a little love for clerics
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The core problem with these new Morai skills is purple night dance/Violet dance.
If clerics could cast new skills without that skill, or if violet dance allowed to heal they would be awesome skills. But with such huge penalty imposed to that mode for such miserable dmg increment in exchange for cleric core skills and such horrible recast delay, I most of the time feel that I'm better off without it, unless I'm mob hunting alone.
If I would not like to heal I would not be playing a cleric.
IMO there is little point to complain here as PW China is unlikely to change those skills, despite Chinese players themselves calling them all useless but Ancestor Blessing.
For those who feel ripped off, my suggestion is to roll a wizard or a mystic, both got awesome new skills. b:bye0 -
Cedro - Sanctuary wrote: »IMO there is little to complain here as PW China is unlikely to change those skills
Actually, VD used to give you a -10% HP penalty which has since been removed.
UVD even adds max HP now.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
I meant the no heal / can't cast skills without purple night dance part which is the main issue IMO with these new skills, the HP increment is small BTW (less than 500 at 104 ) but useful nonetheless.0
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There was this one cleric that I use to love on...0
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Nowitsawn - Heavens Tear wrote: »Comparing a cost of 1000 mp per hour with being stripped of your heals?
Makes total sense.
Really, it almost sounds like you don't know what other skills come with being stripped of heals and its application in 1v1 PK. All these clerics complain about how they don't have anything for PvP, yet the lv 100 skills and Morai skills were for just that. Give those anti-heal skills to any other class with long disables, say a BM or sin, and see what happens. Make it only usable in a form that disables heals too! BM can't Diamond, Sin can't Blood Paint.
see how much those classes would complain...
You can't be good attack and good support at the same time, venos need to go into fox form to purge and amp, do they complain about lacking elemental nukes and their stun while in fox form?Elena Costel: I wash my hands of this affair.
Legerity: *drags you back* *stains your hands with said affair*
Elena Costel: Noooo... I don't want to have a dirty affair with Lady Legerity...
Qui: b:dirty0 -
What I don't get is, why are clerics who always wanted to be metal mages (DDs) now complaining that this isn't what they wanted? If you kinda notice DD's don't exactly get heals. Violet dance can give up to 100% mattack bonus from gear when it becomes Ultraviolet Dance. Not to mention you get some nifty skills you can only use in that form like magical shackle and the anti-heal debuffs.[SIGPIC]http://i48.tinypic.com/2r61kw3.jpg[/SIGPIC]
Ty Fon for the Siggy
The rare and exotic Sage Archer of HT. b:cute0 -
I play both a cleric and a mystic and i have to say ... The clerics should have a knockback pvp skill, not the mystics.
They ARE in gread disadvantage, especially in pvp. Of course there arent a pvp-class but seriously ... With my Mystic lvl90 i can kill most of the classes with 2 Skills only. And yeah, i even killed a 102 sin with them. With my cleric i was lucky when i faced a Psychic so i had a chance.
Of course Mystics are op, i just dont get it why magic classes with heavy damage or a lot of stun/freeze/sleep skills get knockbacks and usefull new skills, and a class like clerics gets NOTHING good for pk.
But why should the developers do something for the main healers... they expect everyone to get 5 APS or r9 so nobody needs healer anymore. What should a 5 aps sin do with a tt99 cleric anyways?Do you believe in life before death?0 -
KawaiiJen - Heavens Tear wrote: »What I don't get is, why are clerics who always wanted to be metal mages (DDs) now complaining that this isn't what they wanted? If you kinda notice DD's don't exactly get heals. Violet dance can give up to 100% mattack bonus from gear when it becomes Ultraviolet Dance. Not to mention you get some nifty skills you can only use in that form like magical shackle and the anti-heal debuffs.
Not every cleric are metal mage and before that other class was already complaining that some cleric acted as metaL mage beside heal/keep squad alive, which is a cleric job, with VD it's worse, now cleric go in VD excpecting people to live on charm, pots and ask mystic to heal while they DD.
I have now sometimes 2 clerics in some squad in VD DDing asking me the mystic to heal, i'm sorry, but if there's 2 clerics in squad that don't heal i won't do it for them.
