Skills for Ancient Derjan Hatchling?

Potzi - Lost City
Potzi - Lost City Posts: 91 Arc User
edited September 2012 in Venomancer
What do you guys use? It's mainly obviously gonna be used in instances.
Post edited by Potzi - Lost City on

Comments

  • Phoenix_Eye - Heavens Tear
    Phoenix_Eye - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,681 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    I dont have him yet but there are basic standards for any DD pet.

    - If you plan to use him in Caster Nirvana , it needs a specialised moveset.

    3 elemental bashes ( toxic Mist is nice if you are demon with demon venomous scarab )
    Howl lvl 5. Stronger than Mystics debuff , and useful if cleric doesnt debuff or busy healing.

    - If you plan to leave the Caster Nirvana out , the moveset can be diversified with your choice of skills

    LvL 5 Howl is again really useful , most instances lack debuffing clerics and BM prefer Heavens Flame than Glacial Spike.

    Bash lvl 5 doesn physical dmg , and is unresisted by any magical types.

    Claw lvl 5 is the classic phys attack buff. it increases attack by 30% at lvl 5 and since dino has a high attack , the bonus is really big. the Faction scroll gives 35% (if im right).

    Tough lvl 5 is a good choice since hatchlings aren't tanks , and many AoE may be fatal to them

    Since dino has a high attack speed and attack , it dmg comes mostly from normal attacking. Thus u can replace tough with threaten , for an added debuff , and let the pet DD while while alternating between Howl and Threaten.

    If you are demon , tough can also be replaced by Pierce for a guaranted phys def debuff. This is useful if barbs are absent and BM again dont use Glacial Spike
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    <--- MALE Veno ..... Moved to G W 2 or maybe not completely , don't know ...... PW addiction
    {That TT xbow chain is one that describes someone's bowel movements after having too much spicy food. A loud **** (Thundercrack), then a burning sensation (Flash Fire), followed by an explosion of multi-colored poo-confetti (Blinding Radiance). Excellent...} By Quilue
  • thumbs
    thumbs Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    Don't load it with Elemental bashes. Even for Nirvana it would be stupid. Howl, and Claw are on mine so far with no regrets.
  • Potzi - Lost City
    Potzi - Lost City Posts: 91 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    thumbs wrote: »
    Don't load it with Elemental bashes. Even for Nirvana it would be stupid. Howl, and Claw are on mine so far with no regrets.

    howl claw and what else?
  • X_volcano_y - Harshlands
    X_volcano_y - Harshlands Posts: 135 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    Howl is very good to boost mages as well as ur magic dmg.
    Claw it is rare and will cost about 30m.if you can afford it go for it.
    If you are demon the physical defence debuff will be nice when iornwood doesnt debuff
    If you are going to use this pet in pvp ream is recommended to lvl.
    Bash will be good since it has a high base atk on it but i prefer ream because it has longer cooldown and you can make advantage of the fast atk rate.
    finally the little dino is squishy strong and protect will grant it good surviblity making it perfect for everyday use excluding thing that only a herc can tank.
    when you said instances do u mean you have a nix cuz it is the only better dd.
  • Phoenix_Eye - Heavens Tear
    Phoenix_Eye - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,681 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    except that ream generates way laess dmg in situations with many APS DDs and generates slower aggro with every tick.

    There is a reason why bash is superior in PVE and OP clarified he wants this pet for instances

    PVP is another story

    Nix can't be taken into dungeons
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    <--- MALE Veno ..... Moved to G W 2 or maybe not completely , don't know ...... PW addiction
    {That TT xbow chain is one that describes someone's bowel movements after having too much spicy food. A loud **** (Thundercrack), then a burning sensation (Flash Fire), followed by an explosion of multi-colored poo-confetti (Blinding Radiance). Excellent...} By Quilue
  • Desdi - Sanctuary
    Desdi - Sanctuary Posts: 8,680 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    As a Demon veno my skill set at the moment is this; Pierce, Toxic Mist, Flesh Ream, Bash. I might switch Bash for Howl, though. A Sage veno won't need Pierce and Toxic Mist is not as great since they lack demon venomous scarab's debuff.

