Should squad mode TTs have a minimum number of squadmates required?

Solo mode allows you to open it with one person. b:cute

_DarkSeph_ - Sanctuary wrote: »

I guess the problem is that TT is an old instance and the game is flooded with aps.

At the moment, any player can multi client and wc for a few to open at 50k ea and solo with an aps character. There isn't really an easy "soloution" to it. If they make all the bosses anti-aps, veno's or r9's would farm it instead, still at a decent pace. If they make the bosses harder, it's unfair on the few genuine low levels farming their first set. If they boost drop rates, the solo players become even richer and the market crashes.

After thinking about it, maybe TT should just be left as it is and they should concentrate on new instances for farming coin. Nirvana was a good idea, but 2x has pretty much killed it most of the time.

Why not just put the anti-APS 'spell' / status effect on quite a few of the other bosses? Yeah if Tony Liu & PWI was really listening (but PWI learn about this when you start losing players -- I wish) to the "community" like he and his cohorts claim, then we wouldn't have this problem. Also while you're at it shove the APS Boss Status effect on some of the bosses in Warsong, Nirvana, Lunar.

Which makes me wonder, why it wasn't done bloody before instead of making an entire CASTER NIRVANA and creating more issues with the Caster Nirvana Bug that allowed people to redo it.

THAT IS ONE FIX!. If you haven't killed off the whole TT Market already.

As for mechanics in the game. Well what you should 'be doing' is making it so everyone gets a Nirvana Chest but the Uncanny Stones aren't trade-able. This would fix the whole banking issue and who got what if everyone got everything and you'd just have to have a quest in the list that gave everyone the chests as they killed the bosses. Simple solution isn't it? Funny that.

FragiIe - Dreamweaver wrote: »

might wanna rethink that color if you want anyone to read that...it hurts the eyes

At this point of 'the decay' in PW International I'd say it doesn't really matter. Whatever I suggest Frank and Tony Liu will never take the game seriously, let alone the color of the text I write in.

Hell even, Perfect World Malaysia did a better job than PW International. They (PW MY) shut off the Frost Walk City (You know it as FC) dungeon when the players said and hinted that they were getting a tad bit pissed off with all the fast leveling. What's more PW MY would put in the BH from time to time, but not all the time so it still taught people "how to play" least PW MY listened to the player-base and stopped Hyper Stones from being used in FC and PW MY did it so fast that it was barely one month and problem solved very fast. But I'm using that as an above example to demonstrate the difference between the two companies and I'd be assuming that PWI is a licensee like Cubizone *was*.

PW as a company to me, has really become the laughing stock of certain developers. I'll just chuck it on my s@#$ list with Joymax (which is another korean company that gets the blacklist). However I do have another list that has companies I *respect and have earned my respect & trust* Valve Software (PW puts their games on the Steam distribution platform.), Tripwire Interactive and Hi-Rez Entertainment.

I'm not promoting any other software or games. What I AM saying though its if PW wants to get back off my **** list (China, International or otherwise) it has to start really thinking about pricing structures in this and more of its products. The Fury update was probably a move in the right direction. But its still going to take a fair bit with new software and products coming out.

But Blacklight Retribution is only published by PW it isn't 'made' by PW as a company (Zombie Studios are doing it)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ju6Pi9Nbugk&
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4ro9oDIJU0&

Im wondering what would happen if PW International got reviewed like this or even by this guy.

TT is already over-farmed (especially during 2x). I still am wondering on how ALL of TT mats have not all gone dirt cheap by now. Your suggestion would only make it worse.

Nothing to add, so I am going to another thread. b:bye

Pwntmasta - Heavens Tear wrote: »

facepalm

you already need 4 people to open Twilight temple squad mode... so my question is why did you made a poll about it

He wanted to suppress the current squad mode altogether, reducing it to a solo mode without the ultimate sub fee and the same drops, from what it seems. b:surrender

Sir_comsizer - Archosaur wrote: »

I know the style of gameplay is to 'bring people together' but some people, basically, don't care about others. They want to play by themselves as they are happy doing it that way.

So why not give people, that want to play 'solo' in the game, a chance to gain the mats they need in TT, instead of relying on others to help them.