VD just make clerics forgot what is their job, I'm speaking about PvE point on that, i don't care if they want to use it in PvP, but in PvE a cleric job should be always keep heal>DD.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
b:dirty "I **** rainbows and love everyone"-Longknife b:cute0 -
If you look at it this way, VD is basicly a counter to clerics usual aspects in a TW setting. absorb arrays focused on key DD's and catapult pullers allows for them to be dealt with much more quickly.
In open PvP, it still applies to some degree. if you know someone is hp charmed, you add absorb arrays to the typical sleep and spark combination along with shackle and mark of weakness to maximize the amount of pain you can inflict.
PvE is where VD can fall short, absorb arrays are basicly useless and very situational, shackle and mark of weakness however do grant access to two very useful debuffs. Only thing to note is that if theres 2 or more clerics, AT LEAST ONE should be focused on healing the squad while the other switches into VD, and if needed, be ready and know when to switch out of it to reinforce healing.Ad Astra Per Aspera0 -
Krazykev: what would happen if you had two clerics in squad, one bad the other good. the good one has VD and the bad one doesnt. so the bad one would probably do things that the good one could still do out of VD mode. (i mean good as in knowing their class.) some players mostly get good squads for things such as bh and etc. just making comment bout those that dont know their class.
KawaiiJen: Idk how long ago that cleric players wanted a DD form but wasnt it before descent came around? yeah i agree with you that those that wanted a "metal mage" form now are complaining that it isnt the way they wanted it.
Lucrecia: if you think that clerics should get a pvp knock back skill instead of the mystic, then maybe try convincing pw to make the bms, archers, wizards and psys knock back skills pvp effective as well. why stop there, next players that have a sin, seeker, veno, barb will complain that they want a pvp knock back too.
From yours truly: i really think that VD and the skills that go along with it do have a useful place even if its situational. maybe someday VD and all of the new morai skills will have a usefullness. I do think that pious blessing should be redone a bit considering the duration that it uses is very low and should be increased. (maybe even up to 1-2mins like the sins deaden nerves.) also maybe pw should consider in redoing some of the other morai skills on the cleric like mark of weakness and increase the duration up to 30secs or 1min. absorbing array and aurora array needs the no effect on characters above 5+ lvls to be taken out since alot of those that might get such skills will be dealing with at least mobs 7-10 lvls difference not sure bout the difference in pvp since alot of those that do pvp are 100+. anyways i think that VD is a good skill just that it might need some or quite alot of improvements before it can be fully useful.The Sure Shot that Flies Straight
Tiduswarrior Demon 101 (Main), Vanflyheight 100 (Demon RB2), SasukeZx 95 (Demon), Leobeastking 90s (Sage), Swiftterror 80s, AquaStriker 99 (Sage)
2nd Acc: BlademageX 88, RazorFalcon 89, RavenwingZ 79, Veilpor 73, TidalLight 30, SythrilZ 64, Stormthril 640 -
Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands wrote: »Well in pvp/tw cleric is always the first target but have no skill anti stun while sins and bm chain stun constantly.
Yes we have plume shell, but look like people don't know that in pvp/tw plume shell is useless if you are not mp charm.
lol everyones the first target in a tw. at least 60% of the ppl running through r literaly just attacking the nearest opposing person. if u dont wanna be a main target step back a bit and keep a gaurd nearby. and if u want to get rid of the stuns make a high magic genie with a stun removal skill so u can remove it as often as possible.
ive seen some pretty boss clerics who can stand up with equaly geared ppl. just a matter of skill. and the developers were listening more then ppl think. but there not gonna hand u wizzie lvl dd on a silver plater. thats just not fair.if u get the 100 version of violet dance its not as gimping. and i persinolly know of TOOOOOOOONS of clerics who love never losing exp. not everyones good with a cleric though but i cant blame them for trying there hand in it0 -
supertroyman1 wrote: »lol everyones the first target in a tw. at least 60% of the ppl running through r literaly just attacking the nearest opposing person. if u dont wanna be a main target step back a bit and keep a gaurd nearby. and if u want to get rid of the stuns make a high magic genie with a stun removal skill so u can remove it as often as possible.
ive seen some pretty boss clerics who can stand up with equaly geared ppl. just a matter of skill. and the developers were listening more then ppl think. but there not gonna hand u wizzie lvl dd on a silver plater. thats just not fair.if u get the 100 version of violet dance its not as gimping. and i persinolly know of TOOOOOOOONS of clerics who love never losing exp. not everyones good with a cleric though but i cant blame them for trying there hand in it
Lol your faction must suck hard in TW if the clerics are not the first target.
