I have a dilemma!

If you find refines to be good at +5 , why dont you look at your shards that certainly can be improved.



Especially hat and Cape

PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver wrote: »

you should do +4 with mirages, +5 (+6) with stones :b

Depends on the cost of Tienkangs.

If you can get cheap Tienkangs, e.g. on-sale Tienkangs or via DQP, it's actually cheaper to use Tienkangs for +4-6.

Though personally I would use Mirages if you planned to stay at +4.

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

But my opinion on Pan Gu's tome or G13s daggers is go for the Pan Gu's. As you pointed out, you won't actually get a dps increase until you are +8. Right now +8-+10 orbs are 75+ mil and a d orb sale would only take them to 40m ish. Basically, if you go G13 you'll prolly max at +7 and won't see a dps increase and probably see a dps loss. All you'll get is better chi gain and lighter pockets.

Interesting way of looking at it. I got G13s and Pan Gu, Creator exactly for the chi gain. Then again, I am also Sage, so without those I'd be at 2.5. Then again I quickly noted that the difference between 4.0 and 3.33 isn't great enough and that convinced me to set a goal of upgrading to G15 nirvana.

I've never been a fan of G13s and would take an R8 sin over a "5 aps sin" any day. In fact, I tend to avoid 5 aps sins simply because I know most of them are 5 aps G13 and have poor dph and mediocre dps. My point is you'll be losing out on your dph from aoes and skills.

Valid point, especially with the new BH100 bosses. With those in, the only place in BH100 where a sin gets to use their DPS and actually be useful is Metal. Every other BH would benefit more from high DPH.

Though personally I dislike R8 for DPH. Mostly because it's inconsistent.

Lastly, G13s are no longer anywhere near endgame. If you plan to upgrade to G15, G16, Morai Sky daggers, or R9 then you'll want a pan gu since hoping for more than -.05 int on any of those will cost you a ton. Then you'll be back at either 3.33 or 4.0 without the tome, and you'll have wasted about 300m on G13s that really doesn't keep it's value towards your next daggers, while it would have paid for a tome that does show an aps and dps increase and keeps its value when you upgrade.

I would have to disagree. G15 and G16 Nirvana is way overkill unless you're thinking of PvP. Just because better gear options exist does not mean something isn't good. Especially since the cost difference between G13 and G16 Nirvana is ridiculous.

Though, I would still pick Pan Gu, Creator over G13 if I had to choose between the two. Pan Gu, Creator is resellable and it's a constant, whereas G13 binds and puts you into a messy upgrading position: If you want to upgrade to G15, you have to prepare lots of rerolls or significantly better refines before upgrading.

ImNotFiveAps - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Its almost as though....you didnt even read my post, just clicked the calc and ignored the rest. Please see above. I took the time to only quote the part of my post where I addressed I wont bother with tienkangs/tishas/ any other form of refining besides D orbs after +3. Im bad at refining, you can say its all random luck, PW hates my account, I will always fail with those I have never succeeded, ive lost more +6-7 refines using that shiit than I can count. I already said I will orb entire way no questions asked I said dont tell me to do it differently and that's EXACTLY what your illiterate self did.

Hey, just because you believe in magic mushrooms that turn people into pink cotton candy bunnies, don't go calling me "illiterate".

Me, I prefer to believe in math. After all, math doesn't believe in magic mushrooms that turn people into pink cotton candy bunnies nor does it go calling people "illiterate".

Oh and for the record yes, I do prefer to rather just look at what you have so far and ignore everything that you say other than your future goal. After all, everything else is bound to be silly superstition bull**** or useless unrelated **** that isn't really interesting.

Please learn to read before insulting my refines. At +5 and orbing (by the way, +6's are up to 16-19mil now), id end up spending 150mil+ getting all my gear to +6...when I can get 4 aps for 215mil

And then what? The aps that you'll get will be utterly useless in BH100, meaning you'll be stuck with... soloing FCC? Soloing FCC is **** money, btw. After all, if you had a decent circle of acquaintances with whom you could do constant Nirvana during 2x drops, you wouldn't be mentioning aps.