Make squad mode minimum of 2 people, 4 is daft

You know, in squad mode, people can leave leaving you to bully mobs and bosses alone or with whom you desire.

It's just about an entrance requirement of four people that annoys people so much? Seriously, that not a big deal, even when it comes to pay randoms to help you open the door... b:surrender

Sir_comsizer - Archosaur wrote: »

So if it's just an entrance requirement, why not put it down to 2 people? ( your allowed 2 acc so use both to open it )

Maybe TT will be of no interest if it's ever implemented. Think of it.

Aowenn - Archosaur wrote: »

or perhaps completely the opposite

You think so? Per extremely basic economic rules, too much of something makes it less desirable (hence its value dropping dramatically).

Check mirages, perfect stones, ultimate substances and tokens (except for some moments like the Aurora npc and the first appearance of munchkins... I mean genies).

Even when it comes to get TT mats to craft your armor or other piece of equipment, getting them too easily makes it a no-challenge deal. Have them put in packs, while you are at it. b:scorn

That said, I really would like to see the TT mats market plummet to the ground, thanks to such suggestions. b:sin

Sel_Darkmore - Dreamweaver wrote: »

ima put my thought of the matter...and say ..

"It Shouldnt matter to each his own"

TT "to me"..AGAIN i say "TO ME" is the best instance we have in PWI regarding the title "MMO". Cause its about the best instance that you can have a squad of several different levels and just have some fun farming or cutly/questing. You get the chance to meet others in many different level ranges, teach each other, learn how the other plays vice versa, interact with fellow fac mates/friends etc. I mean when i was in the level 40's I squaded up with 70,80,90, 100s....It better then FB cause Fb about every 10 levels only. TT is as many as u want and ofc better pay out.

Hell now adays even for aps farmers bring along a level 60+ barb for buffs. Some lower levels want to make extra coins too, they cant help open nirvy but they can help open TT.
I take die hard hearted level 60's along TT3-3 ofc course some Boss they have to sit out but mobs are mobs ..Stuns,Debuff,amps, buffs all welcomed. Trust me TT helps most players into knowing wth they suppose to do("most")...Its ALOT better then them FC noobs out there saying they got Demon HF just cause they a Demon BM b:angry Or Demon rez cause they a cleric with red fash b:shutup.

Nirvy run about a year ago with a cleric that never healed..squad asked"why u not tryna heal?" Response was .."that what charms for". And that coming from one of the best geared cleric u ever seen..wont say no names. Then had the nerve to tell the squad keep the boss from attacking her. Nuff said.

"If i could have thrown my keyboard thru her monitor......."b:angry

No, please, no...!

You claim that TT is a place to learn how to fight monsters and improve your squad ability? Is that a joke?

TT has become a place for greedy people to accumulate materials they don't even need, for the sake of making a quick buck.

Teaching newcomers on how to play has become obsolete.
Just see how many fools have chosen powerlevel because they were told by their friends that it's the way to 'enjoy the game together'. They mostly end as completely incompetent and ineffective individuals in squads, prone to be ditched at first glance. Deadweights in sum.
Anyway, people that used powerlevel, meaning players that relied on people that abuse game GLITCHES to gain levels fast, should not even need TT stuff in the end, or should not be able to get TT items by themselves (except via bucks to buy coins).

Now if you do dedicate yourself in helping newbies in playing the game as it was intended to be from the very start, I must say it's a rare treat nowadays.

WnbTank - Archosaur wrote: »

You are mistaking. The flood of market doesnt exactly affect what people want, it affects how much they need to pay for it. Having monopoly, you can basically ask what you want, while competition drives prices down. Cheaper prices actually create more demand due how people flock for cheap stuff/ quality/price ratio. TT isnt worth it because there isnt people who need it. The gear is outdated and imo the instances that drop em should too. If one want to farm outdated instance, let them, cheaper lower level gear simply encourages newer players.

Well, I forgot to state that this game market does not really follow rules of economics. Illogism is the norm here even, I think.

You are right, normally prices should go down and demand rise up.
That I still wonder about people that camp near the forges to sell their materials. How do they fare? Are their prices right?
With all the 2x going around and the regular daily farming, should not the mats be beyond cheap now or demand for them be extremely thin, given their sheer volume?

