more damage (for the most part).

To answer your question, the bulk of aps gear isn't available till after 95. Your dph will start catching up though in the 80s.

laloner · August 2012

5 aps isn't what really matters, 4 aps is. If you can do 4 attacks per second then during your triple spark you will make enough chi to start a new triple spark as soon as the old one ends. So you are constantly having 500% weapon's damage added to each attack.

This is why aps isn't important until later on, you have to reach 89 to triple spark and usually wait till 99 to have enough interval gear to permaspark.

If the game added a spark cool down aps mania would be over.

witniss · August 2012

laloner wrote: »

5 aps isn't what really matters, 4 aps is. If you can do 4 attacks per second then during your triple spark you will make enough chi to start a new triple spark as soon as the old one ends. So you are constantly having 500% weapon's damage added to each attack.

This is why aps isn't important until later on, you have to reach 89 to triple spark and usually wait till 99 to have enough interval gear to permaspark.

If the game added a spark cool down aps mania would be over.

If they added a cd for triple spark, people would just double spark

witniss · August 2012

Until triple spark was off cd

Dragoneast - Sanctuary · August 2012

witniss wrote: »

Until triple spark was off cd

maybe but thats alot of dmg difference, 500% and extra atk speed or 300%

laloner · August 2012

witniss wrote: »

If they added a cd for triple spark, people would just double spark

I didn't write triple spark cool down I wrote spark cool down.

Sakubatou - Sanctuary · August 2012

laloner wrote: »

5 aps isn't what really matters, 4 aps is.

Difference between 4 aps and 5 aps is 25% damage, ease of extra skill usage, the ability to spark resist certain boss attacks, and 25% more paint heals. This means alot of people would then have trouble sparking and HFing (so you'd see alot less willing to use HF). For me that's also almost 700 less paint heals a second difference between 4 aps and 5 aps.

laloner wrote: »

If the game added a spark cool down aps mania would be over.

They tried this on their chinese test servers. It's one of the few things that people actually fully rebelled against and pwe decided was a bad idea and had an emergency patch to remove. Well, they made it so you didn't gain chi while triple sparked, which created a cooldown of its own.

"Aps mania" is an idiots term for people choosing higher dd. It's wanted because its effective. That's kind of like cleric's having a "heal mania" because healing is an effective way to keep people alive. Sure, some people focus way too much on -int gear and their dd and others don't quite understand why aps is good and when its not, they're just following the game trend. For instance people who complain about the unbalanced damage output of other classes in pk while they shard DoTs in their own gear then get one shot. Or the sin's that chose Barrier Thorns over things like R8 or Morai daggers not understanding that dps is both attack speed and damage per hit, since all they see if the high attack speed of Barrier Thorns despite its embarrassingly low dph.

Still, attack speed has exponential growth and this game is a computer program based on mathmatics. Aps works because damage gets multiplied by attack speed and this has both offensive and defensive applications which is why people pursue it.

Empu - Sanctuary · August 2012

Herqq - Raging Tide wrote: »

At the moment even clerics are sill doing more damage than me, all clerics. Though my survivability has increased but when do I start killing things faster. By faster I mean 3-4 hits utmost. At the moment it takes a long chain of skills to kill things, which drain mana too. I'm not too concerned about the mana but I would like to kill fast, come on even healers are doing more damage b:cry

Q.2. Can somebody please explain to me why 5 aps is so important that its made all other classes less wanted. I keep reading in forums and hearing from others. Some even saying thay had to level a BM or a sin as an alt for 5 aps just to survive. Also at what level 5 aps starts to really come into play, as in being a necessity for whatever reason.

Q1 : Imo, bms start to do good damage when they get good gear. For bosses this usually means high -int with good fists/claws, in other cases this usually refers to good axes. Ofc, tripple spark also is a factor, but for me the weapon with refines/shards count for most.

Sub Q1 : I think you look to much at the damage the clerics do per hit. With auto attacks or skills, you will hit less then any caster of your lvl. However, you will hit faster. When it's just killing mobs at low-mid lvls, most classes kill about the same speed unless they have an advantage on a particular mob type or the gear is not comparable.

Q2 : Like already said, 4 aps usually means permanent sparking. 5 aps is the max, and makes it easier to keep the permanent spark when using skills inbetween or when the boss moves/stuns/sleeps/seals or have extra safety on healing/purifying through tripple spark.

