TW changes may be coming

Decus - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I know it's not the original topic, but I still don't get this "I'm in a small faction, I deserve lands also" mindset. That's like saying "I'm a new hire but I deserve to sit in a corner office." Really, it confuses me...

I agree with this ^.

I think one of the draws of TW (the way it used to be) was that it tended to be exclusive.
You had to work ur way up thru levels & cultis, get geared up & try to get in one of the
reigning guilds. That in itself was a challenge, a goal to work toward.

I think they should go back to no map reset. It was fun to see which guild would
eventually take over the map. And it was fun to be in a high-lvl guild that had a
shot at it. I believe it kept those high-power guilds motivated to keep
doing TWs--that hope of taking over the map.

The problem always tends to arise from the "haves" and "have-nots". The cs'ers, and
the non-cs'ers. The top guilds, face it, are gonna be full of op-geared players, those
who have been able to cs much of their gear. It would be difficult for a non-cs'er
to even get into those high-lvl guilds now; thus, no real hope of TW for them.

I hate to beat a dead horse, but when they made r9 basically a boutique item,
they screwed up so many facets of the game to an amazing extent.

VenusArmani - Dreamweaver wrote: »

It's more akin to "I'm a small business owner and should have a real chance to compete on the market and maybe one day I'll be a big corporation too. Please use the laws to break up any unfair business practices or monopolies. Chances are slim I'll have any success against the big corporations, but I at least deserve the chance."

Just how I see it.

That would be implying that the previous system was unfair. The fact that people gravitated toward the big factions wasn't unfair: it's human nature. That wasn't a fault of the system that factions like CQ owned the map.

_Skai_ - Raging Tide wrote: »

How I see it:

If your faction thinks it's good enough to go to war and have a good chance at winning a land, then a 10m minimum bid wouldn't be something impossible for that faction to muster up.

Agreed.

Decus - Dreamweaver wrote: »

That would be implying that the previous system was unfair. The fact that people gravitated toward the big factions wasn't unfair: it's human nature. That wasn't a fault of the system that factions like CQ owned the map.

It was a fault of the system. Which is why similar stories played out on every server for 4 years, time and time again. It made it so that smaller factions were completely unattractive for anyone remotely serious about TW because it inherently gave incentive for people to join up into one big faction. Why would you join a midsized faction that is just going to be wiped off the map by the big factions in few months and then wait a year for the reset? What sense does that make? In some cases that one big faction was the same basic core of people since server start. Which is likely why the same basic story played out on every server for many years. Now that one faction isn't going to own the whole map and only the most. You don't necessarily have to join one of the same two factions to get long TWs because neither of them can get a monopoly on the TW experience. The new system allows for more competition among a wider variety of factions just by it's very nature just as the old system by it's nature encouraged people to stick with the same people and factions they had for years.

I'm not saying the change was a good change. I'm honestly not sure if it was or not. One part of me doesn't think so because a lot of people are reporting that the quality of TW has changed. That it isn't as good or fun anymore even if it is more widespread. That PWI has traded quantity with quality. And ultimately you guys are the ones that would know that. I know people who are over the moon with the change and people who feel like the game has been ruined for them. SO I don't really have an opinion whether or not this was a GOOD change.

I just don't agree with the mindset that the midsized factions are leeches, or new hires, or undeserving of TW. They are I just think TW addressed their problems in a controversial manner that I'm not sure didn't cause more problems than it solved. Which is par the course for them. ::shrugs::

TempleSlave - Lost City wrote: »

It's called Territory WARS, not Territory Commerce.

b:bye

Chose a business anecdote to reply to Decus' business anecdote. And to be fair to both of our anecdote's there's a reason a lot of businessman are required to read Sun Tzu's Art of War....

When I started PWI, CQ was just starting their ascendency (I'm guessing actually,
because I didn't know anything about TW & guilds, etc., when I started, lol. But
the timing seems about right).

Anyway, I just played my own game, picking my way along, learning, lvl'ing up.
I joined a few different guilds (all low-lvl, non-TW-contender guilds), and had
a great time with them. We didn't feel the lack of TW access. TW was one of
the things we were working toward. We didn't bemoan the fact we could not
even consider doing TW--we were having too much fun just doing the stuff you
needed to level up.

After time & more knowledge of the game, I remember I would see a member of
CQ, and think wow, there's one of THOSE! Again, no feeling of losing or missing
out, just the thought that ONE day, maybe I could get to that place.

Then CQ won the map, and Essence began. By then, I was at a point where it
became a possibility . . . . To get into Ess became my goal, and I made it!

Getting into a high guild, to my mind, is one of the "goals" of the game. Just as
getting to lvl 100 so you can get into heaven/hell--whatever, it was something
you strove for that would open up new vistas to you; e.g., TW.

Of course, now everything has been skewed by the boutique items & frost/glitch
lvl'ing, so probably the above scenario no longer holds. But I still don't believe
most guilds consider doing TW as their raison d'etre.

But maybe I'm wrong--the whole mind-set of the game has changed so much,
this view of things is probably as archaic as needing to chain clerics on
Jewels.