As for newer players, are they really there? If I were to be a newbie (for your information, I played for three years now, not to brag), I'd be scared at the current gold prices, meaning I'd not be able to buy boutique items from shop without spending money to get coins, or spend directly with zen.

Lesthar - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Well, I forgot to state that this game market does not really follow rules of economics. Illogism is the norm here even, I think.

You are right, normally prices should go down and demand rise up.
That I still wonder about people that camp near the forges to sell their materials. How do they fare? Are their prices right?
With all the 2x going around and the regular daily farming, should not the mats be beyond cheap now or demand for them be extremely thin, given their sheer volume?

As for newer players, are they really there? If I were to be a newbie (for your information, I played for three years now, not to brag), I'd be scared at the current gold prices, meaning I'd not be able to buy boutique items from shop without spending money to get coins, or spend directly with zen.

I should of added casual players into the statement. To casual palyer, who doesnt care bout endgame activity too much, somebody who works, 20 bucks a month is really nothing to be afraid of. With that he/she can get charms, some fashion and have coins enough for things they use (tokens/etc). Heck, with low TT prices, they can even gear themselves with that money. As long as small investments can keep gaming enjoyable for casual gamers, they stick to the game and thus things like cheap TT gear that is directly beneficial to them helps PWI.

And if there is new players, isnt the TT prices something that while not noticeable at first, something that still is nice? To certain extent you are correct, gold prices scare ppl off but nothing is perfect and cheap TT really is something newer players/casual players will find appealing. I know I didnt TT70 gear my barb, first real set he had was TT90 green, think 2nd barb with full set on all Archo. Why TT7o that appealing? It was really poor cost/quality upgrade to molds and while it cost 1m+ or even 2m+, gold was maybe hitting 400k mark.

Ps. You gotta remember PWI only interests itself with f2p players to keep game enjoyable to paying customers. Thus helping farmers to help PWI, I see nothing wrong in it.

Reshanta - Sanctuary wrote: »

Errr @ Kinjeto

That whole post to me, implies a forceful and totally unfun experience.

Questing does not teach you how to play your class. Being forced into the open environment to squad with others or be subject to being KS'd is not going to teach people to play their classes. If there is one major benefit to BH's, pre-high level helping, is that it teaches you the basis of team work and patience with others.

MY is also a totally different culture.

Sure take out FCC, take out hypers, and give the game killing blow of taking out BH's for the west, and then you can say the game is dead. People want squad activities that fun, not boring and discouraging, like kill 95 mobs for 95 drops, and after 1hr, 30 dropped, and the quest reward is 35,000xp, when you need 7mil to level. Note such quests aren't repeatable either. Personally, I don't mind grinding for exp, or questing, but I'm the minority in this thinking.

When some people are ABLE to do it, FULL FCC is fun. BH's give you a chance to meet new people.

you weren't a minority until the power leveling came along...before that nobody but the lazy players minded leveling the hard way...questing does indeed teach you how to play your class but what helped was at one time we all squaded to do those quests so in that manner we learned how to play our class...doing FB's helped us as well...but what really hurts this game now is the price of end game gear, insane prices...those of us that can't afford it might as wells look else wheres for a game because with out top gear we're not going to be included! And before any of you make stupid comments I see this every day in world chat....link this or link that if you want an invite. You have to practically beg to get a BH done anymore...guilds no longer work together to help each other...the game will be a round for a while yes but mostly the cash shoppers and their alts...the f2p will get disgusted once they reach high lvl and quit!

Lesthar - Heavens Tear wrote: »

To Empu: It's true it's a dynamic process... Just seeing how gold rate went from 50k to 1.5mil something in three years and a half is beyond my understanding.

This is actually really simple. Back in days gold was mostly used for fashion and mounts aka vanity items and thus there wasnt much more demand for it that charms. Then came chests of coins which put price of gold to 200k hard cap on bottom end. After that point it`s simply making gold to have more demand aka gear in packs and last step with rank sales.

This generated situation where big time cashshoppers dont have to sell their gold to get what they need so they simply end up buying their gear, not putting gold into economy. Only exception to that is when they get their shards as they need to buy them from other players/open absurd amount of packs. So we got highly inflated demand for gold and vastly lowered incentive to sell gold.