    I'm planning to get Claw for it and either Bless or Strong so that it will be less squishy.

    Also, don't use it in Caster Nirvana. It's a waste unless you are going to give it the herc buffs so it can survive longer but then your attack skills will be limited which is not good since then you'll get very little magic damage done.
    [SIGPIC]http://i.imgur.com/MtwcqjL.png[/SIGPIC]
    ★ Venomancer videos - tinyurl.com/k6ppkw4 ★ Desdi - Demon ♪ Wyvelin - Sage ★
  • dupethefile
    dupethefile Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    Desdi - Sanctuary wrote: »

    Also, don't use it in Caster Nirvana. It's a waste unless you are going to give it the herc buffs so it can survive longer but then your attack skills will be limited which is not good since then you'll get very little magic damage done.

    I recommend all veno experiment to make a magical damage pet and use in caster nirvana, you will feel the diference of damage, the pet's damage doesn't suffer damge's reduction in lvl[?] bosses. The derjan is the best damager pet in instances, i repeat again: My damage in caster nirvana is my pet. I haven't the derjan yet. If my lvl 80 seaguardian is a great DD, thederjan with claw, i have no comments.

    Derjan for caster nirv:
    - Claw or pet agressiveness (vault),
    -fireball lvl 5
    -icicle lvl 5
    -toxic mist if u are demon or sandstorm lvl 5

    The howl is unecessary because if u put howl you have only two magical attacks. While you didn't get claw or pet agressiveness is good choice put howl. If you have the claw in pet, i recommend put howl in another pet, and summons it only to debuff the boss and then summon the derjan. In my case i will summon the seaguardian to debuff the boss with howl and then summon the derjan.

    For pvp:
    -Claw or pet agressiveness (vault)
    -Protect or pet protection (vault)
    -Strong or pet fortitude (vault)
    - Flesh Ream
    The perfect balance between resistance and attack makes the perfect pet for pvp.

    This is my opinion.
  • thumbs
    thumbs Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    You should have better things to do as veno in Caster than sitting there clicking on pet skills. Passing chi to clerics, amp, myriad, purge, and your own DD should be way more than your pets regardless of no dmg reduction making those times you have to heal/ summon a huge waste.

    My guess is that the best veno spamming pet skills in caster would be worse than the worst Mystic using Mistress. Luckily I have yet to see such a veno in Caster.
  • Desdi - Sanctuary
    Desdi - Sanctuary Posts: 8,680 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    I've experimented with a few pets and I've found out that only the Hercules could survive decently without me having to heal it often but the Hercules has only a single slot for an attack skill and that's not going to help much. In the cases that my Caster was really fast, a pet wasn't even needed.

    Whenever I end up with slower squads, I use the Hercules for the 3rd and last boss to take care of the adds so the rest can focus on the boss. It has worked so far.
    [SIGPIC]http://i.imgur.com/MtwcqjL.png[/SIGPIC]
    ★ Venomancer videos - tinyurl.com/k6ppkw4 ★ Desdi - Demon ♪ Wyvelin - Sage ★
  • Marengo - Lost City
    Marengo - Lost City Posts: 771 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    Phoenix_Eye - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    I dont have him yet but there are basic standards for any DD pet.

    - If you plan to use him in Caster Nirvana , it needs a specialised moveset.

    3 elemental bashes ( toxic Mist is nice if you are demon with demon venomous scarab )
    Howl lvl 5. Stronger than Mystics debuff , and useful if cleric doesnt debuff or busy healing.
    dupethefile wrote: »
    I recommend all veno experiment to make a magical damage pet and use in caster nirvana,

    Derjan for caster nirv:
    - Claw or pet agressiveness (vault),
    -fireball lvl 5
    -icicle lvl 5
    -toxic mist if u are demon or sandstorm lvl 5
    Almost impossible to keep it alive without defensive skills. I tired and you know, i better focus on healing mystic's storm mistress.

    If you want elemental caster pet, go for volcanic magmite.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    youtube.com/elmarise
    pw art ◊ tinyurl.com/q6ca7ar ◊
  • dupethefile
    dupethefile Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    Marengo - Lost City wrote: »
    Almost impossible to keep it alive without defensive skills. I tired and you know, i better focus on healing mystic's storm mistress.