Oh and btw, you'll have to refine your gear sooner or later. Personally, I did mine sooner rather than later. It wouldn't be fun to have a great weapon only to find out that I now get aggro on bosses that I cannot tank and thus my great weapon is effectively wasted.

LOL ok sure. And the difference between 3.33 and 4 isnt big? Wtf are you smoking dude? Ive had 4 aps R8+8 before, trust me theres a difference. I solod FC 15 minutes faster with 4 aps than I do with 3.33. Takes me 40-45 minutes now, used to take me 25-30...

Funny how you're saying that your runs somehow speed up by 33-80% just from getting 14% more DPS.

G7 to G8 is only 10 more HP, so...60 more HP? Not worth the effort. And G9s arent worth the money. And dont say "get gems then"...

Um... 3rd socket to your wrists, plus changing 7 Flawlesses into Immaculates, that's a total of +120 HP.

ImNotFiveAps - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Where are you getting your numbers from? With extra chi I can stop wasting my genie on cloud eruption, I wont have to pause to cast Inner harmony, or RDS, It will be a true permaspark clearing my genie up for DD skills, and I can instead just auto attack instead of use skills to keep me perm sparked. Thats more than 14%...a lot more.

You must be doing something very wrong. I spent months being 3.33 and not once did I have to use a genie skill for chi. Heck, my genies have never even known any chi skills.

3rd socket on TT99 i believe is 20mil. So 25mil for 120hp?

Sounds pretty good to me, considering that +7 on Shadow Ashura Greaves gives 100 HP and costs like 20m if you planned to use a 7* Orb.

-.- May as well just citrine gem ALL THE GEARSSS!!!! **** 4 aps lets just +10 my gear and get gems in all sockets, AND 4 SOCKET IT TOO!! and be 3.33 aps and be an awesome tank, but not have the DD power to pull agro.

The build you linked in the OP has 102,908 dps. This is a BM with about similar costs. The BM has 84,288 DPS.

If the BM was +10 instead of +8, he'd have 97,474 DPS.

Last time I checked, the average BM did not have 5 aps with a +10 Deicide.

And did you just say FC is **** money, then bring up BH100?!? LMAOOOO Wow dude. Lol just wow -.-' Youre a joke.

I would love you to point out the part where I said anything about doing BH100 for money? I simply used BH100 as an example of an activity you're likely to do every day.

As for better alternatives in terms of farming, I would bring up TM69. Takes at worst 1/2 the time of soloing an FCC and even if you duo it you still walk away with the up to twice the money.

And anything other than orbs is a gamble, all youre saying is "you should gamble, it MIGHT be cheaper than orbs." Ok cool. Math says I might also lose money doing that, which I always do.

Math also says that a gamble that has an expected cost of <10% of the surefire way is a good gamble.

actually i did read your postb:cute
anything else we might have to take into consideration before giving advice? any special conditions, curses and blessings of your account? I mean, perhaps your account is blessed with +20 attack levels when you reach 4aps, who knows, right?b:cute

Phoenix_Eye - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Also 1 viable reason you use a Misty forest at lvl 101 ??? cause i heard even the common Band from Heaven's Jail adds way more in DPS .....

his account is cursed and he misses like a barb b:avoid

ImNotFiveAps - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Did you just tell me to spend 1 billion on 4 socketing my armor? You're joking right?...Come on. You're so retarrded its like not even funny.
And actually my cape has immacs. I didnt notice I put G7 in the calc. in game its G8. And what are you smoking? immac/perfect is the common end game sharding choice unless you cashshop gems/josds/dots lmfao! Wtf. I dont have 40mil to blow on each individual shard in my armor. Otherwise I wouldnt be worrying about getting 4 aps lmao. Wtf. Its amazing you idiots are telling me aps isnt everything, then tell me to spend 1 bil on shards/refines. Ok, yes and I'm the idiot. Alrighty then, I should have known going to the forums was a bad idea for advice. A bunch of dumbasses in here.