And actually, Archo been coming down on gold prices steadily. During 2x we dropped from 1.2m to 1m. And we are just settling to 1m/gold. With another poor sale, we might get to the place where gold is under 1m after fees. I have been wondering why the prices are as they are but I cant quite capture how gold is not selling that well.

Lesthar - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Items are indeed generic, so much that people would care only about availability, not so much volume or origin. But given the sales and over-farming, should not items naturally lose value over time?

Of course, it's not edutainment... If people were to learn economics, they'd rather play business simulation games.

I don't believe in intuition or luck. I just state that it's crazy hoping people will buy your wares one day, so you camp in archo for months or years at the exact same place with the same rates. Such despair of theirs is regrettable.

To WnbTank: I see what you mean in your first paragraph. However I notice a few contradictions. You say that TT is not worth it, but that its mats could be a nice way for humble people to get their equipment (hence its regular farming, correct?).
Besides, Sel_Darkmore was stating that TT is a nice bunch of instances to learn how to improve yourself (I say this in general).

I find TT 60 and TT 70 armors (probably many other pieces too) really poor in quality. If newcomers are advised by their friends to be competitive, TT equipment will not suffice.
I'm more on the casual side and I'd really prefer... In fact I already did choose cheap mold equips over TT ones.

You say 'You gotta remember PWI only interests itself with f2p players to keep game enjoyable to paying customers', but I hardly see any recognition towards those who don't directly spend money in game. I will tell you more once I can collect more arguments... Besides, I don't want to make it a 'tl;dr-worthy' post.

To certain extent every argument should have contradicting opinions. It shows you are least thinking of being wrong or accepting others have valid ideas too. And no, TT doesnt teach much, it`s usually more or less single mobs or two at a time, boss that doesnt do anything that needs countering `cept spells to be cancelled by barb. FC, I believe, has lot more reaching potential and as it`s xp instance, it really makes sense for it to be training instance.

The appeal for TT is how simple it is. With molds, there is a lot of things to consider but while TT70 do be bad tier of TT gear, it still is simple marker for your gear. Not to forget people like sets, I know I do and Im not ashamed to admit that.

@darkv0id: The type of players you describe arent big time cashshoppers. They might be minor but rarely the big ones. It`s the farmers with issue to run with ppl who arent on par with their gear.

I know I tend to take classes that have trouble finding squads for BHs, while I am only a minor cashshopper. Back in days of hellfire BH, I did pick wizzies over sins when WCing for DDs simply `cause I knew sins get theirs done anyways while wizzies have trouble. I believe vast majority of actually big time cashsshoppers think along the same lines as long as it isnt something like full delta, where honestly bad gear will risk a wipe. Simply `cause another try at full delta will be another 1h40mins as most squads wipe on W9 if they wipe at all.

To Empu: I love to be content with what I have in game... I don't beg for money or buffs, I generally do quests alone (except for cultivation and FBs, naturally).
As for the laboratory part, I do agree with you on the idea that a MMORPG is some microcosmos... a bit similar to our world, but also different enough so you forget you are in front of a screen. So much for some individuals that they cannot, after a while, live without it... b:surrender

Yes, I don't regret how I progressed in the game, as in doing careful approaches to character building and monster bashing, but also money spending and regaining...
You used the terms luck and intuition for that. I'd rather use the terms skill, tactics and strategy once you get the hold of it. Intuition is a bit too vague, too dodgy in my point of view, though I can see where you're aiming at.
Luck... Well, of course there are chances you die from monster respawn, or get a superb, rare drop from enemies, among others. That said, I tend to not use that term anymore, probably because of red spam... You know, packs and Tokens of LUCK. Guh.

Yeah, it was a matter of semantics after all, sorry if that was a bit confusing. Maybe we were talking about the same matter, in fact. b:laugh

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To WnBTank: Well, it's a brilliant explanation. I believe that gold rate was still low because the general total amount of coins in game was still low and there needed to be trades overall. I admit it was one of the major reasons on why I joined the game, to get nice, permanent items from boutique without spending too much.

