Blades of Bloodlust: Sky

sinfulnature
sinfulnature Posts: 1 Arc User
edited July 2012 in Assassin
I was wondering if getting the Blades of Bloodlust: Sky Dags (101 Morai Dags with +60 slaying) would be better for PvE, FC, Farming... I am 3.33 with r8+6 with 2x +32 attack shards atm... i will be working towards (i have about about 40mill and 9 raps or so) Niv dags...

Well would it be good to get those for PvE or just stay with r8 till i can get Niv dags... thanks
Post edited by sinfulnature on

Comments

  • angelmanuel1
    angelmanuel1 Posts: 2 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    If you are saving money for nirvana daggers don't use it on morai daggers. Morai's daggers cost 17.5 mill, you can buy 16-17 raptures with that money...

    Just to let you know, morai's daggers can deal more damage than nirvana daggers, but you can get -int on them.
  • Fail_BM - Raging Tide
    Fail_BM - Raging Tide Posts: 929 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    angelmanuel1 wrote: »
    If you are saving money for nirvana daggers don't use it on morai daggers. Morai's daggers cost 17.5 mill, you can buy 16-17 raptures with that money...

    Just to let you know, morai's daggers can deal more damage than nirvana daggers, but you can get -int on them.
    My avatar QQ
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  • Kawaiiiii - Raging Tide
    Kawaiiiii - Raging Tide Posts: 310 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    go nv but dont stop at t1.
    go t3.
    +10 w/ Tisha: youtube.com/watch?v=tKHuXP8LRFU&feature=plcp
  • witniss
    witniss Posts: 517 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    angelmanuel1 wrote: »
    If you are saving money for nirvana daggers don't use it on morai daggers. Morai's daggers cost 17.5 mill, you can buy 16-17 raptures with that money...

    Just to let you know, morai's daggers can deal more damage than nirvana daggers, but you can't get -int on them.

    fixed for you
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  • Geshwur - Raging Tide
    Geshwur - Raging Tide Posts: 570 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    If you're debating about getting Morai daggers for PvE, you should know that in order to out DD Morai, you need T2 with good ads or better... The important thing to remember is that Morai daggers have SLAYING levels, which are PvE only, but because of the mechanic there, it stacks up SEPERATE from attack levels.

    So, if you run Morai endgame at 4APS Full DoT W/ a Jones you'll have somewhere around 50 attack levels maybe more depending on how many sockets you have in each piece, which means 150% damage, +60 slaying levels (+50% PvE Damage) which means you get another 50% on top of the 150% damage, putting you at 225% damage... Granted that sounds like more than it actually is (due to the low base damage of Morai weapons) but it IS still quite nice damage, and while it's not on calc yet, I imagine that with good ads and everything, it COULD be comparable to T2 Nirvy or R9 daggers for PvE...
    Current Gears
    pwcalc.com/90f636550cbd5beb
  • witniss
    witniss Posts: 517 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    Geshwur - Raging Tide wrote: »
    If you're debating about getting Morai daggers for PvE, you should know that in order to out DD Morai, you need T2 with good ads or better... The important thing to remember is that Morai daggers have SLAYING levels, which are PvE only, but because of the mechanic there, it stacks up SEPERATE from attack levels.

    So, if you run Morai endgame at 4APS Full DoT W/ a Jones you'll have somewhere around 50 attack levels maybe more depending on how many sockets you have in each piece, which means 150% damage, +60 slaying levels (+50% PvE Damage) which means you get another 50% on top of the 150% damage, putting you at 225% damage... Granted that sounds like more than it actually is (due to the low base damage of Morai weapons) but it IS still quite nice damage, and while it's not on calc yet, I imagine that with good ads and everything, it COULD be comparable to T2 Nirvy or R9 daggers for PvE...

    tbh i thought that was olbaze b:surrender
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Geshwur - Raging Tide
    Geshwur - Raging Tide Posts: 570 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    witniss wrote: »
    tbh i thought that was olbaze b:surrender

    Nah... Olba would have haxed up a PWCalc to prove the DPS b:chuckle

    But... I might as well post some numbers to increase the credibility of my statement...

    R8 - 216,477

    Hitman Legend - 233,073

    Barrier Thorns - 238,016

    G15 Morai - 270,562 DPS
    For these I assumed +130 max phys attack x2 + 19 dex

    R9 - 304,918

    T2 with sac strike, -int and +130 max phys - 305,649

    R9 T2 - 323,811

    2nd cast R8 with GoF, +20 Dex, and +180 max physical attack - 339,367

    T3 w/ -int, +max phys, +1% crit = 339,462

    I used this for my base, and didn't factor in wolf emblem or anything like that.

