Which of the two has better tanking capabilty BM or Seeker?
darksynn
Posts: 26 Arc User
Hi forgive me if my question seems noobish I have absolutely no knowledge when it comes to melee classes and I don't want to be a barb.
I was wondering seeing that the BM has a Defensive Buff and Alter Marrow , while the Seeker has the Vortex and Altering Attack and Defense level skills which of them has more secondary tanking capability ?
I was wondering seeing that the BM has a Defensive Buff and Alter Marrow , while the Seeker has the Vortex and Altering Attack and Defense level skills which of them has more secondary tanking capability ?
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Most BMs these days are wannabe sins. Alter Marrows come with a sacrifice while Aura of the Golden Bell kicks buttocks. Seeker buffs aren't that significant. A typical seeker isn't going to sacrifice equips to get aps so they tend to be better at tanking (but not aggro unless it's AoE aggro). A sage wiz will pwn aggro from a Seeker but typically not tank as well.
I didn't think I'd like playing a barb at all until I raised one for buffs and decided to learn it for BH100s. It's an unexpectedly very fun class to play at end game (starting out sucked ballz), and I play 7 classes now.0 -
Wave Tanking:
BM's have an 10 meter aoe stun that stuns for 6 seconds. BM's will not get hit unless the Roar happens to fail on some mobs. Thus resulting is less repairs. BM's are faster because they have 2 speed skills. BM's have Heavens flame, which makes the squad damage higher. BM's have a longer anti-stun which makes mobs with magic attack that slow down movement a lot easier to kill.
Seekers are more balanced in defense because of Defense Levels and Vortex is a higher damage aoe.
I'm going to give it to Blademaster on this one.
Boss Tanking:
Hands down, Blademaster. A Seeker wouldn't even be able to grab aggro from a BM anyways since 90% of 100+ BMs are have 5.0 gear. There are even NV fists out there with berserk or revenge.0 -
Seeker got higher hp/defences.
If bm is 5 aps with sins BP buff then bm is 100 times better tank than seeker. Cuz:
1. Can keep aggoro.
2. Gets lot of hp recovery cuz of the BP. b:bye
3. Demon spark every 12 secounds means 20% hp recovery every 12 secounds and 3 secounds dmg iimmune. Wich can be times so he can both deah very high dmg, and avoid the boss special attacks or magic ones and survive
Seeker- better tank in PvP; BM- in PvE0 -
Depends on the kind of BM, my BM was tanking FC since 80...I remember once there was a squad whipe at Oceania other than my BM, using nabby calamity axes of blood with full buffs, I solo'd it because the hands were glitched on them and they all didn't have the brain to kill hands...
I'd say that overall it's about even depending on the kind of BM, since I'm an axe BM I've always been able to tank...It is said that apple pie is best served Al La Mode, so if you are the pie, consider me your ice cream.0 -
If you can afford r8 recast, go 5aps seeker. **** the haters, they can't do anything else but hate anyways.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0
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OontzOontz - Dreamweaver wrote: »If you can afford r8 recast, go 5aps seeker. **** the haters, they can't do anything else but hate anyways.
Because **** actually playing the class, 5 aps axe BM ftw http://pwcalc.com/1c018a63d62a4c53It is said that apple pie is best served Al La Mode, so if you are the pie, consider me your ice cream.0 -
My BM is level 87 can tank FF but my squads are all fail
even after only having my bm only for around 2 weeks since I made him these people don't know how to play their class. I had the same experience on my barb.
(Barb had fail people who died never died in FF on barb)
(BM died once on Runewolf but everyone else continue to squad wipe)
Love being tank build 0 -
Hmmm all very interesting thank you all for the replies so If I decide to choose a BM it should strictly be an Axe Bm or can I still tank with a Fist/Axe Bm?
Axe Bm - 6 Str 1 Dex 3 Vit ? (like a Barb?)0 -
Also I've been fiddling with a Barb today so I'm assuming it's something like this?
Barb (6str 1 Dex 3 vit ) = More HP
Bm (6 str 1 dex 3 vit ) = More damage0 -
Provided you put on the minimal dexterity and maximum strength, you should still be able to tank just fine with updated gear. Updated doesn't really mean pro, I'm talking like If you're 80 use TT80 gear.
And as for your barb vs BM there, that's exactly right.It is said that apple pie is best served Al La Mode, so if you are the pie, consider me your ice cream.0 -
Hmmm all very interesting thank you all for the replies so If I decide to choose a BM it should strictly be an Axe Bm or can I still tank with a Fist/Axe Bm?