    If you want elemental caster pet, go for volcanic magmite.

    I will ask two things for you:
    1- We are the first class that have pets (summons), why cannot we use a magical pet? Only mystical have pets (summons) now? only myst can use them for damage?

    The myst have his pet and his summon heal skill that is faster than our pet heal, i haven't obligation to heal his pet.

    2- Volcanic magmite, is tanker, and no damge. Why do you think that in this expansion we have gained a new damager pet? To use this pet in caster nirvana or others instances that you are not tanking. Derjan's is the best damager in caster nirvana and all instances of the game, it is our pet damager. You can use a volcanic magmite but the damage will be lower than derjan or the scorpion.
  • Marengo - Lost City
    Marengo - Lost City Posts: 771 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    dupethefile wrote: »
    I will ask two things for you:
    1- We are the first class that have pets (summons), why cannot we use a magical pet? Only mystical have pets (summons) now? only myst can use them for damage?

    The myst have his pet and his summon heal skill that is faster than our pet heal, i haven't obligation to heal his pet.
    It was a joke. I dont heal mystics' pets there but if i have to choose i better heal SM than dino =)
    2- Volcanic magmite, is tanker, and no damge.
    It does more damage than herc...
    Why do you think that in this expansion we have gained a new damager pet? To use this pet in caster nirvana
    No, its useless in caster nirvana because its squishy. You can get mdef and hp buff skills but then only 2 slots for magic skills left.

    I dunno why we gained it, it seems pretty useless for me. I don't know any instance which is impossible with magmite but possible to do with derjan. If you want it to survive more or less serious aoe you have to equip it with buffs, then no caster for it b:bye
    Derjan's is the best damager in caster nirvana
    Did you try it in caster nirvana?
    and all instances of the game, it is our pet damager.
    Dead pet deals no damage.
    You can use a volcanic magmite but the damage will be lower than derjan or the scorpion.
    Of course, but difference is not that huge.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    youtube.com/elmarise
    pw art ◊ tinyurl.com/q6ca7ar ◊
  • Phoenix_Eye - Heavens Tear
    Phoenix_Eye - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,681 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    hmmmmm shall i mention that Venos can easily join normal Nirvana runs that are much faster than Caster's ? in those situations , Dino is just fine.


    Caster Nirvana isnt the only endgame dungeon and dissing a pet just for one dungeon seems really dump to me.


    and and Marengo the Dmg difference is big , there is a reason why those pets are preffered than the bulky rocks.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    <--- MALE Veno ..... Moved to G W 2 or maybe not completely , don't know ...... PW addiction
    {That TT xbow chain is one that describes someone's bowel movements after having too much spicy food. A loud **** (Thundercrack), then a burning sensation (Flash Fire), followed by an explosion of multi-colored poo-confetti (Blinding Radiance). Excellent...} By Quilue
  • Mayfly - Dreamweaver
    Mayfly - Dreamweaver Posts: 6,094 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    101 Ancient Derjan's Hatchling: PAtk 4182 (source: wiki and ultimately screenshots on this forum.)

    100 Crystalline Magmite: PAtk 3903 (Source: Ecatomb)
    100 Glacial Walker: PAtk 3901 (Source: ditto)

    The big attack difference between them is attack speed (1.0 for the hatchling, 0.6 for the rocks) which, however, is irrelevant in casters, where the pet's auto attack will do no damage to the bosses. So, for the purposes of casters, there is only a small difference in damage.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Weekly Japanese/English bilingual webcomic
    thejapanesepage.com/ebooks/yuki_no_monogatari_manga
  • Desdi - Sanctuary
    Desdi - Sanctuary Posts: 8,680 Arc User
    edited August 2012

    Reason Storm Mistress is by far better than the Venomancer pets inside Caster Nirvana is because the Storm Mistress can continually attack with magic. The cooldown of its first skill is so short that she can keep spamming it as long as she has MP. Our regular pets have longer cooldown on the skills so they end up auto-attacking with physical damage.