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

They tried this on their chinese test servers. It's one of the few things that people actually fully rebelled against and pwe decided was a bad idea and had an emergency patch to remove. Well, they made it so you didn't gain chi while triple sparked, which created a cooldown of its own.

The difference between an equal cd for everyone and the "no chi when sparked" is that the cd is massively gear dependant, and also massively favors sins. I didn't follow the test on chinese servers closely, but I recall that the main issue of the nerf being that the ppl were even more demanding for high aps.

I would actually like to see a cd on tripple spark, cause I doubt it will change much squad wise and just nerf the soloing ability.

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

Sure, some people focus way too much on -int gear and their dd and others don't quite understand why aps is good and when its not, they're just following the game trend.

I think this (with the exemples after) is more what ppl mean with the "aps mania". Where aps obviously has it's uses, it got to a point where it's so over-estimated it becomes counter productive. I think, since you mentionned clerices, it's similar for clerics that only spam chromatic, only bb or spam IH non stop when they could also throw in a debuff. Or seekers that know only vortex.

I do have a feeling that Sanc is coming a bit to it's senses though. Compared to a few months back, I encounter less bms in bh delta/lunar that have only fists, less squads in aba/seat that go mob by mob, and all those other annoying things that came with the "ZOMG I'm 5 aps *drool*" spike periode.

Sakubatou - Sanctuary · August 2012

Empu - Sanctuary wrote: »

I do have a feeling that Sanc is coming a bit to it's senses though. Compared to a few months back, I encounter less bms in bh delta/lunar that have only fists, less squads in aba/seat that go mob by mob, and all those other annoying things that came with the "ZOMG I'm 5 aps *drool*" spike periode.

I kind of agree with you here but for different reasons. Avoiding pulling 1 mob at a time is because peoples gear is to getting to the point that even sins are pulling 6+ mobs in places like seat or tanking Delta 2.

As for going away from 'omg-aps!' to using axes and aoes in more places, right now BMs are in the mindset that the only way to kill anything in PvP is with axe spike damage and have gone away from fisting everything. This is good and bad, but it's sort of just a swing away from aps to 'must have spike damage'. Popularity of R9/Morai axes have made aoe damage output more desirable and popular. And as mentioned, good armor now makes pulling multiple targets together to zhen them more simple than single target killing.

It's actually sort of a trend that has been bothering me since now one of the easiest ways to beat a bm is to chi suppress him (look at TheDan's stickied guide for genie recommendations) and the art of the stunlock is becoming less and less popular as the art of tank and spike damage becomes more and more popular, which is more a barb way of pvping than a bm's. Without the use of claws we are either over utilizing our genies to get more chi or conserving our chi more than we were before.

I'm running with more and more axe only bm's who think r9 ax's high dph means better dps, and that r9 gear is the best way to get high defenses. It's not always. It's just a trend in the opposite direction is all.

Trends like this in games are usually people following "what works best" like evolution in biology. Aps was a "what works best" evolution for dps. Now we're seeing a swing in the other direction for tanking and high dps from zhenning multiple mobs. Still not sure it's the smartest trend and I prefer to keep my build and playstyle more versatile and open to be able to be single target dps, multiple target dps, and tankablity.

Empu - Sanctuary · August 2012

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

I kind of agree with you here but for different reasons. Avoiding pulling 1 mob at a time is because peoples gear is to getting to the point that even sins are pulling 6+ mobs in places like seat or tanking Delta 2.

I do agree it comes into account, but I don't see that as a reason. Before the whole fist/aps discovery, ppl aoe'ed a lot. And gear really wasn't great. If you compare the number of mobs a bm/barb trailed on seaweed thieves in the 70s, while later everyone was 1 poking there. Even places like Seat for fb/chrono were cleaned faster then later on for bh.

There are probably tons of factors that make the real reason : ppl discover that on boss-killing time there is no more substancial gain, sins being too numerous in pve, gear upgrade, etc. But I'm still glad to see the change. I was really getting fed up with barbs in seat/aba and even metal/delta, that took out their fists for everything and bms with super-epic fists but no decent aoe weapon (pole/axe).

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

It's just a trend in the opposite direction is all.

Agree on that.