And normally a good cleric will be able keep his squad and himself alive in PvE so wont loose exp. A cleric who will die often and constantly loose exp is unskilled or have bad gears so bad survivability or both.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
b:dirty "I **** rainbows and love everyone"-Longknife b:cute0 -
Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands wrote: »Lol your faction must suck hard in TW if the clerics are not the first target.
And normally a good cleric will be able keep his squad and himself alive in PvE so wont loose exp. A cleric who will die often and constantly loose exp is unskilled or have bad gears so bad survivability or both.
I'll disagree with this entirely.
In some cases the primary targets of the squad are not clerics at all but other targets. As an Archer my Primary target is always other DD like wizards and archers THEN clerics, as a dead DD is a useless DD. There's no point in targeting a cleric only to die to the swarm of DDs protecting them. Little bit of common sense before you post.
To the 2nd part of your post even the "good" clerics will die sometimes to accidents. As the say goes "Sht Happens". I've seen very good clerics die in PvE for various reasons. It happens.[SIGPIC]http://i48.tinypic.com/2r61kw3.jpg[/SIGPIC]
Ty Fon for the Siggy
The rare and exotic Sage Archer of HT. b:cute0 -
It depends on what you're doing. On defense, cat clerics are first target because they heal barbs. Take the clerics, then the barbs, and all the DD can die later as their cats are down and they have nothing to support. Immune, circle around, flank, whatever, but cleric goes first. No point in HF amp mire ep spark if someone just purifies it. In order to heal the barbs, clerics are often 20-30m behind them which makes them somewhat more accessible.
On offense, DD goes first. Even if a ranged DD is being stacked, you're not going to wade through DD range, then try to get at the clerics behind the ranged DD, a total of 50-60m behind frontline heavies. Often clerics in DD squads have to look after several DDs at once, purge the DD of his/her stacks and focus fire.Elena Costel: I wash my hands of this affair.
Legerity: *drags you back* *stains your hands with said affair*
Elena Costel: Noooo... I don't want to have a dirty affair with Lady Legerity...
Qui: b:dirty0 -
KawaiiJen - Heavens Tear wrote: »I'll disagree with this entirely.
In some cases the primary targets of the squad are not clerics at all but other targets. As an Archer my Primary target is always other DD like wizards and archers THEN clerics, as a dead DD is a useless DD. There's no point in targeting a cleric only to die to the swarm of DDs protecting them. Little bit of common sense before you post.
Well normally people target cleric first cause a cleric can ress the dead DD, rebuff and heal/purify etc...
Unfortunately on HL people are really bad at TW and DD doesn't protect cleric as it should, sometime i can have the same sin or DD on me for 3-5minutes while no one touch him.
Some archers on my server are considered as the best cause they take down clerics first while other people DD on cata barbs.KawaiiJen - Heavens Tear wrote: »To the 2nd part of your post even the "good" clerics will die sometimes to accidents. As the say goes "Sht Happens". I've seen very good clerics die in PvE for various reasons. It happens.
Yes a good cleric can die sometime, but if a cleric die 20 times a day in PvE there's a problem other than a badluck.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
b:dirty "I **** rainbows and love everyone"-Longknife b:cute0 -
Beleni - Dreamweaver wrote: »Tiger mode lowers P .attack and makes all Human form skills unavailable.Beleni - Dreamweaver wrote: »True Form is changes the roll completely. turning them into Meatshields.
it doesnt add to the core funcations of a barbarian, it changes it.
Not if the barb goes demon.0 -
Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »For those of you who say Violet Dance is useless, then why bother buffing yourselves with mattack buff? That's only 70% weapon damage right? Stop buffing yourselves with Spirit's Gift! It's useless! See if other people will see how much sense you have.
yeah that was an ignorant thing to say. the demon version gives a way better damage inc and doesnt require you to lose the core of what you are, a healer, to use it.0 -
Violent Dance is great for, let's say, Caster Nirvana.
