I cant decide between sage and demon

fatuss
fatuss Posts: 3 Arc User
edited July 2012 in Mystic
Well, after i had read the posts that provides a good amount of info about sage and demon comparation for mystic, i still cant decide between them, for what i understood, sage gives a great advantage in chi gaining (and that means kind of more ultis and powerful skills) and demons seems to be more of alot of debuff skills to improve your damage and better survivability on 1v1 situations (be it pve or pvp), i mean i really like to aoe a lot, but still dont want to lose great opportunities in pvp.

So my question is: is there some basic points to think carefully at the moment of choosing between sage or demon in this class in particular?

Because the last thing i (or everyone )wants is making a choice you can regret later on at this point.

Thanks for your attention and/or possible answers.
That awkward moment when you dont play this PW in particular,
but you still use its forum because is more helpful than your equivalent....
Post edited by fatuss on
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Comments

  • LuciferV - Raging Tide
    LuciferV - Raging Tide Posts: 381 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    A sage

    and myself a demon
    Don't F. with me, I F. back ;)
  • Fail_BM - Raging Tide
    Fail_BM - Raging Tide Posts: 929 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    The way you play your mystic looks a lot more interestingb:chuckle
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  • Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands
    Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands Posts: 7,231 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    Sage or demon doesn't really have more survivability, that become more from your gears.

    Read the skill you use the most, check demon/sage version and choose what you personally prefer.

    I understand you, mystic was the class i needed the more time to choose demon or sage, if you ask people you will probably have half saying sage and the other half saying demon so at the end you will need to choose yourself.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

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  • risingblood
    risingblood Posts: 21 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    fatuss wrote: »
    Well, after i had read the posts that provides a good amount of info about sage and demon comparation for mystic, i still cant decide between them, for what i understood, sage gives a great advantage in chi gaining (and that means kind of more ultis and powerful skills) and demons seems to be more of alot of debuff skills to improve your damage and better survivability on 1v1 situations (be it pve or pvp), i mean i really like to aoe a lot, but still dont want to lose great opportunities in pvp.

    So my question is: is there some basic points to think carefully at the moment of choosing between sage or demon in this class in particular?

    Because the last thing i (or everyone )wants is making a choice you can regret later on at this point.

    Thanks for your attention and/or possible answers.

    If you're into PVP, go demon. I'm a demon mystic and I absolutely love it. It may be true that mystics gain chi really fast by using Natures Vengeance, but when your in PVP mode you have to spam Break in the Clouds to gain chi. This is where demon has the advantage because it is exactly the same as sage Natures Vengeance in a chance to gain extra chi. Also, pet summons give you extra Chi as well, i'm not sure if only for demon but that extra chi really helps in PVP as well.
  • uncleblademaster
    uncleblademaster Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    You posted on my question that Sage>Demon. Thought you made up your mind lol
  • Xainou - Sanctuary
    Xainou - Sanctuary Posts: 5,369 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    What I did was check the list with the skills. Dismissed the ones I didn't care about, then compared the ones I found important.

    In the end the decision was pretty clear for me, demon offered pretty much nothing superiour for my personal playstyle. So I went sage and don't regret it one single bit :)
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  • Shulkie - Dreamweaver
    Shulkie - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,529 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    remember the sage/demon question is no longer a decision you have to live with (although fairly expensive to change and reskill)
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  • Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands
    Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands Posts: 7,231 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    Shulkie - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    remember the sage/demon question is no longer a decision you have to live with (although fairly expensive to change and reskill)

    Well that can be change but that can be really long cause the person need to done the cultivation and need the 10 gold item to switch + loose the skills demon/sage you had.

    For the PvP thing, i'm sage and at 95% of the time the people trying to pk me fail and finish dead , so it's more about be skilled than sage or demon.