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

Trends like this in games are usually people following "what works best" like evolution in biology. Aps was a "what works best" evolution for dps. Now we're seeing a swing in the other direction for tanking and high dps from zhenning multiple mobs.

When aps became popular, there was a real time gain on killing bosses faster, and a gain on solo-ability. Right now there is almost no gain there, and it's "cleaning" till boss that makes most of the time on a run. So it's pretty logic from that point of view.

I do regret about these trends, that they are often exagerated in 1 direction. There is no acceptance (generally speaking) of several options or several good builds. Some trend becomes popular, all rush to it, if you don't then you're considered stupid, then the group dynamics take it over the point of efficiency and it becomes counter productive.

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

Still not sure it's the smartest trend and I prefer to keep my build and playstyle more versatile and open to be able to be single target dps, multiple target dps, and tankablity.

Imo, that is the main strong point of a bm, they are pretty good in many fields. I would love to see some more versatility overall in game actually. Among classes, builds and culties. At least now there are several "end-game" options in gear, so we might actually see some more.

_Mg_Zr - Heavens Tear · August 2012

Empu - Sanctuary wrote: »

Q1
I do have a feeling that Sanc is coming a bit to it's senses though. Compared to a few months back, I encounter less bms in bh delta/lunar that have only fists, less squads in aba/seat that go mob by mob, and all those other annoying things that came with the "ZOMG I'm 5 aps *drool*" spike periode.

It was that bad on sanctuary, -_-

Swonk - Lost City · August 2012

I am lvl 95 now, just got my decides +7

. Have -.10 on bracers and nothing else. 2.00 aps isn't a lot, but going from having no -int gear to having it. I feel now I am starting to do dmg on par with most lvl 90 sins who have -.20 with hook & dag. Which is nothing epic, but for me it is awesome. To answer your question, bm really does suck until you get closer to endgame. It is worth it though

.

laloner · August 2012

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

Difference between 4 aps and 5 aps is 25% damage, ease of extra skill usage, the ability to spark resist certain boss attacks, and 25% more paint heals. This means alot of people would then have trouble sparking and HFing (so you'd see alot less willing to use HF). For me that's also almost 700 less paint heals a second difference between 4 aps and 5 aps.

Divide 5 by 4 and its 1.25, divide 4 by 3 and its 1.33. This doesn't take into account the difference between being permanently sparked and not being permanently sparked. Discussing the difference between 4aps and 5aps purely by dividing the numbers between them is wrong, you need to rethink what you wrote.

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

They tried this on their chinese test servers. It's one of the few things that people actually fully rebelled against and pwe decided was a bad idea and had an emergency patch to remove. Well, they made it so you didn't gain chi while triple sparked, which created a cooldown of its own.

China never tried a spark cool down. A spark cool down would affect all aps toons equally, the restrictions on gaining chi the chinese version tried does not affect all classes equally as sins gain chi the easiest.

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

"Aps mania" is an idiots term for people choosing higher dd. It's wanted because its effective. That's kind of like cleric's having a "heal mania" because healing is an effective way to keep people alive.

So your calling me an idiot because I disagreed with your post. That's childish.

Anyway Demon triple spark can round up attack speed in a way not consistent with the skill's description. The game contains an exploitable flaw in its design that favors one type of toon over others. And the key to exploiting that flaw is reaching 4aps as I said in indirect contradiction of your earlier post. I'm sorry you took it personally because it was not meant that way. But now that you did I would like to see some convincing numbers on why reaching 4aps isn't more important to damage than reaching 5aps.

shotwhointhewhat · August 2012

Swonk - Lost City wrote: »

bm really does suck until you get closer to endgame. It is worth it though .

I had quite a different experience on my BM.

In early levels, it was kind of boring. Not much skills and diversity yet, but then most classes were like that. I actually read the story at that stage, so it was fairly interesting still.

Once I got some AoEs, it started to get fun. I would do sort of a solo zhen on physical mobs (like those feligars around FB51) to level. Pulling is fairly easy because if you use Roar on mobs that are resetting, it will cancel the reset and make them run back to you.

Questing was super easy when there were melee mobs as I could kill multiple mobs at the same time. When it came to quests, I didn't focus on kill speed but rather how many I could kill at one time. Quests with runners were not so easy though. On the bright side, it was where I first got introduced to stun locking.