    All daggers I assumed +12 with 2 Garnet Gems

    Also note, that most of the "random adds" daggers I used were fairly un-realistic ads, but not so un-realistic to be considered impossible, (except the R8 recast ones... the odds of that are pretty dang low...)
    Current Gears
    pwcalc.com/90f636550cbd5beb
  • krulx
    krulx Posts: 5 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    atm im only 3.33 with morai G15/ r8 , 5aps with T1 nirvana.

    Morai and Nirvana are both +5
    R8 is +7 with 2x Perfect garns.

    of the three, Morai does the most pve damage followed by r8, and finally nirvana.

    Nirvana is still better for tanking due to bp return and easier perma spark, but at 4aps (when i get tome) i'll start using morai for everything

    morai adds are 18 dex, 106 P attack and 1 defense lvl
  • nashman2
    nashman2 Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    Geshwur - Raging Tide wrote: »
    All daggers I assumed +12 with 2 Garnet Gems

    Had to lol at that, but alright.

    Comparatively, here is what the OP needs to know:

    ~Morai will out dd G13.
    ~Its the same issue with R8 that yes it has higher damage, but you also will "only" be 4 aps since you can't get interval, limiting some of the combo's you can use, for instance if you Rib Strike a boss or are sealed for a few seconds you may need to also use a chi skill to get back up to 3 sparks.
    ~Morai starts with a lower base damage but has slaying levels. Geshwur was right in his example that attack levels and slaying levels multiply each other. The more attack levels you have in your build the more efficient Morai daggers are, and the less attack levels you have the less efficient Morai daggers are. If you live with an O'Malleys instead of Jones blessing than Morai might not be for you.
    ~Morai has a lower refine rate, but a higher refine ratio. Because 60 slaying levels is basically 150% more damage you get 1.5x more from each refine, so the higher the refine the more appealing Morai become.
    ~Morai obviously suck at pvp because what makes them good is the slaying levels. On the other hand, they have very decent dph and dps for pve.
    ~Morai are a 'dead end' set of daggers. Very worth the 17.5 mil if you don't plan on going farther, very not worth it you plan on going a Nirvana path since you'll need those daggers anyways.


    In priority of best to worst (in my opinion) the obvious R9t3 and R9t2, then Nirvana tier 3, then Nirvana tier 2 (zerk and -int add make it more valuable to me than Morai or R8r), R8r, Morai, R8, G13. This is consider dps, dph, cost, pvp, attack speed, and other gear requirements. For PvP having zerks is almost priceless. For PvE permasparking and spark resisting and chi versatility add alot to all aspects of a sin. I've criticized G13 for their low end damage and for pvp and aoeing its a drawback. So all things considered that's how I'd rank the daggers available.

    Morai and R8 also almost "require" a tome to use since you'll be 3.33 and not perma sparked without one. So do many other daggers, like G15s. The only real daggers that are worth it without a tome are G13 and then it becomes important to have to expand your gear defensively which still requires a tome. R8 daggers are essentially 2m price, since you'll get the plate anyways so they make a great dagger to use while farming your real endgame, whether its R9 path, Nirvana path, or Morai.

    So back to Morai. General sum-up is they're great daggers and can be used endgame for pve, not for pvp, but are a dead-end. It's your choice if spending 17m now to have something that may be replaced later is worth it.
  • Olbaze - Sanctuary
    Olbaze - Sanctuary Posts: 4,242 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    Geshwur - Raging Tide wrote: »
    Nah... Olba would have haxed up a PWCalc to prove the DPS b:chuckle
    For these I assumed +130 max phys attack x2 + 19 dex
    T2 with sac strike, -int and +130 max phys - 305,649
    2nd cast R8 with GoF, +20 Dex, and +180 max physical attack - 339,367
    T3 w/ -int, +max phys, +1% crit = 339,462
    All daggers I assumed +12 with 2 Garnet Gems

    Also note, that most of the "random adds" daggers I used were fairly un-realistic ads, but not so un-realistic to be considered impossible, (except the R8 recast ones... the odds of that are pretty dang low...)

    No, just no.

    When you're comparing setups where some have variable mods and others have random mods, you should always assume worst possible mods. This is because it's not interesting to know how a weapon could compare to others if it had some magical mods, but rather how it will compare with the mods that people usually go for.

    I find it utterly ridiculous that you assume a one-off perfect G15 Nirvana, yet a rather questionable recast R8 and again a highly unlikely G16 Nirvana.

    Personally I prefer to use 2 shards only when it's a 100% chance, since every weapon that is not 100% has like 10% chance to be 2 sockets.

    Also, I think the base you use is highly craptastic for the following reasons:
    Love:Up and Down
    R9 ring
    Full DoT sharding

    R9 ring should only be used when R9 is one of the pieces that is being compared. Love:Up and Down I would personally never use because it's a crappy item for the cost. Finally, DoT sharding might be arguable because you have the G16 Nirvana here.