    A bad mystic won't be better in PvP cause he choose demon, a good mystic will be good nvm sage or demon.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    b:dirty "I **** rainbows and love everyone"-Longknife b:cute
  • thumbs
    thumbs Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    I think the deciding factor originally for me was the easy chi in PvE. After declaring I used no pots in an RB wave 3 run (and yes did use Storm Mistress AoE); someone else indicated it's because I was Sage. -something to maybe consider
  • fatuss
    fatuss Posts: 3 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    After a bit of quick research made in ecatomb i found that sage has:

    Nature vengance has a 20% proc to gain chi so: NV*5= 30 extra chi at the cost of 750 mana

    Absorb soul always give a 10 extra chi

    Bramble tornado has a 25% proc to cast without using chi so: BT*4= 30 at the cost of 1,240 mana

    While demon has:
    Break in the cloud has a 20% proc to gain 25 chi so: Bitc*5=25 extra chi at the cost of 1400 mana

    And every summon ( i didnt count cragglord) always give extra 15 chi at its respective mana cost..

    I made the calculations based in the times the skill needed to be used to get a 100% proc chance not in the luck someone could have to activate the proc.

    So that way is evident that chi gaining is better for sage seeming it has more places to get it.

    Still after using Xainou idea(post #7, dont know why it didnt occur to me) i decided for demon, being it for me the only appealing bonus from sage the 9 seconds from energy leech, wood mastery 25% damge bonus and the proc from rapid growth.

    Being my gameplay more of a soloist, i can take my sweet time to gain chi and/or cast skills, since i will not always feel the pressure to cast ultis or required skill to help the squad (though that doesnt mean i will never be on one) the only major letdown i felt from demon was verdant shell, since i like pvp but not that much to really enjoy its proc.

    I fondly thank you all for having the amability to take your time reading and making answers, and giving critical views to aid me.
    That awkward moment when you dont play this PW in particular,
    but you still use its forum because is more helpful than your equivalent....
  • TwentyTwoTwo - Raging Tide
    TwentyTwoTwo - Raging Tide Posts: 85 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    Sage you will gain chi by skill spamming with NV and 50 chi skill, Demon you gain chi a little faster while heal spamming with BitC. also if you don't care for a little mana lose you can continually cast your Demon summons. Also don't count on Sage Absorb soul's +10 chi gain, makes no difference unless you have more then -75% channeling.

    *The reason i say you gain chi faster while Demon is because you don't need a target to cast obviously for it's a heal.
  • Retsuko - Heavens Tear
    Retsuko - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,016 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    TwentyTwoTwo - Raging Tide wrote: »
    *The reason i say you gain chi faster while Demon is because you don't need a target to cast obviously for it's a heal.

    People can discuss as much as they want, these threads always turn into troll food. But to see people come up with dumb reasons like this on why one is better then the other is stupid.

    Like this what i quoted. If you want to do nothing but just heal yourself for chi, by my guest. I'd rather be useful and earn my chi in a useful way or use cloud eruption. But when you look at it. Does it really make that much of a difference?

    When healing with sage, you get 10 chi per heal. So let's say you do it 20 times, you got 200 chi. While demon gets 260 chi on average with 20 times of healing. So by doing nothing, as demon you only have a 60 chi advantage over sage with that many times of healing.
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  • TwentyTwoTwo - Raging Tide
    TwentyTwoTwo - Raging Tide Posts: 85 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    That's all your little brain took from that, is I was trolling?

    Tell me where I said one was better then the other, Im a SAGE btw genius.

    The O.P. mentioned chi, so i mentioned Demons have a similar skill to sage NV which is demon BitC. And it can be used ANYTIME.

    Im the furthest from a troll so take that theory, put it in your back pocket and debate someone else who's unfortunate enough to be on your intelligence level.
  • LuciferV - Raging Tide
    LuciferV - Raging Tide Posts: 381 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    Blahhh Blahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh Blaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
    Don't F. with me, I F. back ;)
  • Retsuko - Heavens Tear
    Retsuko - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,016 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    TwentyTwoTwo - Raging Tide wrote: »
    That's all your little brain took from that, is I was trolling?