Vancore - Sanctuary wrote: »

can we plz get back on topic of how this stuff is going over in the china server

Well it was released on June 27th on all the servers unchanged from the test server:
http://w2i.wanmei.com/news/bulletin/20120626/65803.shtml

Check out the pets you can win in that morai pk event though! http://w2i.wanmei.com/resources/jpg/120629/10021340935534724.jpg

I've always thought it was stupid how it becomes easier and easier to defend land when you get more than 3 factions attacking. Increasing the difficulty of defending against a large number of attackers allows a large alliance of midsized factions to be viable. Currently the system encourages everyone to cluster into 1 or 2 factions since otherwise they'd be forced to take turns attacking which lowers the strength of an alliance.

I don't really approve of raising the minimum bid to 10m though. That seems too high. The current 100k minimum bid is too low though. Something like 2m or 3m would have been enough to discourage fake bids.

ponyduck wrote: »

I think the TW battlefield should look like the actual territory in question. In other words,
if the battle is over Hidden Orchid, then the TW battlefield should BE Hidden Orchid.

Imagine the battle for Archo--running thru the streets, empty of all save the two guilds
who are fighting. It would really lend itself to some creative battle strategies.

I'd like it if players couldn't shoot THRU objects (and I'd like this not just for TW, but for
the whole game). Where you could jump behind a tree or a wall for protection.
("Cover me, guys, I'm going out!")

To make TW interesting again, they have to change more than just the externals of it,
the bidding, the payoff, etc. They need to change the way the TW looks and works.

I think it should happen in the territory, on the actual map. Not only will it be more awesome, but being able to watch a disliked faction get faceraped would be awesome for non-twers.

I remember when the first TW ever happened. I was in the area that was being attacked, I though there was gonna be mass PK so I ran to the nearest SZ XD

ponyduck wrote: »

Then CQ won the map, and Essence began. By then, I was at a point where it
became a possibility . . . . To get into Ess became my goal, and I made it!

Getting into a high guild, to my mind, is one of the "goals" of the game. Just as
getting to lvl 100 so you can get into heaven/hell--whatever, it was something
you strove for that would open up new vistas to you; e.g., TW.

Essence was amazing. We had a great group of people. We took the map and we had so many brutal 3 hour wars... Good times.

ApocaIypto - Dreamweaver wrote: »

but why would an attacker wait to start a war? thats just stupid.

again, my opinion

Maybe the same way attackers seem to carry around a castle with them b:chuckle.
Should do away with the attacker crystal/base

I Want That Bear Omg

pooo it was getting fun scrapping some gunk off the mapb:chuckle

Kattanyia - Archosaur wrote: »

I dont see how this 7 defenses is going to encourage better tw for smaller or large factions.

Scenario: Large faction with 150 to 200 strong, 100+ sign ups every week. They get attacked by next strongest faction on server that they have been having competetive TW's against each week as well as 6 other small factions. Result? Leader will no show the strong faction they have previously been having good TW's with and lose 1 land to them, then they will defend the other 6 small factions so as not to lose 6 lands...so now, small factions all get rolled (after just spending 10 mil min to bid??), large factions cease to have any competetive TW's.

How is that making TW any better?

Well said KATT!!! b:laughb:chuckleb:surrender

Kattanyia - Archosaur wrote: »

I dont see how this 7 defenses is going to encourage better tw for smaller or large factions.

Scenario: Large faction with 150 to 200 strong, 100+ sign ups every week. They get attacked by next strongest faction on server that they have been having competetive TW's against each week as well as 6 other small factions. Result? Leader will no show the strong faction they have previously been having good TW's with and lose 1 land to them, then they will defend the other 6 small factions so as not to lose 6 lands...so now, small factions all get rolled (after just spending 10 mil min to bid??), large factions cease to have any competetive TW's.

How is that making TW any better?

That's one possiblity,

Or they send a good defense squad to the real TW to hold out for 20-30 mins and small defense squads to the other 6 while their cata squad goes from the smaller one to smaller one facerolling them till everyone can join the main fight.

Kattanyia - Archosaur wrote: »

Mhmm...but either way the smaller factions are still getting rolled. I'm still not seeing any benefit to the 7 defenses b:lipcurl

More chances to fake bid????

What I think would be cool is if more than 1 war on the same land could happen.

Say at map reset Faction 1,2,3, and 4 all bid on Land 1

Faction 1 bid the highest so they go first Faction 4 the lowest they bid last.

Faction 1 fails to take the land from the mobs (hey it happens)

Faction 2 goes next in the next time slot (either next day or whenever) they take the land.

Faction 3 goes next and now fights faction 2 for control of the land. They lose. Faction 2 keeps it.

Faction 4 now goes and they fight Faction 2 for control and Faction 4 wins. Now TW for the week is over and Faction 4 controls the Land.

I know they probably won't do this because it would take a whole new bidding system not just a reworking like they are doing now. But I think it would be cool to see 1 land change hands 3 or 4 times in 1 week.

Zgod - Lost City wrote: »

oh shiit oh shiit ppl gonna wanna gank insurrect now double and triple defences losing in 20 mins isnt bad enough. cough cough

We had doulbe defense against the two strongest factions in LC. We were done in 18 minutes.