    It's past midnight so that's all I'm gonna do for now.
    I am Olba. Not Ol, not Baze nor Blaze. And even less would I go by Olblaze. Please, take a second to read a person's username.
    If you see b:cute be sure to take a second, calm look at anything I said.
  • Sakubatou - Sanctuary
    Sakubatou - Sanctuary Posts: 4,001 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »
    No, just no.

    When you're comparing setups where some have variable mods and others have random mods, you should always assume worst possible mods. This is because it's not interesting to know how a weapon could compare to others if it had some magical mods, but rather how it will compare with the mods that people usually go for.

    I find it utterly ridiculous that you assume a one-off perfect G15 Nirvana, yet a rather questionable recast R( and again a highly unlikely G16 Nirvana.

    Personally I prefer to use 2 shards only when it's a 100% chance, since every weapon that is not 100% has like 10% chance to be 2 sockets.

    Also, I think the base you use is highly craptastic for the following reasons:
    Love:Up and Down
    R9 ring
    Full DoT sharding

    R9 ring should only be used when R9 is one of the pieces that is being compared. Love:Up and Down I would personally never use because it's a crappy item for the cost. Finally, DoT sharding might be arguable because you have the G16 Nirvana here.

    It's past midnight so that's all I'm gonna do for now.

    You saw me quote and scrutinize the +12 2 socket aspect but I let the things go you mentioned. The tome, he's going to want a -int tome endgame no matter what. Most people will settle for Pan Gu's but the difference, even in pwcalcs, isn't huge. Also, when I calc out daggers with random add-ons I usually use only 2 adds, the one that is our goal (either -int, GoF, SS, or +atk levels), and a mediocre one like +106 max attack instead of +130. Most people aim for a specific add on or two and then don't care about the rest, so having 3 or 4 ideal add-ons is ridiculous.

    The r9 ring is... valid enough. I plan on going R9 ring for two main reasons. It has +96 more phys attack (thats like refining from +9 to +10 again) and it has +5 def levels which works against magic attacks without having to use a CoA ring. It's a very valid endgame choice, even without a single other piece of R9. Admittedly its out of the reach for most people though and R8 ring is probably better used in calcs for an "average".

    DoT sharding... I'm not all for DoT sharding. Attack levels hit a ceiling and start losing their potential, it also makes for squishier sins that have trouble soloing or even tanking some bosses and makes you a glass cannon in PvP, a one shot. For the Morai daggers it makes sense because you basically get 1.5 attack levels for each 1 attack level because of slaying levels, but your dagger choice would influence your sharding. For instance with zerk daggers DoTs help increase paint return but you also need increased survivability from shards to compensate the zerking.

    This made me check the OPs server... Harshlands. These are PvE daggers on a PvP server. You'll need something better to PvP with. R8 work fine but switching in an instant can be a pain and I'd really suggest saving your coin for something that satisfies both pvp and pve.
    Seven 100+ characters leveled the hard way. Free to play. Mystic, Psychic, and Wizard left to level. b:victory
  • Geshwur - Raging Tide
    Geshwur - Raging Tide Posts: 570 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »
    No, just no.

    When you're comparing setups where some have variable mods and others have random mods, you should always assume worst possible mods. This is because it's not interesting to know how a weapon could compare to others if it had some magical mods, but rather how it will compare with the mods that people usually go for.

    I find it utterly ridiculous that you assume a one-off perfect G15 Nirvana, yet a rather questionable recast R( and again a highly unlikely G16 Nirvana.

    Personally I prefer to use 2 shards only when it's a 100% chance, since every weapon that is not 100% has like 10% chance to be 2 sockets.

    Also, I think the base you use is highly craptastic for the following reasons:
    Love:Up and Down
    R9 ring
    Full DoT sharding

    R9 ring should only be used when R9 is one of the pieces that is being compared. Love:Up and Down I would personally never use because it's a crappy item for the cost. Finally, DoT sharding might be arguable because you have the G16 Nirvana here.

    It's past midnight so that's all I'm gonna do for now.

    Every set of ads I've built on there I've seen before in-game... IJS (With the exception of R8 recast, that one I was curious how an optimistic setup stacked up against med-high tier G16 Nirvy.) Most of these daggers were intended to show REALISTIC goals for the daggers as no self respecting sin is going to settle for "Worst possible" ads.

    Most of those weren't even the BEST DPS ads I've seen on those particular daggers... Trii_Edge on RT has GoF, -int and +130 max attack if I'm not mistaken, also R9 daggers WERE compared, therefore in order to keep balance as it would be illogical that a sin using R9 daggers would not use the ring, but using the R9 ring ONLY on the R9 daggers would be ridiculously un-balanced.