    Instead of ranting like a moron about "intelligence". Can you quote me on where I said that you were trolling?

    Anyways, to stay ontopic. I've mentioned the difference between the chi gain you get between sage and demon while healing. I've forgot that sage mystics have another skill that they can use to get 50 chi instantly while not doing anything.

    So to sum it up. After 20 heals, sage mystics can get 250 chi if you include the sage chi skill. And demons get on average 260. So only a difference of 10 chi on average. It could be more or less.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    playing Faction Wars Again.
  • Brillance - Raging Tide
    Brillance - Raging Tide Posts: 1,643 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    fatuss wrote: »
    After a bit of quick research made in ecatomb i found that sage has:

    Nature vengance has a 20% proc to gain chi so: NV*5= 30 extra chi at the cost of 750 mana

    While demon has:

    Break in the cloud has a 20% proc to gain 25 chi so: Bitc*5=25 extra chi at the cost of 1400 mana

    Seems to me Demon is using quite a bit more Mana than Sage for 5 less points Chi.


    Being Sage, I already feel like I burn through mana.

    Anyone have any mathematical thoughts on the balance between Mana useage and Chi gained between Sage & Demon? b:thanks
  • Eoria - Harshlands
    Eoria - Harshlands Posts: 6,118 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    No one gives a **** about MP usage past level 75.
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  • Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands
    Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands Posts: 7,231 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    Eoria - Harshlands wrote: »
    No one gives a **** about MP usage past level 75.

    Even before lvl 75 i didn't care xD
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    b:dirty "I **** rainbows and love everyone"-Longknife b:cute
  • VoItaire - Harshlands
    VoItaire - Harshlands Posts: 1,033 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    Eoria - Harshlands wrote: »
    No one gives a **** about MP usage past level 75.

    I can't stress this enough. Seriously, I question anyone who would make such an important choice based on mana. It might be different if mana actually added anything to the gameplay of this game, but it's just a coin sink. An easily affordable one at that.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Xainou - Sanctuary
    Xainou - Sanctuary Posts: 5,369 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    Besides that fact that it's an idiotic statement...

    Look at the sage summons. Still got any doubts on sage using less mp overall? rofl
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  • Brillance - Raging Tide
    Brillance - Raging Tide Posts: 1,643 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    I think it would be nice if someone could answer my inquiry without making idiotic statements that dont answer my inquiry. b:chuckle

    @ Eoria - obviously I would like know. Sorry if that makes you mad. Why does it make you mad that I would like to know? *shrugs*


    @ Bella - Im happy for you, sweetie.

    @ Voltaire - There happens to be a reason - other than cost to replace MP - that I asked.


    Im skipping Xainou's comment because I have no clue who he's even talking to. I dont see anyone expressing any doubt - except the OP on which way to go. o_O *shrugs somemore*

    If you are NOT mathematicly inclined, or simply cant understand the question - how about just shutting the F up instead of making yourself look like a ranting moron?? Thanks :)

    The inquiry is:

    Anyone have any mathematical thoughts on the balance between Mana useage and Chi gained between Sage & Demon?
  • Xainou - Sanctuary
    Xainou - Sanctuary Posts: 5,369 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    So much win, so much win. lol
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  • Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands
    Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands Posts: 7,231 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    Mana FTW!!!!! Woot.

    Chi>mana no one care the cost of mp all they want is chi, people past lvl 75 use herbs.