And btw I have a cleric/barb/BM for buffs. So **** shards/refines. 8.1k HP, 7.8k pdef, 5.5k mag def. I have no issue tanking clericless nirv or FC with those numbers. As long as I have 4 aps. Havent tried nirv with 3.33

Here's a realistic updated PWcalc, only 3 socketing the sleeves, not bothering with anything else, since it all takes 8000+ socket stones. http://pwcalc.com/3e8beec279f2c15b

As you can see, I gain about 500 HP. And lets see, it would cost me...110 mil. Hmm lets think about this. 110 mil for 500 HP, or 210 mil for 4 aps....hmm, I wonder...hmm... Lets think about this...hmm...So difficult.

How would +50% acc make me miss -.-'


Thats originally why I made this name, to be 5 aps and have a silly name. But then I realized R8 is better to me. I like the dph.

Umm...too much nonsense and flaming here to actually offer any decent input, but you shouldn't be so hostile to the FEW nice people around. Olbaze offered his help and his numbers. Yea don't question them the dude is known for his math around here and every other part of the forum.

I lol'd so hard when you were bragging about tanking clericless nirvy/fc. Anyone with a bit of skill and half decent gear can do that. its expected that you can solo fc; Nirvy is so damn easy to tank even with 2.5sparked.

@600 stones per 3rd socket on G12 that's about ~7m or so per piece and its cheap hp. Immacs/Perfects are NOT endgame. Anyone with them are in the process of upgrading to better via farming. OR they're just as naive as you are and think they're endgame, meet snake v2 and die like a bit@h.

Im too tired to do my 2nd SoT of the day/rest of the FCs I got activations left for so I`ll try to offer my input.

From what I felt in nirvy during last 2x, R8 hits simply too hard compared to barrier thorns that there is not much of a point going them as a demon. My R8 daggers are +10(orb sale during 2x, I admit, I fell for it) and I played aggro ping pong with G13 5aps if they were +7-8. The usual, trash 5aps with +5 daggers had no chance of holding aggro from me. I suspect that when I do get my pan gu and become truly permaspark at 4aps, I`ll beat the ones with +10 G13. I havent bothered with math but I suspect one of the main reason for my experiences is how 5aps tend to respark too soon.

And whole G13 sins tend to stick with those daggers, I`ll be recasting my R8 in future(Doing trials in 2 factions atm, 3 when I lvl my archer to 100). I didnt do the math but to me it would be just foolish to go G13 vana when you already have decently refined R8 daggers that offer so much more in, even if the dph is inconsistent. Well G13 daggers make sense if you intend on going better orns than the quite poor TT99 gold ones and so you`d gain more defenses compared to R8 4aps build.

And you should do the BHs when you can, though I admit it can be difficult to find a squad as a sin. I have no intention to buy socket stones anytime soon but as I do BH100 daily on 2 toons, I tend to get quite a bit of socket stones on weekly basis. The 3rd sockets you get fast and easy, though I never needed to check what nirvy pants need as wifey crafted em 4 sock. I`m now at ~1k socket stones I`ve gotten in 4 weeks of daily BHs. With doing BH, you`ll also get fairy box keys and it`s quite easy to solo some TTs to stack yourself for weeks worth of boxes, adding 360k value for BHs you decide to do.

Now we have reasonable plan to least 3rd socket all around, 4th might take bit too long to be realistic w/o buying some stones but on the other hand, what`s the hurry? So how to socket the gear then? The new luminance shards, all you need to know bout shards. They actually beat perfect citrines and cost 3.5m according to database. If we get enough for 4 sockets on all pieces, we`re talking bout 3.5m*4*6 = 84m for 1560 unbuffed hp. On archo, you wouldnt get a single JoSD for 84m. Sure farming influence takes time but that can be helped with alts.

Also, get rid of the dang misty ring. If you cant/dont want to afford lunar ring, get the 8x mold with 2% crit. If my memory serves me correctly, it only really loses in defenses compared to lunar ring as 50% accuracy only really helps in PvP against sins/archers (&BMs?).

If you only care bout farming nirvana then yes, you are on a correct path, though bit higher refines on armors/orns should be suggested. But if you want to get BH metal done easily and ppl actually finding your sin well built, you do need better shards & armors. 8kish hp barb buffed is enough to tank snake but it sure makes runs interesting.

Edit: As long as sin isnt main, I see no problem with perfect shards as endgame, difference in cost to better options is quite major.