    If you try to take the dino without any defence/hp buffs you will have to waste time to keep it alive or revive it. In the case is does have defence/hp buffs, then it has fewer attack skills which results in the pet auto-attacking most of the time. Auto-attack does nothing there.
    [SIGPIC]http://i.imgur.com/MtwcqjL.png[/SIGPIC]
    ★ Venomancer videos - tinyurl.com/k6ppkw4 ★ Desdi - Demon ♪ Wyvelin - Sage ★
  • dupethefile
    dupethefile Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    Yes, caster nirvana is only a instance, but how much pets for difference situation you have more perfect you are. So the defenses of the dino isn't bad, 8k pdef and 8kmdef. if you want lvl up another glacial walker ou magmite to use in caster nirvana it's your choice. But you have a pet in lvl 101 with a big atk what's better?

    And have you ever observate where the myst leave his storm misstress? There are many position where you stay with the pet that your pet doesn't take much damage. And this position avoids storm mistress die. The pet in caster nirvana hits a lot in the boss, while you are purging, amping, transformed in fox form, giving chi... u haven't attacking while this your pet is attacking. IN the last boss when the boss buffs all players and pet, the damage the pet is incredible.

    I like the magical pet in caster nirvana and recommend it, it help so much in damage, but if you dislike, the problem is yours.
  • Desdi - Sanctuary
    Desdi - Sanctuary Posts: 8,680 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    Well, the Storm Mistress is a ranged pet. The venomancer pets are all melee (ranged ones deal physical damage so it's useless there). I may add that SM generally deals 10k damage, more or less, depending on gear. That's about 10k per 3 seconds or so. That's much more than a venomancer pet can deal in the long run.

    And for the record I didn't say that I dislike pets in Caster. O.o I merely placed some facts. I'm among the first to encourage people to experiment with different pets and find what works best for them. It just irks me if I see Venomancers wasting their time to heal or revive their pet when they need focus on other things. I'm not so picky as to tell venomancers to stow their pets in caster, anyway. I let people play as they please.
    [SIGPIC]http://i.imgur.com/MtwcqjL.png[/SIGPIC]
    ★ Venomancer videos - tinyurl.com/k6ppkw4 ★ Desdi - Demon ♪ Wyvelin - Sage ★
  • dupethefile
    dupethefile Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    Desdi - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Well, the Storm Mistress is a ranged pet. The venomancer pets are all melee (ranged ones deal physical damage so it's useless there). I may add that SM generally deals 10k damage, more or less, depending on gear. That's about 10k per 3 seconds or so. That's much more than a venomancer pet can deal in the long run.

    And for the record I didn't say that I dislike pets in Caster. O.o I merely placed some facts. I'm among the first to encourage people to experiment with different pets and find what works best for them. It just irks me if I see Venomancers wasting their time to heal or revive their pet when they need focus on other things. I'm not so picky as to tell venomancers to stow their pets in caster, anyway. I let people play as they please.


    When the pet dies, and i have to pass chi, purge... these actions are priority, then i ressurrect and heal the pet, if the veno knows how to play she can conciliate/arrange perfectly in nirvana. I can leave my pet alive since the first until the last boss, the only boss that i rarely get this is the fourth boss.

    You can discord with me for how long time you want, but veno with a pet damager in caster nirvana make a nirvana more fast. I say and repeat one more time: My pet is my damage in caster nirvana and in all the mobs/bosses lvl [?]. I have a Pataka TT 99 +4, if all of you are full r9 +12, my congrulations.

    There are Venos and venos, Pets and pets.
  • Desdi - Sanctuary
    Desdi - Sanctuary Posts: 8,680 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    dupethefile wrote: »
    When the pet dies, and i have to pass chi, purge... these actions are priority, then i ressurrect and heal the pet, if the veno knows how to play she can conciliate/arrange perfectly in nirvana. I can leave my pet alive since the first until the last boss, the only boss that i rarely get this is the fourth boss.

    You can discord with me for how long time you want, but veno with a pet damager in caster nirvana make a nirvana more fast. I say and repeat one more time: My pet is my damage in caster nirvana and in all the mobs/bosses lvl [?]. I have a Pataka TT 99 +4, if all of you are full r9 +12, my congrulations.