Then packs began to mess things up in a rapid, progressive, irreversible way like you said.

As for today, there is way too much of coin amount. Coin sinks on the other hand are rather too few and rather ineffective (maybe faction bases and their various fees -including special items sold there- are an exception).

That said, the rather current motives to change gold rate are too frequent and unstable. It does not make me want to spend money on various items in catshops anymore, except if I can recover the spent amount. Seriously, outdated, ugly-colored fashion for a few millions and similar blasphemy? I hope these people rot in their catshops. b:sin

The higher-ups would care less about monitoring gold rate, as there are still big spenders. Newbies lose on that, as they are excluded from the current process (how would the community be refreshed if major cashshoppers ragequit all at once because of more bad decisions from management/utter boredom?)... This was my major grief on this case.

No, no, friend, it's not that I refuse opinions that are different from mine.
In fact, I really like to discuss about things in a serious way, as long as it's not a heated discussion turning into fisticuffs.
What I meant there is that you say that TT in itself is rather useless, but no so much since its mats can be useful to less picky gamers. And so it's not that useless, right?
As for sets, I now see why you like these for equipment.

That said, have you noticed how people have been picky about things recently, instead of giving chances to people that not always rely on endgame stuff and are more about skills and tactics (coincidentally expressing the same views as darkv0id)?
I think they fear risking too much on that... but the other extreme to this is the possibility of getting a greatly equipped person with little to no survival skills at all (a 'cashshopping noob' in sum), etc.

And thus, the sheer attempt to seek APS, +12, -int, r9, demon sparks and so on make me truly sad on how ostracism is present in this game... to put it bluntly, 'LF r9 demon sin with +12 daggers for nirv run, others GTFO' and such other magnificently expressive and concisely polite, much delightful entries of the same genre)*

FC as an instance has gotten quite a bad rap recently, so much that GMs decided to 'look' fiercer on the matter (I am not saying 'be fiercer' on purpose, as I have yet to see how rulebreakers will be dealt on from now on, if they will ever be -I guess just a small slap to the wrist will be the result-). I honestly never tried it and I am not really much looking forward to it... for now.

Etc., etc.


*Noticed the sarcasm put on full mode there? If you did not, please let me start to worry for you.

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Thanks to you two for your inputs and replies, it's always much appreciated.

To ahdi: What I ment there was really rhetorics, I know what happened and the reasons behind it.

Gold value increased because of some content like anniversary packs and new content in boutique... so much that at one point there was no chance for a return to old values.

It's basically about some greedy people seeing that stretching gold rate could be possible and fruitful and others having no choice but to follow, either because they felt they would have more for their money (especially when it comes to buy stuff, stockpile and hope to resell via catshop, more below) or do it at this rate because they feel scammed if they did not sell boutique items for a handful of millions.
In sum, everyone followed and seem happy with the successive inflation rates.

It's more about greed over profits than having an item sold for a tad less, then to begin anew. It also seems every shop does that now, except when they make digit mistakes (a zero can change all, you know?)

In sum the market is more than saturated especially when people buy items at a reduced price (sales), keep them inventory for an eternity and put a crazy big price tag in hoping they will catch 'the -stupid- fish', if you see what I mean. The wait can be really long, you know.

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To link it to the main topic (see what I did there?), I feel it's the same idea behind people who ask for others to help them open TT... They now have to have a certain level, certain buffs... just to open a stupid door.

And now people like the thread starter suggest it could be brilliant there would be no more hassle like the need to pay others to help open the door to TT instances.
(remember the usual tip was at 100k, it dropped to 50k, sometimes 75k to 100k if the person is really picky. It's not that much a problem in the name of courtesy, even if it's not negligible when you over-farm TT... Is it such a constraining necessary evil, even more because you can now multiclient to save one spot?)
All of this for a solo mode which would be in fact the squad mode with only one person or two to open the door, no entry fees (with the ultimate substances highly affordable, are you serious, bro?) and the same drops from bosses. This is quite weird, in my opinion.

Anyway, given it's a suggestion, I guess it will fall on deaf ears, like the rest of the other ideas proposed by the community, great, good, bad and awful alike.
And I guess I am done with this thread. Thanks for reading.