I still remember how fun it was to tank mid level BHs in random squads without a barb. Especially how the squad would react when I would say, "Let's go guys. I can do it." Most people are skeptical of a BM tanking at those levels, but I pulled it off without any deaths many times. I even got praise from squad members for tanking so well.

Overall, I found it more fun throughout my BM's progression than any other class.

shotwhointhewhat · August 2012

laloner wrote: »

But now that you did I would like to see some convincing numbers on why reaching 4aps isn't more important to damage than reaching 5aps.

I am not a numbers guy, but I know 5 aps is more significant than 4 simply because we can gain more chi for using other skills with three spark and still remain permasparked. Skills like HF and dragon bane.

Swonk - Lost City · August 2012

shotwhointhewhat wrote: »

I still remember how fun it was to tank mid level BHs in random squads without a barb. Especially how the squad would react when I would say, "Let's go guys. I can do it." Most people are skeptical of a BM tanking at those levels, but I pulled it off without any deaths many times. I even got praise from squad members for tanking so well.

I have experienced the same thing, however you fail to mention that most if not all the people you will be doing FB/BH/Frost with all do more dmg. So even though you are able to tank the dmg you can never hold aggro long enough to be a real tank =/. Can't really call yourself a tank if you aren't able to maintain aggro. At least that is true for bosses; mobs are different when you are gaining first aggro with aoe, while rest of team is single target attacking.

Either way you aren't a real tank unless you are gaining aggro, which just isn't possible for a bm until the later lvls.

Sakubatou - Sanctuary · August 2012

Oh jeez,... here we go.

laloner wrote: »

Divide 5 by 4 and its 1.25, divide 4 by 3 and its 1.33. This doesn't take into account the difference between being permanently sparked and not being permanently sparked. Discussing the difference between 4aps and 5aps purely by dividing the numbers between them is wrong, you need to rethink what you wrote.

Attacking 5 times a second is attacking 25% more often than attacking 4 times a second. Hitting 5 times instead of 4 is 25% more damage even though it's just one more -.05 int piece of gear. There is no 3 aps attack speed, the next step below 4 is 3.33 and the difference between 4 aps and 3.33 aps is 20.1% damage. You can see that even though they both are a -.05 int apart there is greater gain the faster you attack.

While 4 aps is the magical 'perma-spark' number and nice to achieve it really isn't the end goal because ultimately BMs are still HF hoars and that is our main priority in most squads. HFing takes 2 seconds to accomplish so trying to HF for your squad and triple spark for your own damage means you will fall short of a permaspark if you are only 4.0 (2 second HF + 13 seconds of sparking time means 260 chi gained, the remaining chi needed will be gained at 2.86 unsparked attack rate which will take another 3 seconds. This is means if you HF for your squad you will spend 3 seconds unsparked). There are other things like chasing the boss at it random aggros or boss seals that will also cause a 4 aps bm to often fall short of a permaspark.

laloner wrote: »

China never tried a spark cool down. A spark cool down would affect all aps toons equally, the restrictions on gaining chi the chinese version tried does not affect all classes equally as sins gain chi the easiest.

What I said *points at first post* was "they made it so you didn't gain chi while triple sparked, which created a cooldown of its own." Not gaining chi during a spark isn't a real cooldown for sparks but it would change the ability to perma spark. Even sins could not chain more than 2 triple sparks in a row (3 if they start adding chi skills to their genies).

But even to do that it would drastically cut down their dps and change their gameplay. Personally, my sin saves his chi skills for when I need to use them defensively to triple spark resist/purify something or have fallen short of a permaspark. Sins don't survive well when they stop getting the paint heals of a constant attack and having to constantly spam RDS or be out of a triple spark would hurt them. Not as much as other classes, but they're also squishier than other classes so possibly long enough to die.

Its not so important to me that every class has the same opportunities and advantages as every other class.

laloner wrote: »

So your calling me an idiot because I disagreed with your post. That's childish.

I called the term 'aps mania' idiotic and gave my reason for it. The people who use it don't understand aps and use it as an 'OMGNerdRage Y U so aps q.q' statement to complain. Aps is no more a mania for DDs than healing is a mania for cleric's or dph or channeling time is a mania for casters. I think your next statement sums up what I meant about you not understanding aps.

laloner wrote: »

Anyway Demon triple spark can round up attack speed in a way not consistent with the skill's description. The game contains an exploitable flaw in its design that favors one type of toon over others. And the key to exploiting that flaw is reaching 4aps as I said in indirect contradiction of your earlier post. I'm sorry you took it personally because it was not meant that way. But now that you did I would like to see some convincing numbers on why reaching 4aps isn't more important to damage than reaching 5aps.