    I don't have R9 b:sweat

    Anyhow, my first paragraph was about the Storm Mistress dealing more overall damage in attempt to further explain why it's superior in Caster as a summon/pet. I didn't imply anything else nor did I imply venomancer pets are useless. Elemental bashes exist for a reason, after all.

    Also, I'm not criticising your playstyle (or gear for the matter) or anything of that sort. The OP came to the forums and asked a question and needs to know all sides of an argument and all opinions. Eventually, they will decide for themselves what they want to believe and follow and what not. Just like you're placing your beliefs, I placed mine and that's about it.
    [SIGPIC]http://i.imgur.com/MtwcqjL.png[/SIGPIC]
    ★ Venomancer videos - tinyurl.com/k6ppkw4 ★ Desdi - Demon ♪ Wyvelin - Sage ★
  • Azura - Lost City
    Azura - Lost City Posts: 2,281 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    I want my dino to have protect, strong, claw, and fleash ream. With those skills the derjan hatachling will be as tanky as a hercules, but with way better attack.

    I'm missing protect and strong still because no one has got them recently in dragon palace.

    This is for pking on ground, in instances, and for normal nirvana.

    Imo, a veno wastes her time if they use a pet for caster: Hercules would probably only have one slot for magic attack; any pet w.o buffs would get one shot by any aoe. So it's better to concentrate on amping and debuffing bosses in nirvana and dd with magic attacks.
    [SIGPIC]http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=929114001&dateline=1398892224[/SIGPIC]
  • dupethefile
    dupethefile Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    Azura - Lost City wrote: »
    Imo, a veno wastes her time if they use a pet for caster: Hercules would probably only have one slot for magic attack; any pet w.o buffs would get one shot by any aoe. So it's better to concentrate on amping and debuffing bosses in nirvana and dd with magic attacks.

    They don't. If my seaguardian lvl 80 doesn't die easily for any aoe attack in caster nirv.
    And i desists, one day all of you will know the potential of a pet in caster nirv.



    If the magic bashes exists, there are a function for this. Anwser: Caster Nirvana.
  • thumbs
    thumbs Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    dupethefile wrote: »


    If the magic bashes exists, there are a function for this. Anwser: Caster Nirvana.

    They existed long before the idea of caster was conceived, and they are a waste.
  • dupethefile
    dupethefile Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    thumbs wrote: »
    They existed long before the idea of caster was conceived, and they are a waste.

    They were made for a reason: To be used.
  • thumbs
    thumbs Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    dupethefile wrote: »
    They were made for a reason: To be used.

    Yes; to be used by idiots to make for another difference between good players and bad.
  • dupethefile
    dupethefile Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    thumbs wrote: »
    Yes; to be used by idiots to make for another difference between good players and bad.

    I'll take this as a compliment!
  • Vitenka - Dreamweaver
    Vitenka - Dreamweaver Posts: 4,125 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    Granting that howl is an awesome skill (it really is)
    You've still got 3 slots left. Why wouldn't you use elemental bashes? More damage is more damage, even if it's not MUCH more damage.

    I can certainly see an argument for the pet survival skills in their place; but my triple elemental magmite was lovely.
  • tweakz
    tweakz Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    Vitenka - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Granting that howl is an awesome skill (it really is)
    You've still got 3 slots left. Why wouldn't you use elemental bashes? More damage is more damage, even if it's not MUCH more damage.

    I can certainly see an argument for the pet survival skills in their place; but my triple elemental magmite was lovely.

    Howl doesn't compare to Elemental Seal which is used almost full time in almost every run I'm in. A veno should be out DD'ing a cleric making all the wasted time healing their pet a true waste.
    Be kind: Help the GMs to depopulate the servers.
  • Ripokeke - Sanctuary
    Ripokeke - Sanctuary Posts: 154 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    Ok, I tried with my hatchling yesterday. Level 5 skills on howl, toxic mist and sand blast. No protect skill cause to expensive.

    damage is around 5k each magic attack, but it dies too quickly... Takes abt half my time to heal it to keep it alive.b:sad

    Think I will change it back to dd pet in instances where there's good tank. My herc did 2k plus on normal attacks, while dino does 3k.

Categories