Axe Bm - 6 Str 1 Dex 3 Vit ? (like a Barb?)
A pure axe bm cannot hold aggro from bosses.
Putting points in vit is not necessarily good. Like I said, a pure axe bm cannot keep aggro on a boss. If you put in vit, the damage from str decreases or the accuracy from your dex decreases. Either way, it's not going to tank bosses. Since aggro cannot be held with an axe bm, the boss will start attacking the highest DD in the squad which is most likely to be the sin. A sin who doesn't prep to tank with tidal and nerves becomes relatively squishy. Vit is fine if you wanna go do Phoenix Valley or something.
So things like Phoenix Valley and GV, pure axe is fine. But axe/fist is just more convenient in every way. Being a pure axe bm won't get you into nirvana, warsong, frost. Nor will it make you win Tiger events.0 -
I was kinda expecting Saku to chime in but...
Definition of a tank: The ability to take damage AND hold aggro.
BMs will outtank Seekers every time EXCEPT under weird circumstances. Why? Their damage output, especially vs single target, is greater.
Circumstances:
-AOE situations where the BM is pulling/handling crowd control and not doing a lot of damage.
-The Seeker has WAY better refines than the BM (and everyone else)
-Long, long AOE battles. BMs have better initial flash/spike/etc AOE damage, but over a longer time a similar geared Seeker will take aggro.
-The seeker zerks, zerk crits, or crits ALOT in a row and the rest of the group does not.
Unfortunately, if it was pick a BM or a Seeker for a tank, the BM would be taken every time except maybe in some RB groups.
-Situations such as FF the Seeker has zero ability to keep stuff off the rest of the party if they are putting in a decent effort - the BMs have quick AOE abilities plus stun to keep aggro and crowd control while the party finishes them off, whereas the Seeker its more of an over time style, or a hope for a quick kill.
-Not to mention with bosses, BMs have claws/fists which generate nice aggro in the situation.
Seekers have excellent damage mitigation with their defense level buffs, but as long as the puller has decent HP, and the rest of the party isn't terrible at the game - the defense levels do not matter, and it comes down to who can hold aggro.
Defense levels and marrows do not compare in PvE. Defense levels is a vs all, whereas Marrows are very situational in PvE, and not recommended for an all the time use. In FF there are only certain sections where the marrows are worth it due to the mix of types of attacks from mobs. Defense levels are useful for everything.
Honestly...group with a Seeker and a BM and utilize the strength of both classes and split up pulls to who does it better or wants to.
Clarifying stuff already posted:
-Seekers do not get more HP. BMs and Seekers get the same HP per level and vit.
-85+ get some GVs and be Axe/Fist. Refines on TT80 and beyond even to +3 will give you plenty of HP if you shard with HP gems. Vit prior to 80 or 85 is fine, but do yourself a favor and restat. It does make a WORLD of difference and is extremely fun. Axe/Vit builds will not hold aggro on bosses, or AOE groups well either. High STR makes a huge difference, along with crits.pwcalc.com/bb6fc16982637a5c / pwcalc.com/28948ee5778526f50 -
Maelael - Heavens Tear wrote: »I was kinda expecting Saku to chime in but...
I was avoiding this thread because of its vagueness. A better tank for pulls? Bosses? Holding aggro? Catapull? The new Seat and Aba bosses? Do we count being able to stun mobs for 6 seconds and blow them up before they ever touch us as tanking? Also, "better" is a matter of preference and opinion and lately my opinions have been getting me in trouble so I try to stick with numbers and facts when posting, lol.
Anyways, I'd say seekers can take more damage, but BMs can dish it out better kill quicker, avoid damage more with stuns.
The biggest issue is that alot of BMs don't effectively use their marrows, and even if you are good at it alot of times a phys mob will sneak in while you're magic marrowed. For instance in seat where the 5 magic mobs circle around, but there is 1 phys mob in there. I'd say our marrows allow us to exceed the reduction defense levels give seekers, but their defense levels apply to elemental and phys resistance at the same time, they get more hp per vit point, they can debuff mob attack levels in groups or solo, and they tend to stat more vit.
BMs on the other hand have our marrows, we tend to have high strength for phys defense, we have MSS for reducing mob attack levels but whoever still uses that more than once a month? What makes me say BMs are better tanks is we have great damage output, sprints, stuns and antistuns. Try pulling Aba on a seeker and you'll get stunned/frozen the entire time. Also, Seekers only have one sprint, Unfetter, so alot of times you have to walk through mobs during your pull and save Unfetter for the end to get distance so your vortex doesn't get knocked down.