    I'm sage myself and like it, but if someone choose sage cost the mp cost reduced he/she is a idiot.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    b:dirty "I **** rainbows and love everyone"-Longknife b:cute
  • Brillance - Raging Tide
    Brillance - Raging Tide Posts: 1,643 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    The inquiry is:

    Anyone have any mathematical thoughts on the balance between Mana useage and Chi gained between Sage & Demon?
  • Xainou - Sanctuary
    Xainou - Sanctuary Posts: 5,369 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    Just do your math yourself. Noone of use cares about it. So surely you are smart enough to just figure it out. b:chuckle
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  • VoItaire - Harshlands
    VoItaire - Harshlands Posts: 1,033 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    Brillance - Raging Tide wrote: »
    I think it would be nice if someone could answer my inquiry without making idiotic statements that dont answer my inquiry. b:chuckle

    @ Eoria - obviously I would like know. Sorry if that makes you mad. Why does it make you mad that I would like to know? *shrugs*


    @ Bella - Im happy for you, sweetie.

    @ Voltaire - There happens to be a reason - other than cost to replace MP - that I asked.


    Im skipping Xainou's comment because I have no clue who he's even talking to. I dont see anyone expressing any doubt - except the OP on which way to go. o_O *shrugs somemore*

    If you are NOT mathematicly inclined, or simply cant understand the question - how about just shutting the F up instead of making yourself look like a ranting moron?? Thanks :)

    The inquiry is:

    Anyone have any mathematical thoughts on the balance between Mana useage and Chi gained between Sage & Demon?

    Really not sure where in my post existed a quote or mention of Brillance. That post wasn't in direct response to anyone, I made a statement because I often see mana mentioned as a factor, which for reasons stated in my earlier post, are quite silly. If I were to respond to anyone with a post between ours, I'd quote them.
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  • Brillance - Raging Tide
    Brillance - Raging Tide Posts: 1,643 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    VoItaire - Harshlands wrote: »
    Really not sure where in my post existed a quote or mention of Brillance. That post wasn't in direct response to anyone, I made a statement because I often see mana mentioned as a factor, which for reasons stated in my earlier post, are quite silly. If I were to respond to anyone with a post between ours, I'd quote them.

    Golly gee, and here I was thinking the thread was about someone desiding whether to go Sage or Demon. I guess random off topic comments about whether you think someone is worried about mana or not - when no one has said that they are indeed worried about mana - easily belong here.

    Well, you got a random off topic reply to your random off topic post, nonetheless. And, I have yet to see that rule on the forums that says, "Post only when you are posted to!" b:chuckle


    Here is where I will tell everyone why I asked.

    People say it doesnt really matter which way you go.

    If it truely doesn't really matter which way you go then there has to be some balance to it.

    If Im spending almost double the mana for a spell as Demon, that will earn me 5 points less Chi, then its unbalanced for Demon, how ever slightly.

    I dont care who thinks its important or not. I would still like to know if it truely doesn't matter.

    It would probably be interesting to anyone that was at the point of chosing which way they would like to go. Maybe a free player who doesnt earn a lot of coin at level 89 would find the mana savings to be useful to them.

    Then again, if there is some other way that this is balanced out for a level 89, then it truely might not matter to them anymore than it mattered to you, VoItaire.
  • Xainou - Sanctuary
    Xainou - Sanctuary Posts: 5,369 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    if you can't afford the mana, you probably shoulldn't roll a mystic in the first place. b:laugh
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  • Brillance - Raging Tide
    Brillance - Raging Tide Posts: 1,643 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    Xainou - Sanctuary wrote: »
    if you can't afford the mana, you probably shoulldn't roll a mystic in the first place. b:laugh

    Now why would you tell any free player they shouldn't roll any character? Are you afraid of the answer, Xai?

    Are you afraid a mathematical answer will prove it MIGHT matter which way someone goes?

    Are you afraid to see someone who can do math and understands the inquiry post?

    Are you jelly, cause you can't answer it yourself? b:laugh
  • Xainou - Sanctuary
    Xainou - Sanctuary Posts: 5,369 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    I'd like to answer that with another 'Are you...' but sorry, I refuse to drop down to your low level insult niveau :)
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