+5 Tienkang/Tisha Refining

Yes

Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »

And indeed, general rule of thumb would be that, averaged out for 5+ pieces of gear, refining +4-6 is cheapest with Tienkangs and +7-8 with Tishas.

Fixed it for you.

If you don't tisha most of your gear to the same level of refinement, you'll more likely to spend just as much, if not more. Your real savings is when you get lucky and get one or two pieces to +5 or +6 really easily. Then there's always that one or two pieces that would have been far cheaper to orb.

10 times is nothing. I failed +2 20 times in a row on my sin's L56 legendary daggers (21st attempt worked).

I'm pretty sure the refine probabilities have been nerfed, or lower level equipment is on a different (harder to refine) table. The "accepted" probabilities are 30% to get +2 or +3 using just mirages. That would put the odds of me failing +2 20 times in a row at 0.08%. That makes it highly unlikely that 30% is the correct rate. A 20% success rate makes 20 sequential failures a 1.2% probability. And a 15% success rate makes 20 sequential failures a 3.9% probability. So both of those are far more likely to be correct than 30%.

Also, the success rate I've been seeing at +3 has been 1 success per 5-8 attempts, not 1 per 3 attempts (30%). So there too, 15%-20% is more likely to be the correct probability.

MiniST - Sanctuary wrote: »

it's not nerfed. It's just the the PWI probability generator isn't random. If you figure it out, you can work it to your advantage.

True. I had 29 straight fails trying to get something to +3 one day.
I was stubborn. I could tell the game was glitching a little whenever I'd hit it at +2 I got a small lag. I was going to stop at 30 but it finally took. Other days I got straight to +4 right away.

My style is to go to +4 mir only then use the best aid for +5, orbs after that. Sometimes on weapons I use an aid from +3 - +4 too. Depends if I feel lucky. b:cute

_Ultima_ - Lothranis wrote: »

i ve heard somewhere each officer of a land has increased chances to successfully refine a particular type of gear.. can anyone confirm this?

Only if want to believe Duke Blackie. b:shutup

MagicEmpress - Lost City wrote: »

On Lost, nobody does a better job than the elder at 1K going to +5.

agree b:pleased, i got most of my gear refined successfully at 1k elder w/o orb. also +8 my wep there b:victory too scared to try more b:surrender

I lost all refines on nv legs +5 once then +6 on them with like 20 mirages. My 1st +6 and everytime I refine is at Etherblade's Elder b:bye

All these anecdotes and no solid data. b:shutup

refined 6 pcs of gear from +5/6 to +7 with about 20 mirages b:thanks

been writing down some data for some time while refining and found interesting coincidences...maybe there is some sort of relationship between refined slot and ingame time...or I was very lucky when I used that theory... like 300 mirages of waste compared to 30-40 when doing things according to that theory...

b:victory

truth or myth?

...just wanted to say that combination of exact slot at exact ingame time (different from server/RL time) might add ya some percentage for refinement...when refinement aid is implemented, why there cant be something extra hidden...when ya put inuf effort you get the reward...

just my experience from many refinement sessions...as I said, I might had been lucky...
got from 0 to +6 for one slot with like 15 mirages, when changed to another slot, I wasnt able to pass to +4 with 100 mirages, when swithcing back to previous slot I managed +6 again with 15-20 mirages...might be coincidence, might be luck, but might be smth else as well...but that happened couple of times.

not saying it must be like that, but why not? I havent seen source codes/scripts for that, have you?...it might be just pure random number generator adding some number to constant defined with refinement level...


but things like that are implemented in various MMORPG around...not presented open wide for public...just trying might get you clue if thing like that is implemented in PWI too...
imma not that rich that I can do deeper research within this area...

Lupko - Heavens Tear wrote: »

...just wanted to say that combination of exact slot at exact ingame time (different from server/RL time) might add ya some percentage for refinement...when refinement aid is implemented, why there cant be something extra hidden...when ya put inuf effort you get the reward...

just my experience from many refinement sessions...as I said, I might had been lucky...
got from 0 to +6 for one slot with like 15 mirages, when changed to another slot, I wasnt able to pass to +4 with 100 mirages, when swithcing back to previous slot I managed +6 again with 15-20 mirages...might be coincidence, might be luck, but might be smth else as well...but that happened couple of times.

not saying it must be like that, but why not? I havent seen source codes/scripts for that, have you?...it might be just pure random number generator adding some number to constant defined with refinement level...


but things like that are implemented in various MMORPG around...not presented open wide for public...just trying might get you clue if thing like that is implemented in PWI too...
imma not that rich that I can do deeper research within this area...

This. Or I have very good luck like 20mirages to +5/+6 or 200 and cant get past +4 b:shutup

_DarkSeph_ - Sanctuary wrote: »

Most things you hear about refining are myths, but this one is very likely true. PWI's "random" generator seems to like to stick at certain results, giving you things like strings of fails, or failing multiple times at a certain refine (like 10 times in a row at +2 or +3).

Best thing is, if you fail too many times in a row, cancel the refine window, log off, log in, try again and count 3 seconds between each refine. If you start succeeding a lot, spam your refines. Not sure how much of that makes the difference, but I've always had very consistent results with it. Either way, it can't hurt.

The random generator is definitely not "random". You can test this easy and get a 20/20 LP genie almost every time doing the following;

1) Infuse genie to level 9.
2) unequip genie
3) equip genie and quickly open the infuse screen.
4) Just as the genie's energy ticks to 10, level it. (You will need to account for lag if you have a high ping)

You will almost always get 10/10 lucky points for both level 10 and level 20 doing that. Doesn't work for levels after though, at least not in my experience. Whilst it's not overly useful, its a good start on a decent genie and does show that their random numbers are not necessarily all that random.

So much stupidity in a single thread... seems award-worthy b:surrender

Denaini - Sanctuary wrote: »

So much stupidity in a single thread... seems award-worthy b:surrender

If you're talking about the random generator theories, you have to remember you're dealing with "random" results generated artificially by computer (and probably badly knowing it's PWI).

While I admit a good amount of myths might be untrue, assuming it's absolutely perfect and completely random at all times is stupidity.

Kalish - Lost City wrote: »

Did you guys actually try the genie thing? Call it a conspiracy theory all you want, but it works EVERY SINGLE TIME I do it, provided I get the timing correct. I am not talking about 2 in a row once 5 months ago, I am talking about every time I decide to make a genie, or my friends make genies, or my faction make genies. We all start with a 20/20 LP genie and then take our chances from there.

If you still don't think it's possible, look at how computers generate random numbers. They need a seed to create one because computers CANNOT make true random numbers. Generally, the current time and date is used as the seed to make it as close to random as possible (however, still predictable if you can reverse the formula). In that case, does it seem so very odd that some sort of formula is used with the energy level as the seed? Or perhaps the % of how full it's energy is? <- These are theories, but the fact remains I can get a genie to 20/20 every time.

b:laugh i tried the genie trick out and it works, thank for sharing b:victory

I remember myself refining for the first time an unicorn bow a few years ago and i got it to +7 somehow and i got greedy and failed.
After that session i was very interested in refining without refining orbs.
On chinese servers forums those refining threads are very popular, i was always wondering why there are no refining tips threads on pwi forum.
I think a lot of refining freaks do their refining sessions with some systematical gambling and maybe some are dumping tisha/tienkang from DQ rewards.
I am using some weird system lately, most of the times i have a main item and some other lame ones to refine, will get main item to +8 and like 4-5 items to +5, average mirages 2k ish i think, tienkang/tisha 10-20. And the lame items i will sell b:chuckle