Demon triple spark rounds aps perfectly consistant with the description. The problem is 'aps' isn't how attack rate is calculated.

The game actually uses 'seconds per attack' and rather than growing with -int gear, the time between attacks is reduced. That's why we get expontential growth. Because the smaller the time between attacks the larger -.05 int becomes. So spa is what the game actually uses and calculates everything from, the inverse of aps (1/aps), but it displays our aps. That's why we get weird attack speeds like 2.22, 2.5, 2.86, 3.33, 4, 5. For instance 4 aps is actually .25 seconds between attack.

And demon triple spark doesn't increase our aps by 25% like you seem to think it should but rather increases our attack speed by 25% by reducing our spa by 25%. Less time between attacks means a faster attack rate.

You want math supporting that 5 aps is 25% more damage than 4 aps? Lol. Okay. Attacking at .2 spa (5 aps) is 25% faster than attacking at .25 spa (4 aps). The math would be .25/.2=1.25. A 4 aps cycle would contain 60 attacks, a 5 aps cycle would contain 75 attack (again 25% more). It takes 15 seconds to get 3 sparks at 4 aps but only 12 seconds at 5 aps, allowing you 3 seconds to use other skills like HF to increase your damage.

shotwhointhewhat · August 2012

Swonk - Lost City wrote: »

I have experienced the same thing, however you fail to mention that most if not all the people you will be doing FB/BH/Frost with all do more dmg. So even though you are able to tank the dmg you can never hold aggro long enough to be a real tank =/. Can't really call yourself a tank if you aren't able to maintain aggro. At least that is true for bosses; mobs are different when you are gaining first aggro with aoe, while rest of team is single target attacking.

Either way you aren't a real tank unless you are gaining aggro, which just isn't possible for a bm until the later lvls.

I do understand what you are saying, but you have the wrong idea of who is responsible for managing aggro. Holding aggro isn't always the sole responsibility of the tank. A good DD should know how to manage it's own aggro (or at least they used to know).

With a little communication and a game plan, even a random squad can go smoothly with a good BM tanking. This is actual practice, not hypothetical.

Jaabg - Sanctuary · August 2012

shotwhointhewhat wrote: »

I do understand what you are saying, but you have the wrong idea of who is responsible for managing aggro. Holding aggro isn't always the sole responsibility of the tank. A good DD should know how to manage it's own aggro (or at least they used to know).

With a little communication and a game plan, even a random squad can go smoothly with a good BM tanking. This is actual practice, not hypothetical.

Great tip on communication, i always ask before starting bosses on who is tanking. Simply because g16 claws+10 will steal agro from anyone practically. My bm is not strong enough to take damage from bosses, because bm is a cheapskate in terms of pots, apoc, def charms, charms and other things. If you just handle your dd a bit, you can still have fun on bosses.

To the OP: why 5 aps is more important than 4 aps? Depends if you are tanking or not, for me.

If tanking: 5 aps, reach 3 sparks quicker, because you need to spark to purge, heal yourself. 4 aps will give you grief.

If not tanking: You can use more of your 2 spark skills in one spark cycle for your squad. I can use GS+HF, i can use mss the other spark time. 5 aps with cyclone heel (4 aps base), if you are 3.33 aps base, i believe cyclone heel will put you at 4 aps.

When you reach vana, it will become apparent to you over the merits of 4 aps, 5 aps, hf role, timing, squad dd as a whole, your dd in squad, your dd alone. That instance is basically an aps playground, where variables can be fun. For example, the difference it makes in your ability to hf+spark if you get sealed by boss, what is better? 4 aps or being 5 aps? What about stun? What if you have to move away from boss? the time loss on moving affects your chi gaining. What if you get poisoned?

Once you begin to understand those things, come back and read saku's posts again. They will make sense. In the beginning i was lost with all the jargon, explanations as well. I worked on my gear, played it, learned about things, came back and things were clearer. If something doesn't make sense, don't worry too much about it, have fun, it will eventually become clear to you.

When do BMs start doing some good damage . . .

Comments

Categories