I was in squad with 2, 3 or even 4 clerics in squad.
One can heal, while others can go into "attack mode" and help kill boss faster b:victory
I don't see much use for that skill other than that b:surrender0 -
CheetahWoods - Raging Tide wrote: »I believe Mrs Mav on RT is an R9 cleric and just kicks the **** out of most everyone. fearsome pker.
Mav is a joke. He kicks the **** out of people 20 lvls below him but has no actual skill skilled players take him down all the time he relys completly on his mom's visa card to win.Prophete - Dreamweaver wrote: »Hmm honestly, a full JOSD r9 cleric is one of the most scary opponent to face in pk.
And with the new morai skill, they are even scarrier.
Any full JoSD r9 class is scary to face in PK/TW
Honestly people complaining that clerics don't have the same firepower of the dd classes is just sad, they aren't supposed to. My psy at lvl 95 was hitting as hard as my cleric at 101 with only a +5 tt90 while my cleric has a +10 tt100. Some classes just hit harder and some are better at other things like hmmmmmm healing? buffing?
The morai skills are amusing and for some classes are better than other's I think (with the exception of squad stealth) that sins got a rawer deal on them than clerics but I don't worry much about them.
A skilled player can make any class a success in PvE and PvP. And while I can solo FC on my cleric, (takes way too long lol) I prefer doing on my sin(30 mins vs 1 hr and 30 mins lol) And I must say that a cleric's sleep is just fun to use in TW I don't get to attack much since I'm usually a cata cleric, but I love sleeping unsuspecting foes and leaving them for my team mates b:chuckle too bad I don't get an assist credit.
Most of the time a cleric isn't the most exciting class to play as we tend to take the blame for other people's fails (like people that blame you for not healing when they pulled 50 mobs and didn't aoe to lock agro to prevent heal agro) But then you can also let the people you don't like die as much as you want b:shutup[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Want to solve alot of my problems? On your computer Click - Start - now click - Run - now type - cmd - now type - format c: - If you are using Windows Vista or 7 please be sure you run as administrator.0 -
I'm sorry but clerics are a pure SUPPORT class in this game. The fact that they gave you a "Metal Mage" mode which isn't that bad considering, though doesn't match other DD casters (obviously as they aren't SUPPORT classes). You should be grateful they gave you the chance to do more "DD abilities" >_>[SIGPIC]http://i48.tinypic.com/2r61kw3.jpg[/SIGPIC]
Ty Fon for the Siggy
The rare and exotic Sage Archer of HT. b:cute0 -
KawaiiJen - Heavens Tear wrote: »I'm sorry but clerics are a pure SUPPORT class in this game. The fact that they gave you a "Metal Mage" mode which isn't that bad considering, though doesn't match other DD casters (obviously as they aren't SUPPORT classes). You should be grateful they gave you the chance to do more "DD abilities" >_>
I think this is the problem. Clerics are not meant to be dd'ers. So they shouldn't
have given us a skill that bolsters that aspect. They should have given skills that
enhance the class's innate abilities. For a cleric, imo that would be skills that
help survivability & improve ability to heal.
I didn't want a skill to let me deal more damage--I became a cleric in order to be
a support player. My goal for end-game was to participate in group pk--I'd heal,
buff & debuff while my friends did the actual fighting. But I can't do this
effectively because I'm usually killed by a sin before I know he's even there.
Giving clerics an increase-dd skill is tantamount to giving barbs a weak magic-based
attack skill. Doesn't really fit the class, and doesn't really do a whole lot of good
because they aren't built for that. Yeah, there might be times here & there where
it comes in handy, but overall, it's fail because they're trying to fit a round
peg into a square hole, so to speak.