Seekers have Battousai for aggro... it's about as effective as our Stream Strike, meaning worthless. The tank will be the person with the most dps, and a bm has a much better chance of doing that. Combine that with paint heals and the BM will be getting hundred to thousands more heals per second than a seeker.
I saw no reason to focus on dd for my seeker and statted 90+ vit on him by 100. Currently I'm removing that, because strength adds more defensively to physical defense than vitality does, and killing quicker is better than taking more damage. BMs tend to have higher strength, but seekers are more allowed to focus their gear around defensiveness rather than damage output.Seven 100+ characters leveled the hard way. Free to play. Mystic, Psychic, and Wizard left to level. b:victory0 -
Also I've been fiddling with a Barb today so I'm assuming it's something like this?
Barb (6str 1 Dex 3 vit ) = More HP
Bm (6 str 1 dex 3 vit ) = More damage
nope barb have more base damage then bm with same gear and we have titan wish is a physical buff instead of bm deff buff.
ooh and a barb start with higher base damage then a bm so ofcourse he would have a higher dph then a bm with same stats
no if ou wish to tank specific with axes pure str would ve recomended and yet maybe not
as far as GM do not kill the sparking or BP you wont steal agro from 5aps thats it
but aps suck in pvp while being pure str would be benefical
ofc if you can get ur str near 600 str
as opose to int player and no it will not steal agro but it will be more fun in pk b:laugh0 -
A pure axe bm cannot hold aggro from bosses.
Putting points in vit is not necessarily good. Like I said, a pure axe bm cannot keep aggro on a boss. If you put in vit, the damage from str decreases or the accuracy from your dex decreases. Either way, it's not going to tank bosses. Since aggro cannot be held with an axe bm, the boss will start attacking the highest DD in the squad which is most likely to be the sin. A sin who doesn't prep to tank with tidal and nerves becomes relatively squishy. Vit is fine if you wanna go do Phoenix Valley or something.
So things like Phoenix Valley and GV, pure axe is fine. But axe/fist is just more convenient in every way. Being a pure axe bm won't get you into nirvana, warsong, frost. Nor will it make you win Tiger events.
sorry but i wouldent care if he was only axe in bh ws or rb as long as he can do what he need to do with is help with hf
you should remember bm was initually a support class not tank nor a dd
only most random party would start asking for link weapon
anyways if you want to do bh100 make a barb easy to get into as one and non ask to link ur weapon0 -
between seeker and bm i would say seeker cos its still un tainted by the aps craze
some ppl depend on it but it also made many classes pretty useless and that can be said is wrong
yes the most op wont need a ep even without int pr bp or spark but we are talking about general and i for one am not gona taint myself with it even if i can easy aford it.
in fact i gave my +10 decide to my friend for free
i am prolly one of the few who await the time when something is done so soloing with
with int is no longer possible and ep can go back and we usefull again.
in fact no mmo should have such a mechanism
we hade veno and i did enjoy mine but i noted soloing make ppl selfish more then it helps and it dosent help a mmo comunity to have such a mechanism.0 -
_Ghoul_ - Lost City wrote: »sorry but i wouldent care if he was only axe in bh ws or rb as long as he can do what he need to do with is help with hf
you should remember bm was initually a support class not tank nor a dd
only most random party would start asking for link weapon
anyways if you want to do bh100 make a barb easy to get into as one and non ask to link ur weapon
1. Pure axe with demon dragons < Axe/fist/pole with demon dragons
2. uhhhh... the reason bms have multiple weapons is so they can be support, tank AND DD.
3. You said the word "most", so my point was still proven.
4. I can't understand what you are trying to say after "make a barb"0 -
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how about we do not like aps and let barb tank and seeker 2nd tank and bm does hf and we're all happy, and we erase aps if possible to balance game againI do not need much,
I do not have much,
I do not miss much,
I have love and friendship,
To compensate for that!
Dragoneast-rb1-soon to be 100 again- sanctuary
Back in pwi, always returning to my first real mmo
Started in genie patch0 -
Dragoneast - Sanctuary wrote: »how about we do not like aps and let barb tank and seeker 2nd tank and bm does hf and we're all happy, and we erase aps if possible to balance game again
would be awesome just to see the sheer amount of rage from certain area's sadly aps is likely to be with us for some time, and qq BM's got more than hf you know there is also GS for HF immune bosses ;p0 -
Not even gonna read all of that, since there is no need. Lemme break this down for you.
BMs are pro as ***
Seekers are *** as ***
Simple as that..
Seekers = useless
Bms = more B.A. class ever0 -
u sir..are a ****ing bad ***..never seen a 5 aps axe bm before..0
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