    Also, for the DoT sharding, the post was in response to someone commenting on my statement that the Attack levels and Slaying levels are two separate multipliers, and therefore a combination of the two would do great DPS. In fact, this whole post was intended to demonstrate where Morai daggers fall in comparison to others as an endgame DPS option, DoT sharding maximizes DPS for all weapons.

    Also, if you assume 2 sockets for any weapon, you should assume it for all for equality, shards can ALWAYS be added if you have enough coin, and for any final-endgame build a sin will more than likely have added a second socket if it wasn't there before. I've seen you compare DPS of weapons before, and while it is true, when you do you do indeed take worst possible ads, but you also assume two socket garnet gems.
    Current Gears
    pwcalc.com/90f636550cbd5beb
  • _Skai_ - Raging Tide
    _Skai_ - Raging Tide Posts: 3,407 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Love:Up and Down I would personally never use because it's a crappy item for the cost.

    I bought my Love tome for 200m b:avoid

    And sold my Pan Gu for 230m b:laugh
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  • Empu - Sanctuary
    Empu - Sanctuary Posts: 1,154 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    _Skai_ - Raging Tide wrote: »
    I bought my Love tome for 200m b:avoid

    And sold my Pan Gu for 230m b:laugh

    The seller must have fainted for trading with the great Skai.
    The buyer must have put the tome on the wall, to show off equipment used by the great Skai.

    But not everyone has the privilege of being a celebrity ... We random strangers buy and sell at normal prices b:surrender

    b:avoid
  • _Skai_ - Raging Tide
    _Skai_ - Raging Tide Posts: 3,407 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    xD nah I would never exploit my name like that. I got the tome back around September of last year, when well.. I don't think I was that popular back then.

    But basically that was around the time someone abused the **** out of sending himself Scroll of Tomes and flooded the market with them in the AH for 200m each. When I bought mine there was only 1 left in the AH, and I thought I just got extremely lucky. I borrowed 200m from a factionmate and got it. Then later found out that someone "mass duped" them.

    A bit after the prices for -int tomes rose again, I sold my Pan Gu for 230m to pay my factionmate back. So that's how I upgraded to a Love tome and profited.

    Needless to say I wouldn't have upgraded to a Love tome if I didn't get this kind of opportunity. Paying 100m extra for ~12 stat boosts over Pan Gu, with some of which being magic, isn't worth it.

    And now the thread is derailed! xD

    Edit: After rewatching my first gears video, I was one of the sins who didn't prioritize their refines, but still had no problem with that setup due to knowing how to play. I +12'd my daggers while leaving most of my other gear +5-+6, but from what I remember I rarely died back then in PvE ;o. But wow, I don't remember being one of those sins who spent all their coin +12ing their weapon and leaving the rest of the gear unbalanced in refines.
    [SIGPIC]Octavia is best pony[/SIGPIC]
    Vicious's Brony. Brohoof!
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  • Geshwur - Raging Tide
    Geshwur - Raging Tide Posts: 570 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    _Skai_ - Raging Tide wrote: »
    Edit: After rewatching my first gears video, I was one of the sins who didn't prioritize their refines, but still had no problem with that setup due to knowing how to play. I +12'd my daggers while leaving most of my other gear +5-+6, but from what I remember I rarely died back then in PvE ;o. But wow, I don't remember being one of those sins who spent all their coin +12ing their weapon and leaving the rest of the gear unbalanced in refines.

    It's pretty common to see sins +10-12 their stuff before going higher than +5-6 on their gears... I'm definitely one of them, and I have a reason for doing it that way, not just that I want maximum DPS (though that IS a part...) but also because I feel like once I learn to survive all the aggro I pull and my over-enthusiastic killing-machine play-style with ~6.2-6.4K HP base, I'll be able to survive better using what I learned when I have 10-12K HP. I'm just debating what to do now that my daggers are +11, get R9 ring, +6-7 my gears or +12...
    Current Gears
    pwcalc.com/90f636550cbd5beb
  • sachelfunlol
    sachelfunlol Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    work on your refines on your other gear. balance it between orns and other gear.
    Lets troll the forums together b:victory
  • Geshwur - Raging Tide
    Geshwur - Raging Tide Posts: 570 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    sachelfunlol wrote: »
    work on your refines on your other gear. balance it between orns and other gear.

    Well first thing I plan on refining is hat, then neckie, then pants, then belt then the rest... I don't wanna be one of the sins with +11/12 dags, +10 gears and like... +5 ornaments... >.> I would rather get all to +6 then 7 then one piece at a time to 10, and I see more benefit getting orns +10 than the TT99 boots/bracers... b:surrender

    Especially considering that when I get a chance I DO plan on swapping my boots and bracers out for Nirvy eventually since even at 4APS I'll out DD 5APS with G13... By QUITE a bit... xD
    Current Gears
    pwcalc.com/90f636550cbd5beb

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