The skills should enhance the foundation purpose of the class, not try to make
them into something they're not.0 -
KawaiiJen - Heavens Tear wrote: »I'm sorry but clerics are a pure SUPPORT class in this game. The fact that they gave you a "Metal Mage" mode which isn't that bad considering, though doesn't match other DD casters (obviously as they aren't SUPPORT classes). You should be grateful they gave you the chance to do more "DD abilities" >_>
Which is PRECISELY the reason that the update for clerics was bs. And the idea that they should be happy to get a laughable increase in damage (still putting it as some of the worst in the game) that comes at the cost or our ability to do what our class is meant for, I don't get at all. That's stupid. Cleric should have gotten an anti stun. Clerics should have been the ones given invigorate instead of violet dance to address the fact that the mystic is so much better at offense while still being able to heal almost as well. Instead of closing the gap with violet dance but then widening even more by giving mystics that skill at the cost of NONE of their heals. I can see why mystics were the ones given verdant blessing but they already had a better way of increasing the squads damage while still maintaining the ability to heal well.
Instead what they do, close the gap between a mystic healing and a cleric without taking away anything from the class. While at the same time they closed the gap a smaller amount between a cleric and a mystic's damage (before invigorate), but at the cost of the biggest reason to have one in squad.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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1) lacking courage or resolution; cowardly; faint-hearted
2) Proceeding from or indicating a cowardly spirit0 -
VenusArmani - Dreamweaver wrote: »Which is PRECISELY the reason that the update for clerics was bs. And the idea that they should be happy to get a laughable increase in damage (still putting it as some of the worst in the game) that comes at the cost or our ability to do what our class is meant for, I don't get at all. That's stupid. Cleric should have gotten an anti stun. Clerics should have been the ones given invigorate instead of violet dance to address the fact that the mystic is so much better at offense while still being able to heal almost as well. Instead of closing the gap with violet dance but then widening even more by giving mystics that skill at the cost of NONE of their heals. I can see why mystics were the ones given verdant blessing but they already had a better way of increasing the squads damage while still maintaining the ability to heal well.
Instead what they do, close the gap between a mystic healing and a cleric without taking away anything from the class. While at the same time they closed the gap a smaller amount between a cleric and a mystic's damage (before invigorate), but at the cost of the biggest reason to have one in squad.
I agree i have both cleric and mystic, on mystic all Morai skills are great, you didn't mention it, but also the shroud skill for mystic is Mystical Eye (Lists all stealthed units within 50 meters. After 6 seconds, non-party members within 25 meters
with an equal or lower player level will be forced out of stealth.), it's not a anti stun, but it's awesome skill that can be use in PvP and TW.
On cleric i don't even want all Morai skills while on mystic i want all of them.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
b:dirty "I **** rainbows and love everyone"-Longknife b:cute0 -
I got Ancestors Blessing now I'm done with Morai on this char. I agree with eveything said here. All they have to do now for mystics is give them BB and clerics can all retire.0
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Just saying...mystic's damage is nothing like cleric's damage. What MM mode did is close the gap between cleric damage and wizard damage...among other things. Mystics still suck in damage output...I've watched R9 mystics nuke and nuke and nuke and get charm tanked, even more hopeless than archer auto attacking a heavy.Elena Costel: I wash my hands of this affair.
Legerity: *drags you back* *stains your hands with said affair*
Elena Costel: Noooo... I don't want to have a dirty affair with Lady Legerity...
Qui: b:dirty0 -
What Quilue says.
Cleric damage is dreadful, and even more in Violet Dance mode.
But clearly, the only thing that define a cleric now is BB and Revive.
And that's sad.0 -
Prophete - Dreamweaver wrote: »What Quilue says.
Cleric damage is dreadful, and even more in Violet Dance mode.
But clearly, the only thing that define a cleric now is BB and Revive.
And that's sad.
Even revive, with mystic ress buff, it's almost not needed anymore, with mystic the person ress with half hp (or full for demon) and with Gaia's blessing, healing herb, vital herb and comforting mist (lol mystic have 4 AOE heals) that can be use all in same time it's better healing than BB, that just don't cut the damage.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
b:dirty "I **** rainbows and love everyone"-Longknife b:cute0 -
clerics should have better skills and defenses for PVP/PK, even at lower levels since they are so squishy.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"perfect world isnt perfect, but its better than this so called "reality""0 -
What clerics need is some difficult instance where their healing are needed again.0
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Prophete - Dreamweaver wrote: »What clerics need is some difficult instance where their healing are needed again.
I will not go to full warsong or warsong elite without a cleric. I did it with a myst solo healer and it was ...well...b:beatupGo Pure or go Fail
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Status of PvP in RT
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